Is the Philippines really worth it?, I'm starting to give up Options

[YasukeKomiya]

We who are educated in the matter of Rizal know that he really wanted the Philippines to become a province of Spain. Independence, he mentioned, was the only alternative people would take if Spain refused reforms in the colony. He only said this as a statement never really advocating independence cause deep down he loved Spain (probably more than the Philippines and China where his ancestors came from). If our supposed hero advocated for our country to be a province what does that tell? It says that our country wasn't worth $hit to be a real nation and that it should depend on some other govt. miles away to give it any purpose. What kind of @$$hole would be willing to let his homeland just be a province to some goddamn foreigners instead of asking for independence. Do Okinawans want to be part of Japan? No they want independence because culturally and ethnically they are not Japanese. Now fast forward, we have independence yet our govt. is a failure (we are a fu-king joke in Asia where things are progressing whether economically or socially) and people leave it for greener pastures. Sure they send money back but its for the family. Our govt. doesn't give a fu-k in seeing the whole nation prosper, they only give a damn about filling their own goddamn pockets. The people may be no better as they just either complain or bring each other down instead of collectively getting $hit done. We learned individualism from the West and we are doing a fu-king fine job in doing that. Going back to Rizal he said if they can't be a province of Spain they could at least emulate Spain and fully Hispanicize the archipelago. Apparently our native culture along with the nation isn't worth $hit to at least be mixed, we must be as he advocated the fu-king Spain in Asia. Even today our "multicultural" society seems to be just people who either want to copy Spain, America, or even Korea for some reason. I don't mind foreign influence (nearly every country on Earth is like that some more than others) but when people only try to put in bits of the native culture its sad. People like to say we are mixed but in reality it is really people just focusing on one aspect. People send money from overseas to the Philippines only to comeback and see that its still the same $hithole they left. Scientists, engineers, doctors, authors, and ect. don't come back to help, sure the govt. is an obstacle but still they could at least fu-king try or at least make some effort to the help the homeland. I want to believe our country is worth saving but if people like Rizal, our "national hero" and advocate of Tagalog, in the end just wanted our homeland to be some fu-king province and wrote his last words in Spanish it seems like it doesn't matter. I'm in a serious crisis and I have no friends to talk to (all the Pinoys and Pinays I know don't like to talk much about the Philippines, again another reason to see how worthless our country is) and I could use probably some wiser persons advice.

[filipinoy]

you completely misunderstood Pepe.. & took some of his words the wrong way. if only that show "Bayani" before was possible... you travel in time engage in our ancestors' struggle... also talk & asked questions to them.

This post has been edited by filipinoy: Dec 18 2010, 02:51 AM

[YasukeKomiya]

Then what did Rizal? I don't remember him advocating independence just reforms through peaceful means. Even Ghandi wanted full indepence rather than allow his nation to be some1 else's dog.

[juansuing]

We who are educated in the matter of Rizal know that he really wanted the Philippines to become a province of Spain. Independence, he mentioned, was the only alternative people would take if Spain refused reforms in the colony. He only said this as a statement never really advocating independence cause deep down he loved Spain (probably more than the Philippines and China where his ancestors came from). If our supposed hero advocated for our country to be a province what does that tell? It says that our country wasn't worth $hit to be a real nation and that it should depend on some other govt. miles away to give it any purpose. What kind of @$$hole would be willing to let his homeland just be a province to some goddamn foreigners instead of asking for independence. Do Okinawans want to be part of Japan? No they want independence because culturally and ethnically they are not Japanese. Now fast forward, we have independence yet our govt. is a failure (we are a fu-king joke in Asia where things are progressing whether economically or socially) and people leave it for greener pastures. Sure they send money back but its for the family. Our govt. doesn't give a fu-k in seeing the whole nation prosper, they only give a damn about filling their own goddamn pockets. The people may be no better as they just either complain or bring each other down instead of collectively getting $hit done. We learned individualism from the West and we are doing a fu-king fine job in doing that. Going back to Rizal he said if they can't be a province of Spain they could at least emulate Spain and fully Hispanicize the archipelago. Apparently our native culture along with the nation isn't worth $hit to at least be mixed, we must be as he advocated the fu-king Spain in Asia. Even today our "multicultural" society seems to be just people who either want to copy Spain, America, or even Korea for some reason. I don't mind foreign influence (nearly every country on Earth is like that some more than others) but when people only try to put in bits of the native culture its sad. People like to say we are mixed but in reality it is really people just focusing on one aspect. People send money from overseas to the Philippines only to comeback and see that its still the same $hithole they left. Scientists, engineers, doctors, authors, and ect. don't come back to help, sure the govt. is an obstacle but still they could at least fu-king try or at least make some effort to the help the homeland. I want to believe our country is worth saving but if people like Rizal, our "national hero" and advocate of Tagalog, in the end just wanted our homeland to be some fu-king province and wrote his last words in Spanish it seems like it doesn't matter. I'm in a serious crisis and I have no friends to talk to (all the Pinoys and Pinays I know don't like to talk much about the Philippines, again another reason to see how worthless our country is) and I could use probably some wiser persons advice.

