How snobbish are Indonesians? Options

[tangawizi]

I don't know if Indonesians are snobbish, but I know Singaporeans are tremendously snobbish but in a materialistic way, rather than cultural way. I suspect Indos are cultural snobs rather than material snobs.

What's your take?? Met any real Indo snobs??

[XxRyoChanxX]

Come to LA .... there's bunch of them >_<

[Ralf]

Well I won't mention the name of my old boss at Kara Kelapa (ANDRE!!) and how he was too high class to slum it at our Indonesian Film Festival and I can't really believe he was in church during every single screening.....
Hey don't be so serious, just joking, come to the Indonesian Silver Screen opening night at Hoyts Melbourne Central this Saturday.

[XxRyoChanxX]

Well I won't mention the name of my old boss at Kara Kelapa (ANDRE!!) and how he was too high class to slum it at our Indonesian Film Festival and I can't really believe he was in church during every single screening.....
Hey don't be so serious, just joking, come to the Indonesian Silver Screen opening night at Hoyts Melbourne Central this Saturday.

LOL... he goes to church? ohh geez!

[Ralf]

LOL... he goes to church? ohh geez!

Andre Untung is part of the Melbourne Indonesian Christian community and regularly goes to church...... I just wish he would regularly go to our screenings at the Capitol Theatre and support Indonesian Cinema.

[Majapahitans]

I don't know if Indonesians are snobbish, but I know Singaporeans are tremendously snobbish but in a materialistic way, rather than cultural way. I suspect Indos are cultural snobs rather than material snobs.

What's your take?? Met any real Indo snobs??

Hmm.. dunno... most of Indonesian snob I've perceived is in materialistic way. The same as over there I think...
They like to brag or bul$hitting, try soo hard to impress people and love being admired by showing off about what expensive stuf they've bought, their car, where they go for vacation, this and that etc.

Cultural snob...? Is this that French thing...?
Or the Chinese ultranationalist cultural snob like some here in AF that believe everythings in Asia came from China...?

But wait... If you ask about cultural issue, I think some of Javanese "ningrat" or nobilities (especially those whom are rich) sometimes have this snobbish attitude like saying "I'm better than thou O' commoner Indonesians" in the matter of culture, manner, and refinement. They smile and hide it in polite manner, but sometimes secretly sneer at commoner's "coarse" attitudes. Also Javanese infatuation and obsession of status and refinement, sometimes irritate rest of Javanese villagers and marginal Javanese, Sundanese or Madurese in cultural way, because they like to comment: "Hey.., that language is 'rude'..." and so on. Their obsession for the concept of "halus" (refined) vs "kasar" (coarse/rude) is accute and sometimes ridiculous.
Hey... they must not always use their "pedestal" standard in this inter-cultural relations.


I suspect your question about this soo called "Indonesian cultural snob" is based on recent Indonesian-Malaysian rift and disputes about cultural issues (here we go again)...
I think Indonesian is humbled and never be a cultural snob in our relations towards older well-developed civilizations such as Indian culture, Chinese culture, even Japanese and Korean. Not to mention far older civilizations such as Egypt, Islamic civilization, and classical European Greece and Hellenistic culture, and European western civilization as a whole.
But yes.., in regional scope, there is a brewing sense (pumped by our national-pride and national identity building) that we have the oldest and the most refined culture of archipelagic Southeast Asia (with exceptions of ancient Cambodia, and to some degree; Thailand and Burma, that we consider as our equal in cultural way). While other younger or smaller states such as Malaysia, Singapore, and Brunei, to some degree Vietnam, and even Phillippines might be consider as.., no offense... "below" us in cultural matter... That doesn't means all Indonesian felt this way..., some Indonesian don't even care at all... but that is the perception I have. Malaysia and Singapore might be doing better and above us in economic and development issues, but somehow perceived as below us in cultural matter.

Other might criticize this "overgrown" cultural sentiments as some kind of escapism to avoid dealing with our own economic failure to provide jobs and welfare for Indonesian. Or might viewed this as an effort to "save" our dignity and pride being defeated in economic progress by our neighbours by rallying our cultural prowess. I'm really afraid if Indonesia decreasing into this inferiority complex behavior by b!tching around about cultural issue rather than work to build our nation.

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Oct 4 2009, 01:28 PM

[tangawizi]

hey majjy, u shd become a teacher or professor of indo culture!! or even better, be the cultural attache for the indo embassies!!!!!!!

i met someone who actually gv me the impression that he's got noble lineage n despite our country (singapore) wealth n progress, we are still kasar in manners, attire and dance of refinement... hehehe...

he was a nice guy ultimately, but i came away feeling that he had a hidden snobbisme which was kinda not offensive, but rather culturally refined and self assured.. abit like those old men in China still wearing Mao suits... you know what i mean? the cultured educated types who know and understand their class and roles in their society, and would never seek to imitate another culture

[miubabyxx]

I agree with Majapahitans 120%!

Indonesians are mostly high on branded items, social status etc etc.. I know a few people who would not reveal to their friends and family at home that they work in the service industry abroad for extra money... their excuse was of course PRIDE.. or 'apa kata orang..?!'.

[JoeRagan]

^Lol its not exclusively to Indo peeps
Snob is what snob does

[Majapahitans]

hey majjy, u shd become a teacher or professor of indo culture!! or even better, be the cultural attache for the indo embassies!!!!!!!

