China has no reason to wait to take back S. China Sea Options

[Liang1a]

China has no reason to wait to take back S. China Sea

http://bbs.miercn.com/201207/thread_118412_1_2.html

1、南沙群岛相对中国易攻难守的地理态势导致中国选择耐心等待。

Translation:
1. The easy to attack but difficult to defend geographical conditions make China wait patiently.

　　南沙群岛远离中国大陆一千多至数千公里，距越南和菲律宾等南亚小国却仅有数百公里。南沙很多所谓陆地绝大多数是沙礁群，很多时间淹没在海面以下，形成固定露出海面的岛屿的仅几十个，除目前台湾当局占领的太平岛面积较大，有淡水资源，能够修建用于坚固防御守岛军事设施外，包括我国控制，越南、菲律宾等国侵占的岛屿都不具备修建长期稳固军事防御设施的条件。

Translation:
Nansha Islands are more than one thousand to several thousand kilometers away from China. They are only several hundred kilometers away from Vietnam and Philippines. Many of the so-called land are mostly shoals and reefs that are submered much of the time. There are only a few tens of islands that are permanently above high tide. Other than Taiping Island which is currently controlled by Taiwan authorities and is bigger, has fresh water and where strong defensive facilities can be built, all the other islands including those under our national control and those invaded by Vietnam and Philippines do not have the conditions for permanent military facilities to be built on them.

　　我国如果兵发南海，以不及掩耳之势攻占南海诸岛应该没有太大问题，但攻占以后问题就不那么简单了。要在数十个相距遥远地质复杂互不相连的狭窄海岛上迅速建立起陆空海立体防御系统，武器、器材、建材的运进以及施工都有难于想象的困难，

Translation:
It is not a problem for our military to use blitzkrieg tactic to take the various islands in the South Sea. But after taking the island the problem will not be so simple. There are problems difficult beyond imagination to link tens of mutually distant narrow islands all with different geological conditions and quickly establish a land-air-sea three dimensional defense system and to transport weapons, materiels and construction materials and implement construction operations.

日常战斗、训练、后勤保障，也需要数千公里的海上或空中驰援，即使不考虑情报收集处理，初期的保岛防卫也必定会建立在远洋海军，远距离空军和中远程打击武器的基础上，而远洋海军在很长时间内曾经是中国的弱项，中国空军战机的有效作战半径延伸南海也是近几年的事，至于中远程打击武器的运用，有很多的外部因数需要考虑，像常规武器那样频繁不断投入战斗是不现实的。

Translation:
The day to day battle, training and support insurance must also need several thousands of kilometer of supply line. Even if we discount the gathering of intelligence and their disposal, the initial defense of the islands must be based on the far distance navy, far distance air force and mid-distance attack weapons. But the far distance navy has been for a long time the weak neck of China. The extension of Chinese fighters' combat radii into the South Sea is some thing that hapened in the recent few years. As to the use of mid-distance attack weapons, there are many external reasons that need to be considered. It is not realistic to ceaselessly throw in convenstional weapons.

　　而一定不会甘心失败的越南，攻防态势发生翻转，很自然的成为偷袭骚扰攻击方，对于他们，几百公里的距离，战机、军舰、海军陆战队很容易发挥地理优势，作为防守方的中国即使能够坚守，也将长期处于麻烦不断被动疲以应付的尴尬担忧状态。

Translation:
Vietnam, having lost, will not be content. As the role of attacker and defender has been reversed it will naturall become the sneaking attacker. For them a distance of few hundred kilometers, (their) war planes, naval ships, marines will also maximize the utilization of the geographical advantages. China as the defender, even if it can mount an effective defense will be situated in a passive, awkward and worrisome situation.

==========================================

The above is the unofficial reason why China does not dare to do anything in the S. China Sea except make ineffectual complaints. But are these reasons valid? Not at all. Why? Because they are all nonsense and factually inaccurate.

