Spratly Options

[直隸總督]

If my memory serves me right, China has rightful control over the entire South China Sea.

the South China Sea basically consists of 東沙群島 Pratas Islands, 西沙群島 Paracel Islands, 中沙群島 ( i forgot its english name) and 南沙群島 Spartly Islands.
According to ROC's South Sea ( South China Sea) policy and CCP Ministry of Diplomacy, China's sovereignty over the entire South Sea is undebatable. We can trace all the way back to 2nd century b.c. ( Han Dynasty). Chinese already discovered Paracel and Spartly. By 7th century A.D ( Tang dyansty), Chinese had already been living on these two groups of Islands, and Spartly was already a part of Guangdong province. In Yuan dynasty, Paracel was named 千里長沙 Qian Li Chang Sha, Spartly was named 萬里石塘 Wan Li Shi Tang. And by Ming and Qing dynasty, the South China Sea islands were all under the jursidction of Chinese government. ( you may refer to 瓊州府誌 or 萬州誌, published in Ming dynasty).
Besides, there are also historical records both from China and foreign countries. Such as Zheng He's 鄭和航海圖 ( Navigation Map of Zheng He), Qing dynasty's 四海總圖 ( General Map of 4 seas), 皇清各直省分圖 ( Map of Imperial Qing's provinces) and 大清一統天下圖 ( Map of Great Qing Unification). plus foreign sources such as J.Johnson of USA, the appendix map in his book 東方航行者 ( I don't know the english name either). and British Navy's China Sea Pilot. In both sources, they all refer South China Sea as "China Sea". very obvious.
After WW2, According to the Cairo Conference, Japanese returned the islands of South Sea to the government of Republic of China. In 1947, the government drew out a U-type boundaries of South China Sea, which covers from 109°30'E to 117°50'E and 3°40'N to 21°58'N.

This post has been edited by 直隸總督: Mar 6 2004, 02:10 PM

[Byron]

Vietnam occupies twice as many islands of Spratley as China. Oh and Vietnam owns the islands and even has a deed to the islands as well. France had conquered the islands and gave it to Vietnam.

Sure China may have discovered it first, but they lost control of it. Just like say, California belonged to Mexico, but the U.S took it a long time ago.

Only now that there is a U.N then this kind of thing shouldn't happen again. So in the case of the Spratley islands it was already Vietnam's when the U.N came into existance.

This post has been edited by Byron: Feb 29 2004, 09:03 PM

[DAI_VIET]

Vietnam occupies twice as many islands as China. Oh and Vietnam owns the islands and even has a deed to the islands as well. France has conquered the islands and gave it to Vietnam.

I believe that is right. And if my memory serves, I read somewhere that in the 1960s, at a conference somewhere in Europe, probably Geneva, the United Nations declared those islands belong to Vietnam and the countries also signed it, including the USA, former USSR, China, and Vietnam.

[Byron]

Just because it's called the "South China sea" doesn't mean China owns it. It's just a name of a body of water. Does the Indian ocean belong to India?

[直隸總督]

Major players :
- legit ownders : China ( ROC and PRC )
- illegal occupants/claimants : Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia
- someone who's trying to mess up : U.S.A

China's Claims :
(As stated above.)

Vietnam's Claims :
Vietnam also uses the archaepological "evidences", claiming the entire archipelago. It's been said that in 1815 the emperor of Annam, Gia Long, sent an expedition force and occupied the islands, which they referred as Truong Sa. In 1933, French annexed the Spratly islands, therefore Vietnam inherited the islands from the French. In 1973, Spratly islands were declared to be part of the Phuoc Tuy province. Later then it claimed the entire archipelago as a dictrict of Khanh Hoa province.

Malaysia's Claims :
Malaysia current has control of three islands but it claims the whole chain. Based on Law of the Sea Convention, the Spratlys are a part of its continental shelf, therefore Malaysia should be the rightful owner.

Philippines' Claims :
Philippines claimed the Spratlys with the excuse that in 1956, they sent an expedition and occupied some of the islands. A Manila lawyer, Tomas Clomas, named them Kalayaan, which means freedomland. In 1968, Filipino troops were sent to Kalayaan. Since then informal claims had been put forth by the government. In 1978, Filipino government officially declared the Spratly Islands were part of Palawan province " by virtue of their presence on the continental margin of the archipelago", and claimed that the islands were no man's land and free to be claimed.

USA's Claims:
Anything anti-China is good. In 1976, U.S.A stated that China invaded and captured the Paracel Islands from Vietnam, while Paracel Islands were originally under the jursidiction of China. And Americans also described the event as following " Disputes have been propelled by an aggressive China, eager to meet growing energy demands that outstript its supply capacity. Moreover, China's historical interpretation of its sovereignty rights ignores current international law."

