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[Laoism]

Tai accent similarity

Shan (Burma) - Dai (Yunnan) - Lanna (Northern Thai)

Northern Lao - Central Thai

Southern Lao - Northeastern Thai (Isan)

Southern Thai seems to be very unique cuz they speak very fast.

How about tape yourself speaking Thai and have none Thai speaking people compare it with Khmer language see if they notice any different...

This post has been edited by Laoism: May 12 2009, 07:48 PM

[Laoism]

Pardon me, what the hell is Loangkoak.

Its one of Tai Kadai original words and you don't know what it mean and/but consider yourself related to Tai people?

[Anouvong]

How about tape yourself speaking Thai and have none Thai speaking people compare it with Khmer language see if they notice any different...

Buc Fake Isan, If you are real Isan you will know that Khmer and Central Thai sound different. You can't assume Thai sounds much similar to Khmer because of Khmer loan words and the "rolled R"

Central Thai has R but it is "tapped R" not "trilled R". I feel "trilled R" sound a bit funny but "tapped R" sounds beautiful and "L" is the hard sound comparing to "tapped R". So I prefer speak my Thai-accented English with "tapped R" not "trilled R" and not "American rolled R" too, American rolled R sounds ugly to me. If you don't know what I am talking about, go learn Italian

Everyday life, Thai ppl simply drop "tapped R" to "L", So it's stupid wrong if some Lao here think that Thai ppl cannot understand Lao due to Lao ppl merges R to L (or H).
"R" plays big roll in official speaking/conversation like in TV, movies, drama, songs. you can't expect "Central Thai" speaks like what you hear in drama or music. got it? buc fake Isan

This post has been edited by Anouvong: May 12 2009, 10:33 PM

[Savan]

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This post has been edited by Savan: Aug 22 2012, 08:58 PM

[TeeNoi]

Its one of Tai Kadai original words and you don't know what it mean and/but consider yourself related to Tai people?

I never consider myself related to Tai If Tai in your sense means ethnic Tai. I was born in Thailand so What do you expect me to call myself other than Thai! Anyway, one thing I notice here is that Laos tends to use 'Tai' to call themselves instead of 'Lao', Why? Is Lao a bad word? or you guys aren't proud of Lao.

[Savan]

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This post has been edited by Savan: Aug 22 2012, 08:59 PM

[XigonCongchua]

Speaking of consonant clusters, they existed in all ancient languages of the world. Ancient Chinese also used to have consonant clusters but they simplified the consonants by the Tang Dynasty. The same thing for Vietnamese. The consonant clusters and the R that exist in Thai language is actually more original then the simplified consonants and the H sound in Lao. In the recent year, Lao has simplified their consonant just like Vietnamese and Chinese did. But Thai still preserve the more original ones.

[XigonCongchua]

Speaking of consonant clusters, they existed in all ancient languages of the world. Ancient Chinese also used to have consonant clusters but they simplified the consonants by the Tang Dynasty. The same thing for Vietnamese. The consonant clusters and the R that exist in Thai language is actually more original then the simplified consonants and the H sound in Lao. In the recent year, Lao has simplified their consonant just like Vietnamese and Chinese did. But Thai still preserve the more original ones.

[Anouvong]

You think the Thai "R" sounds better than the English "R" or the regular "H" or "L" sound???? LOL!

Here's a Thai talk show. Everyone on the show is speaking Thai except for the guests who are Lao artists. The Lao artists don't come out until after they've been introduced by the Thai talk show hosts.

Lao artists Alexandra Bounxouei and L.O.G. on Thai TV:
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/searc...23-aug-07_music

The two men and the lady are Thai. Listen to how harsh she sounds when speaking Thai and especially when pronouncing the Thai "R". Alexandra (the Lao artist in the red dress) sounds nice and soft because she's speaking Lao, whereas the talk show hosts are speaking Thai. The Italian R sounds nice, but not the Thai R. Sorry, but it is what it is.

You are the best at twist fact here.

The trilled R, Thai lady spoke is not what central Thai normally do, It's on TV, ok? She emphasized a name of a drama series and your country name like "Rak Rim fang khong / Satharanarat" . You can notice that she rarely trill her tongue on these "R" words, Reung, mayuRa (her name), alexandRa, aRai, naRak. Rock, kRai, sakkRoo, Rong. She just tap her tongue or simply drop to L. This is the REAL way how Thai people talk in everyday conversation. Moreover, the two Thai guys had never rolled their tongue for R, like the word "Rao", they just pronounced "Lao". why won't you mention them?

