Southren thai= malay? Options

[SurinKhmerBoran]

I heard some rumours that southern Thailand claim them self to be Malay people? Do they speak the same languages as in malaysia?

[hitmonxiong]

I think the 3 southern provinces were formerly part of Malaysia. The annexation probably took place shortly after world war 2

[SurinKhmerBoran]

i see.

[Esfandiari]

I think the 3 southern provinces were formerly part of Malaysia. The annexation probably took place shortly after world war 2

Not all the southern Malay provinces of Thailand were once a part of Malaysia! In fact, none of them was a part of Malaysia because Malaysia was created only in 1963 through the union of Malaya (West Malaysia bordering Thailand), Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore (Singapore left Malaysia in 1965).

But these are the facts: the Thai province of SATUN was once a part of the Malaysian state of KEDAH. Under the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909, the two colonial powers (Britain and Siam) decided to split Malaya between the two of them. In this Treaty, the Malay sultanate of PATTANI was given in entirety to Siam. The Malay sultanates of KELANTAN and TERENGGANU were given in entirety to the British. The Malay sultanate of KEDAH was split into three parts: Kedah proper, Setul and Perlis. SETUL was given to Siam and renamed SATUN by the Siamese. PERLIS was made a new sultanate and given to the British, and Kedah proper, called SAIBURI in Siamese, was also given to the British. So, when MALAYA became independent in 1957, it inherited KEDAH, PERLIS, KELANTAN and TERENGGANU from the British. In 1963, Malaya united with SABAH and SARAWAK to form MALAYSIA.

As for PATTANI, it was formerly a vassal of Thailandfor hundreds of years that still retained some degree of autonomy. But after the 1909 Anglo-Siam Treaty, Thailand (formerly Siam) officially annexed Pattani later on and abolished its autonomy. Pattani was then split into three smaller provinces of NARATHIWAT (from MENARA in Malay), PATTANI (from PATANI in Malay) and YALA (from JALA in Malay). About 80% of the people of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat are Malays who are Muslims, thus sharing the ethnic and religious bonds with Malaysia. Pattani has always been a rebellious province for hunderds of years long before the 1909 Anglo-Siamese Treaty. And the provinces that once made up the Sultanate of Pattani continue to be rebellious even to this day.

SATUN is the only Malay province of Thailand that has been peaceful and has never had any history of rebellion against the central government in Bangkok. The Malaysian state of Kedah, however, has a record of going to wars against Siam many times, in fact, it won one some wars against the Siamese, even successfully liberated parts of Pattani for a short while. Kedah was militarily stronger than Pattani.





This post has been edited by Esfandiari: Jul 30 2010, 03:00 PM

[SChong54]

I heard some rumours that southern Thailand claim them self to be Malay people? Do they speak the same languages as in malaysia?

Northern Peninsula = Siam

[Esfandiari]

I heard some rumours that southern Thailand claim them self to be Malay people? Do they speak the same languages as in malaysia?

Rumors? It is a fact, not RUMOR, that 70-80% of the people of four southern Thai provinces of SATUN, NARATHIWAT, YALA and PATTANI are Malays who are predominantly Muslims. Another southern Thai province, SONGKHLA, has a mixed Thai-Malay population, perhaps having 30% Malay Muslims. Even the names of these provinces are derived from their original Malay names; Satun from 'Setul' (setul is the name of a fruit tree in Malay), Narathiwat from 'Menara' (which means tower in Malay), Yala from 'Jala' (which refers to a kind of fishing net in Malay), Pattani from 'Patani' which itself originates from 'pata ni' which means 'this beach' in Patani Malay accent ('pantai ini' in standard Malay), and Songkhla from 'Singora' which means 'Lion City'in Malay. Yes, they speak Malay in these five southern Thai provinces which is basically the same language spoken in Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia.




This post has been edited by Esfandiari: Jul 31 2010, 01:50 PM

[SurinKhmerBoran]

Rumors? It is a fact, not RUMOR, that 70-80% of the people of four southern Thai provinces of SATUN, NARATHIWAT, YALA and PATTANI are Malays who are predominantly Muslims. Another southern Thai province, SONGKHLA, has a mixed Thai-Malay population, perhaps having 30% Malay Muslims. Even the names of these provinces are derived from their original Malay names; Satun from 'Setul' (setul is the name of a fruit tree in Malay), Narathiwat from 'Menara' (which means tower in Malay), Yala from 'Jala' (which refers to a kind of fishing net in Malay), Pattani from 'Patani' which itself originates from 'pata ni' which means 'this beach' in Patani Malay accent ('pantai ini' in standard Malay), and Songkhla from 'Singora' which means 'Lion City'in Malay. Yes, they speak Malay in these five southern Thai provinces which is basically the same language spoken in Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia.

nice, why dont you guys help them take it back :P

[Esfandiari]

Northern Peninsula = Siam

Northern Peninsula? No such place on this planet according to UNCSGN (United Nations Conference on Standardization of Geographic Names)! Only UNCSGN-approved geographic names are accepted internationally. So, "Northern Peninsula" does not exist. Only the "Malay Peninsula" exists as recognized by UNCSGN.

