New Theory on Angkor, Who were the last Varman kings? Options

[Leeporter]

What I've shown you so far:

- The oldest evidence of Khmer language and culture derrived in Southern-Cambodia.
- The language and culture expanded northward.
- The Mon style of pre-Dvaravati doesn't hold any relation to Khmer style.
- There was a vast populated area around Tonlé Sap with people with knowledge of agriculture (200BC).
- Sailendra and Java had a relationship and a common source in Indonesia.
- The Chams came to Southern-Cambodia to intermix with the indeginous population.
- The Chams and the Khmers had a influence from Javanese architecture.
- Khmers got Sanskrit from the Cham (or at least the same source).
- The Khmers and Chams were on the same time freed from a foreign enemy (Jayavarman II calling out his own country, the Chams making an inscription that they regained control)
- Chaiya in the inscription would have called "Jaya", instead of "Java".
- The new architecture suddenly shows an increased influence from Java/Champa, while reports of pirates have been described by the inscriptions.
- Jayavarman II began in South-Cambodia, according to the inscription: "returned to the land of his ancestors" and began his career again in southern Cambodia.
- Chvea is much more likely to be Chvea (Champa) then Java or Lavo, according to the new influences the Khmers received.
- Chinese Li are not reliable, but the ratio of the distances cohere with a place in Southern- Cambodia.
- Chinese use their own words that predate Thai language, and are not coherent with the literally foreign word.
- The language of Khmers is biquinary, as it was in Angkor.
- Chenla and Funan were the same.

You know what, you only proved that Khmers were slaves in Chenla.

That's all you did. And I guess everyone already known it.

I think you are misunderstanding, we are talking about the rulers of Funan and Chenla, not slaves.

[khmerking]

I like leeporter, he actuals know whats hes talkin about.

[khmerpride]

LOL You already know that Thai members here never insult Khmers,

Thai Member in AF never insult Khmer People ???
But Khmer People only insult Thais ?

Funny I was long enough in AF to say who insults who and I can promise you that many Thai People already insult us without any reason.
After reading your comments I know that you look down on Khmer People , you think that the "Thai" Race is above Khmer Race
Like Hitler and the Nazis think that their Aryan Race is better then any other Race. Stop telling me or other some lies
that you never look down on us or something.

[Leeporter]

Thai Member in AF never insult Khmer People ???
But Khmer People only insult Thais ?

Funny I was long enough in AF to say who insults who and I can promise you that many Thai People already insult us without any reason.
After reading your comments I know that you look down on Khmer People , you think that the "Thai" Race is above Khmer Race
Like Hitler and the Nazis think that their Aryan Race is better then any other Race. Stop telling me or other some lies
that you never look down on us or something.

Believe me, no Thai people wanted to talk to you if your people didn't shamelessly claimed that Thailand stole everything from Cambodia.

To say that Cambodia started everything on its own and never took anything from Thailand is one thing, we can live with that.

But to say that Thailand stole everything from Cambodia is different, it is too much, and that's an insulting to all Thai people because we know that it's not true.

That's why we have to find out what the real history look like.

And now when we found many evidences showing that the rulers of Funan and Chenla were not Khmer, you treated it as an insult.

I can't help you on that.

My duty is to investigate possibilities and reveal the real history, if it hurt your feeling, I can't help much.

[LoveIsAllAround]

I don't give a $hit who you side with. No one asked you to side with anyone so that you can throw more insults just to satisfy your needs. I see Khmer, Thai and Lao go at it with each other all the time here on AF and that's why I hardly come here much anymore.

actually no Thais officially sided with you Khmers, becos we know you khmer can handle those Laotards. But when we read your Khmer-Lao fight, we just sided with you Khmer. LOL

This place is a $hithole. And you're still clueless as to why you and I bumped heads. Well go back to that one thread where you crossed the line by hijacking someone's thread just so that you can personally attack another member. That's right, you deserve a taste of your own medicine, but I did it without being a racist $hit like you. All the $hit you've said only shows your true hatred for Khmer and Lao. Not all Thai members will try to counter the way you do, and just be glad that not all Thais are like you. If you want to make this personal then go open another thread or send a PM... my 9 inch kdaw is waiting for you, sweetie.

