New Theory on Angkor, Who were the last Varman kings? Options

[KhmerBoi]

The language of Angkor came from Chenla, not Funan. Why would it be related? Lol did you actually think there was one continuous link from Funan to Angkor? Lol ridiculous.

I have already explained where Angkors language came from. How on earth did you come up with trying to link Finan language to Angkor lol trying too hard to make us find a link where there isn't one? Lol retarded

Because the there is no other evidence say not is not Khmer.. neither there is no envidence to say it was Khorm or other language but Sanskrit.. Do you think that the whole population speak Sankrit.. so what is the language of the Queen Lieyee?? what we can see is.. the Java were push to Champasak by Indian during reign Kaundinya and later the Khmer language appear.. eventhough the Java-Khmer from Chanla invaded the Indian-Khmer but still the Khmer language using nationwide.. and the Cham language only appear in Champa...
and According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Funan
it say it possible Austronesia or Khmer then according to the what happen to Funan it clear that the Queen of Funan have always Khmer!

[LoveIsAllAround]

here's the email I sent to Prof Charles higham.

Hello Professor Higham,

I am what I would like to call an amature investigator of history and have spent a few years doing research into the civilisations of South East Asia. I have recently watched a documentary that you hosted about the state of Funan. It was very enjoyable but it strikes me on a few points.

1. Funan was mentioned in the Liang Shu, Funan was located 7000 Li south of Rinan (Northern Vietnam) and 3000 Li south west of Lin yi (Champa).

Now I have calculated using an approximated distance as 400-500 meters per Li. This will then make Funan 3000 KM south of Rinan, north vietnam and also 1500KM south west of Champa. How does this then place Funan that close to Rinan and Champa?

Vietnam from north to south has is measured at 1695KM. According to my measurements it is almost double the distance away. It is also 1500KM south west of south vietnam. This also does not place Funan as mentioned in the Liang Shu as in Cambodia.

2. It is mentioned that Qiaochenru (Kaundhinya) came to Pan Pan and the Funan people welcomed him to become king. How does Oc Eo have any relation to Pan Pan? My colleague has found that there is a place in Thailand which fits to the description of Funan (There is a big river 10 li across, which flows from the northwest and enters the sea in the east.) This river is found in southern Thailand near a town called Phnom called the Tapi river. There is also mention that it is in a bay west of the sea. From this I take it that it is on the east coast of a land form and is situated in a Bay area. This does not look like a geographical description of Oc Eo or any kingdom in Cambodia.

If you can please answer how is it that you believe Funan to have been in Cambodia? and what sources have you used to ascertain such a definite answer?

Also, have you ever heard of the ancient Kingdoms of Sri Thep and Muang Fa Daed Soong Yang situated near the Mun river in Isan region Thailand. These kingdoms were said to be very powerful kingdoms that sprouted in the 6th century. What is their relation with Chenla? The 6th century is the time frame where chenla culture exploded through out S.E.A. Could it be that this culture had come from the Austro-asiatic peoples of this region rather than the Austro-asiatic group found in the lower mekhong delta valley?

Thank you for your time.

Kind Regards,

Jae Boonpeng

Still no reply wonder why.

That's great

btw, I afraid that the khmer psycho (can't remember his name) may take your name, google it and come to your house! LOL

[LoveIsAllAround]

Because the there is no other evidence say not is not Khmer.. neither there is no envidence to say it was Khorm or other language but Sanskrit.. Do you think that the whole population speak Sankrit.. so what is the language of the Queen Lieyee?? what we can see is.. the Java were push to Champasak by Indian during reign Kaundinya and later the Khmer language appear.. eventhough the Java-Khmer from Chanla invaded the Indian-Khmer but still the Khmer language using nationwide.. and the Cham language only appear in Champa...
and According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Funan
it say it possible Austronesia or Khmer then according to the what happen to Funan it clear that the Queen of Funan have always Khmer!

Dude, slaves are not colonizers. Get over it. You've just claimed to be angkorean just becos those Frnech historian said so. You don't have any solid sources in your hands to back you that you are same people with ancient people. And your true lengend pra thong nang naak clearly indicate that your ancestor are Cham.

[SabaiSabai]

That's great

btw, I afraid that the khmer psycho (can't remember his name) may take your name, google it and come to your house! LOL

Then I will be a martyr and the world will know how ridiculous these khmertards are that they will kill someone to hide their shameless false history lol

[SabaiSabai]

Because the there is no other evidence say not is not Khmer.. neither there is no envidence to say it was Khorm or other language but Sanskrit.. Do you think that the whole population speak Sankrit.. so what is the language of the Queen Lieyee?? what we can see is.. the Java were push to Champasak by Indian during reign Kaundinya and later the Khmer language appear.. eventhough the Java-Khmer from Chanla invaded the Indian-Khmer but still the Khmer language using nationwide.. and the Cham language only appear in Champa...
and According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Funan
it say it possible Austronesia or Khmer then according to the what happen to Funan it clear that the Queen of Funan have always Khmer!