To be honest, in the clip, I don't feel Lao speak slower than Central Thai. The slowest is Northern Thai (Lanna/Khammuang) which is slower and softer than Lao. If you think speak slower mean more beautiful, I think northern Thai is more beautiful than northern Lao cuz they speak slower and softer. One more thing, all Thai end conversation sentences with ka/krab/Jao/Ja, but Lao don't. I feel Lao speak curtly/briefly, in Thai is phud huan huan ,or Mai mee hang siang. (ห้วนๆ - ไม่มีหางเสียง). It's not polite and considered as hard/rough talk.

Listen to Nichkhun a Thai singer in Korea, he simply change R to L. Roo-Reurng, Rai-garn become Loo-Leurng, Lai-garn. In reality we talk like him. Don't think we talk like in Thai TV. 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnOJH9Pk3f8

add:

Thai language does sound like Khmer, except that Thai is tonal.

lol, If Thai does sound like Khmer, Lao does too 2

From this movie, Exclude the first guy and Ananda the lead actor speak Thai. Ananda speak Thai with no trilled R like all Thai speak in daily basis. Notice all Lao speak not faster or slower than Thai. like you are claiming.
Sabai dee LPB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAg3mBIuptA

This post has been edited by Anouvong: May 13 2009, 08:37 AM

[trickystyle]

Thai language does sound like Khmer, except that Thai is tonal.

well it shows you that you don't know anything about either languages. its like day and night, even loan words that are exchanged between both tongues are pronounced differently so they don't reflect each other at all.

trust me, thai does not sound like khmer. and vice versa.

[Anouvong]

Here are some statistics about the Lao language and the Thai language. Now I understand why Thai language is similar to Lao language, but with a slight Khmer twist to it.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The Lao language is made up of the following:

67.56% Lao
24.97% Pali
5.90% Sanskrit
0.53% Khmer
0.40% Thai (Siamese)
0.28% Chinese
0.23% French

-------------------------------------------------------------

The Thai language is made up of the following:

55.55% Lao
24.97% Pali
7.41% Thai
5.90% Sanskrit
5.53% Khmer
0.28% Chinese
0.23% English

For Thai

1 Tai
2 Sanskrit
3 Pali
4 Khmer (and Mon)
5 Chinese (southern)
6 Malay, European...

There are Sanskrit words more than Pali, I don't know why Lao have more Pali, maybe they cannot clearly distinguish Pali and Sanskrit due to their writing is very phonetic unlike Thai writing which can trace back the root of all loan words (including Khmer and Chinese).

[Buddhalove]

I never consider myself related to Tai If Tai in your sense means ethnic Tai. I was born in Thailand so What do you expect me to call myself other than Thai! Anyway, one thing I notice here is that Laos tends to use 'Tai' to call themselves instead of 'Lao', Why? Is Lao a bad word? or you guys aren't proud of Lao.

You are jek holding thai citizen. When talking about ethnicity, you're not Tai. Any more question let me know jek.

[Laoism]

Buc Fake Isan, If you are real Isan you will know that Khmer and Central Thai sound different. You can't assume Thai sounds much similar to Khmer because of Khmer loan words and the "rolled R"

Central Thai has R but it is "tapped R" not "trilled R". I feel "trilled R" sound a bit funny but "tapped R" sounds beautiful and "L" is the hard sound comparing to "tapped R". So I prefer speak my Thai-accented English with "tapped R" not "trilled R" and not "American rolled R" too, American rolled R sounds ugly to me. If you don't know what I am talking about, go learn Italian

Everyday life, Thai ppl simply drop "tapped R" to "L", So it's stupid wrong if some Lao here think that Thai ppl cannot understand Lao due to Lao ppl merges R to L (or H).
"R" plays big roll in official speaking/conversation like in TV, movies, drama, songs. you can't expect "Central Thai" speaks like what you hear in drama or music. got it? buc fake Isan

So Thai are trying hard to speak like Lao huh? Before, you Siamese used to make fun of Lao for not using R ....555 Thai want to speak sweet like Lao now...


Buc Jek Loangkoak!!