First even the most distant island of the Nansha Archipelago is less than 1,500 km from China. From the Yongxing Island, the administrative seat of the newly formed City of Sansha which includes all S. China Sea archipelagos of Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha, the distance to the farthest Nansha island is only about 1,000 km. Therefore, the distance of the islands are not "thousands" of kilometers away from China.

China's 4th generation fighers consisting of J-10, J-11, Su-27, Su-30 all have the combat radii of more than 1,500 km. (J-10's normal combat radius is 1,200 km but it can refuel in midair so its effective combat radius is more than 1,500 km.) China has deployed at least more than 500 of these 4th generation fighters and most probably has more than 700 at the current time (2012). Chinese fighter pilots have received thousands of hours of flight time and are very proficient with their fighters. Therefore, saying that Chinese fighters' extension of cambat radii to reach the South Sea is a recent event to suggest that Chinese fighter pilots are not good enough to defend against Vietnamese or Filipino fighter pilots is simply false propaganda. Vietnam has less than 100 Su-27 and Su-30 (most likely around 65 in 2012 though likely to increase to 100 within a few years). China can easily wipe out these fighters even if trade off one for one. And once destroyed, it will take years if ever for Vietnam to rebuild their modern air force while the Chinese air force can build thousands more in the coming years of 4th generation fighters and hundreds of 5th generation fighters in terms of J-20, J-18, etc. And even then the Vietnamese will either cannot get 5th generation fighters because Russia will either not sell any to them or Vietnam simply doesn't have the money to pay for the very expensive 5th generation fighters. And if China also prevent Vietnam from robbing Chinese oil and gas, it simply will not have the money to buy any weapons from Russia. Unlike the Vietnam War against America when the Soviet gave unlimited arms to the Vietnamese, Russia today will not give anything for free to the Vietnamese. So, it they don't have hard currencies they won't get anything to fight China with. Also China can blockade Vietnam to prevent the delivery of any weapon. China would have declared war on Vietnam and blockading enemies is a legitimate tactic so Russia cannot complain. As to Philippines, it doesn't even have a single 4th generation fighter let alone a 5th genration one. So there simply isn't any modern air force for China to fight against to defend against Philippines.

Even if the Chinese navy has been inadequate historically, it has advanced and expanded tremendously in recent years. It terms of numbers and quality of ships and missiles it is even better than the Japanese navy. Some argue that the Chinese navy is inexperienced. But this is only a subjective evaluation. People who think so are 100 years behind times. While they are thinking of the last naval battle in 1894 the Chinese navy has changed totally today both in terms of ships, missiles, and most important of all in the fighting spirit of the new Chinese navy who are motivated more by patriotism than by personal gains as was prevalent in the old Qing Navy. In any event fighting against the Vietnamese navy isn't like fighting against the Japanese navy. Compared to the Chinese navy the Vietnamese navy is very tiny and even less experienced. If China cannot defeat the Vietnamese navy then there is something very wrong with the entire Chinese military. And again, the Filipino navy is just a joke and nothing more need to be said other than a report that in the Huangyan Island incidence that started the current standoff against Philippines, the Filipino naval ship had attempted to fire its guns against the Chinese fishermen but its gun jammed. And that says it all.

The article said the problem will begin after China has driven the Vietnamese and the Filipinos out of their occupied islands. I don't see any problem here. If Vietnam dared to attack Chinese garrisons in any island then China should launch a comprehensive attack on Vietnam's mainland. The attack should not be in terms of land attack with hundreds of thousands of infantry troops but in terms of air attacks to wipe out all Vietnamese air force assets and naval assets. If Vietnam has no war planes and war ships of any kind then it is obvious it cannot launch any kind of attack on Chinese islands (unless hordes of Vietnamese can swim a distance greater than several times the British Channel with daggers clenched between their teeth for many days and nights without eating, drinking and sleeping). Even the closest islands from Vietnam is several tens of kilometers and require hours by the fastest speedboats to traverse the distance from Vietnam. China can easily patrol the waters and spot these approaching attack boats and sink them before they can come within distance to fire their weapons. Furthermore, China does not need to occupy all the vacated islands. Just a few strategically placed ones. All the rest can be left empty. Chinese observation planes can keep these islands under close surveillance and bomb any Vietnamese attempt to reoccupy them. Even if China allowed them to rebuild them, it would take a long time for the Vietnamese troops to rebuild the defenses of any island they try to re-occupy. In the end, it is cheaper for China to blow them up than for Vietnam to rebuild them. China can blow up in a few minutes what would have taken the Vietnamese months to build. In other words, China can keep it up easily indefinitely using these Vietnamese defenses for target practise and training while Vietnam will soon exhaust its resources trying to retake and rebuild the defenses and must soon give up.