According to Chinese records, the People of Funan spoke the same language as the people of Tun Sun.

Tun Sun is Tennaserim.

Tennaserim is in Mon country in Burma

This is the only reference that the people of Funan spoke a form of AA language. Well to be exact, they spoke Mon lol or at least they spoke a language that would eventually turn into Mon

I don't think the Mon language as we know it as Mon existed at that time. Don't quote me on that though. Will have to check it.

Shameless Khmer lol

[Leeporter]

Here to give a better inside of Srivijaya 7th 13th century:



None denies there was a connection between Srivijaya and Khmer empire, but I would like to see solid prooth that Khmer language derrived from Southern Thai language. The first Khmer inscriptions derrived seperately from the inscriptions you mention, and what is the connection between those?

Khmer (spoken) language probably derived from Tamil and local people like Cham or Mon.

Khmer language was in the same family with Sakai, local tribes in southern Thailand.



Khmer and Sakai may share the same origin, who know.

[Leeporter]

here's the email I sent to Prof Charles higham.

Hello Professor Higham,

I am what I would like to call an amature investigator of history and have spent a few years doing research into the civilisations of South East Asia. I have recently watched a documentary that you hosted about the state of Funan. It was very enjoyable but it strikes me on a few points.

1. Funan was mentioned in the Liang Shu, Funan was located 7000 Li south of Rinan (Northern Vietnam) and 3000 Li south west of Lin yi (Champa).

Now I have calculated using an approximated distance as 400-500 meters per Li. This will then make Funan 3000 KM south of Rinan, north vietnam and also 1500KM south west of Champa. How does this then place Funan that close to Rinan and Champa?

Vietnam from north to south has is measured at 1695KM. According to my measurements it is almost double the distance away. It is also 1500KM south west of south vietnam. This also does not place Funan as mentioned in the Liang Shu as in Cambodia.

2. It is mentioned that Qiaochenru (Kaundhinya) came to Pan Pan and the Funan people welcomed him to become king. How does Oc Eo have any relation to Pan Pan? My colleague has found that there is a place in Thailand which fits to the description of Funan (There is a big river 10 li across, which flows from the northwest and enters the sea in the east.) This river is found in southern Thailand near a town called Phnom called the Tapi river. There is also mention that it is in a bay west of the sea. From this I take it that it is on the east coast of a land form and is situated in a Bay area. This does not look like a geographical description of Oc Eo or any kingdom in Cambodia.

If you can please answer how is it that you believe Funan to have been in Cambodia? and what sources have you used to ascertain such a definite answer?

Also, have you ever heard of the ancient Kingdoms of Sri Thep and Muang Fa Daed Soong Yang situated near the Mun river in Isan region Thailand. These kingdoms were said to be very powerful kingdoms that sprouted in the 6th century. What is their relation with Chenla? The 6th century is the time frame where chenla culture exploded through out S.E.A. Could it be that this culture had come from the Austro-asiatic peoples of this region rather than the Austro-asiatic group found in the lower mekhong delta valley?

Thank you for your time.

Kind Regards,

Jae Boonpeng

Still no reply wonder why.

[ladyboyfarang]

im so proud of my khmer ancestors who built angkor wat. chaiyo srok khmer!

[Leeporter]

im so proud of my khmer ancestors who built angkor wat. chaiyo srok khmer!

Jayavarman II who built what you called "Angkor" was from Chaiya, Suratthani, southern Thailand.

And he was not a Khmer.

It was not until 1340-1450 for Khmers to have the first Khmer king.

[KhmerBoi]

Jayavarman II who built what you called "Angkor" was from Chaiya, Suratthani, southern Thailand.

And he was not a Khmer.

It was not until 1340-1450 for Khmers to have the first Khmer king.

[Leeporter]

Sanskrit script found in Chaiya shows that by 775, Sri Bodhi (Srivichai) had a king (of Srivichai) who called himself "the second Vishanu" because he was the "origin of Sailendra Dynasty". His title was "Sri Maharaja"

He was the first king of Srivijaya declared himself as a god king.

Link to side A
http://www.sac.or.th/databases/inscription...4&id_part=1

Link to side B
http://www.sac.or.th/databases/inscription...4&id_part=2



During the same period (between 770-802), a king of Sailendra Dynasty came from what is called "Java" and built Angkor.

And he was known as Jayavarman II who also created the cult of god king or "Devaraja" in Chenla.

I am telling you that that "Java" was what Ptolemy called "Zaba" in the map below.



