S'pore will not renew one water agreement with M'sia which exp Options

[pericles]

SINGAPORE: Singapore will not need to renew one water agreement with Malaysia which expires next year.

That's because Singapore has ramped up with local water supply with new reservoirs, NEWater and desalinated water.

Environment and Water Resources Minister Yaacob Ibrahim said Singapore will build a second desalination plant over the next few years to ensure reliability in water supply.

Environment & Water Resources Minister, Dr Yaacob Ibrahim, said: "As the production of NEWater and desalinated water are independent of rainfall, they can be used to supplement water stocks in an extended dry spell like the one experienced in February this year, which was the driest February on record." - CNA/vm

[sgcommoner]

For every 1000 gallons of water:
Singapore pays 3 sen for the raw water from Malaysia
Singapore pays RM2.40 to treat this water
Malaysia pays 50 sen to buy this treated water from Singapore
Malaysia sells this treated water at RM3.95 to Johor residents

Singapore pays 3 sen for raw water, but the real cost to us for raw water is much higher because we pay for all the construction costs to build the reservoirs, dams and pipeworks to bring the water to Singapore.

On the other hand, Malaysia makes money from the treated water they buy from us. Each day, Malaysia buys 37 million gallons of treated water. This means that we lose to Malaysia RM70,000 a day for treated water, and Johor makes a profit of RM128,000 every day by selling treated water bought cheaply from us. That's a profit of RM47 million each year!

[yiming2000]

For every 1000 gallons of water:
Singapore pays 3 sen for the raw water from Malaysia
Singapore pays RM2.40 to treat this water
Malaysia pays 50 sen to buy this treated water from Singapore
Malaysia sells this treated water at RM3.95 to Johor residents

Singapore pays 3 sen for raw water, but the real cost to us for raw water is much higher because we pay for all the construction costs to build the reservoirs, dams and pipeworks to bring the water to Singapore.

On the other hand, Malaysia makes money from the treated water they buy from us. Each day, Malaysia buys 37 million gallons of treated water. This means that we lose to Malaysia RM70,000 a day for treated water, and Johor makes a profit of RM128,000 every day by selling treated water bought cheaply from us. That's a profit of RM47 million each year!

I doubt that shrewd Singapore would be in any deal that isn't favorable to Singapore. If she doesn't want anymore Malaysian water, my guess its that it isn't worthwhile to her.

It occurred to me that the water I drink doesn't come from the tap. I only drink bottled mineral water. This is very common. Malaysian water bottlers would gladly sell their products to Singapore at Malaysian market prices. Singaporeans could easily afford it at current exchange rates. Then, there are supplies from Indonesia too at even cheaper prices. Water for other needs, apart from for drinking, could come from desalinating sea water or recycling. So, I don't think Singapore is in any pickle even if, eventually, she completely stops buying raw water from Malaysia.

[sgcommoner]

I doubt that shrewd Singapore would be in any deal that isn't favorable to Singapore. If she doesn't want anymore Malaysian water, my guess its that it isn't worthwhile to her.

It occurred to me that the water I drink doesn't come from the tap. I only drink bottled mineral water. This is very common. Malaysian water bottlers would gladly sell their products to Singapore at Malaysian market prices. Singaporeans could easily afford it at current exchange rates. Then, there are supplies from Indonesia too at even cheaper prices. Water for other needs, apart from for drinking, could come from desalinating sea water or recycling. So, I don't think Singapore is in any pickle even if, eventually, she completely stops buying raw water from Malaysia.

To : yiming2000

You do not sound like Malaysian. There were proposal to Indonesia to buy raw water from Indonesia just after the financial crisis(1997). Indonesia wanted very hugh loan with no detail on where the loan would spent on. Malaysia finally agreed on the water price with Singapore on 2002. But some guys in Malaysia were very angry and wanted more. Agreement fallout. Sg move on to self sufficient in water supply.