As to defedning some main islands, the problem is actually very simple and effective. The writer of the article assumed that it is impossible for China to build up islands above sea level. He thinks that Chinese defenses must be in the form of a few long-legged concrete houses in the middle of some atolls, reefs or shoals hundreds of kilometers from anybody and cannot be defended against powerful enemy destroyers. The truth is it is getting relatively cheap to build up islands of several square kilometers by filling in rocks and sand from the atolls, reefs and shoals on site. That is, it is possible to grind up the rocks in the middle of the lagoons and use them to fill in the shallow parts at the rim of the lagoons. Mostly, each reef or atoll is in the form of a doughnut with a ring of shallow rocks or corals forming a rim and a deeper lagoon in the middle. The rim is usually mostly just under water at high tide for about a few meters. The middle of the lagoon is usually less than 15 to 20 meters deep. Therefore, if rocks and sand from inside the lagoon can be ground up to a depth of 30 meters and the broken up rocks and sand pumped away to fill in the shallower parts around the rim then each square kilometer of inner lagoon area can supply enough rocks and sand to fill in 1 to 2 square kilometers at the rim.

Below is a quote from an article about a Chinese dredging ship named Tian Jing which can grind up sea bottom rocks and pump the resulting slurry to a distance of up to 6 km away. Such a dredging ship is perfect for building up islands of many square kilometers in the S. China Sea to make military bases that incorporate a large runway for the biggest war planes and deep bays large enough for several of the biggest naval ships.

Given the specification that it can excavate 4,500 cubic meters of rocks per hour, it should be able to excavate some 50,000 cubic meters to 100,000 cubic meters of rocks in a 12 hour to 24 hour period. This means that one square kilometer of land can be built in 100 to 200 days; which in turn means that a 6 square km island can be built in 2 to 4 years. If it cost 10 million yuan per month, this translates into 250 million to 500 million yuan to make a 6 sq. km island. I think this is a very reasonable cost and well within the ability of the Chinese military to afford. If China built 4 more such islands (with Yong Xing Island making up the fifth) at a total cost of 2 billion yuan China will have 5 big islands fortified to withstand the most dangerous attacks short of a nuclear attack.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/4EH1eqD1osw/

http://jt.sz.bendibao.com/news/20071019/50627.htm

据介绍，该船长127.50米，宽23.00米，吃水5.5米，最大挖深30米，最大排泥距离6000米，配备多种当前国际最先进的疏浚设备，每小时可将4500立方米海底泥沙，通过输泥管道输送到数千米之外，生产能力雄冠亚洲之首，并且具有无限航区的航行能力和装驳功能，灵活机动，适用于各种海况的大型疏浚工程。

Translation:
As introduced, this ship is 127.5 m long, 23,00 m wide, and depth of 5.5 m. It can excavate up to 30 m deep (I take this to mean that it can excave sea bottom that is less than 30 m below its keel). It can transport the mud up to a distance of 6,000 m away. It has the most advanced dredging equipment in the world. It can take 4,500 cubic meters of sea sand and mud per hour and through pipes move it to several thousands meters away. It is the most productive in Asia. It is equipped for limitless distance and capability. It is agile and suitable for all kind of sea conditions and large scale dredging operations.

