Failure of Asian fathers Options

[Zdrav]

In the American minority community, people often talk about the failure of black fathers due to the high rate of broken families in the black community. I'm wondering if we're not paying enough attention to the failures of Asian fathers in America. Most of what I'm about to say is from personal experience, but I don't think that my case is that unique or exceptional.

I've never truly had a conversation with my dad, at least on anything that important. There were no father-son moments when I was growing up, and I get the feeling that he thought that spending time with children was women's work. He used to hit my mom a lot when I was growing up, mainly due to stress at work. In my late teens, he mellowed out considerably and deferred to me on everything, probably because he was guilty over his actions in the past in terrorizing our family. Thankfully, he doesn't engage in physical abuse anymore, but I also cannot view him as any kind of authority figure.

My dad is pretty much the scowling loner Asian nerd that you saw in high school or college. My mom was, and is, a beautiful woman who was set up with my dad in her late 20s and they hastily married because it was time. Plus, since he was a doctor and from a somewhat reputable family, he was a catch! Never mind the fact that he had no social skills and could not entertain anybody if his life depended on it. He did well in his studies, and therefore, he was entitled to a pretty bride.

I realize that a lot of dads fail to live up to their children's expectations. But I feel like the failure of an Asian father is even more influential because a lot of Asian families are isolated in America. They don't have a lot of relatives or family friends or roots in their surroundings. My dad was the only Asian male role model figure I had while growing up, and he was a huge letdown. I didn't have anybody else — not even a vicarious figure in the media — to turn to. I suspect a lot of other Asian kids in America were/are in similar circumstances as I was.

People on these forums always complain about outmarriage and lack of pride and all that, and I can't help wondering if one of the big causes is underwhelming Asian fathers. Asian boys grow up without an admirable figure who can teach them to become socially-desirable people, and Asian girls grow up equating Asian adult males with coldness, woodenness, and undesirability.

What do you think?

[GentleWind]

I fail to see the failure of parenting on father part is ethnicty (Asian) based.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

wow im the opposite. i was one of those kids who went around saying my dad is the greatest. i actually have a small inferiority complex towards him. hes 3-4 inches taller than me, has 1 more university degree than me, is concert level pianist (furthest i got was grd 5 violin and piano lol)....to make things more skewed my biggest weakness historically was my temper and he was known for being very calm and peaceful.

that is until its business. he and his brother are pretty ruthless. so many times i thought its easier just to give into complaints or w/e even if we are not wrong. but their approach is more like, if you want to fight us then prepare to go to court, and pay for it if you lose.

im pretty confident in my abilities and somewhat arrogant, but i know when someone is flat out better than i am and deserves my respect. my dad by far is the person i most respect in this world. im really thankful that i have the opportunity to work in the family business and spend so much time going to work with him right after university.

in relationship, my dad taught me how to be a loving husband/father. i cant honestly say ive adapted it, with my past relationships lol. but im working on it and he is what my goal is.

This post has been edited by Mid-Night_Sun: Sep 15 2011, 10:53 PM

[Zdrav]

I fail to see the failure of parenting on father part is ethnicty (Asian) based.

My point is that the detrimental effect that an inadequate Asian father has on his children is more serious than an equally inadequate white father has on his children because Asian children are much less likely to find adult role models of the same racial group in America, particularly young Asian men.

[GentleWind]

My point is that the detrimental effect that an inadequate Asian father has on his children is more serious than an equally inadequate white father has on his children because Asian children are much less likely to find adult role models of the same racial group in America, particularly young Asian men.

But how is that unique to Asians?

[Zdrav]

But how is that unique to Asians?

It's more of a minority problem than specifically an Asian problem, but I'm trying to differentiate the impact of an inadequate Asian father and an inadequate white father. The white children will likely have uncles, family friends, and tons of public figures to look up to instead. Asian children, on the other hand, are more likely to not have that.

This post has been edited by Zdrav: Sep 16 2011, 09:29 AM

[SkyBurial]

Nope, I never had a problem with my dad.

This post has been edited by SkyBurial: Sep 16 2011, 09:39 AM

[GentleWind]

The white children will likely have uncles, family friends, and tons of public figures to look up to instead. Asian children, on the other hand, are more likely to not have that.