Contrary to popular belief that the Malay Peninsula is entirely in Malaysia, the Malay Peninsula is actually divided among 3 countries: the southern-most part of the Malay Peninsula belongs to Malaysia and now called Peninsular Malaysia or West Malaysia; the central part of the Malay Peninsula belongs to Thailand, extending from the border of Malaysia to the Isthmus of Kra close to the city of Chumphon; the northern-most part of the Malay Peninsula is about equally divided between Myanmar (northwestern part of the Malay Peninsula) and Thailand (northeastern part of the Malay Peninsula).

So, you are not only wrong about the fantasy peninsula that you call "Northern Peninsula", you are also wrong in saying that the peninsula belongs to Siam!

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This post has been edited by Esfandiari: Jul 31 2010, 02:20 PM

[Esfandiari]

nice, why dont you guys help them take it back :P

Help in what ways? Direct war with Thailand? That will not be possible! If Malaysia starts war with Thailand over these provinces, then the whole world will come against us and Thailand will definitely fight tooth and nail to defend these provinces against external agression. Malaysia considers these Thai provinces as an internal affairs of Thailand. But there have been rumors that Malaysia has been secretly providing weapons and military training for Malay separatist in southern Thailand. Anyway, if you Khmers are so concerned about southern Thai provinces and the Malays there, why don't you help them!!

[SurinKhmerBoran]

Help in what ways? Direct war with Thailand? That will not be possible! If Malaysia starts war with Thailand over these provinces, then the whole world will come against us and Thailand will definitely fight tooth and nail to defend these provinces against external agression. Malaysia considers these Thai provinces as an internal affairs of Thailand. But there have been rumors that Malaysia has been secretly providing weapons and military training for Malay separatist in southern Thailand. Anyway, if you Khmers are so concerned about southern Thai provinces and the Malays there, why don't you help them!!

because i do not like Al-Qaida ppl.

[ocrapdm]

Help in what ways? Direct war with Thailand? That will not be possible! If Malaysia starts war with Thailand over these provinces, then the whole world will come against us and Thailand will definitely fight tooth and nail to defend these provinces against external agression. Malaysia considers these Thai provinces as an internal affairs of Thailand. But there have been rumors that Malaysia has been secretly providing weapons and military training for Malay separatist in southern Thailand. Anyway, if you Khmers are so concerned about southern Thai provinces and the Malays there, why don't you help them!!

There are also rumors that Malaysia has been supporting Muslim insurgents in Philippines so they can join Malaysia, which Malaysia hopes, will finally end the Philippine claim on almost 80% of Sabah and even the extreme northern parts of Kalimantan.

[Esfandiari]

because i do not like Al-Qaida ppl.

Good for you if you don't like al-Qaida people! We also don't like al-Qaida! So, we have something in common here! But what does al-Qaida have to do with your topic here?

[islam]

Good for you if you don't like al-Qaida people! We also don't like al-Qaida! So, we have something in common here! But what does al-Qaida have to do with your topic here?

al-Qaida=islam same with malay=islam

[SurinKhmerBoran]

Well southren thai islam terrorism are supported by AL-qaida or they said so.
And someone here said malaysia supply them with weapons? make sense? I hope they ended soon. I hope SE doest end up like middle east, beheading and cruel actions on the streets

[Esfandiari]

Well southren thai islam terrorism are supported by AL-qaida or they said so.
And someone here said malaysia supply them with weapons? make sense? I hope they ended soon. I hope SE doest end up like middle east, beheading and cruel actions on the streets

There has been no proof that al-Qaeda is involved in Southern Thailand conflict because if it does, it would alarm Malaysia as well because we don't want al-Qaeda on our borders too.

The Thai-Malay conflict in south Thailand has been going on for the last 200-300 years with or without al-Qaeda or Malaysia. The conflict is still ON-GOING as we speak. Pattani was a Malay Muslim Sultanate. Its last major war with Thailand was in 1787 when it lost that war. The Sultan of Pattani and thousands of Pattani Malay Muslim soldiers were dragged in iron chains to Bangkok and forced to be slaves. Pattani was defeated and humiliated. Ever since, Pattani has been fighting for its independence to THIS DAY.