该船装备亚洲最为强大的挖掘系统，不仅可以疏浚黏土、密实沙、碎石，还可以开挖耐压为40兆帕的岩石。它的建造将改变人们清除海底岩石的方式，可大大减少海底爆破工程的数量，增大工程安全系数，也可减少对海洋的污染。

Translation:
This ship has the most powerful digging system in Asia. Not only can it dredge clay, compact sand, broken rock but it can also excavate rocks of 4 billion 帕. (I don't know what 帕 means. I take it to be some kind of unit for hardness. I'm assuming it indicates some very hard rock such as at the bottom of lagoons in S. China Sea. I hope so.) Its construction will change how people clean up sea bottom rock. It can reduce greatly the destructive level of engineering projects and increase greatly the security and safety level of the project. It can also reduce the pollution of the seas.

Take Meiji Island or Mischief Reef for example. The reef is a coral atoll with the east-west distance of 9 km and the north-south distance of 6 km. The depth of the lagoon is 20 m to 30 m. The area of the lagoon is some 36 square km. This means those areas of the lagoon bottom that are less than 20 meters deep at high tide can be excavated for some 10 meters deep into the rock bottom. Then the rocks and sand taken from this area can be ground up and put on the land areas around the rim that are exposed during low tide ( some 2 m above low tide). The result will be a height of some 7 m to 8 m at high tide for the filled up land. This is good enough to guard against high waves during typhoon seasons. Those islands that are naturally above high tide in S. China Sea are mostly if not all less than 7 m high above high tide. There is probably more than 6 square km of lagoon bottom at less than 20 meters under water at high tide at Mischief Reef. This means at least 6 square kilometers of land can be filled up around the rim. Or in other words, Meiji Island or Mischief Reef can easily be transformed into an island of at least 6 square km of useable land area. This is some 3 times or more bigger than Yongxing Island which is the biggest natural island in S. China Sea. It will be big enough to have a big air force base with a very long runway and a big sheltered harbor inside the lagoon for several large naval ships. It can also be fortified to deploy many powerful missiles against ships and planes. In fact it will be as impregnable as several aircraft carriers and unsinkable.

With several of such fortified solid islands, China can defend the entire S. China Sea with ease. The cost of attacking such well fortified islands is huge and beyond the means of Vietnam and Philippines at least for many years and more likely to be many decades. In other words, once China has built and fortified such a system of 3 to 5 islands it can deploy some 150 to 250 4th and 5th generation fighter/bombers and many anti-ship and anti-air missiles with many more unmanned surveillance planes and helicopters as well as lethal missile boats, submarines, frigates, and destroyers. The Chinese fighters can defend against any air attacks from Vietnam and Philippines who will be on suicide missions to attack these Chinese bases (and as I explained above if China wiped out their air force and navy they won't have any planes or ships to attack the Chinese islands with). And from these fortified islands Chinese planes and ships can patrol the un-garrisoned islands and attack any Vietnamese attempt to re-occupy them as I mentioned above.

Of course, these islands must still be provisioned from the mainland. But with bigger runways and bigger docks more goods can be transported here at lesser costs. And water can be collected from rainwater and stored in pools and cisterns. Most of the vegetables and even poultry can be produced locally to provide fresh vegetables and meat for the garrison personnel. With bigger land areas there can be more room for leisure activities to lessen the boredom. There can be tennis, badmington, volley ball, pools, scuba diving, water-skiing, etc. There can also be movie theaters, shops, restaurants, etc.

For images of Meiji Island, please see the following link:

http://baike.baidu.com/albums/50366/503 ... afa40f0621

In the final analysis, the reasons given by the author of the article for China not to take military action in S. China Sea are all irrelevant. His main argument is that while taking the islands is easy defending them subsequently against Vietnamese attacks will be difficult. His main reasons are that Vietnam will surely try to attack the Chinese garrisons and retake the islands. And since Chinese garrisons cannot be very strong because he took it for granted that they cannot be more than a few concrete structures in the middle of the open sea and thousands of kilometers from China's mainland, they cannot be defended against Vietnamese attacks. But I have demonstrated that it is not necessary for China to occupy every island or atoll. It is only necessary for China to build up 3 to 5 man made islands by filling them up with rocks and sand taken from the lagoon on-site. I have estimated that the cost of building a 6 square kilometers of island is some 500 million yuan using dredging ships such as Tian Jing described above.