Read Noli and El Fili to understand what Rizal really wanted for the country. And if you can find a copy, his third unfinished sequel to El Fili called "Makamisa" is also worth reading.

[Confused43]

I'm not educated in Rizal, and I'm not even Filipino, but don't give up. Take some lessons from American history. Yeah sure we have developed a national cult for independence based on Greco-Roman ideals, ideals imitated in the Philippines btw. But keep in mind, the great statesman first advocated reform within the British Empire first. He wanted what is today a Canadian-like government within the empire. Read up on the Albany Plan. It was only after this idea failed he jumped on the independence bandwagon. It isn't at all unusual for great statesmen to advocate for reform first.

And just because the Philippines is impoverished doesn't mean it isn't a great nation. I've always been captivated with Filipino history, like in modern times when Cory Aquino took power after Marcos. I couldn't name you a single Vietnamese, Korean, or even Japanese leader, but I know more than a few Filipino leaders, and before my stepmom had zero connections with the country. I think that says something.

First of all the Philippines is a fascinated blend of Malay, Arabic, Spanish, and American culture. In a weird way, it is the legacy of the "American empire" which in and of itself is fascinating. I mean, there are 294829483 former British colonies, but how many actually have an American heritage. Filipinos don't just speak English, they speak American English, that's pretty cool and unique.

The same can be said for being Spain's imprint in East Asia. And, I haven't even mentioned the Arabic influence. Some familes are as likely to have Hashemite heritage in the Visayas as Spanish.

But take all of this away and you have an interesting local culture. I've always wondered why this wasn't explored more. Like originally was the Philippines Hindu or Buddhist before the arrival of the Muslims? Like Indonesia?

Why use the Roman alphabet for Tagalog and other Filipino languages? Why not use Babayin or even the Javanese script, Hanacaraka, which is just beautiful, or even (though probably not popular in these times), Arabic, as in Malaysia in some places?

I've always looked upon the Philippines as one of the countries with great potential. I see others in this list too like Zimbabwe, Russia, Vietnam, etc. There's no reason it cannot be a powerhouse again. It is ideally situated next door to China, as a bridge to Europe and Latin America (Spain) and the United States to the east. And, the American heritage gives it a unique connection to neighboring Anglic countries such as India and Australia as well. You just have to have faith in yourselves.

I think the Philippines should actually take a page from China. China created a series of SEZs (special economic zones) starting with Shenzhen and made these strong, economic city-states not unlike Singapore. Eventually these grew and grew the Chinese economy to where it is today. The Philippines could start off with an area such as Makati for one of these SEZs, it is one of the few strong growth areas I can think of. I also believe Clark is an experiment in this endeavor. I also believe the hot climate plays a role. Hot weather can make people lethargic and tired. I've noticed that most of the world's economic giants are in cold areas, most of the poor are tropical. The Philippine government should try an economic experiment in a cool area, such as the temperate city of Baguio and see if economic growth can be stimulated there and if the weather is a connection.

Some ideas.