Aha ha ha... I'm really flaterred... Thank you...

i met someone who actually gv me the impression that he's got noble lineage n despite our country (singapore) wealth n progress, we are still kasar in manners, attire and dance of refinement... hehehe...

Typical Javanese ningrat (nobles)..., softly braggin about their linneage and at the same time criticize other's unrefined "coarse-ness"... Don't worry most of them are harmless, but sometimes they're quite annoying...

he was a nice guy ultimately, but i came away feeling that he had a hidden snobbisme which was kinda not offensive, but rather culturally refined and self assured.. abit like those old men in China still wearing Mao suits... you know what i mean? the cultured educated types who know and understand their class and roles in their society, and would never seek to imitate another culture

Yeah I know..., cultured-educated people tends to be somewhat arrogant in such subtle way... I admire those people who knows their roots and took pride in it (with minus arrogance and belittling others). Like those Japanese whom still proud of their noble samurai lineage, and took pride in their traditions, costumes, and ceremony.

I agree with Majapahitans 120%!

Indonesians are mostly high on branded items, social status etc etc.. I know a few people who would not reveal to their friends and family at home that they work in the service industry abroad for extra money... their excuse was of course PRIDE.. or 'apa kata orang..?!'.

Apa kata dunia...? (Nagabonar's quotes)

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Oct 4 2009, 01:10 PM

[tangawizi]

Are u a ningrat, Majjy?? Anybody here a Ningrat???

It's a cute word!!

[Majapahitans]

Are u a ningrat, Majjy?? Anybody here a Ningrat???

Erh.., since you asking.., I don't wanna sounds braggin but yes...
My late grandfather from my father's side is came from a noble family of East Priangan region (Kuningan and Ciamis).
My late great-grandmother from my mother's side has to go out from Yogyakarta Kraton because her husband, my great grandfather (a lesser prince, sultan's sons from concubine) had passed away. Although she had been stay out of palace among commoners in the village, my mother said she never gave up her "ningrat" attittudes plus her elegant arrogance...
My family is not rich, now just living normally as any common Indonesian family, but yes we keep our grandfather's "trah" (linneage) name as our family name.

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Oct 7 2009, 12:28 PM

[elleX0]

tangawizi: It is natural for Muslims to be snobbish (meaning they are better than others) because according to Islamic teachings, all non-Muslims are kafir. QED

[taolander]

Majapahitans, do you know how many aristocrats are still around ? Is there any online resource, like a peerage list or something ?

[Majapahitans]

tangawizi: It is natural for Muslims to be snobbish (meaning they are better than others) because according to Islamic teachings, all non-Muslims are kafir. QED

Eh...?
I've read and learn muslim is taught to be humble... I think each religions promote themself as better than others... (that's the way they proselytize and sell their ideas)
In my case I'm not feeling snobbish towards other faiths... who are we ..., mere mortals, to judge others sprituality and faith..?!

Majapahitans, do you know how many aristocrats are still around ? Is there any online resource, like a peerage list or something ?

Dunno..., quite a numbers perhaps. No online resource available, but usually you can sense aristocracy in their family name.
Aristocracy not only belongs to Javanese people..., Balinese, Sundanese, Madurese, Malay, Minangkabau, Batak, Aceh, Makassar, Bugis, each has their own aristocratic traditions.

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Oct 7 2009, 01:45 PM

[elleX0]

Majapahitans:I've read and learn muslim is taught to be humble... I think each religions promote themself as better than others... (that's the way they proselytize and sell their ideas)
In my case I'm not feeling snobbish towards other faiths... who are we ..., mere mortals, to judge others sprituality and faith..?!

elle: But the Koran tells Muslims this:

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Allah has judged. He says, "Allah must have no rivals"
"Fight the infidels until there is no more Fitnah."

So Allah will not tolerate other gods, but Allah. I do not see that Allah has any tolerance. It is not humility, it is a matter of submission to the one and only Allah.

[Ralf]

I think the case of Indonesian snobishness has more to do with perceived cultural status and materialistic cliques, than religious superiority.

[tangawizi]

elle: But the Koran tells Muslims this:

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Allah has judged. He says, "Allah must have no rivals"
"Fight the infidels until there is no more Fitnah."

So Allah will not tolerate other gods, but Allah. I do not see that Allah has any tolerance. It is not humility, it is a matter of submission to the one and only Allah.

I don't see any snobbishness from the above quotations.. what are u trying to do here Miss??? Stir up some anti-muslim sentiments unnecessarily??? Whassup with you???

[tangawizi]

Erh.., since you asking.., I don't wanna sounds braggin but yes...
My late grandfather from my father's side is came from a noble family of East Priangan region (Kuningan and Ciamis).
My late great-grandmother from my mother's side has to go out from Yogyakarta Kraton because her husband, my great grandfather (a lesser prince, sultan's sons from concubine) had passed away. Although she had been stay out of palace among commoners in the village, my mother said she never gave up her "ningrat" attittudes plus her elegant arrogance...
My family is not rich, now just living normally as any common Indonesian family, but yes we keep our grandfather's "trah" (linneage) name as our family name.

hahaha... somehow i knew u must be some kinda NingRat, too!! Mjjy!!!

i have a galfren from Solo who shared the same history as you, her grandmother was asked to leave the palace when her husband died, as a concubine, it seems u have no right to live in the palace after the prince dies... sad...

[elleX0]

m/s tan, please visit my profile. I am not a miss, and I am not prying to pass myself off as one. Are you an ostrich by any chance?

This post has been edited by elleX0: Oct 8 2009, 02:55 AM