How do we know that Asian people don't have big or extended families?

How about public figures who have surpassed racial boundaries in their thinking?

It depends what's being taught to you. Sure if one figure can teach you right, then you will be alright. Having many people does not equate good teachings. The role models you admire must have some good qualities. If you follow their bad habits, you will have problems. So I think we have to move beyond the human mistakes and learn from it. It is important to recognize that human do make mistakes. It is important to move beyond the physical appearance. Like "oh you are black, I cannot learn from you." And it is also important to not attach to your role models. Just think that we are here to learn.

Sorry for the preaching. It is a habit.

[Yer]

So doesn't this apply only to Asian families that are isolated?

Even in the Midwest, I've noticed that there's usually at least one Korean church in every town. In most sizable cities, it's almost impossible to grow up Asian without coming into contact with other Asians (outside of your family). If you're saying that every single Asian male you meet in town is a nobody or a loser (hypothetically - you didn't say that), I would find that hard to believe.

[AsiaticGlory]

It's more of a minority problem than specifically an Asian problem, but I'm trying to differentiate the impact of an inadequate Asian father and an inadequate white father. The white children will likely have uncles, family friends, and tons of public figures to look up to instead. Asian children, on the other hand, are more likely to not have that.

There would be no more Asian male figures if we mix with non-Asians.
If you think Asian sons have it bad, you should look at mixed people.

[MelodyQ]

Many Asian fathers believe that taking care of the child is the mother’s role. Also, because they’re in Western society, they feel that they don’t know what their kids are learning in school because it is different than what they have gone through when they were in their childhood to early adulthood years back in Asia…not to mention the difference between the culture of the Western society that the kids grew up in versus the Asian culture that the father grew up in. Most fathers just don’t want to feel ‘useless’ or ‘ignorant’, so they barely have any conversations with their kids.

I think this is further aggravated with Asian fathers who have reputable professions. They were strict with themselves, so they turn to be strict with their own children because that is what they believe is best for their children’s future. They think that hugging and giving their children affection is being “too gentle”. Like you, my bf’s dad is in a reputable profession (he’s a lawyer) and he told me he barely had any conversations with his dad. He hates talking about his dad so we never talk much about him. I guess at the same time because they are in professions which require so much of their day, they do not have time to bond with their kids, nor do they have time to try and understand what constitutes as standard behaviour for their children…so they would feel distant with their children.

I have this other friend in a similar situation, and she never really talked with her dad, and he is really strict with her and her brother. I remember one time when I went to her house and she attempted to introduce me to her dad. Her dad barely looked up from the newspaper and just sort of grunted as a greeting, and went back to his newspaper. Her mom was very friendly though. A lot of her friends are kinda scared of her dad.

[InitialDJay]

the op's story is hard to believe. his dad is a doc but uses to hit his mum. sound like an abusive doc, contrary to my belief that majority of doc are calm and compose.

contrary to your circumstance, i have a deep relationship with my pap that goes beyond having father-son conversation/hugging/special moment/etc... most of it because it is cheesy as i am not a little kid anymore, but also due to him being away frequently when i was growing up and still is. yet our father-son relationship i want to say is the indirect expectation of me as a person, a son, someone who carry his blood. similar wise, i don't need him to talk a lot to me to understand that he is my role model. the way he conducts himself, his action, and his responsibility as a husband and a father is already enough for me to idolize and recognize that he is someone i'm aiming to become someday. therefore when i have kids, i raise my kids the same way. not through words, but action by myself.

[GentleWind]

I will say Asian fathers are hard workers and most don't hold high paying positions such as doctors and lawyers. After work, they might be too tired to interact with their kids.

[shreddedsquid]

Most of these responses are from sons. I'm interested in what the daughters out there think.

Me personally, my dad was pretty cool. I was never 'close' with him in the sense, but I get along with him pretty well, more so than my mom because back in the day my mom would criticize me about every frikkin thing, whereas my dad just accepted that I am who I am. If he didn't like what I was doing, or how I was behaving, then he'd let me know. Both of my parents were fairly strict, but my mom was the one that dished out the beatings. He is pretty laid back, until you piss him off - THEN he was pretty intimidating. Never beat my mom, but then again my mom never took $hit from nobody especially not from him.