Wrong, You idiot insulted me first in Thai chat with you dirty stinky mouth. I am lazy now to dig that stinky comment of yours. You insulted me even I never talk to you. I thought you were good Khmer member like Mushroom. But I was shocked when you revealed your true color. Idiot Khmerboi is the real problem, Thai members here only counter back his racist against Thai. When we got bored, this idiot Khmer still come back to Thai chat created so fuking lame treads there. LOL This boy need strong medicine from Thais. So all insults direct to him only. It just cant' helped if some good Khmers read those insults. Good Thai members when read Khmerboi's insults, they just stay cool. But good Khmer members like you can't stand it. LOL If you really hate me, you can filter/block me out, you dumbass. Nobody force you to read my comments.

This post has been edited by LoveIsAllAround: Feb 12 2012, 09:06 AM

[LoveIsAllAround]

Thai Member in AF never insult Khmer People ???
But Khmer People only insult Thais ?

Funny I was long enough in AF to say who insults who and I can promise you that many Thai People already insult us without any reason.
After reading your comments I know that you look down on Khmer People , you think that the "Thai" Race is above Khmer Race
Like Hitler and the Nazis think that their Aryan Race is better then any other Race. Stop telling me or other some lies
that you never look down on us or something.

Long enuff?? So tell me about Nagaprincess.

[LoveIsAllAround]

Believe me, no Thai people wanted to talk to you if your people didn't shamelessly claimed that Thailand stole everything from Cambodia.

To say that Cambodia started everything on its own and never took anything from Thailand is one thing, we can live with that.

But to say that Thailand stole everything from Cambodia is different, it is too much, and that's an insulting to all Thai people because we know that it's not true.

That's why we have to find out what the real history look like.

And now when we found many evidences showing that the rulers of Funan and Chenla were not Khmer, you treated it as an insult.

I can't help you on that.

My duty is to investigate possibilities and reveal the real history, if it hurt your feeling, I can't help much.

This thread name is "New Theory on Angkor". We Thais, have been providing more and more evidence on Thai side, which these Khmers can't find nowhere from English sources. But I don't why they are so furious when we say Siamese king claim their ancestors built Angkor. LOL I think they are really closed mind when talking about their "Khmer Empire". This imaginary empire, nobody can touch it. LOL I think this is real burden that block them to receive some new evidence. History is not maths. It's not 1+1=2. Everybody knows. We can't trust on today's history. History keep change due to new found evidence. History needs changes to make it close to the TRUTH.

[LoveIsAllAround]

Carved panel at Wat Mahathat in Luang Prabang, Laos. It depicts the legend of King Thao Sithoanh and the Nang Manola, and the kinnari. This Laotian legend is of Khmer origin and is very popular.

^
^
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_people

Is this, Pra Suthon Manora, really Khmer origin?

[SEAhistory]

Believe me, no Thai people wanted to talk to you if your people didn't shamelessly claimed that Thailand stole everything from Cambodia.

To say that Cambodia started everything on its own and never took anything from Thailand is one thing, we can live with that.

But to say that Thailand stole everything from Cambodia is different, it is too much, and that's an insulting to all Thai people because we know that it's not true.

That's why we have to find out what the real history look like.

And now when we found many evidences showing that the rulers of Funan and Chenla were not Khmer, you treated it as an insult.

I can't help you on that.

My duty is to investigate possibilities and reveal the real history, if it hurt your feeling, I can't help much.

I never claimed Thai people stole everything. I already said that there was an exchange of culture, through war AND other ways the people were connected. But I do hate the fact that they try (and tried) to twist the history and say Khom were not Khmer, since evrything points to an indeginous population in South-Cambodia that developed their own culture and became the most dominant kingdom.

None of the indeginous people of Siam were involved in the beginning of Angkorean culture, and were only connected after 550 AD, when Isanavarman expanded his fathers territory in Mon territory.