Singaporean are brought up with relentless threats from Malaysia like cutting off the water supply and so forth.

Malaysian did not know that Johore water supplies to Johore are in fact subsided by Sg. On 2005, I was a little surprised that a foreigner in Malaysia told me that he cannot find Newater in bottled form while in Singapore. I later realised that he actually learned from his Malaysian counter part that Newater is FAKE ! Just an illusion as a bargaining chip. Even after many Malaysian official and reporters had visited both Newater and desalination plant. Such facilities is a MUST VISIT by Malaysian official and reporters. Yet by 2009, there are still many Malaysian did not know the water supply development in Sg.

The 2nd water contract allow Sg to buy more water from Malaysia. If the 1st contract expire (2011), I have no idea if this 2nd contract can be in force.

Many in Sg hope there can be a clean break.

[yiming2000]

To : yiming2000

You do not sound like Malaysian. There were proposal to Indonesia to buy raw water from Indonesia just after the financial crisis(1997). Indonesia wanted very hugh loan with no detail on where the loan would spent on. Malaysia finally agreed on the water price with Singapore on 2002. But some guys in Malaysia were very angry and wanted more. Agreement fallout. Sg move on to self sufficient in water supply.

Singaporean are brought up with relentless threats from Malaysia like cutting off the water supply and so forth.

Malaysian did not know that Johore water supplies to Johore are in fact subsided by Sg. On 2005, I was a little surprised that a foreigner in Malaysia told me that he cannot find Newater in bottled form while in Singapore. I later realised that he actually learned from his Malaysian counter part that Newater is FAKE ! Just an illusion as a bargaining chip. Even after many Malaysian official and reporters had visited both Newater and desalination plant. Such facilities is a MUST VISIT by Malaysian official and reporters. Yet by 2009, there are still many Malaysian did not know the water supply development in Sg.

The 2nd water contract allow Sg to buy more water from Malaysia. If the 1st contract expire (2011), I have no idea if this 2nd contract can be in force.

Many in Sg hope there can be a clean break.

Apparently, Singapore can now meet 30% of its water needs. It is on target to meet 100% of those needs by 2060 when all water contracts with Malaysia terminate. Knowing Singapore, I am sure she has provisions in place to cover the possibility of any sudden unilateral shutting off the water before the agreed deadline.

A clean break is the only way out, unfortunately. Sharing of God-given resources is not a human trait regardless of our holier-than thou religious pretensions in their myriad forms. The only God-given resource that Singaporeans can bank on is the ability to survive in the face of dwindling resources.

Human population growth demands sustainable lifestyles. This is recognized in all first-world societies where resource conservation, which includes recyling, is the way of life. It is good that Singapore is responding intelligently to the water issue with creativeness and innovative technology. It is definitely the best way out because it will pay dividends far beyond merely finding an alternative to Malaysian water.

Raw water from rivers and catchment reservoirs has to be treated and it isn't necessarily all that cheaper or easier than desalination or whatever Newater is doing. At any rate, Singaporeans should not take the lazy path and sqabble with anyone over natural resources. A highly productive society - and this is Singapore's goal - will always be able to pay for anything it needs. In a loveless world, it is the buffoons that end up in the ditch - everytime.

[sgcommoner]

Apparently, Singapore can now meet 30% of its water needs. It is on target to meet 100% of those needs by 2060 when all water contracts with Malaysia terminate. Knowing Singapore, I am sure she has provisions in place to cover the possibility of any sudden unilateral shutting off the water before the agreed deadline.

A clean break is the only way out, unfortunately. Sharing of God-given resources is not a human trait regardless of our holier-than thou religious pretensions in their myriad forms. The only God-given resource that Singaporeans can bank on is the ability to survive in the face of dwindling resources.