This post has been edited by Laoism: May 13 2009, 04:44 PM

[Laoism]

I never consider myself related to Tai If Tai in your sense means ethnic Tai. I was born in Thailand so What do you expect me to call myself other than Thai! Anyway, one thing I notice here is that Laos tends to use 'Tai' to call themselves instead of 'Lao', Why? Is Lao a bad word? or you guys aren't proud of Lao.

Few days ago I watched this bald headed guy on Thai TV where he went to 12 Panna to interview this great Asian historian who happened to speak the so called Thai language and the guy even say Tai mean people. The last monarch of Kumming told him "Hao Pen Tai Dio Gun" which mean "We are the same PEOPLE". In Lao Tai Vieng mean People of Vieng...

Oyyy deh Buc Jek Loangkoak!

[Savan]

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This post has been edited by Savan: Aug 22 2012, 08:59 PM

[XigonCongchua]

You have a tendency to lump Lao language in with Chinese and Vietnamese. Please stop doing that. =)

The rolled R sound is not a native sound in the Lao language, at least not the way the Thais are pronouncing their R's.

The Thai "R" is not original. It was borrowed from the Khmers.

I don't.

Study some linguistics and you'll see what I said was true.

The R sound is among the most original sounds of ancient languages, but later as languages developed they replaced the R with some other sounds to make it sound better.
Like, "love" in Thai is Ruk, "love" in Lao is Huk. Well Ruk is the more original while Huk is recently developed to replace the R sound with some smoother sound.

The consonant clusters in Thai is also more original. As languages developed, they tend to simplify the consonants, not making it more complicated. Meaning they would drop some consonants in the consonant clusters, not adding new consonants.

Anyone with a basic knowledge of linguistics should be able to know this.

[Anouvong]

So Thai are trying hard to speak like Lao huh? Before, you Siamese used to make fun of Lao for not using R ....555 Thai want to speak sweet like Lao now...


Buc Jek Loangkoak!!

Why must Thai got to speak like Lao?

That the way Thai ppl talk. May I say the Shan or Zhuang ppl copy Lao talking because of "L" sound?

stupid, isn't it? 2

and if you are really an Isan driver in Bangkok, you must know why we talk like that.

Buc FAKE Isan

[Anouvong]

It's obvious that some Thai speakers are confused as to what their language truly is supposed to be. Either you pronounce your R's or you don't. Make up your mind already.

You really don't know Thai at all, do you really think we ROLL our tongue all the time, so you have conclusion that Thai does sound like khmer Thai ppl are not confused, we know when we should roll our unique R. In everyday talk, we are just drop R to L, but in formal/official talk like in TV/ public places, we roll our R BUT we don't trill our tongue like machine gun you said or roll our tongue extremely backward like the American R, we just tap/flap our tongue like the Italian tapped R. So don''t think that we talk like what you hear on Thai TV news, ok?

That's because our polite participles are only used when needed. Thai language sounds rough and robotic, which is why you HAVE TO constantly end your sentences with your polite participles (i.e. Kha/Krup, etc...) to "humanize" the Thai language. In Lao language, we don't have to do that because our language already sounds polite unlike Thai language. We show politeness by our intonation and how we phrase our sentences. Our polite participles (Jao, Der, Dawk, Doi, etc...) are only used when absolutely necessary because if those words are used too often it would be an overkill because our language already sounds polite. Lao and Thai are related languages, but that doesn't mean that we sound exactly the same. Lao language sounds friendlier than Thai, which is why we're supposed to use our polite participles sparingly, whereas Thais are pretty much required to use their polite participles. If we sounded harsh like robots, then we'd probably be required to end all of our sentences with polite participles like Thai people, but fortunately we don't have that problem with our language.

The ending words make Thai sound more polite, you don't have to be so biased that ONLY Lao language sound polite. Both Thai and Lao are polite ppl. But Thai add polite ending word make Thai sound more polite than Lao. Everybody who speak Thai, I really mean EVERYBODY, when hear Lao ppl talk, we just feel strange in our ears why Lao ppl speaking sounds so harsh. It sounds like hearing a kid talk to his parent like he talk to his friends in same age. Personally, I am bored to hear Alexandra saying robotically "Man Laew" all the way she talked . If she was a Thai, she may talk like human with many words like Chai,kha,ja or just uhh, umm, ahh.

you said LPB accent is slower than Vientiane and don't use polite paticles often. I got to say that our Northern Thai (especially Lanna Chiangmai) talk slower than LPB and guess what? Unlike your Luang Pabang, Northern Thai ppl end up sentence with polite words like Jao,Ja. It makes Northern Thai is the most sweet accent in Thailand and of couse more sweet than Lao.