Therefore, the cost is low and the time required is short for China to fortify the entire S. China Sea to make it impregnable against even the most serious attacks from the most advanced military power in the world. In the end, those who argue that China cannot defend S. China Sea are fools who are out of touch with technolgical advancements. I'm heartened to some degree to hear some reports that the Chinese government is now showing some signs of reclaiming land at some atolls - one of which is Subi Reef which is only some 17 nautical miles from Philippnes occpied Thitu Island or Zhongyue Islandwhich is a naturally above high tide island. I hope they can use the most advanced techniques to quickly deploy a powerful military system in the S. China Sea to safeguard the sacred sovereignty of the motherland.

[Evertonite]

It is a sea, not China's personal lake.

[Liang1a]

It is a sea, not China's personal lake.

It is China's sovereign territorial sea or as you put it China's "personal lake" inside the 9 dotted-lines.

This post has been edited by Liang1a: Aug 29 2012, 11:29 AM

[Evertonite]

It is China's sovereign territorial sea or as you put it China's "personal lake" inside the 9 dotted-lines.

Are you guys really this thick? It is an international body of water surrounded by over 9 countries. Just because you are now militarily powerful doesn't mean it belongs to you.

[Liang1a]

Are you guys really this thick? It is an international body of water surrounded by over 9 countries. Just because you are now militarily powerful doesn't mean it belongs to you.

You're the thick one. Since when has it become "an international body of water"? I don't care how many countries surround it. It belongs to China for thousands of years and it will continue to belong to China for thousands of years for as long as China can defend it.

Anybody who thinks just because a country borders on a body of water means that country owns that body of water has no clue about international law on sovereignty. If you dispute this, show me one international law that says Philippines owns S. China Sea because it is close to it.

Since you obviously have no cluse about international law on sovereignty, you can learn something true by going to the following link:

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=282827

This post has been edited by Liang1a: Aug 31 2012, 01:50 PM

[Evertonite]

[color="#006400"][/color]

You're the thick one. Since when has it become "an international body of water"? I don't care how many countries surround it. It belongs to China for thousands of years and it will continue to belong to China for thousands of years for as long as China can defend it.

Anybody who thinks just because a country borders on a body of water means that country owns that body of water has no clue about international law on sovereignty. If you dispute this, show me one international law that says Philippines owns S. China Sea because it is close to it.

Since you obviously have no cluse about international law on sovereignty, you can learn something true by going to the following link:

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=282827

This makes no sense. I am sure historically China was a dominant power in the South China Sea but it does not make it your property. I know China has become powerful again over the last 25 years but that does not mean that the Chinese lose all sense or reason and start claiming seas and oceans as sovereign property.

[Liang1a]

This makes no sense. I am sure historically China was a dominant power in the South China Sea but it does not make it your property. I know China has become powerful again over the last 25 years but that does not mean that the Chinese lose all sense or reason and start claiming seas and oceans as sovereign property.

China's sovereignty over the 9-Dotted Lines territories is not based on its power but on its initial discovery in uninhabited state and its establishment of sovereignty by inclusion in its territorial and adminstration map. These were established since the time of Han Dynasty and Tang Dynasty thousands of years ago.

China does not claim anything that does not belong to it already. China is not "claiming" but only telling the international community what its sovereign territories are. Or put it another way, it is defending its long established territories against the invasion of thuggish countries, specifically Vietnam and Philippines. China does not need to talk anymore about defending its sovereign territories against thugs. China has been trying to find a peaceful solution even to the irrationall point of offering joint develoment which is obviously a bad mistake because it only confuse the issue and emboldened the two thuggish countries to invade China even more. The time for talking is now over. China must firmly protect its sovereig territories and let the chips fall where they may.