Human population growth demands sustainable lifestyles. This is recognized in all first-world societies where resource conservation, which includes recyling, is the way of life. It is good that Singapore is responding intelligently to the water issue with creativeness and innovative technology. It is definitely the best way out because it will pay dividends far beyond merely finding an alternative to Malaysian water.

Raw water from rivers and catchment reservoirs has to be treated and it isn't necessarily all that cheaper or easier than desalination or whatever Newater is doing. At any rate, Singaporeans should not take the lazy path and sqabble with anyone over natural resources. A highly productive society - and this is Singapore's goal - will always be able to pay for anything it needs. In a loveless world, it is the buffoons that end up in the ditch - everytime.

It was 40 % of water supply from Malaysia. We are self sufficient now. We have no idea if we must buy and still subside Johore' water treatment after 2011. We hope not.

Few of the Johore river had dried up permanently. Other state besides river drying up, they have contamination in river where their water treatment plant cannot treat contaminated water. And then shut down permanently. Malaysia do not have incinerator plant like Sg to burn garbage. Garbage are thrown into river. If river get clogged, floods occur. Malaysia will blame Sg for land reclaim in northern Sg.

In fact, Malaysia may face water shortage by their own doing.

[yiming2000]

It was 40 % of water supply from Malaysia. We are self sufficient now. We have no idea if we must buy and still subside Johore' water treatment after 2011. We hope not.

Few of the Johore river had dried up permanently. Other state besides river drying up, they have contamination in river where their water treatment plant cannot treat contaminated water. And then shut down permanently. Malaysia do not have incinerator plant like Sg to burn garbage. Garbage are thrown into river. If river get clogged, floods occur. Malaysia will blame Sg for land reclaim in northern Sg.

In fact, Malaysia may face water shortage by their own doing.

Singapore subsidizes nobody, not even Singaporeans who don't pull up their socks and prefer to sit on their butts for a living. When the time comes to shut down the water treatment plants that feed Johore, Singapore will do it with no remorse. I'll bet the Malaysian Goverment is not even thinking about that eventuality let alone prepare for it. God only help those who help themselves like Singaporeans who, thankfully, can see not only further than their noses but also around corners, and always look 50 years ahead.

Frugality is the new cool - in first-world societies anyway. This is why Singapore's water conservation and management savvy will position Singaporeans well in marketing this technology that will be essential to highly urbanized societies worldwide.

Singaporeans incinerate garbage. Malaysians prefer to strew it all over the place. Each culture has it's own way to deal with garbage. Where I live, everyone has more than one garbage bin, one of which is meant for recycling stuff we throw away. Once upon a time you wouldn't be able to tell the behavorial difference between Singaporeans and Malaysians. They all threw garbage and spit all over the place. What happened? What caused the cultural change?

[sgcommoner]

Singapore subsidizes nobody, not even Singaporeans who don't pull up their socks and prefer to sit on their butts for a living. When the time comes to shut down the water treatment plants that feed Johore, Singapore will do it with no remorse. I'll bet the Malaysian Goverment is not even thinking about that eventuality let alone prepare for it. God only help those who help themselves like Singaporeans who, thankfully, can see not only further than their noses but also around corners, and always look 50 years ahead.

Frugality is the new cool - in first-world societies anyway. This is why Singapore's water conservation and management savvy will position Singaporeans well in marketing this technology that will be essential to highly urbanized societies worldwide.

Singaporeans incinerate garbage. Malaysians prefer to strew it all over the place. Each culture has it's own way to deal with garbage. Where I live, everyone has more than one garbage bin, one of which is meant for recycling stuff we throw away. Once upon a time you wouldn't be able to tell the behavorial difference between Singaporeans and Malaysians. They all threw garbage and spit all over the place. What happened? What caused the cultural change?

To : yiming2000

The water treatment cost was subsidised by Sg to Malaysia Johore. Since day one. Malaysian were never told. As usual.

Sound like you live in countries like Japan.

The social behaviour changes were changed by an iron fist. Where in most cases, it is good.

