Origins of Japanese, article suggests modern japanese are descended from koguryo's sett Options

[TomorrowNeverKno...]

its amazing how much koreans want to be related to the japanese and even claim that they are from european descent.

[korean_turtle87]

its amazing how much koreans want to be related to the japanese and even claim that they are from european descent.

o_O? koreans are of mongolian descent. but w/e but i don't really like being related to the japanese...

[Jarhier]

so where did mongol came from..? O_o

[sweetricecake]

the japanese emperor ancestry who was considered deity were originally Korean. the people that japanese literally worshipped were all Korean... such as emperor's past lineage, mas oyama, rikidozan

Typical LOW SELF-ESTEEM Koreans passionately pursue sole genetic tie to Japanese race who despices Koreans in return.

Koreans past and present WORSHIP Chinese ancestor Confucius.

Japanese SMARTLY developed own unique culture,now has many CULTURAL ATTRACTIONS fascinate foreign visitors.Unlike lowly Koreans relied on Chinese much of everything from writing to civil institutions except KIMCHI.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

mmm, this thread is not going to go well...but for real, does anyone actually care where the japanese came from? lol...dont lie now.

[sweetricecake]

mmm, this thread is not going to go well...but for real, does anyone actually care where the japanese came from? lol...dont lie now.

NOT Japanese evidently .....OVER-INFLATED new found arrogant lowly young generation Koreans very much imagine "some sort " of special blood tie to Japanese they loath for centuries as pass down generation to generation oral tradition.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

uhhh...okay...and why should you care? lol

[sweetricecake]

uhhh...okay...and why should you care? lol

It was merely an honest answer to your question.

Japanese and Chinese DON'T CARE .... it's the LOW SELF-ESTEEM Koreans pursue Japanese kinship or Mongol origin.

[CJK]

low esteemed koreans?

it is fact that koreans, mongolians, japanese and other altaic/tungustics are of similar stock and share many similar traits.

What's sad is that I see chinese on AF claiming koreans and japanese came from china when there is no evidence of that at all.

[korean_turtle87]

low esteemed koreans?

it is fact that koreans, mongolians, japanese and other altaic/tungustics are of similar stock and share many similar traits.

What's sad is that I see chinese on AF claiming koreans and japanese came from china when there is no evidence of that at all.

ya i have a friend who said that. but its only true culturally

[Mid-Night_Sun]

low esteemed koreans?

it is fact that koreans, mongolians, japanese and other altaic/tungustics are of similar stock and share many similar traits.

What's sad is that I see chinese on AF claiming koreans and japanese came from china when there is no evidence of that at all.

really? because you are just as insecure and grasping at thin threads also. this "fact" you speak of is not recognized by anyone. trust me, japanese dont care to be related to koreans or vice versa. same with mongols that arent already Chinese. (outer mongolia)

also, real Chinese only really care about Chinese. they are probably just trying to piss you off, and you walk right into it. same with the santa klaws guy.

the problem is you guys actually somehow got in your heads "defending" your ethnicity here actually means something LOL. at this point, AF has seriously infected your minds deeply and you should take a break.

[~Theta~]

It was merely an honest answer to your question.

Japanese and Chinese DON'T CARE .... it's the LOW SELF-ESTEEM Koreans pursue Japanese kinship or Mongol origin.

Uh, what's your ethnicity, may I ask?

[bigboy]

its amazing how much koreans want to be related to the japanese and even claim that they are from european descent.

yeah, but its amazing how almost every article i read about japanese origings, korea is always involved somewhere. i dont know why, but it doesnt make sense

yeah, sometimes im like man why do koreans keep saying japan intermixed with koreans. its just ridiculously absurd. how the hell can someone say that? korea had no relations with japan ever. even though korea is like one tippy toe footstep away from japan. there is no way in the world that its possible that korea wouldve thought to cross over and check things out. that just isnt logical, who in the right mind would think about stepping on land that is 2 inches away from them. its more likely that china would cross over to japan than korea. its more likely that the chinese entered through korea and traveled thousands of miles and somehow ended up in japan rather than koreans simply crossing over with one step to japan. it is just ludicrous how koreans think koreans settled in japan. just cuz korea is the closest to japan than any other nation in the world, doesnt mean that koreans are the most likely people to have went to japan.

This post has been edited by bigboy: Mar 27 2006, 07:46 PM

[roses]

During the early Yayoi era, probably the language of South Koreans and our proto-Japanese were identical. But as time went by, the language on the island started to be influenced by the phonetics of native islanders. Island people didn't have consonant ending syllables so they couldn't hear them clearly. Susumu Oono show many examples to corresponding words.


mil -> midu (water)
nunmil -> namida (tear)
nat -> nata (hatchet)
pat -> pata (farm)
kot -> kusi (spit)
sal -> sa (arrow) -- /sa/ of /ikusa/
kama = kama (sickle)
mail -> mura (village)
(Bart mentioned here that the evidence is getting pretty strong that early Korean didn't have consonant-final syllables either.)