The only countries that are demonizing China are the historical enemies anyway. These are America, Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, and their western allies. Actually, even Australia is showing signs of being reluctant to antagonize China. In fact, the whole world will cheer if China exerts itself to defend its rightful sovereign territories.

[BigBenChow]

This makes no sense. I am sure historically China was a dominant power in the South China Sea but it does not make it your property. I know China has become powerful again over the last 25 years but that does not mean that the Chinese lose all sense or reason and start claiming seas and oceans as sovereign property.

China is just doing what others have done in history, including the United States. If you have the might you've got the right.

[baal]

China is just doing what others have done in history, including the United States. If you have the might you've got the right.

Look at how much America is hated. That's the fate that lies in store for a bellicose China. Chinese aggressiveness will only encourage other powers, e.g., Japan and South Korea, to acquire nuclear weapons.

[Asianfrog]

China is just doing what others have done in history, including the United States. If you have the might you've got the right.

That's why the world is looking to constrain China. More and more think tanks raise concerns about China.More and more politics are worried , more reports in the news about China's belligerency in Asean sea to raise westerners' awareness that China's rise won't be peaceful.
First victory for Vietnam.

The world by now functions by rules et not by history. Letting history prevails will put the world upside down! So chinese claims won't be considered as legitimated. Since the all world agrees that China will use her military to conquer, every big power is considering about containing her.
Time is getting short for you guys.

[Liang1a]

That's why the world is looking to constrain China. More and more think tanks raise concerns about China.More and more politics are worried , more reports in the news about China's belligerency in Asean sea to raise westerners' awareness that China's rise won't be peaceful.
First victory for Vietnam.

The world by now functions by rules et not by history. Letting history prevails will put the world upside down! So chinese claims won't be considered as legitimated. Since the all world agrees that China will use her military to conquer, every big power is considering about containing her.
Time is getting short for you guys.

You mistake America and its toadies for the world.

Dream on Froggie. Come back 10, 20, 30 years from now and see who is contained. Keep talking like that and you will do China a big favor by allowing the Chinese patriots to have the evidence of foreign aggressions, especially from the US and Japan. That will give them the evidence for accelerating the militarization. China does not need to fear any country or countries if it is properly armed.

[Asianfrog]

You mistake America and its toadies for the world.

Dream on Froggie. Come back 10, 20, 30 years from now and see who is contained. Keep talking like that and you will do China a big favor by allowing the Chinese patriots to have the evidence of foreign aggressions, especially from the US and Japan. That will give them the evidence for accelerating the militarization. China does not need to fear any country or countries if it is properly armed.

1/ Why not bring your claims to an international court ,if you have indisputable evidence (historical ones ) ? Why are you stressing on China future might to impose your will to small countries ? You just want to rule the world, so you meet more and more opposition Your mask is off now, the world realizes China's fraud when she says that her rise will be peaceful.
2/_UE starts investigation for dumping in solar panels in China ,it is believed to be a very big issue. The US too are scrutenizing Chinese industries . In the meantime, Japan is pouring money in Vietnam and US want Vietnam to join the Trans Pacific Partenership by the end of year . In a short time , your major markets will be less reliant to made in China . Less income to China, less to PLA too. More and more politics and unions ask their industries to set back productions and governments to raise more taxes on imports.Things start to get bad to China .
3/Some others questions;
a/ How reliable are Chines arms ? Maybe they are like "Tofu bridges" !
b/ How long would PLA hold under heavy fire ,tactically wise? Since across the board, promotion in the military goes with corruption from non commisionned all the way to the top ! Tactical merit or gallantry do not matter only money and relations.

Now that people know the true nature of China's rise , they will act because the world can't afford another world war.

[Liang1a]

1/ Why not bring your claims to an international court ,if you have indisputable evidence (historical ones ) ? Why are you stressing on China future might to impose your will to small countries ? You just want to rule the world, so you meet more and more opposition Your mask is off now, the world realizes China's fraud when she says that her rise will be peaceful.