Certain number of people migrated away from Sg during the 70s and 80s. But many returned.

[yiming2000]

To : yiming2000

The water treatment cost was subsidised by Sg to Malaysia Johore. Since day one. Malaysian were never told. As usual.

Sound like you live in countries like Japan.

The social behaviour changes were changed by an iron fist. Where in most cases, it is good.

Certain number of people migrated away from Sg during the 70s and 80s. But many returned.

In which case, in your opinion, is the iron fist not good? The iron fist has kept Singapore viable, strong and free.
Iron fist won't be around much longer. Will Singaporeans revert to being like Malaysiana after iron fist is gone?
What do you think?

[sgcommoner]

In which case, in your opinion, is the iron fist not good? The iron fist has kept Singapore viable, strong and free.
Iron fist won't be around much longer. Will Singaporeans revert to being like Malaysiana after iron fist is gone?
What do you think?

Iron fist is good, but his subordinate that follow up on his policy is no good. Example the CPF withdrawal. No full withdrawal, will pass down to next generation. My opinion, the next generation cannot draw out the money as well.
Yes, will not be around for long. Sg will not revert to be like Malaysia. It will be as it is now.

[yiming2000]

Iron fist is good, but his subordinate that follow up on his policy is no good. Example the CPF withdrawal. No full withdrawal, will pass down to next generation. My opinion, the next generation cannot draw out the money as well.
Yes, will not be around for long. Sg will not revert to be like Malaysia. It will be as it is now.

No full withdrawal? That would be cheating. It doesn't sound like Iron Fist's style of goverment. I will google for facts about this CPF ruling.

I think you are right about Singaporeans staying different from Malaysians after Iron Fist is gone. The Malaysian Chinese has become a different kind of animal.

[tangawizi]

How different is msian chinese from sg ?

[sgcommoner]

No full withdrawal? That would be cheating. It doesn't sound like Iron Fist's style of goverment. I will google for facts about this CPF ruling.

I think you are right about Singaporeans staying different from Malaysians after Iron Fist is gone. The Malaysian Chinese has become a different kind of animal.

Yes, no more full withdrawal at age 55. Else many Ah Pek got cheated (joint bank account is 1 eg.) by those China woman. Certain number of "investor" even use CPF as an indemnity. When he/her reach 55, he/she can withdraw the money to pay his/her debt. Hospital would want a good amount from patient's CPF. Private housing and etc .....

Iron fist is not in favour of the casino. He would like to have diplomatic relationship with neighbouring countries to buy water, food, natural gas. Logically, with such huge and regular purchase, both country will benefit. Unfortunately, these countries view that as a life line where Sg could be threaten if supply stop.

[sgcommoner]

How different is msian chinese from sg ?

To : tangwizi

Chinese Malaysian have certain amount of Malay Malaysian mentality in them.

Eg. 1. Chinese Malaysian view that without Chinese Malaysian, Sg would not have progress or sucessful if Chinese Malaysian did not take up job in Sg.

2. Chinese Malaysian view that their Chinese language standard is much higher than Sg.

3. Chinese Malaysian view that if there is no Sg, Malaysia would have done better.

4. Chinese Malaysian view that Sg sucess owed it to Malaysia. Malaysia provide to Sg. But no answer even when ask "provide what" ?

5. Chinese Malaysian view that their Hawker food is 10 times better than Sg.

[Suione]

To : tangwizi

Chinese Malaysian have certain amount of Malay Malaysian mentality in them.

Eg. 1. Chinese Malaysian view that without Chinese Malaysian, Sg would not have progress or sucessful if Chinese Malaysian did not take up job in Sg.

2. Chinese Malaysian view that their Chinese language standard is much higher than Sg.

3. Chinese Malaysian view that if there is no Sg, Malaysia would have done better.

4. Chinese Malaysian view that Sg sucess owed it to Malaysia. Malaysia provide to Sg. But no answer even when ask "provide what" ?