BTW, for foreigners who learning Thai. If you are learning with Tape/CD that teach you to end ALL sentences with polite particles like Krap/Kha and you feel Thai ppl talk like an American robot ending every sentence with YES/SIR. You need to know that in real life we don't ending ALL sentences with Krap/Ka like you heard in CD, just some suitable sentences not all. Moreover Krap/Ka is just 2 out of our TONS of ending paricles, like ja,na,nau,ga,gau,jao,na,pa,ya,ha,pa etc. This is our charm of Thai language. These particles make Thai is very fun language to talk and very unique to Lao.

That shows how very little you know about the Lao language. No one in the movie "Sabaidee Luang Prabang" spoke with a northern Lao accent. You don't even know what Luang Prabang accent sounds like...LOL! Anyway, northern Lao women speak even slower and softer than Alexandra Bounxouie who has a central Vientiane accent.

Besides, Ananda Everingham is LAO! He speaks Thai nicer than actual Thai people (i.e. his boss behind the desk in the movie). Ananda sounds like a Lao person speaking Thai because his voice sounds soft and polite like how northern Lao people sound.

Anyway, Thais are supposed to roll their R's like how a machine gun sounds, so if you're not rolling your R then you're really not speaking Thai, but copying the Lao language. You don't hear Americans changing their R's into L's.

Here's a clip of a Thai news show. IMHO, Thai language sounds like a machine gun. Listen for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2rsQTF-aDU

^The only person speaking in the Lao language is Alexandra Bounxouei, the girl behind the mics and standing next to the Thai guy.

LOL,,, so what accent will you represent to be REAL Lao to debate with me? Vientiane or LPB? I understand that Laos have no standard accent but you have to say clearly. If you just say Lao is slower and softer, who will know what Lao accent you mean?
I can act ignorantly like you too by saying Bangkok Thai is not real Central Thai accent. Central Thai is not only Bangkok Thai, there are Ayudhaya and Suphanburi accent which considered as the real accent of Ayudhaya ppl in Siam Kingdom. The accent sounds slower and softer than Bangkok accent. Do you want me to switch to this real sweet accent to talk with you?

Ananda grew up in Thailand not Laos. He speaks true Thai accent. Although, his mom is Lao, you can't expect he will speak with Lao accent. His dad is also farang Aussie, Why wouldn't he talk Thai with farang accent? got it? Because he is Thai, born in Thailand, grew up in Thailand. So he doesn't have any Lao or farang accent. Many Isan ppl have Lao parent from Laos, but they speak Thai with no Lao accent, why? because Bangkok Thai is standard teaching in every school in Thailand. Thai accent is universal in Thailand every generation except some olders can speak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2rsQTF-aDU
^ your clip shows Thai talk with R and no R. Thai lady, the TV reporter. she supposed to talk fomally so she talk clearly with R and all R/L clusters. But just listen to the Thai actor at 1:35 , he talk with no R, he is talking like with friends in everyday conversation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLXIu5roqxE
Listen to this new clip, Nichkhun a Thai singer in Korea, at 0:40, I would say in everyday life Thai ppl talk like him. Notice the voice of woman reporter she speak for a news program to onair in TV so she must speak officially with clear R and R/L clusters.

This post has been edited by Anouvong: May 14 2009, 07:34 AM

[Savan]

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This post has been edited by Savan: Aug 22 2012, 08:59 PM

[XigonCongchua]

It seems that you don't have a bit knowledge about linguistics, Savan.

Just because the pattern happens in one language it doesn't mean the same pattern happens in another language. Just because Lao changes R to H, that doesn't mean English and other languages do the same thing. In fact, the pattern of changing R to H is very rare and only happens in Lao.

It's not likely for the H to be changed into R. However, R can be changed into H if it's aspirated. Like R --> Rh --> H. The other way around can't happen because they can't just suddenly add an R to H sound.

It's likely for R and L to interchange though (doesn't matter which one come first).

R and L have long been known to be related to each other, they're more related to each other than H and L.