This question has already been asked and answered many times. But I'll answer it again for the last time. China will not go to the World Court for the same reason why America will not go to the World Court if Mexico claimed California because it is facetious and frivolous. America would have nothing to gain and everything to lose even though the chance of losing is practically nil. It only makes America look silly.

Vietnam is small but it is also aggressive. There is no reason why China shuold hesitate to slap down smaller countries if they are aggressive. Furthermore, there are only a few countries who are invading Chinese territories. These are Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, and India. They are all occupying Chinese territories that have been part of China for hundreds if not thousands of years.

The reason why the situation is so chaotic all around China is due to the obsession of the current CCP government with peace. Hu and Wen simply will not consider defending China with force. They have fallen into the trap set by America and Vietnam and other invading countries. They keep wanting to pacify these thuggish countries with assurances of no use of force. The result is even more aggression. The Chinese people are now wiser. They now tell the world that China is the victim and will now begin to use force to defend its territories. All the world now know the truth. China's enemies can continue to blow smoke and propaganda of China's "aggressiveness" and wanting to rule the world. But who cares? If China can rule the world, then so much the better. At least there will be no more attacks like the West that had wiped out half the peoples of the world and enslaved the other half over the last several hundred years. If China rules the world, then the rule will be a benevolent one based on justice and prosperity.

All the talks of China's design to rule the world is nothing more than reverse psychology to trick it into disarming itself so its enemies such as Vietnam can better rob it of its sovereign territories. Hu and Wen had been duped. Now, hopefully, the new team of leadership coming in next year will be smarter and do what is necessary to rearm China and defend its sovereign territories with vigor. It is time to teach a more painful lesson to Vietnam and other invaders of China.

2/_UE starts investigation for dumping in solar panels in China ,it is believed to be a very big issue. The US too are scrutenizing Chinese industries . In the meantime, Japan is pouring money in Vietnam and US want Vietnam to join the Trans Pacific Partenership by the end of year . In a short time , your major markets will be less reliant to made in China . Less income to China, less to PLA too. More and more politics and unions ask their industries to set back productions and governments to raise more taxes on imports.Things start to get bad to China .

I had said repeatedly that China must reduce exports and concentrate on domestic development. China's "made BY China" exports cannot exceed $1 trillion. This is not because China cannot produce trillions of dollars of exports but the rest of the world doesn't have the money to buy trillions of dollars of products from China. The only way for China to give its 1.5 billion people by 2040 the highest standard of living in the world is by allowing the Chinese to be the most productive in the world and produce the largest quantities of goods and services of the highest quality for themselves to consume. China can produce $100 trillion or 300 trillion yuan of goods and services for Chinese people to consume which would make China's economy twice as big as the rest of the world combined. From this China can tax 20% to 25% to provide the best social security system in the world as well as the biggest R&D in the world to advance China's technologies to the forefront of the world. And with just 2% of its $100 trillion economy, China can spend $2 trillion for military to maintain a military that is twice to thrice as big as the rest of the world combined.

It is vital for other countries to do exports because they lack food or energy or raw materials or high tech products. But China can be self-sufficient in all these so it does not need to exports to earn the money to pay for any of these imported things. This is China's unique advantage over such countries as Japan or India. I hope the Chinese leaders can see this and so stop squandering China's resources in exports that earn useless foreign currencies that can only be used to buy foreign government debts.

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3/Some others questions;
a/ How reliable are Chines arms ? Maybe they are like "Tofu bridges" !
b/ How long would PLA hold under heavy fire ,tactically wise? Since across the board, promotion in the military goes with corruption from non commisionned all the way to the top ! Tactical merit or gallantry do not matter only money and relations.

Now that people know the true nature of China's rise , they will act because the world can't afford another world war.