And if you notice the "god king" cult created by Jayavarman II and the king of Srivijaya in Chaiya in the same period, he must be related to that "the second Vishanu king" in Chaiya's script or even he was that "the second Vishanu" himself.

You must be blind if you don't notice that.




This post has been edited by Leeporter: Jan 25 2012, 07:37 AM

[SEAhistory]

According to Chinese records, the People of Funan spoke the same language as the people of Tun Sun.

Tun Sun is Tennaserim.

Tennaserim is in Mon country in Burma

This is the only reference that the people of Funan spoke a form of AA language. Well to be exact, they spoke Mon lol or at least they spoke a language that would eventually turn into Mon

I don't think the Mon language as we know it as Mon existed at that time. Don't quote me on that though. Will have to check it.

Shameless Khmer lol

Hmm you a bit right here.. Tun Sun is in south and is most likely a Mon state called 'Five Heads' (which would fit with a Mon kingdom with five kings). That the language is similar, would point to an Austro-Asiatic language and proves more that Funan was Khmer! So thank you for pointing this out.

[SEAhistory]

Khmer (spoken) language probably derived from Tamil and local people like Cham or Mon.

Khmer language was in the same family with Sakai, local tribes in southern Thailand.



Khmer and Sakai may share the same origin, who know.

Yes, the written version most likely came through Cham script in the east, developed by Khmer rulers whom adopted Indian religion. The language family of Sakai is just as related as the Pearic people in Cambodia, but genetically very deifferent and more related to Papuan and Aboriginals of Australia. So, they are not the same origin, lol.

[SEAhistory]

Sanskrit script found in Chaiya shows that by 775, Sri Bodhi (Srivichai) had a king (of Srivichai) who called himself "the second Vishanu" because he was the "origin of Sailendra Dynasty". His title was "Sri Maharaja"

He was the first king of Srivijaya declared himself as a god king.

Link to side A
http://www.sac.or.th/databases/inscription...4&id_part=1

Link to side B
http://www.sac.or.th/databases/inscription...4&id_part=2



During the same period (between 770-802), a king of Sailendra Dynasty came from what is called "Java" and built Angkor.

And he was known as Jayavarman II who also created the cult of god king or "Devaraja" in Chenla.

I am telling you that that "Java" was what Ptolemy called "Zaba" in the map below.



And if you notice the "god king" cult created by Jayavarman II and the king of Srivijaya in Chaiya in the same period, he must be related to that "the second Vishanu king" in Chaiya's script or even he was that "the second Vishanu" himself.

You must be blind if you don't notice that.

Whys is the script completely different from Old Khmer? They changed their script completely when they found Angkor? Java is not Zaba, haha. Java is Java. But you hould make a thread wit Malay people and argue about that. I betyou lose. You like to play with words to much. Give us some solid evidence.

[SabaiSabai]

Hmm you a bit right here.. Tun Sun is in south and is most likely a Mon state called 'Five Heads' (which would fit with a Mon kingdom with five kings). That the language is similar, would point to an Austro-Asiatic language and proves more that Funan was Khmer! So thank you for pointing this out.

According to some idiot. The Mon language is completely different to Khmer. The only similarities is the script.

So according to what the Chinese records say. How can the language be related to Khmer? roflmao another retarded attempt to claim everything as Khmer. Well done you lol

Whats next? adam and eve where Khmers? lol

[SabaiSabai]

Whys is the script completely different from Old Khmer? They changed their script completely when they found Angkor? Java is not Zaba, haha. Java is Java. But you hould make a thread wit Malay people and argue about that. I betyou lose. You like to play with words to much. Give us some solid evidence.

Zaba was what Ptolemy called it dumbass. Why is it suddenly you become so retarded? oh wait.. your just convincing yourself it is false evidence roflmao

KHMER KHMER KHMER KHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMER!

I bet thats all thats going through your head isnt it lol

[LilBinjbinj]

Zaba was what Ptolemy called it dumbass. Why is it suddenly you become so retarded? oh wait.. your just convincing yourself it is false evidence roflmao

KHMER KHMER KHMER KHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMERKHMER KHMER KHMER!

I bet thats all thats going through your head isnt it lol

Zaba sound like Ya-Ba'Crazy Thai pill" in Thai to me.

This post has been edited by LilBinjbinj: Jan 25 2012, 08:31 PM

[SEAhistory]

I am glad I can convince you on that.

It's beyond my expectaction to convince stubborn Khmer members here.

My purpose is to post something that can be searchable for "real" historians and hope that they will investigate the truth.

But to be able to convince Khmer member like you, it's totally beyond my expectation!