This post has been edited by Confused43: Dec 18 2010, 11:11 AM

[Barilin-Kita]

We who are educated in the matter of Rizal know that he really wanted the Philippines to become a province of Spain. Independence, he mentioned, was the only alternative people would take if Spain refused reforms in the colony. He only said this as a statement never really advocating independence cause deep down he loved Spain (probably more than the Philippines and China where his ancestors came from). If our supposed hero advocated for our country to be a province what does that tell? It says that our country wasn't worth $hit to be a real nation and that it should depend on some other govt. miles away to give it any purpose. What kind of @$$hole would be willing to let his homeland just be a province to some goddamn foreigners instead of asking for independence. Do Okinawans want to be part of Japan? No they want independence because culturally and ethnically they are not Japanese. Now fast forward, we have independence yet our govt. is a failure (we are a fu-king joke in Asia where things are progressing whether economically or socially) and people leave it for greener pastures. Sure they send money back but its for the family. Our govt. doesn't give a fu-k in seeing the whole nation prosper, they only give a damn about filling their own goddamn pockets. The people may be no better as they just either complain or bring each other down instead of collectively getting $hit done. We learned individualism from the West and we are doing a fu-king fine job in doing that. Going back to Rizal he said if they can't be a province of Spain they could at least emulate Spain and fully Hispanicize the archipelago. Apparently our native culture along with the nation isn't worth $hit to at least be mixed, we must be as he advocated the fu-king Spain in Asia. Even today our "multicultural" society seems to be just people who either want to copy Spain, America, or even Korea for some reason. I don't mind foreign influence (nearly every country on Earth is like that some more than others) but when people only try to put in bits of the native culture its sad. People like to say we are mixed but in reality it is really people just focusing on one aspect. People send money from overseas to the Philippines only to comeback and see that its still the same $hithole they left. Scientists, engineers, doctors, authors, and ect. don't come back to help, sure the govt. is an obstacle but still they could at least fu-king try or at least make some effort to the help the homeland. I want to believe our country is worth saving but if people like Rizal, our "national hero" and advocate of Tagalog, in the end just wanted our homeland to be some fu-king province and wrote his last words in Spanish it seems like it doesn't matter. I'm in a serious crisis and I have no friends to talk to (all the Pinoys and Pinays I know don't like to talk much about the Philippines, again another reason to see how worthless our country is) and I could use probably some wiser persons advice.

Ahhh, another someone waking up to the sweet smell of coffee. Good read, shame not enough peeps take it a step further.

[matigasngulo]

if you want to hear a feel-good story listen to this one, i was thinking about this a while ago:

if you look closely, both Japan and the Philippines have followed a three step path to modernity, without losing touch to what they are

1) Japan modernized, destroyed it's feudal system, embraced English liberalism
1) Filipino Ilustrados were in fact, more philosophe, more humanistic than even their Italian, French or German counterparts and wanted to spread the Enlightenment to the Islas Filipinas, even if it meant using Spanish to achieve that goal (later, it was English)

2) Japan copied Fascism, but adapted it to their traditions, militaristic spirit and their emperor. We know how that ended.
2) Philippines adapted the cutting edge of Progressive liberalism and socialist governance during the Commonwealth. We know how that ended.

3) Japan rebuilt their country, made their technological revolution, their Anime / Pop / Hentai are everywhere.
3) Philippines well, have some nostalgia, to some hip 1960s / 1970s ideal to be exact. Still, it looks good.

[YasukeKomiya]

Woah you have a good point, never thought about comparing those 2 (even though i studied their histories alot since both are my homelands). Well I can't change what Pepe said but at least i may have a chance to change its future (and Japan, for some reason i fear for her)

[LazyAzian]

Jose Rizal wanted the Philippines to become independent without having to resort to war.

The first step was being a colony, then becoming a province. Being a province allowed more development, possibly more influx of Spaniards coming into the Philippines thus it would've given more priority to the islands when people from Spain themselves were inhabiting them, more contact with Spain, and allowed more autonomy.

If this way worked the scenario would've been similar to Canada that was finally granted complete independence from the UK in 1982 without having to resort to war, simply Queen Elizabeth signed papers and passed in the Parliament which did not allow the British Parliament any power to amend the Canadian constituion, similar to British Hong Kong who were just granted autonomy in 1997, or similar to the French, Dutch and Spanish provinces and territories in South America and the Carribbean where year they constantly do votes on whether they should grant themselves autonomy or not and it is often based on how well their colonial powers take care of them.

Unfortunately La Liga Filipina was dissolved the moment Jose Rizal died and this plan was never realized, instead the Philippines resorted in a very messy Revolution. Revolutions tend to be used as last resorts since the aftermath is very messy, unstable governments, etc. Just look at France and USA after their independence, they had civil wars, etc.

The Philippines was granted a second chance with the Americans, they made the Philippines a Commonwealth, and the Americans granted Independence without resorting to war.