You'll know how reliable Chinese arms are when we go to war. American arms have been used only in fighting second rate or third rate militaries such as Afghanistan or Iraq. Americans have been beaten by Chinese in Korea. And before that American Merrill's Marauders fighting in Burma was trapped by the Japnese and had to be rescued by the Chinese who defeated the Japnese imperial army and stopped its westward march into India. Chinese militaries have accelerated its live fire drills in all types of weapon systems including electromagnetic warfare. The test conditions were realistic and harsh but the Chinese weapons came through with flying colors. If you want to prove the Chinese wrong then by all means declare war on China and we'll find out how good Chinese arms are. Since 1943 China had won all its wars against Japan in China and Burma; against Vietnam, against India; against America in Korea, etc. Thanks for your concern about the welfare of the Chinese promotion system. But you need not fret your little mind. I'm sure Chinese military can function well enough. But just in case, it is obviously good to shake out the system by testing it in a small scale war with Vietnam. If China can wipe out the Vietnamese air force and navy within a few hours then it will do well enough in a fight against even America.

In the end, China's rise has been too peaceful. It is irrational which has provoked all the heinous invasions all around China by piddling little countries. China should not fall into the reverse psychology trap set by America and its toadies and bind its own hands and feet. Let Chinese military free to defend the motherland. The world is not stupid. They know false propaganda when they hear it from the Vietnamese who are actually occupying Chinese sovereign territories. The world respects power. So let China show itself to be powerful in military might. China can show its benevolence by not attacking others without just cause.

This post has been edited by Liang1a: Sep 6 2012, 12:01 PM

[baal]

China gives America no credit for defeating Japan during WWII. China thinks it defeated Japan all by itself.

[Liang1a]

China gives America no credit for defeating Japan during WWII. China thinks it defeated Japan all by itself.

America likes to take credit for defeating Japan. But other than killing a few hundred thousand civilians with its 2 nuclear bombs the Americans killed no more than a few tens of thousand Japnese soldiers in the Pacific islands. China killed some 3 million Japnese soldiers. China was already repeatedly defeating Japnese soldiers in regular pitched battles in the Japnese effort to capture Chang Sha in southern China. Japan was like Germany where the soldiers were getting to be teenagers.

America killed hundreds of thousands of Japnese civilians with its 2 nuclear bombs. But it killed less than 100,000 Japnese soldiers in various Pacific islands. And as I said, Merrill's Maurauders had to be rescued by the Chinese when they were on the point of being wiped out by the Japnese. America did supply China with arms which allowed China to defeat the Japnese. But America also charged exhorbitant prices for the arms. It was just business for the Americans.

[baal]

[color="#006400"][/color]

America likes to take credit for defeating Japan. But other than killing a few hundred thousand civilians with its 2 nuclear bombs the Americans killed no more than a few tens of thousand Japnese soldiers in the Pacific islands. China killed some 3 million Japnese soldiers. China was already repeatedly defeating Japnese soldiers in regular pitched battles in the Japnese effort to capture Chang Sha in southern China. Japan was like Germany where the soldiers were getting to be teenagers.

America killed hundreds of thousands of Japnese civilians with its 2 nuclear bombs. But it killed less than 100,000 Japnese soldiers in various Pacific islands. And as I said, Merrill's Maurauders had to be rescued by the Chinese when they were on the point of being wiped out by the Japnese. America did supply China with arms which allowed China to defeat the Japnese. But America also charged exhorbitant prices for the arms. It was just business for the Americans.

Your attitude shows why China will never have any friends. China is not gracious. It is insolent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7fYQzFFFq0

[Liang1a]

Your attitude shows why China will never have any friends. China is not gracious. It is insolent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7fYQzFFFq0

Your attitude shows why America is less popular than China. America is not gracious. It is insolent.

[baal]

Your attitude shows why America is less popular than China. America is not gracious. It is insolent.

Let's be friends. Put your weapons down and let's have a beer. I'll teach you the ways of peace, and you will practice war no more. China will be loved if it's peaceful. China will be hated if it's not peaceful. Peace is best.