Conclusion/Counter-proofs :
- first, what does it say in Law of Sea Convention? It doesn't not state that any islands on the same continental shelf shall belong to the same country. If by that reason, then Philippines should be long to Malaysia or vice versa. And there's no rights granted in the law that any country can extend its territories over to other countries just because they're on the same continental shelf. Law of Sea Convention also causes many problems such as the territorial waters of countries are overlapped ( conflicting), which is also a cause of the South Sea dispute. Moreover, USA has already violated it by flying spy planes over China's territorial waters, but the USA government apparently has not faced any type of formal charge. Therefore, the Law of Sea Convention proves to be inadequate, it must be revised. Meanwhile, this internation "law" has no real values to be regarded.
- Cuurent status : PRC holds 6 islands, ROC holds Tai Ping Island ( Itu Aba island, the largest island in Spratly), Vietnam illegally occupies 17 islands , philippines 9, malaysia 3.
- According to Cairo Conference and Potsdam, Japan had to return all its illegal posssessions back to China , including Manzhou and Taiwan. The Spratlys at the time was a part of Japanese Taiwan colony. Therefore , of course, Spratly Islands were also returned to China along with Taiwan.
- From USA media, it's been claiming that Malaysia and Philippines' claims are all well-coordinated and defined. While China ( both ROC and PRC) has no clear definition of their claims. But in fact, early in 1946 and 1947, the Chinese government had already drawn out the correct longtitudes and latitudes of our territories. Not even mentioning our sovereignty in previous dynasties.
- It's funny how USA keeps saying "aggressive China", while ROC government in Taiwan also uses almost an exactly the same claims as the PRC. No one ever called it "aggressive Taiwan".

This post has been edited by 直隸總督: Mar 6 2004, 02:10 PM

[DAI_VIET]

Vietnam illegally occupies 17 islands

I don't know if that's such a good word to describe Vietnam's right to occupy the islands. Those do belong to Vietnam, just read what the U.S. says. They were the eye-witnesses when China aggressively took the islands by force.

[直隸總督]

I don't know if that's such a good word to describe Vietnam's right to occupy the islands. Those do belong to Vietnam, just read what the U.S. says. They were the eye-witnesses when China aggressively took the islands by force.

U.S itself is very biased.

[tongbao_vince]

Wow that's some pretty strong research evidence you've provided there, 直隸總督.

[DAI_VIET]

I don't know if that's such a good word to describe Vietnam's right to occupy the islands. Those do belong to Vietnam, just read what the U.S. says. They were the eye-witnesses when China aggressively took the islands by force.

U.S itself is very biased.

Why would they want to side Vietnam? They just speak the truth.

[直隸總督]

I don't know if that's such a good word to describe Vietnam's right to occupy the islands. Those do belong to Vietnam, just read what the U.S. says. They were the eye-witnesses when China aggressively took the islands by force.

U.S itself is very biased.

Why would they want to side Vietnam? They just speak the truth.

They don't want to side with Vietnam, they just need some anti-China excuses.

[Kulong]

I don't know if that's such a good word to describe Vietnam's right to occupy the islands. Those do belong to Vietnam, just read what the U.S. says. They were the eye-witnesses when China aggressively took the islands by force.

U.S itself is very biased.

Why would they want to side Vietnam? They just speak the truth.

They don't necessarily want to side with Vietnam but they don't want China to be strong. It's kind of like when you're dealing with two enemies, you'd rather want the weaker one to have more weapon than the stronger one right? It's easier to deal with two not-so-strong enemies than one weak and one really strong one.

[DAI_VIET]

I don't know if that's such a good word to describe Vietnam's right to occupy the islands. Those do belong to Vietnam, just read what the U.S. says. They were the eye-witnesses when China aggressively took the islands by force.

U.S itself is very biased.

Why would they want to side Vietnam? They just speak the truth.

They don't necessarily want to side with Vietnam but they don't want China to be strong. It's kind of like when you're dealing with two enemies, you'd rather want the weaker one to have more weapon than the stronger one right? It's easier to deal with two not-so-strong enemies than one weak and one really strong one.

The U.S. is just trying to speak the truth.

[直隸總督]

The U.S. is just trying to speak the truth.

Proofs?
USA has its own interest in South China Sea. It will always biased since it has interests on the whole damn globe.

This post has been edited by 直隸總督: Mar 1 2004, 11:06 PM

[tqt]

I remember after the Chinese invaded and took the Paracel island from Vietnam in 1974, they buried Chinese artifacts in the island to prove that Paracel was a Chinese property since the ancient time.

[直隸總督]

I remember after the Chinese invaded and took the Paracel island from Vietnam in 1974, they buried Chinese artifacts in the island to prove that Paracel was a Chinese property since the ancient time.

I remember the artifacts had always been there.

[Nam Quoc Son Ha]

With the newfound wealth and power projection, China's imperialistic ambition is again resurfacing. The Spratlys belonged to Vietnam and there are archaelogical evidences to back that up. China illegally invaded and occupied the Paracels and now wants to take all of the Spratlys. Being a bully will not serve China's interests on the global stage. South China Sea is a sea and not the Chinese playground.

[Nam Quoc Son Ha]

[quote=直隸總督,Mar 2 2004, 02:49 AM] [/QUOTE]
I remember the artifacts had always been there. [/quote]
LOL, I just hope you didn't put it there in the first place.

[drunk_on_tea]

The Vietnamese government are looking into building a city on the Spratly islands. I don't know who has the rightful claim to them but it appears as though the Phillippines officially claimed it first.

[DAI_VIET]

The Vietnamese government are looking into building a city on the Spratly islands. I don't know who has the rightful claim to them but it appears as though the Phillippines officially claimed it first.

Viets are building a city between Spratly and Paracel islands. I think Viets claimed it first.

[JMAC]

The Vietnamese government are looking into building a city on the Spratly islands. I don't know who has the rightful claim to them but it appears as though the Phillippines officially claimed it first.

I hope this doesn't cause any stupid conflict in the future...