Unfortunately the Philippines still managed to make itself a poor, messed up, problematic, corrupt country. It was basically given a chance to undo the messy aftermath of the Philippine Revolution.

[YasukeKomiya]

Well from what i have seen most former british colonies have done well cause the colonial govt. worked well and thus a fit model to follow after the colony gained independence. While the Spanish govt. was probably good in Spain their colonial govts. were bastards. Most former Spanish colonies would have corruption and various problems since most wouldn't have a fit role model or the natives had no exp. in govt since they weren't given chance. well once again dam spanairds but that is not important now

[Prau123]

Well from what i have seen most former british colonies have done well cause the colonial govt. worked well and thus a fit model to follow after the colony gained independence. While the Spanish govt. was probably good in Spain their colonial govts. were bastards. Most former Spanish colonies would have corruption and various problems since most wouldn't have a fit role model or the natives had no exp. in govt since they weren't given chance. well once again dam spanairds but that is not important now

I use to think this way also. If we look at the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, they are all first-world nations, and these countries were colonized by the British. But if we look at Latin America, the Philippines, and some of the Pacific Islands, which were colonized by the Spanish, they are generally considered third-world countries. It would be easy for one to conclude that British colonies were developed better as compared to Spanish colonies. However, the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are largley majority British or European in population, and it was they that developed the country to become a first-world nation, and not the indigenous population such as the Native Americans of the USA or Canada, the Aborigines of Australia, or the Maori of New Zealand. Most of their indigenous populations were put into reservation lands, and these lands are in the middle of no-where with very little resources or good land to work with. Many of them were also sadly killed, and virtually all of them for centuries were discriminated. South Africa was also colonized by the British, and I believe they are considered a first-world nation. In this case, the British and European population are a minority, something like 10% of the population. But they as a minority were in control of the country, and the majority indigenous African population were under apartheid. So it was the minority that developed South Africa to become a first-world nation with perhaps the cheap labor and talented skills of the majority African population.

If we look at the Indian subcontinent, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka are also considered third-world countries, and yet they were colonized by the British. Singapore and Hong Kong are first-world countries that were colonized by the British, but they are relatively small countries. Singapore became successfully after its independence, and it was largely the Singaporeans themselves that made them successful. I want to see a good size country that was successful, and I only can think of Malaysia, but just like Singapore, it was after Malaysia's independence/formation that this happened, and I can't honestly say how much the British were involved in the development of the economy of today's Malaysia.

Spain's colonies tended to have large indigenous populations that also have an advance civilization. In Mexico you have the Aztec civilization, and remnants of the Mayan civilization, and all the other indigenous groups. In Peru, you have large Inca/Quechan, in Bolivia you have large Aymara populations, and in Chile you have large Mapuche populations.

In fairness to the British, the Spanish probably would not have done as good of a job in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa. From what I know, and please feel free to correct me, the Spaniards generally were involved in trade of natural resources or materials, mining, agriculture, and ravaging the treasures of the Incas and the Aztecs. Much of the gold circulating today in the world may come from the melting down of Inca and Aztec treasures. Again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The Spanish did not develop capitalistic economies. It was the British during the 1800s that supposedly started the Industrial Revolution. The British created large trade and industry throughout the world. But again it was not the indigenous populations that played a major role in the development of these British colonies, many of whom as mentioned earlier were reduced to small populations, put in reservation lands, and discriminated. This is also why several African slaves were imported.

I just want to clarify that after the 13 colonies gained independence from England, the Americans (who were largely of British or European ancestary) would go on to take over the other 47 states. Technically, the Americans were no longer part of the British Empire at that point, and so the British technically cannot be blamed for the take over of the remaining 47 states. The Americans bought much of the Mid-West from Napoleon Bonaparte of France, and then fought the Spanish for the Western states. The Native Americans were probably suffering from diseases introduced by Europeans that they had no resistance to, and were losing their populations quickly, but it was also America's foreign policy called "Manifest Destiny" that pushed them to acquire the lands beyond the 13 colonies, and further beyond to Central America, the Carribean, the Pacific, and the Philippines.