Between Ancient Korean and Ancient Japanese, over 20 phonetical corresponding rules were found:
k-k, s-s, s-ch, t-t, n-n, P(F)-p, m-m, s.z-r.l, etc.

The basic vocabulary of body part names from Korea didn't replace Japanese words, but it was transformed into verbs, related to the part of body originally in ancient Korean.


ip (mouth) -> ipu (to say)
ko (nose) -> kagu (to smell)
kui (ear) -> kiku (to hear)
al (egg) -> aru (to be born), etc.
(examples are from "Origin of the Japanese Language" by Susumu Oono)

interesting post.

This post has been edited by roses: Mar 27 2006, 07:49 PM

[出家人]

yeah, i read everywhere about japanese language, that koguryo language is the most accurate way to compare with the japanese language.

keep in mind that there were several kingdoms in korea long time ago. the three biggest are known as baekche, shilla, and koguryo. they all speaked korean, but each kingdom spoke a different version of korean, so basically it was like different languages for each kingdom. modern korean was originated from shilla, and it is said that koguryo language has evolved into japanese.

found this part somewhere, comparing old korean languages and japanese, i have no idea if this actually proves anything, but maybe it does. you could see words that got evolved over time, im just puttin it up cuz its interesting
i also read that shinto was originated from korean shamanism. there was a woman named Amaderasu who portrayed in a shaman's dress. It is believed that she was in fact a Korean shaman named Himiko who ruled a tribe in the 4th Century AD, some 1,000 years later than the Japanese myth claims. She started Shinto religion based on shamanism of Korea. not sure about this one though. not sure if its true.

I read about Himiko in the Wei Chronicles of SanGuoZhi. It didn't mention anything about her being Corean. Where do you get you info from?

Also, I heard the first documented Korean kingdom was not founded by a Korean.

heres a translated part of Japan from SanGuoZhi

JAPAN IN THE WEI DYNASTIC HISTORY

Japan was recorded in Chinese dynastic histories on different occasions. The first contact Japan had with China occurred in 57 A.D. when a mission was sent to the court of the Later Han dynasty. A tribute mission was again sent in 107 A.D. and southern dynastic histories give 13 entries for “five Japanese kings?between 413 and 502 A.D.
Of all the Chinese records, the description appearing in the Wei chih (History of Wei) is most thorough, giving a contemporary account of history, geography, and the beliefs and customs of the Japanese people. The Kingdom of Wei existed between 220 and 265 A.D. and its history was compiled about 297 A.D. The existence of wet-rice cultivation and of sericulture is clearly indicated in the excerpts reproduced below. The use of iron as described ?important both for cultivation and for warfare ?is consistent with archaeological evidence available for the later Yayoi period.
As to the political structure of the country of Wa, rejection of men rulers in favor of a female seems to indicate a widespread practice of shamanism. The queen, Pimiko, obviously served as a medium as did her successor Iyo. Only through a form of witchcraft was the country able to maintain a semblance of unity. Note also that there was an attempt to gain assistance from the Wei officials. The use of animal bones for divination is supported by archaeological evidence. The purification rites described in the Wei history are probably not confined to the period after funeral services. Misogi, or water purification, is one of the important Shinto rituals which survives today in a diff'erent form ?the Japanese love for bathing, especially in hot springs.