[SabaiSabai]

What I've shown you so far:

- The oldest evidence of Khmer language and culture derrived in Southern-Cambodia.

The oldest inscription is found in Chenla territory. The largest cluster of the script is found in Chenla territory. You seem to be using the modern maps and borders to see what is inside Cambodia or not lol ridiculous. And if you haven't figured it out Chenla territory eventually covered the entire of Cambodia. But what you choose to ignore is that inscriptions about bhavavarman and his lineage are found in basak Laos and another one in Thailand. Chenla did not expand northwards. How you came to that conclusion is beyond me.

- The language and culture expanded northward.

The language and culture expanded southward with the expansion of Chenla. Without the influence of Chenla the culture would have remained as Funanese or very Indian. If Funan were Malay like you say then it would be a Malay based language. Very contrastive to actual evidence.

- The Mon style of pre-Dvaravati doesn't hold any relation to Khmer style.

How about the styles of art found at Sri thep and Sima? You haven't even bothered to study these have you.

- There was a vast populated area around Tonlé Sap with people with knowledge of agriculture (200BC).

The Dong Son culture was present during the prehistoric period. Are you claiming they are Khmer? Or perhaps the people of Ban Chiang are these Khmer? The entire Sea region has been populated for thousands of years. What is your point? That they had to be Khmer because it was in cambodia? Lol I think you first need to find out who are Khmer people and where Khmer people come from.

- Sailendra and Java had a relationship and a common source in Indonesia.

Indianisation happened on the mainland before the islands. There is some ARTISTIC influence in the art of kambujadesa but there is also influence from many sources. once again this is just creating fantasy to connect jayavarman II and Java. Trying to force an explanation of the inscription by creating a theory that ignores other sources is flawed from step 1.

- The Chams came to Southern-Cambodia to intermix with the indeginous population.

Are you claiming Khmers are indigenous? Lol Chams were always present in southern Cambodia. Malayu people's are found along the entire coastline. Cham history is Prekhmer. Also the prah thong legend has the area belonging to Chams. Once again we go back to the question. Who are Khmers and where do Khmers come from.

- The Chams and the Khmers had a influence from Javanese architecture.

This is to be expected from cultural proximity. Java was a major power. Those weaker nations will adopt art and culture from a more powerful neighbour. This happens everywhere. It doesn't explain anything regarding the political influence or if they had a direct hand in the country. It is just art. Chinese art influence appears everywhere. It doesn't mean those countries were run by the Chinese or had direct control from them.

- Khmers got Sanskrit from the Cham (or at least the same source).

Sanskrit came with the Indians. No brainer on this one.

- The Khmers and Chams were on the same time freed from a foreign enemy (Jayavarman II calling out his own country, the Chams making an inscription that they regained control)

Like I explained before, this has absolutely no connection. The Chams regained control of their temple/ country from either the annamese or it is written as these people were BLACK not just dark. Are the people of Java Negritos? No. Are the people of Chenla Negritos? No. Where is the connection?

Jayavarman II never ventured into Champa. How did he liberate them lol trying a bit too hard to fit 2 different events together isn't it lol

- Chaiya in the inscription would have called "Jaya", instead of "Java".

then can you explain why zabaj is situated there on ptolemys map? Choosing to ignore this source as well?

- The new architecture suddenly shows an increased influence from Java/Champa, while reports of pirates have been described by the inscriptions.

Early angkorian architecture shows a Chenla foundations. But then again how much influence on art and architecture are we talking about? Complete transitions? I don't think so.

- Jayavarman II began in South-Cambodia, according to the inscription: "returned to the land of his ancestors" and began his career again in southern Cambodia.

Jayavarman II sailed to Cambodia and began his campaign following the old Indian trade route. The land of his ancestors could be Chenla as he finished his campaign in old Chenla territory. He doesn't come from south Cambodia. It is where he made landfall and began his campaign. A miss interpretation of the inscription. The entire area/ land in the 9th century was Chenla. Jayavarman II returned to Chenla.