Let's summarize what we've agreed on

1) Varman kings of Angkor were not related to Khmer king in the Chronicle of Cambodia (the original one, not the one rewritten by the French)

2) Today Cambodian dance were taken from Siam

3) Khmer borrowed counting system from Thai (counting from 30+ and the word "ha (5)" and "hok (6)" are hard evidences)

So, we won't come back to discuss on these relatively new issues anymore, ok?

We will investigate on the Angkor and pre-Angkor period (i.e. Funan, Chenla, Srivijaya, Davaravati etc) who is who.


1) The last varman king was Jayavarman VIII, and Trosok Paem aka Srindavarman III was the first non-royal Khmer king. Wether the first Khmer king mentioned in Chronicles is related to Indravarman III I do not know.

2) There is many evidence of Apsara being in Cambodia, it was during 14th, 15th century disappeared, and entered Ayutthuya. More info on Apsara dance soon, I am gathering more evidence now.

There was no evidence that Siameses took the dance from Khmer, it's all from the French's imagination and from Mr. Thouinn who created such story.

Siamese (i.e. Ayudhaya) started attacking Angkor since its first day (1352), it's not possible for them to adopt the looser's culture.

I will explain to you later the relation between Angkor, Ayudhaya, PhnomPehn and Srivijaya.

But for now, Siamese didn't take the dance from Khmer for sure.

Not true, they were attacking Angkor before that, that's why the territory of Kamboja (Khom country) declined.

There you go, you know the history, don't you?

How come you cliamed that Thai dance was taken from Khmer and so "Khmer had to turn to Siamese for reviving their culture?

Isn't that contradict to each other???


It is no secret that at one point Siamese influence entered Cambodia, just like Vietnamese influence, etc.


People in this region communicated to each other and it's possible that some words are spoken than other word so it became normal word used, but it doesn't prove anything. Are you proving that Angkor was Khmer because there are some Khmer loan words in today Thai language?

Majority of loan words in Thai language is Pali/Sankrit, not Khmer.
And most of what you claim "Khmer" word borrowed by Thai are actually Pali/Sanskrit words.


Most of Khmer words consist of Sanskrit Pali words. How do you think they entered Thai language? Also Mon language has also heavily been influenced by Khmer, so there you go. Go read my previous post about linguistic studies Mon.

I will provide you the evidence to support my theory later, but for now, do you agree that there was something big happened during the period between 1335 - 1360?

We saw the last Varman (King Varman) in 1328 - 1335.

We have the first Khmer king (King Nippean Bat) appeared in the Chronicle of Cambodia during 1340 - 1350.

We have the first King of Ayudhaya (King Uthong) around 1350, followed by a series of attacking from Ayudhaya to Angkor (and finally forced Khmer kings to abandon the city around 1433.)

All happened within a course of 20 years!

Do you think those events are not related?

Some must have been related yes. But there are aother factors to keep in mind. 1. Drought: evidence from trees have shown that there was a period of drought during these times. 2)Plague: plague began in China around 1330, and Angkor had intensive contact with Chinese.
The Chronicles are already proven to be very inaccurate, and it was not until 1370 that a Khmer king was recognized by China. So somethin happened between 1327 and 1370.
As I see it, the first Khmer king was the one that got rid of the Siamese until the city was sacked again in 1431. Which would explain the revenge of Ayutthuya.

Also, Jayavarman IX made an inscription about sieging a city. This was probably a link to seizing Siamese territory.

This post has been edited by SEAhistory: Jan 25 2012, 08:40 PM

[SEAhistory]

According to some idiot. The Mon language is completely different to Khmer. The only similarities is the script.

So according to what the Chinese records say. How can the language be related to Khmer? roflmao another retarded attempt to claim everything as Khmer. Well done you lol

Whats next? adam and eve where Khmers? lol

Old Khmer was indeed completely different from Old Mon, but in the eyes of Chinese it could have been a similar language. If they were able to communicate, the Chinese would have said they spoke the same language, but instead they said it was similar (Mon-Khmer).

If you by Adam and Eva mean Lord Kaudinya and Princess Meru, then YES (well, the princess)!!

[LoveIsAllAround]

Hmm you a bit right here.. Tun Sun is in south and is most likely a Mon state called 'Five Heads' (which would fit with a Mon kingdom with five kings). That the language is similar, would point to an Austro-Asiatic language and proves more that Funan was Khmer! So thank you for pointing this out.

That's totally stupid, to claim Mon as Khmer. LOL Mon and Khmer are just grouped to same language family, it doesn't mean they are same people. They are not mutual intelligible. They are different languages. Thai, Lanna Tai, Lao, are closed to be called dialects but we don't say we are same people. We are related, but we also have our own dignity, identity. I don't why Khmer think like this. Have you asked Mon people yet?

If you insist, you have to claim Dai-Viet of Vietnamese as Khmer too.