4
From the History of Wei' ' The people of Wa make their abode in the
mountainous islands located in the middle of the ocean to the southeast of the Taifang prefecture.' ?Formerly there were more than one hundred communities. During the Han dynasty their envoys appeared in the court. Today, thirty of their communities maintain communication with us through their envoys....
All men, old or young, are covered by tattoos. Japanese fishers revel in diving to catch fish and shell-fish. Tattoos are said to drive away large fish and water predators. They are considered an ornament. Tottoos differ from community to community. Some place tattoos on the left, and others on the right, some place large ones and others small ones. Tattoos also differ in accordance with the social positions.... Men allow their hair to cover both of their ears and wear head-bands. They wear loin cloth wrapped around their bodies and seldom use stitches. Women gather their hair at the ends and tie in a knot and then pin it to the top of their heads. They make their clothes in one piece, and cut an opening in the center for their heads. They plant wet-field rice, China-grass (ramie), and mulberry trees. They raise cocoons and reel the silk off the cocoons. They produce clothing made of China-grass, of coarse silk, and of cotton. In their land, there are no cows, horses, tigers, leopards, sheep or swan. They fight with halberds, shields and wooden bows. The lower inflection of their bows is shorter, and the upper inflection longer. Their arrows are made of bamboo and iron and bone points make up the arrowhead....
The land of Wa is warm and mild. The people eat raw vegetables and go about barefoot in winter as in summer. They live in houses. Father and mother, older and younger sleep separately. They paint their bodies with vermilion and scarlet, just as the Chinese apply powder. They serve food on bowl-shaped stemware (takatsuki), and eat with their fingers. When a person dies, he is placed in a coffin (which is buried directly in the grave) without an outer protective layer. The grave is then covered with earth to make a mound. When death occurs, the family observes mourning for more than ten days, during which period no meat is eaten. The head mourner wails and cries, while others sing, dance and drink liquor (probably sake, the Japanese rice wine). When the funeral is over, the entire family goes into the water to cleanse themselves in a manner similar to the Chinese in their rites of purification.
When they travel across the sea to come to China, they always select a man who does not comb his hair, does not rid himself of fleas, keeps his clothes soiled with dirt, does not eat meat, and does not lie with women. He behaves like a mourner, and is called a “keeper of taboos.??If the voyage is concluded with good fortune, every one lavishes on him slaves and treasures. If someone gets ill, or if there is a mishap, they kill him immediately, saying that he was not conscientious in observing the taboos....
When they undertake an activity or a journey and cannot reach a consensus, they bake animal bones to divine and tell good or bad fortunes. They first announce the object of their divination, and in their manner of speech, they are similar to the Chinese tortoise shell divination. They examine the cracks on the bone made by the fire to tell the fortune.
In their meetings and daily living, there is no distinction between father and son, or between men and women. People enjoy liquor. In their worship, the high-echelon men simply clap their hands instead of bowing in the kneeled position. They live long, some reaching one hundred years of age, and others to eighty or ninety years. Normally, men of high echelon have four or five wives, and the plebians may have two or three. Women are chaste and not given to jealousy. They do not engage in thievery, and there is very little litigation. When the law is violated, the light offender loses his wife and children by confiscation, and the grave offender has his household and kinsmen exterminated. There are class distinctions within the nobility and the base, and some are vassals of others. There are mansions and granaries erected for the purpose of collecting taxes. Each community has a market place where commodities are exchanged under the supervision of an official of Wa....
When plebians meet the high-echelon men on the road, they withdraw to the grassy area (side of the road) hesitantly. When they speak or are spoken to, they either crouch or kneel with both hands on the ground to show their respect. When responding they say “aye,?which corresponds to our affirmative “yes.

http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~gwang/id97.htm

This post has been edited by 出家人: Mar 27 2006, 08:52 PM

[Musashino]

NOT Japanese evidently .....OVER-INFLATED new found arrogant lowly young generation Koreans very much imagine "some sort " of special blood tie to Japanese they loath for centuries as pass down generation to generation oral tradition.

Sad, but true. Generally, many Koreans seem to be fascinated *coughobsessedcough* with launching PR campaigns (mostly through the internet) to stamp in some sort of racial superiority over the Japanese. And it seems that one of the most common ways to go about this is tying past Korean kingdoms as the sole ancestors/blood line of the Japanese.

I don't understand what benefit doing this will have for the Koreans. Just because there may have been connections between past Koreans and Japanese, there's little doubt that the biggest influence in Japanese culture comes from China. In fact, it's likely that most of the "Korean influence" would've been filtered through from China in the first place.

This post has been edited by Musashino: Mar 28 2006, 02:09 AM

[Kay Dis Nine]

Sad, but true. Generally, many Koreans seem to be fascinated *coughobsessedcough* with launching PR campaigns (mostly through the internet) to stamp in some sort of racial superiority over the Japanese. And it seems that one of the most common ways to go about this is tying past Korean kingdoms as the sole ancestors/blood line of the Japanese.

I don't understand what benefit doing this will have for the Koreans. Just because there may have been connections between past Koreans and Japanese, there's little doubt that the biggest influence in Japanese culture comes from China. In fact, it's likely that most of the "Korean influence" would've been filtered through from China in the first place.

Now arn't you doing the same thing? Why does it upset you that Korea may have been connections between Korea and Japan? Fine, China had the bigger influence on Japan if that makes you satisfied. The man's just showing some interesting documentaries.

And that whole internet war was sparked by a Japanese flash-movie that claimed Japan made the foundations of ancient Korea. Never-ending propaganda flash-movies can be found around naver and magga.

[korean_turtle87]

And that whole internet war was sparked by a Japanese flash-movie that claimed Japan made the foundations of ancient Korea. Never-ending propaganda flash-movies can be found around naver and magga.

do you have a link to this? i wanna check it out

[MasterZen]

Genetically related or not, it still didn't stop the Japanese from colonizing Korea and attempting to wipe out the entire culture and civilization. It goes to show how little genetic relations really mean in this world.

[Jarhier]

gathered info from some of old chats. better image than that stick drawing i guess



ag - presented in Japanese by around 50% concentration. Over 60% in Ainu and 40% in Northern Han.
ab3st - Presented in Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Ainu, and Eskimos.
afb1b3 - Constitute most of the Thailand population and even more in Borneo.
axg - Presented in all Asians, most people, little or none in black and white.
fb1b3 - White
fb1c - n/a
ab1c - Black
ab1b3 - Central Africa and black.
ab3s - n/a

what it means