- Chvea is much more likely to be Chvea (Champa) then Java or Lavo, according to the new influences the Khmers received.

Ch is interchangeable with J, Then V, the old pronunciation of the Khmer EA is just A. You are missing the M and the P also Champa has No V. Chvea is Java.

- Chinese Li are not reliable, but the ratio of the distances cohere with a place in Southern- Cambodia.

How long is one ancient Li. No need to guesstimate. Go look it up. Even if you give a 100km for variations it will still not put the location in Cambodia.

- Chinese use their own words that predate Thai language, and are not coherent with the literally foreign word.

Then explain the names of ancient kings and do dvaravati written in the Chinese style. This argument is laughable. There were so many places and people named by the Chinese that do know what they are.

- The language of Khmers is biquinary, as it was in Angkor.

Angkorians used base 10 system.

- Chenla and Funan were the same.

Different kingdoms. The only thing that would make them the same is the territory they controlled.

Seems like your trying very hard to make a theory connecting Khmer to everything and ignoring evidenced and other sources. You've probably realised Funan were not Khmers so you try to connect Chams/malayu with Funan then connect Khmer with Chams lol

[/b]

[SabaiSabai]

I never claimed Thai people stole everything. I already said that there was an exchange of culture, through war AND other ways the people were connected. But I do hate the fact that they try (and tried) to twist the history and say Khom were not Khmer, since evrything points to an indeginous population in South-Cambodia that developed their own culture and became the most dominant kingdom.

None of the indeginous people of Siam were involved in the beginning of Angkorean culture, and were only connected after 550 AD, when Isanavarman expanded his fathers territory in Mon territory.

Khom is not Khmer. All arrows point to Mon. You can try to force it to be Khmer as much as possible. Even mainstream history thinks Khmer is Khom based on the fabricated Khmer empire.

From evidences we have provided, it shows VERY clearly that Khom were not Khmer.

What is the evidence that the people the Tai people referred to as Khom were Khmer?

[Jin4life]

actually no Thais officially sided with you Khmers, becos we know you khmer can handle those Laotards. But when we read your Khmer-Lao fight, we just sided with you Khmer. LOL


Wrong, You idiot insulted me first in Thai chat with you dirty stinky mouth. I am lazy now to dig that stinky comment of yours. You insulted me even I never talk to you. I thought you were good Khmer member like Mushroom. But I was shocked when you revealed your true color. Idiot Khmerboi is the real problem, Thai members here only counter back his racist against Thai. When we got bored, this idiot Khmer still come back to Thai chat created so fuking lame treads there. LOL This boy need strong medicine from Thais. So all insults direct to him only. It just cant' helped if some good Khmers read those insults. Good Thai members when read Khmerboi's insults, they just stay cool. But good Khmer members like you can't stand it. LOL If you really hate me, you can filter/block me out, you dumbass. Nobody force you to read my comments.

The only reason you Thai members here sided with Khmer is because you cannot fight alone with us Lao members.

For every comments and argument made by Thai members is just a joke to us because in reality is much different then we see here in AF.

[Leeporter]

^
^
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_people

Is this, Pra Suthon Manora, really Khmer origin?

Let me show them again the original Manora of SEA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A1akjN3KYA...feature=related[color="#000080"][/color]

This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 12 2012, 08:39 PM

[Leeporter]

I never claimed Thai people stole everything.

Go read around the internet what your Khmer people tried to fool themselves and the world.

None of the indeginous people of Siam were involved in the beginning of Angkorean culture, and were only connected after 550 AD, when Isanavarman expanded his fathers territory in Mon territory.

All wrong!



This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 12 2012, 08:38 PM

[KhmerBoi]

These Thai is shamless to make a joke here..