As far as raising the kids - my dad had a better job, so it was my mom who worked the harder job and she didn't get home till later in the evening. My dad was the one who "supervised" us when he got home. He was the one that took us to/picked us up and attended our concerts, award ceremonies, after school activities, to the store, etc. Then he would chill out in front of the TV until my mom got home, lol.

Now both my parents were never affectionate with us until these past few years. They mellowed out and we moved out, I guess they miss us. But I remember back in the day when I effed up pretty bad and I would worry over it, my mom would make it worst by berating me. My dad would know how I felt cause I knew I effed up and he would just tell me "baw bpenh yang doh" - in Lao, means "don't worry about it"/"it's not a problem" or "no big deal". Lao equivalent to "Hakuna matata" lol.

I get my work ethic from both my parents, but what I learned from my dad is integrity and to honor your word. If you say you're going to do something, do it. I remember when I was in high school, my transmission went out while I was driving up a curvy hill. Next thing I know I rolled back into a ditch and damaged the fence of a house. I didn't know it but he had talked to the homeowners and told them he would fix their fence. Couple days later, he put up a new fence for them.

To address the original poster - even though I'm not affectionate or talk a lot with my dad, I do respect him a lot. I would say he's pretty balanced. Typical stoic asian father, doesn't show much affection but when I did something he was proud of he'd let me know. I'd prefer that than those fathers' that dote and treat their daughters like their "little princess" that can do no wrong, cause girls like that can grow up manipulative, bratty, spoiled or skanked out.
So no, I don't equate Asian men as cold, stiff, or undesirable. None of the Asian guys I've known are like that. However, its just the way I grew up - in a pretty diverse area with diverse friends - I'm open and attracted to all types of men, regardless of race. If we click, we click. It is what it is.
My parents would prefer Lao/Asian but they've said that it really doesn't matter what he is as long as he's respectful, respectable and that he treats me well and takes care of his fam, and I wouldn't settle for anything less.

[boobu]

some people had good dads and some people had bad dads, eh? it doesn't negate anyone's experiences because one had a good or bad dad, so therefore the other's good or bad experiences are not legitimate. that's ridiculous.

or some father's had some good things and not so good things about them. it all is weighed on how much the bad or good outweighed eachother too. some are great dads and some not so good.

[samnang]

my father is incredibly cold and detached.

never abusive, but never affectionate either. he just provided me with food and shelter, nothing really more.

maybe it helped me become more self-reliant and resourceful as i had to learn $hit on my own as a child: learned to cook, clean, do laundry, drive, fix cars, etc entirely by myself.


but it may have been a factor in my general unfriendly demeanor towards others. i'm not mr. social butterfly sunshine, although i want to be.

This post has been edited by samnang: Sep 19 2011, 08:36 PM

[Esme]

In the American minority community, people often talk about the failure of black fathers due to the high rate of broken families in the black community. I'm wondering if we're not paying enough attention to the failures of Asian fathers in America. Most of what I'm about to say is from personal experience, but I don't think that my case is that unique or exceptional.

I've never truly had a conversation with my dad, at least on anything that important. There were no father-son moments when I was growing up, and I get the feeling that he thought that spending time with children was women's work. He used to hit my mom a lot when I was growing up, mainly due to stress at work. In my late teens, he mellowed out considerably and deferred to me on everything, probably because he was guilty over his actions in the past in terrorizing our family. Thankfully, he doesn't engage in physical abuse anymore, but I also cannot view him as any kind of authority figure.

My dad is pretty much the scowling loner Asian nerd that you saw in high school or college. My mom was, and is, a beautiful woman who was set up with my dad in her late 20s and they hastily married because it was time. Plus, since he was a doctor and from a somewhat reputable family, he was a catch! Never mind the fact that he had no social skills and could not entertain anybody if his life depended on it. He did well in his studies, and therefore, he was entitled to a pretty bride.