This post has been edited by Prau123: Dec 26 2010, 12:38 AM

[Prau123]

The Philippines is a third-world nation today only partly because of its Spanish colonial roots. We have to take responsibility for our actions as well. The Philippines has been independent from Spain for over 100 years, and independent from the USA for over 50 years. Yes we still have remnants of the Spanish colony in us such as the hacienda sytem, and the rich mestizo class, but the mestizos are dwindling in numbers, and are heavily intermarrying with the local population and therefore their status as mestizo is being blurred, and many of the former rich mestizo families have gradually become middle-class. Many mestizos also left the Philippines after World War II.

[YasukeKomiya]

The Philippines is a third-world nation today only partly because of its Spanish colonial roots. We have to take responsibility for our actions as well. The Philippines has been independent from Spain for over 100 years, and independent from the USA for over 50 years. Yes we still have remnants of the Spanish colony in us such as the hacienda sytem, and the rich mestizo class, but the mestizos are dwindling in numbers, and are heavily intermarrying with the local population and therefore their status as mestizo is being blurred, and many of the former rich mestizo families have gradually become middle-class. Many mestizos also left the Philippines after World War II.

Ya that is what i meant when it is not important now that part of our corruption takes root in colonial Philippines under Spain. They have been gone for some time now and the fact is today the Spaniards are replaced with our own people who screw us over just as badly (and in some cases worse). The fault mostly lays with us now and its about time we start getting things right. We were once great, we were 2nd to Japan in economy in Asia and before the Spaniards came we were trading with various nations. We only have ourselves to blame (govt. and the local people)

[LazyAzian]

One thing is that we shouldn't blame our Spanish roots for being a poor country.

Mind you that we were an American Commonwealth for 50 years. Blaming the Spaniards is stupid, they haven't ruled the country in 150 years!

The Spanish system was flawed, I believe it reflected the government of Spain at the time which was itself very much corrupted.

The British government made the smooth transition from Absolute Monarchy to Constitutional Monarchy. The British invented Magna Carta! Their system of government worked for them, and so internal conflicts were minimal when they started colonizing,

Spain was occupied by the French Empire under Napoleon Bonparte, had a Civil War and their government shifted from Republic to Monarchy.

We had Spain as our colonizer, who already had problems of its own.

Most Filipinos do not know that when the Philippine Revolution ocurred, Spain was just adjusting itself after becomign a Republic then having the Monarchy restored. Internal issues get in the way of handling overseas possessions.

You'd honestly think Spain would care about it's Asian colony when it was having its own problems?

It reminds me of Roman Britain, a province of the Roman Empire which was left to fend for its own against its enemies because the Roman Empire had it's own problems and could care less about some distant province they posses in the British Isles.

Basically: Most former colonies are a reflection of the state of the government of their colonizers.

This post has been edited by LazyAzian: Dec 26 2010, 11:11 AM

[YasukeKomiya]

One thing is that we shouldn't blame our Spanish roots for being a poor country.

Mind you that we were an American Commonwealth for 50 years. Blaming the Spaniards is stupid, they haven't ruled the country in 150 years!

The Spanish system was flawed, I believe it reflected the government of Spain at the time which was itself very much corrupted.

The British government made the smooth transition from Absolute Monarchy to Constitutional Monarchy. The British invented Magna Carta! Their system of government worked for them, and so internal conflicts were minimal when they started colonizing,

Spain was occupied by the French Empire under Napoleon Bonparte, had a Civil War and their government shifted from Republic to Monarchy.

We had Spain as our colonizer, who already had problems of its own.

Most Filipinos do not know that when the Philippine Revolution ocurred, Spain was just adjusting itself after becomign a Republic then having the Monarchy restored. Internal issues get in the way of handling overseas possessions.

You'd honestly think Spain would care about it's Asian colony when it was having its own problems?

It reminds me of Roman Britain, a province of the Roman Empire which was left to fend for its own against its enemies because the Roman Empire had it's own problems and could care less about some distant province they posses in the British Isles.

Basically: Most former colonies are a reflection of the state of the government of their colonizers.

well in reality it is only a partial part of why we are not doing well. In reality the Philippines under Spanish rule was never that rich, throughout the years kings in Spain have been encourages to give up the island but most didn't since they saw the Philippines as the potential to spread Catholicism in Asia. Ironic that they were the ones who caused their own econ probs in the Philippines. We were already trading with so many nations but instead the Spanish chose to cut that off and just have the Acapulco trade which wasn't really much compared to what the Philippines had. Like I said though we cannot blame them since they have been long gone.