Okay let me clear:

I said Thai is thief you know why?
because of Siem history and Thai history teaching Thai kid about the Imperial knowledge of Siem again their negbour..
Siem education sickness about Khorm who build the great civilization base in Angkor who is Thai Ancestor (of Siam). Thai teaching a confuse identity.. If you ask Thai who is Siam? they will come up with differences understanding.. they have have so much doubt and confusing! They actually want to take all credit from what have done! So who being keep in mind that who is thief?? Actually Thai is think Khmer stole everything from Siam or Thai and claim isn't belong to the Khmer Empire... that why these Thai never agree about the idea of Empire is existed but they actually mention that the Empire have moved to Thailand. Again, you can betray other but if you want to betray your self you can claim that I am wrong!

Khmer call Siem thief because in both legend/history Siem/Siam have burned Khmer city of longvek and took all the importance documents, intellectual and people by force to Siamland.. Khemr again see that while Khmer got civil war Thai sent their troop and take over Preah Vihear Temple and flying their flag illegally on Khmer temple.. Khmer took it back from 1962.. Again, Khmer have civil War.. Thai sent their troop and put their flag on the Khmer temple.. until 1999 (if I am not mistaken) Phnom Penh Principle have visit Preah Vihea and protested against Thai to take their flag off on Khmer temple.. all these act from Thai Media never mention.

Again, when Khmer register Preah Vihear, some Thai politician took that opportunity to stole power from other Thai politician (its time for them to use their nationalist that they raise to again Cambodia) for that political play I think it is very look down on Cambodia side!!!!!
when Thai can't win on Khmer on international stage in Preah Vihear case then they start to review of What Khmer have been register to world heritage and claim it is Thai... while for international understanding this Thai act it just show how stupid and uncivilized Thai is! Even Khmer side say Thai can register whatever they want... Khmer have no problem with that and if they want to review that Khmer welcome but we don't think Thai need to do it!
I think that is just come from their jealousy!

So you should realize that.... that is Thai problems which pay less respected to Khmer people in Cambodia. And natually that will always problems with Khmer if Thai like you agreed with all your government act against us Khmer with no realistic!

This post has been edited by KhmerBoi: Feb 12 2012, 09:08 PM

[Jin4life]

These Thai is shamless to make a joke here..

Okay let me clear:

I said Thai is thief you know why?
because of Siem history and Thai history teaching Thai kid about the Imperial knowledge of Siem again their negbour..
Siem education sickness about Khorm who build the great civilization base in Angkor who is Thai Ancestor (of Siam). Thai teaching a confuse identity.. If you ask Thai who is Siam? they will come up with differences understanding.. they have have so much doubt and confusing! They actually want to take all credit from what have done! So who being keep in mind that who is thief?? Actually Thai is think Khmer stole everything from Siam or Thai and claim isn't belong to the Khmer Empire... that why these Thai never agree about the idea of Empire is existed but they actually mention that the Empire have moved to Thailand. Again, you can betray other but if you want to betray your self you can claim that I am wrong!

Khmer call Siem thief because in both legend/history Siem/Siam have burned Khmer city of longvek and took all the importance documents, intellectual and people by force to Siamland.. Khemr again see that while Khmer got civil war Thai sent their troop and take over Preah Vihear Temple and flying their flag illegally on Khmer temple.. Khmer took it back from 1962.. Again, Khmer have civil War.. Thai sent their troop and put their flag on the Khmer temple.. until 1999 (if I am not mistaken) Phnom Penh Principle have visit Preah Vihea and protested against Thai to take their flag off on Khmer temple.. all these act from Thai Media never mention.

Again, when Khmer register Preah Vihear, some Thai politician took that opportunity to stole power from other Thai politician (its time for them to use their nationalist that they raise to again Cambodia) for that political play I think it is very look down on Cambodia side!!!!!
when Thai can't win on Khmer on international stage in Preah Vihear case then they start to review of What Khmer have been register to world heritage and claim it is Thai... while for international understanding this Thai act it just show how stupid and uncivilized Thai is! Even Khmer side say Thai can register whatever they want... Khmer have no problem with that and if they want to review that Khmer welcome but we don't think Thai need to do it!
I think that is just come from their jealousy!