I realize that a lot of dads fail to live up to their children's expectations. But I feel like the failure of an Asian father is even more influential because a lot of Asian families are isolated in America. They don't have a lot of relatives or family friends or roots in their surroundings. My dad was the only Asian male role model figure I had while growing up, and he was a huge letdown. I didn't have anybody else — not even a vicarious figure in the media — to turn to. I suspect a lot of other Asian kids in America were/are in similar circumstances as I was.

People on these forums always complain about outmarriage and lack of pride and all that, and I can't help wondering if one of the big causes is underwhelming Asian fathers. Asian boys grow up without an admirable figure who can teach them to become socially-desirable people, and Asian girls grow up equating Asian adult males with coldness, woodenness, and undesirability.

What do you think?

Regarding your personal experiences, they are what they are. They're YOURS. Not every Asian family's father was or is like yours. Sadly your situation can happen to any race of a person. In regards to not strong enough Asian male figures, I agree. There aren't enough....particularly in Western societies. I usually see one extreme to another (extremely ghetto, extremely "White wash", or extremely Nerdy/mama's boy). It truly is sad really.

Secondly, depending on what cultural background your family is from plays a HUGE part to. For example, most Chinese guys who are more "culturally traditional" that I see/encounter really can be somewhat reserved/cold to their women & children but yet some other Asian from a different ethnic group would be really interactive with their spouse & children in public.

My best advice, if you ever get a chance to travel more (even to heavily dense Asian populations) around America check out how different ALL Asians really can be from one another. After that, come back and share with us to see if your opinion changes.

[AJLee613]

an admirable being does not always need to be present in order to be admired. when your father pushes himself to the point of breaking and hitting his own family, u also need to think about the kind of position he must have been in at the time. 1st gen asians are generally poor and come with nothing. working 18 hour days in order to do what? do you think he worked himself into that kind of stress level for his health? he was doing it for his family.

the level of determination asian parents show in their work which is used to FEED the children and house them is beyond admirable, dont be jealous of the white boy's father who was given great chances and opportunities from the start and who's metal was never tested as many asian fathers are tested.

it is also traditional for a father to be distant from the family (at least in the korean culture). basically a respectable good man to be looked at from afar showing only dignity in times where he can be seen by his family as to set a good example, which is an extreamly hard thing to do, to purposfully distance yourself from the family you love in order to show your child a man without flaws by hiding them away, giving you somthing to look up to a role to match in it's seemly perfect state.

culture has changed since these olden times, but many 1st gens probably who grew up traditionally would have had this embedded into their ideal of being a father since they were young. the added stress breaks this down into being distant untill times of break down, causing the family not to see the pain of the father or weakness, but anger and anger alone. its never good to have domestic abuse, but people must also understand where this comes from.

[boobu]

an admirable being does not always need to be present in order to be admired. when your father pushes himself to the point of breaking and hitting his own family, u also need to think about the kind of position he must have been in at the time.

you need to shut the fu-k up, spineless turd. there is no excuse for hitting others unless it's self-defense. i don't care how overworked someone is or how much stress they are under. fu-king crazy.

if his wife was no good or he couldn't control his violence, he should just leave her.

This post has been edited by boobu: Sep 25 2011, 09:25 AM

[Zdrav]

Regarding your personal experiences, they are what they are. They're YOURS. Not every Asian family's father was or is like yours. Sadly your situation can happen to any race of a person. In regards to not strong enough Asian male figures, I agree. There aren't enough....particularly in Western societies. I usually see one extreme to another (extremely ghetto, extremely "White wash", or extremely Nerdy/mama's boy). It truly is sad really.

I agree that my experience is not universal, but then again, I don't think that my experience was that unique either. The scary thing is that when I was young, there were many times when I thought that if we were a white family, then my life would've been a lot better. Luckily, I quickly outgrew that simplistic mode of thought, but what if I hadn't? As my resentment towards my dad built up over the years, there were no other Asian male role models for me to look up to. I instead had to build up my own ideal Asian male image that was diametrically opposed to everything my dad was.

I love my dad, but he was and still is everything that I don't want to be as an Asian man.

Sometimes, I wonder if I had been born a girl, would I be one of those "sellouts" who uses these events as a rationale to go chase after a white fantasy?

This post has been edited by Zdrav: Sep 25 2011, 11:37 AM