I personally think that Thailand is COLONIZING Pattani, just like the British colonized Malaysia or the French colonized Cambodia. The people of Pattani are ethnically Malays, not Thais. They are Muslims, not Buddhists. Pattani has its own history, culture and used to have its own kingdom and kings. They deserve to be independent. The only reason Thailand is in Pattani now is because of its superior military power. The Thai-Pattani conflict in southern Thailand will go on forever, just like it has been going on in the past. The people of Pattani will never stop fighting NOW because they had never stopped fighting in the PAST, with or without al-Qaeda.

Even MY HOME Malaysian state of KEDAH too had been fighting the Siamese for hundreds of years. Kedah was luckier to be transferred to BRITAIN and joined Malaysia and became a part of a big Malay country called MALAYSIA in 1957. Kedah's last war against Thailand was in 1841. Thailand won that war with British help: the British blockaded Kedah at the sea with 30 warships for 3 months so no weapons could reach Kedah, to weaken Kedah so that it would be easier for the Thais to defeat Kedah. Kedah, like Pattani, remained COLONIZED by Siam until 1909 after which it was transferred to Britain under the Anglo-Siamese Treaty. Kedah officially became a part of MALAYA in 1948, and Malaya became independent from Britain in 1957. But Kedah's province of SETUL (now called SATUN in Thailand) was given to Thailand only because 30% of its population were Siamese.

PATTANI was not lucky: they begged FRANK SWETTENHAM (British Resident in Malaysia) to include Pattani in Malaya but failed. The British refused to take in Pattani into Malaya; they only took in KEDAH, KELANTAN, PERLIS and TRENGGANU. If the British had taken in Pattani, then today Pattani would have been a part of Malaysia. But that's history.

Yes, there have been rumors that Malaysia has been helping the people of Pattani in their fight against Thailand. I don't know if the rumors are true or not but our government has denied these rumors. At this moment, we have very good relations with Thailand, and the Siamese people in Malaysia are considered BUMIPUTRA or natives of Malaysia and enjoy same special rights as the Malays.

But I do not believe Al-QAEDA is involved in the Malay-Thai conflict in southern Thailand.

[thaiboy]

There has been no proof that al-Qaeda is involved in Southern Thailand conflict because if it does, it would alarm Malaysia as well because we don't want al-Qaeda on our borders too.

The Thai-Malay conflict in south Thailand has been going on for the last 200-300 years with or without al-Qaeda or Malaysia. The conflict is still ON-GOING as we speak. Pattani was a Malay Muslim Sultanate. Its last major war with Thailand was in 1787 when it lost that war. The Sultan of Pattani and thousands of Pattani Malay Muslim soldiers were dragged in iron chains to Bangkok and forced to be slaves. Pattani was defeated and humiliated. Ever since, Pattani has been fighting for its independence to THIS DAY.

I personally think that Thailand is COLONIZING Pattani, just like the British colonized Malaysia or the French colonized Cambodia. The people of Pattani are ethnically Malays, not Thais. They are Muslims, not Buddhists. Pattani has its own history, culture and used to have its own kingdom and kings. They deserve to be independent. The only reason Thailand is in Pattani now is because of its superior military power. The Thai-Pattani conflict in southern Thailand will go on forever, just like it has been going on in the past. The people of Pattani will never stop fighting NOW because they had never stopped fighting in the PAST, with or without al-Qaeda.

Even MY HOME Malaysian state of KEDAH too had been fighting the Siamese for hundreds of years. Kedah was luckier to be transferred to BRITAIN and joined Malaysia and became a part of a big Malay country called MALAYSIA in 1957. Kedah's last war against Thailand was in 1841. Thailand won that war with British help: the British blockaded Kedah at the sea with 30 warships for 3 months so no weapons could reach Kedah, to weaken Kedah so that it would be easier for the Thais to defeat Kedah. Kedah, like Pattani, remained COLONIZED by Siam until 1909 after which it was transferred to Britain under the Anglo-Siamese Treaty. Kedah officially became a part of MALAYA in 1948, and Malaya became independent from Britain in 1957. But Kedah's province of SETUL (now called SATUN in Thailand) was given to Thailand only because 30% of its population were Siamese.

PATTANI was not lucky: they begged FRANK SWETTENHAM (British Resident in Malaysia) to include Pattani in Malaya but failed. The British refused to take in Pattani into Malaya; they only took in KEDAH, KELANTAN, PERLIS and TRENGGANU. If the British had taken in Pattani, then today Pattani would have been a part of Malaysia. But that's history.