So you should realize that.... that is Thai problems which pay less respected to Khmer people in Cambodia. And natually that will always problems with Khmer if Thai like you agreed with all your government act against us Khmer with no realistic!

Don't worry friend. Not all Thai are like these Thai members here.

Thai only hang out with Khmer people here in the state only if Laotian or Laotian friend has Khmer friend with them. That's because both Khmer and Lao get along with each other quite well. Same with Vietnamese people too.

[Leeporter]

These Thai is shamless to make a joke here..

Okay let me clear:

I said Thai is thief you know why?
because of Siem history and Thai history teaching Thai kid about the Imperial knowledge of Siem again their negbour..
Siem education sickness about Khorm who build the great civilization base in Angkor who is Thai Ancestor (of Siam). Thai teaching a confuse identity.. If you ask Thai who is Siam? they will come up with differences understanding.. they have have so much doubt and confusing! They actually want to take all credit from what have done! So who being keep in mind that who is thief?? Actually Thai is think Khmer stole everything from Siam or Thai and claim isn't belong to the Khmer Empire... that why these Thai never agree about the idea of Empire is existed but they actually mention that the Empire have moved to Thailand. Again, you can betray other but if you want to betray your self you can claim that I am wrong!

Khmer call Siem thief because in both legend/history Siem/Siam have burned Khmer city of longvek and took all the importance documents, intellectual and people by force to Siamland.. Khemr again see that while Khmer got civil war Thai sent their troop and take over Preah Vihear Temple and flying their flag illegally on Khmer temple.. Khmer took it back from 1962.. Again, Khmer have civil War.. Thai sent their troop and put their flag on the Khmer temple.. until 1999 (if I am not mistaken) Phnom Penh Principle have visit Preah Vihea and protested against Thai to take their flag off on Khmer temple.. all these act from Thai Media never mention.

Again, when Khmer register Preah Vihear, some Thai politician took that opportunity to stole power from other Thai politician (its time for them to use their nationalist that they raise to again Cambodia) for that political play I think it is very look down on Cambodia side!!!!!
when Thai can't win on Khmer on international stage in Preah Vihear case then they start to review of What Khmer have been register to world heritage and claim it is Thai... while for international understanding this Thai act it just show how stupid and uncivilized Thai is! Even Khmer side say Thai can register whatever they want... Khmer have no problem with that and if they want to review that Khmer welcome but we don't think Thai need to do it!
I think that is just come from their jealousy!

So you should realize that.... that is Thai problems which pay less respected to Khmer people in Cambodia. And natually that will always problems with Khmer if Thai like you agreed with all your government act against us Khmer with no realistic!

You've done enough crying?

Let's go back to dig the truth.

[KhmerBoi]

Don't worry friend. Not all Thai are like these Thai members here.

Thai only hang out with Khmer people here in the state only if Laotian or Laotian friend has Khmer friend with them. That's because both Khmer and Lao get along with each other quite well. Same with Vietnamese people too.

I also have Thai friends!!! We normally get along with each other as well.. I wonder why just Thai people here.... trying to claim everything from Khmer... and I can't believe that they claim even Cham king as Tai! I just feel what ups with this Thai people here!!!!

[Suriin1234]

I also have Thai friends!!! We normally get along with each other as well.. I wonder why just Thai people here.... trying to claim everything from Khmer... and I can't believe that they claim even Cham king as Tai! I just feel what ups with this Thai people here!!!!

They have nobody else to argue with them or listen to them so they come here.

[KhmerBoi]

You've done enough crying?

Let's go back to dig the truth.

You just can't get enough and wasting your time which something that we already done... you look only the history... and you believe you are right and you are smarter!! I claimed no wrong you Thai have no stable now! Let see what will going to happen in Thailand.. We actually want to help you to realize the truth and prevent what had happen to long history of the Khmer and it's might happen to Thailand as well... but you guys just keep shouting.. Khmer this Khmer.. you even jealouse of Khmer when Khmer call Cambodia as Sruk Khmer what ups man?? What wrong with your mentality!! Can you just live peacefully with your neighbor a bit? or you think you have fun to do that??