[LazyAzian]

well in reality it is only a partial part of why we are not doing well. In reality the Philippines under Spanish rule was never that rich, throughout the years kings in Spain have been encourages to give up the island but most didn't since they saw the Philippines as the potential to spread Catholicism in Asia. Ironic that they were the ones who caused their own econ probs in the Philippines. We were already trading with so many nations but instead the Spanish chose to cut that off and just have the Acapulco trade which wasn't really much compared to what the Philippines had. Like I said though we cannot blame them since they have been long gone.

Actually the Philippines was quite rich during the Spanish era.

If you only saw Intramuros, Manila and Iloilo during the Spanish period you'd marvel at the European, East Asian and South Asian treasures.

Spanish Philippines, known as "Spanish East Indies" or "Indias Orientales Españolas," traded with China, India, Southeast Asia, etc. It had consuls in Japan, Spain, Mexico and Hong Kong. It traded with India for spices, which was very expensive in Europe, flavours such as Cinnamon was desired.

Much of the wealth remained in Intramuros where the Philippine-born Spaniards and Spanish-Filipinos lived. It did not spread throughout the archipelago.

Manila has a Steel Cathedral, Basilica of San Sebastian, one of the first steel Churches in the world, in which the whole building was pre-built in Europe designed by a French architect and exported to the Philippines!

Intramuros was a treasure, I'd estimate the total cost of it today had every building, object, thing in the area been intact would be around billions of US dollars.

Numerous architectures in Intramuros and Iloilo were designed by Spanish and French architects, many had imported furnitures from Venice, Italy, sculptures and figures of Christian images from China, etc. Many churches had altars which were so ornate it would rival the ones in Europe.

The treasures of the Spanish period was all gone the moment WWII happened and many of these treasures were bombed.

That's not to say inhabitants themselves were rich.

As I said, the Philippines was a fairly wealthy country, many British, French and Dutch merchants even lived in Manila and settled in Luzon and Visayas, marrying the natives.

However the wealth distribution was uneven, much of the wealthy kept the wealth for themselves. But if we added up all the wealth of the wealthy Filipinos it was staggering.

Imagine the upperclass Filipinos, they made up around 10% of the population, had enough wealth to go study in Paris, France and Madrid, Spain, travelling around Germany and Italy?! Being enrolled into Royal Academies, which many Europeans themselves had to recieve scholarship to afford!?

This post has been edited by LazyAzian: Dec 26 2010, 06:35 PM

[islander]

Plenty of Spanish Silver dollars went from Mexico via the Philippines to China. The Silver dollars became Mexican when the Spanish left Mexico. So the Philippines was seeing plenty of Mexican Silver dollars and plenty of silver coins from other independent latin american nations. Problem was that they were not all the same quality. So the Spanish created a mint in the mid 19 century in Manila which turned out Philippines Silver dollars.

Following photo show an 1885 Manila Peseta since they were minted in Manila by the Spanish. Spain stopped using the Peseta when they went to the Euro. But in Puerto Rico which stopped using Spanish money including the Spanish Peseta over 100 years ago has not stopped using the word Peseta. They just started calling the US Quarter a Peseta.



When it comes to Rizal wanting more autonomy from Spain. they did the same thing in Puerto Rico which did get some autonomy. It only lasted a few months and ended with US invasion. Majority of politicians in Cuba wanted nothing to do with autonomy since they wanted independence. Rizal probably wanted to avoid a conflict like the devastating war in Cuba so he first asked for autonomy.


Someone forgot to mention the Philippines-American war. It seems the US entrance into the Philippines was more violent with much losses for the Filipinos. US went into Cuba to so called help them in there fight for independence. But the people in Cuba were winning, it was just a matter of time. Then unfortunately, when the US got a foot in Cuba and pushed the Spanish out they turned Cuba into a US quasi-colony. People of Cuba were not even allowed by US to fly there flag in there capital city for two years. In the end you know what happened there.

Philippines was the same thing. The Philippines would in time have been independent without US help. Some need to remember that many of the Spanish troops in the Philippines were made up of Filipino militia. In time most would have probably changed sides. Read once that Filipino politicians came up with the idea of the Philippines being a US protectorate but that was turned down by the US.