Yes, there have been rumors that Malaysia has been helping the people of Pattani in their fight against Thailand. I don't know if the rumors are true or not but our government has denied these rumors. At this moment, we have very good relations with Thailand, and the Siamese people in Malaysia are considered BUMIPUTRA or natives of Malaysia and enjoy same special rights as the Malays.

But I do not believe Al-QAEDA is involved in the Malay-Thai conflict in southern Thailand.

Thank you for in formation.

[SyedHussein]

Thailand won that war with British help: the British blockaded Kedah at the sea with 30 warships for 3 months so no weapons could reach Kedah, to weaken Kedah so that it would be easier for the Thais to defeat Kedah.

More like 4 ships.

[Esfandiari]

More like 4 ships.

You are right! There were perhaps only 4 British warships helping Siam overcome Kedah in the 1838-1841 Kedah-Siam war. These warships were the "Hyacinth", the "Diamond", the "Pearl" and the "Emerald". A fifth one, the "Crocodile" was probably involved too, while the sixth one, the "Diana" was on standby in Singapore. The figure 30 that I gave is too high.

[SyedHussein]

I have a suggestion.

First we smuggled a number of rockets into Souther thailand. Then use this rockets to attack Malaysia border town like Bukit kayu hitam or Pekan Wang Kelian from inside Thailand border. Then we make a fuss about the presence of Anti-malaysian rebels based in Southern Thailand and the inability of the Thai authority to stop them. then using this pretext, we unilateraly send a spearhead of our invading army and gained control of all patani provinces. We keep the thai police as it is to make it look's like that we were there not as occupiers but as a peacekeeper. then we draw a long stretch withdrawal plan citing a lot of difficulties in moving equipments and manpower out of Thailand and we also stress on "early withdrawal" will emboldened the terrorist.

[Esfandiari]

I have a suggestion.

First we smuggled a number of rockets into Souther thailand. Then use this rockets to attack Malaysia border town like Bukit kayu hitam or Pekan Wang Kelian from inside Thailand border. Then we make a fuss about the presence of Anti-malaysian rebels based in Southern Thailand and the inability of the Thai authority to stop them. then using this pretext, we unilateraly send a spearhead of our invading army and gained control of all patani provinces. We keep the thai police as it is to make it look's like that we were there not as occupiers but as a peacekeeper. then we draw a long stretch withdrawal plan citing a lot of difficulties in moving equipments and manpower out of Thailand and we also stress on "early withdrawal" will emboldened the terrorist.

Great suggestion...on paper that is! Hehehe! What you are suggesting is that we find a pretext to invade southern Thailand. The question is: are we that militarily strong enough to engage Thailand in an open war? Worse, we are the aggressors, we invade their territory first! I think the Thai Armed Forces is overwhelmingly too strong for us. Plus the fact that a country that is invaded rallies better and more solidly united against an external enemy that invades it. If Malaysia invades Thailand, that country will rally and we will be in a lot of trouble. And instead of us being in Pattani to liberate it, the Thais might be in Kedah triumphantly announcing that it has captured and annexed the Malaysian state, and renaming it "Syburi"! And instantaneously, me, my family members, relatives and friends suddenly could find ourselves ending up as Thai citizens! I am from Kedah, you know! Remember, Thailand too has its share of irredentists! Many Thais still look at Kedah, Perlis, Kelantan and Terengganu as lost territories.

Remember 1841? Kedah invaded Pattani, the Thais rallied. Britain immediately declared Kedah aggressors, and instantly launched a sea blockade of Kedah. Kedah lost and the rest is history. And TODAY, if Malaysia is the first to commit aggression against that country by invading it, the WHOLE WORLD will rally around Thailand....the US, UK, UN, ASEAN..to name a few. You think Malaysia can handle the world? Didn't you see what happen to Saddam's Iraq?

Nope, you suggestion is just like asking Malaysia to commit suicide. Malaysia should just leave Thailand alone. The Thais are already having a large handful of problems even without us provoking them, both external and internal problems. Internally, they are fighting both the Malays (southern Thailand insurgency in Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat) and THEMSELVES (the Red Shirts vs Yellow Shirts, the pro-Thaksin vs the anti-Thaksin group, urban wealthy elites vs the rural poor masses, the monarchists vs the latent anti-monarchists, etc). Externally, the are having problems with Cambodia and even Myanmar to some degree. We don't want to be the cause for Thailand to rally itself, do we? I think a better way is to provide covert support for Malay separatists, and to keep denying if the Thais suspect it. And if they invade us first, then we have legitimate right to fight them.