5. Chinese Malaysian view that their Hawker food is 10 times better than Sg.

hehehe, maybe you can start a new thread on Chinese Malaysian, and similarly one in the S'pore side on Chinese S'porean. That should be fun

[tangawizi]

hahaha... are u chinese malaysian???

[yiming2000]

Yes, no more full withdrawal at age 55. Else many Ah Pek got cheated (joint bank account is 1 eg.) by those China woman. Certain number of "investor" even use CPF as an indemnity. When he/her reach 55, he/she can withdraw the money to pay his/her debt. Hospital would want a good amount from patient's CPF. Private housing and etc .....

Iron fist is not in favour of the casino. He would like to have diplomatic relationship with neighbouring countries to buy water, food, natural gas. Logically, with such huge and regular purchase, both country will benefit. Unfortunately, these countries view that as a life line where Sg could be threaten if supply stop.

Iron Fist not in favor of casinos? I didn't know that. I thought that they were his idea. I am glad it is not true. I have an image of Iron Fist as a world-class wise man. Gambling doesn't sound like a good move but what do I know. I must say that the F1 night racing was a brilliant idea. I really hope Singapore won't go down the drain after Iron Fist is gone. In Chinese culture, when grandpa tycoon is gone, all the grandpunks squander off the family fortune. As the Chinese would say, a family's wealth cannot last three generations. Are you guys worried about the future of Singapore?

Anyway, if Singaporeans stay smart and sharp like Iron Fist, neigbouring countries will never be a threat. In fact they will look up to Singapore as an economic hub. There is no substitution for brain power. At the poker table, the sharpest guy always gets the pot.

[sgcommoner]

hahaha... are u chinese malaysian???

True blue Singaporean

[sgcommoner]

Iron Fist not in favor of casinos? I didn't know that. I thought that they were his idea. I am glad it is not true. I have an image of Iron Fist as a world-class wise man. Gambling doesn't sound like a good move but what do I know. I must say that the F1 night racing was a brilliant idea. I really hope Singapore won't go down the drain after Iron Fist is gone. In Chinese culture, when grandpa tycoon is gone, all the grandpunks squander off the family fortune. As the Chinese would say, a family's wealth cannot last three generations. Are you guys worried about the future of Singapore?

Anyway, if Singaporeans stay smart and sharp like Iron Fist, neigbouring countries will never be a threat. In fact they will look up to Singapore as an economic hub. There is no substitution for brain power. At the poker table, the sharpest guy always gets the pot.

Not in favour because some gambler may wrack their own family. But the casinos will bring in revenue for Sg. F1, sports school and etc. are not LKY's idea. He give advice only.
Sg will not go down the drain with the peril of LKY. Sg' political foundation is good.

[yiming2000]

Not in favour because some gambler may wrack their own family. But the casinos will bring in revenue for Sg. F1, sports school and etc. are not LKY's idea. He give advice only.
Sg will not go down the drain with the peril of LKY. Sg' political foundation is good.

Singapore's political foundation can be unravelled by next generation Singaporeans after LKY is gone. LKY has voiced his concern about this. He is more worried about Singapore imploding from within than threats from inferior neighbouring countries. I have met young twenty or thirty year-olds Singaporeans who admire LKY, aware that they are blessed to be Singaporeans and share LKY's aspirations for Singapore. But LKY said that is not good enough for the survival of Singapore. LKY said Singaporeans must have fierce passion and prepared to give up their lives like him to fight for Singapore's continued success and survival. There are also other young Singaporeans who are unhappy with Iron Fist and feel that they have no say in the running of Singapore. I wonder why they feel that way. If I were a Singaporean and I have fierce passion for Singapore's success, wouldn't I be welcomed by the PAP and allowed to contribute and work for a better and more secure future for all Singaporeans?

I understand things are not all that simple. There are Singaporeans who may not want the PAP way.