Why did the US give the Philippines its independence after fighting a war decades before to keep them. Remember, the Philippines was large, strategic and many resources. So why give them up. Answer was because the US did not want an influx of Filipinos in the US. They knew the Philippines population was increasing. The Philippines was not Guam or Puerto Rico which had a smaller more manageable population. You can even see it when they made the Philippines a Commonwealth. Only 50 Filipinos a year were allowed to migrate to the US while anyone from the US could migrate to the Philippines. A Filipino State would mean the House of Representatives would be at least 25% Filipino controlled. Do not think the old school of US politicians would go for that.

Jump to after WWII. Read once that the victors of the war decided to rebuild Japan has an industrial nation while leaving most of SE Asia including the Philippines has a supplier of raw resources to Japan. This explains alot.

And for anyone who has LinkTV, they had a program which explains why Latin America was so messed up. This could also explain the problems of the Philippines which is resource rich.

Watch this part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ

Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPa8m07txg&NR=1

Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cJ5IsCt5Q&NR=1

Part four - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRJjP7h4Q4&NR=1

Part five - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&NR=1

Supposedly, the problems the US has today is due to the same things.

This post has been edited by islander: Dec 26 2010, 09:12 PM

[YasukeKomiya]

Plenty of Spanish Silver dollars went from Mexico via the Philippines to China. The Silver dollars became Mexican when the Spanish left Mexico. So the Philippines was seeing plenty of Mexican Silver dollars and plenty of silver coins from other independent latin american nations. Problem was that they were not all the same quality. So the Spanish created a mint in the mid 19 century in Manila which turned out Philippines Silver dollars.

Following photo show an 1885 Manila Peseta since they were minted in Manila by the Spanish. Spain stopped using the Peseta when they went to the Euro. But in Puerto Rico which stopped using Spanish money including the Spanish Peseta over 100 years ago has not stopped using the word Peseta. They just started calling the US Quarter a Peseta.



When it comes to Rizal wanting more autonomy from Spain. they did the same thing in Puerto Rico which did get some autonomy. It only lasted a few months and ended with US invasion. Majority of politicians in Cuba wanted nothing to do with autonomy since they wanted independence. Rizal probably wanted to avoid a conflict like the devastating war in Cuba so he first asked for autonomy.


Someone forgot to mention the Philippines-American war. It seems the US entrance into the Philippines was more violent with much losses for the Filipinos. US went into Cuba to so called help them in there fight for independence. But the people in Cuba were winning, it was just a matter of time. Then unfortunately, when the US got a foot in Cuba and pushed the Spanish out they turned Cuba into a US quasi-colony. People of Cuba were not even allowed by US to fly there flag in there capital city for two years. In the end you know what happened there.

Philippines was the same thing. The Philippines would in time have been independent without US help. Some need to remember that many of the Spanish troops in the Philippines were made up of Filipino militia. In time most would have probably changed sides. Read once that Filipino politicians came up with the idea of the Philippines being a US protectorate but that was turned down by the US.

Why did the US give the Philippines its independence after fighting a war decades before to keep them. Remember, the Philippines was large, strategic and many resources. So why give them up. Answer was because the US did not want an influx of Filipinos in the US. They knew the Philippines population was increasing. The Philippines was not Guam or Puerto Rico which had a smaller more manageable population. You can even see it when they made the Philippines a Commonwealth. Only 50 Filipinos a year were allowed to migrate to the US while anyone from the US could migrate to the Philippines. A Filipino State would mean the House of Representatives would be at least 25% Filipino controlled. Do not think the old school of US politicians would go for that.

Jump to after WWII. Read once that the victors of the war decided to rebuild Japan has an industrial nation while leaving most of SE Asia including the Philippines has a supplier of raw resources to Japan. This explains alot.

And for anyone who has LinkTV, they had a program which explains why Latin America was so messed up. This could also explain the problems of the Philippines which is resource rich.

Watch this part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ

Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPa8m07txg&NR=1

Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cJ5IsCt5Q&NR=1

Part four - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRJjP7h4Q4&NR=1

Part five - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&NR=1

Supposedly, the problems the US has today is due to the same things.

don't get me started on how America screwed over Latin America -_- back in the Cold War they had Latin American economy and even in some cases politics (which was tied to economic interests) in control from the shadows. Whenever some politician would talk about nationalizing resources or other things he would get killed by people (mostly a local) who was trained by the CIA.

[YasukeKomiya]

Actually the Philippines was quite rich during the Spanish era.

If you only saw Intramuros, Manila and Iloilo during the Spanish period you'd marvel at the European, East Asian and South Asian treasures.

Spanish Philippines, known as "Spanish East Indies" or "Indias Orientales Españolas," traded with China, India, Southeast Asia, etc. It had consuls in Japan, Spain, Mexico and Hong Kong. It traded with India for spices, which was very expensive in Europe, flavours such as Cinnamon was desired.

Much of the wealth remained in Intramuros where the Philippine-born Spaniards and Spanish-Filipinos lived. It did not spread throughout the archipelago.

Manila has a Steel Cathedral, Basilica of San Sebastian, one of the first steel Churches in the world, in which the whole building was pre-built in Europe designed by a French architect and exported to the Philippines!

Intramuros was a treasure, I'd estimate the total cost of it today had every building, object, thing in the area been intact would be around billions of US dollars.

Numerous architectures in Intramuros and Iloilo were designed by Spanish and French architects, many had imported furnitures from Venice, Italy, sculptures and figures of Christian images from China, etc. Many churches had altars which were so ornate it would rival the ones in Europe.

The treasures of the Spanish period was all gone the moment WWII happened and many of these treasures were bombed.

That's not to say inhabitants themselves were rich.

As I said, the Philippines was a fairly wealthy country, many British, French and Dutch merchants even lived in Manila and settled in Luzon and Visayas, marrying the natives.

However the wealth distribution was uneven, much of the wealthy kept the wealth for themselves. But if we added up all the wealth of the wealthy Filipinos it was staggering.

Imagine the upperclass Filipinos, they made up around 10% of the population, had enough wealth to go study in Paris, France and Madrid, Spain, travelling around Germany and Italy?! Being enrolled into Royal Academies, which many Europeans themselves had to recieve scholarship to afford!?

I never heard of this, some Spanish guy told me in general the Philippines wasn't that wealthy of a colony. Sure there probably were treasures but trade with other nations was mostly cut off. China was allowed trade but it heavily regulated since the Spanish didn't trust the Chinese (don't blame them, the Chinese would have blown them out of the water in business). There was even a time when there were more Chinese in Manila then Spaniards and revolts broke out only for them to be stamped out and heavier restrictions were put on the Chinese (later to be lifted). Personally it was a good thing the Spaniards never found out how wrong they were when it came to the Philippines resources. Also the Filipinos in who went to Europe to study got in cause there Asian =D hahaha jk well back then Filipino refered to a Spaniard born in the Philippines but im pretty sure there were some natives and mestizos who went to Europe (probably beating them cause there Asian XP once again kidding)

[LazyAzian]

I never heard of this, some Spanish guy told me in general the Philippines wasn't that wealthy of a colony. Sure there probably were treasures but trade with other nations was mostly cut off. China was allowed trade but it heavily regulated since the Spanish didn't trust the Chinese (don't blame them, the Chinese would have blown them out of the water in business). There was even a time when there were more Chinese in Manila then Spaniards and revolts broke out only for them to be stamped out and heavier restrictions were put on the Chinese (later to be lifted). Personally it was a good thing the Spaniards never found out how wrong they were when it came to the Philippines resources. Also the Filipinos in who went to Europe to study got in cause there Asian =D hahaha jk well back then Filipino refered to a Spaniard born in the Philippines but im pretty sure there were some natives and mestizos who went to Europe (probably beating them cause there Asian XP once again kidding)

When I said Filipino I am using it to refer to the Natives.

There were already wealthy native Filipinos that studied in Europe.

Juan Luna for example studied in the Royal Academy of Arts in Madrid.

Also the Philippines did trade with countries like Hong Kong, Singapore, India and China.

It might have been minimal trading but either way it would have brought lots of money.

For one thing, the travel from Philippines to Mexico and then Spain took almost a whole year.

A simple Manton de Manila, originally from China, traded in the Philippines, shipped to Mexico, then traded, then shipped to Spain would've cost tons of money.

The goods traded from the Philippines were considered luxury items in Mexico and Spain, they were hard to get, they came from Asian countries which were very far.

Think of it as like in eBay, it's not the item itself that is expensive, it's the shipping fee!

As I said, imagine that cathedral, shipped all the way from Europe to the philippines, how much would it have costed? Staggering amounts. Only a fairly well off colony would've been able to fund such things.

The Spaniards underestimated the natural resources in the Philippines, they were much more focused on the aspect of having a posession in Asia where they can trade with other Asian countries.