the existence of Catholic God, Does Catholic God really exist? Options

[skepticguy]

Where and when?

In all likelihood, he's referring to this story in Matthew 15:21-28,

Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon." But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, "Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me." He answered, "It is not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs." She said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered her, "Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed instantly.

[wRiter Reverie]

^Hm... that woman's a smart one.

[sweetntwisted]

@Tran
Look, I don’t just want to target Christians but the majority of Christians who don’t believe in the right to choose really piss me off.
But I’m against anyone who doesn’t believe in women’s rights, it doesn’t matter if they are atheists or theists, man or woman.
But religious people bother me the most, I’m not just talking about Christians either.
The extremist Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews… it doesn’t matter…if their beliefs are prohibiting the advancement of women in society and are getting in the way of equal opportunities and rights then I have a problem with those beliefs.
And most religions today are based on patriarchal values and they do oppress women, they have always done so.
Religion is often used to as a tool to legitimize violence against women.
Those people need to question their views and beliefs. B/c perhaps those extremists are just misinterpreting their own religious texts or… perhaps not….in that case, I believe all religions should be banned!
If they are getting in the way of women’s rights movements then they definitely should be attacked, for sure!!!!!!!
However a religious person who is liberal and has an open mind doesn’t bother me at all.

This post has been edited by sweetntwisted: Feb 1 2006, 03:00 AM

[susan12]

[
However a religious person who is liberal and has an open mind doesn’t bother me at all.

[/quote]


I agree.
And one more point, if a religious person behave the same way as he delivery his teaching ( like Dalai Lama) then I still repect him as a moral role model.

On the other hand, if a religion try every dirty method to cover up bad priests ( like current Catholic and Vatican approach) , we should strike it and question its role in the society.

This post has been edited by susan12: Feb 1 2006, 05:31 AM

[ZamienTran]

My sincere word:

I don't hate God. But I question God's existence because I don't believe in Blind faith and I am not stupid as before.

I don't hate God. If God followers ,in the name of God, do good thing to the society like Christain, Budhism , then I support their existence.

Even something is not true , but its existence do good to the society , then why not support them.
On the other hand, some organization keep using religion to take advantage and fool us around, so we have to question its existence and question our stupidity of blind faith.

Blind faith can be deadly! That is the main cause of also sexual abused => Blind faith and blind trust!

Personally, I'm very sorry that your friend is a victim of the molestion of unholy scandal in the Catholic church history. And believe me I know how you feel and other victims feel like. But I also believe humans are humans. So Catholic priests, nuns, Buddhist monks or nuns, our pastors or religious leaders are humans just like you and me. And all humans have sins. The way that we think, we say and we do every momment of our life that commit sin, even though the small one.

Catholic priests are not perfect. They have to live in very stricted lifestyle. Celibate, pray and do church services not to think about sex. Can you stop having sex within a whole year or years. It would drive you crazy and nut. The Buddhist monks, they are disconnected from the outside world and live peaceful in their temples. But the Catholic priests are different than the Buddhist monks, they face the world around them daily or weekly. So SOME priests couldn't erase the temptation out of their minds when they near the young boys or girls. With largest number of priests of course, they do have the bad ones.

The Catholic Church has the history of scandals. That's right many people left the Church and started their own group to worship God with their belief. But please don't hate God, because of these HUMANS under their religious cloths. Tell you the truth, I don't have to depend my God to you or other people on here. God is God. He needs no man to depend him. Whoever done the bad deed to other man, he will be punished. I'm a Protestant. But even thought that Catholicism and Protestantism are not sharing exactly faith. But we both believe in Love, Forgiveniness and Sharing. I don't hate God and leave the Church because of these priest-men.

Believe me, I support the same-sex marriage and gay rights. And my church and other Christians condemn me for that cause. I have to face the hatred, the misunderstanding among us through the sermons, the teachings, the messages of my pastors and other Christians including my mom's. But God is God. I don't just drop my faith off because of these men. Nope.

If you want to look for God, don't use your fingers to type message up here or don't use your eyes to look. USE YOUR HEART, AND WILLINGNESS to seek God. He Himself will knock your soul's door.

Blind faith is a bad seed to grow in our pot. Also being studdborn and fooliness. Men can be evil, so can we. That's right, we need to God to guild our life on every step. The law will taken care of those priests and they will face the Judge at the end of their lives.

I hope you understand my sharing.

This post has been edited by ZamienTran: Feb 1 2006, 06:13 PM

[Jaimu-Jaimu]

@ZamienTran - You're instantly the most intelligent and credible Christian on this board. Thank you for your posts as they remind me of the good things that can be attributed to the faith when one doesn't blindly follow doctrine and actually thinks for themselves.

[pun187]

@ZamienTran - You're instantly the most intelligent and credible Christian on this board. Thank you for your posts as they remind me of the good things that can be attributed to the faith when one doesn't blindly follow doctrine and actually thinks for themselves. 

[sweetntwisted]

@ZamienTran - You're instantly the most intelligent and credible Christian on this board. Thank you for your posts as they remind me of the good things that can be attributed to the faith when one doesn't blindly follow doctrine and actually thinks for themselves. 

I don’t think him wanting people on here to "target the muslims instead" make him a credible christian or make him any better then me, susan or redstar who were "disrespecting" god. But good for him that he's semi-liberal and agrees with gay marriages and give women the choice to "kill their babies, if they wanted to". Well, I guess that's better then nothing... for now. But keep in mind that he said he is a convert and perhaps that's why he doesn't have blind faith.
It also doesn't change the fact that the majority of christians still don't believe in pro-choice or rights for gays. And they probably think like Mazzu and raiden deep down and do not have an open mind.

This post has been edited by sweetntwisted: Feb 2 2006, 10:25 AM

[Digital Insanity]

On the other hand, if a religion try every dirty method to cover up bad priests ( like current Catholic and Vatican approach) , we should strike it and question its role in the society.

You forgot the fact that the Vatican gave Hitler the blessing to commit the Holocaust.

[ZamienTran]

I don’t think him wanting people on here to "target the muslims instead" make him a credible christian or make him any better then me, susan or redstar who were "disrespecting" god. But good for him that he's semi-liberal and agrees with gay marriages and give women the choice to "kill their babies, if they wanted to".    Well, I guess that's better then nothing... for now. But keep in mind that he said he is a convert and perhaps that's why he doesn't have blind faith.
It also doesn't change the fact that the majority of christians still don't believe in pro-choice or rights for gays. And they probably think like Mazzu and raiden deep down and do not have an open mind.

SWEETNTWISTED, there are not only Christians against gay rights and abortion. There are also MUSLIMS, BUDDHISTS and other RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS. Well, Buddhism is gay friendly religion but Buddhism believes killing infant is a huge sin. So is Islam faith. But why we only hear and see Christian voices in these sensitive caces? Coz Buddhism and Islam are still the minority groups in America.

About credible Christian? Please, I want nothing from you guys. Disrepect my God or accept Him, it's your choice. I'm not here to judge you. I'm here only to share my belief. And you Atheists also do the same.

And talking women rights, Twisted, if you yap-yap like what you do now in Islamic countries. Your gurly azz should be in jail or getting beaten or even raped by now. Wanna me to show you some quotes about women in their holy Qu'ran? After you read them, you should thank uh... "the Mother ship"(?) that you live in this Christianize country.

This post has been edited by ZamienTran: Feb 2 2006, 06:00 PM

[ATL.com]

SWEETNTWISTED, there are not only Christians against gay rights and abortion. There are also MUSLIMS, BUDDHISTS and other RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS. Well, Buddhism is gay friendly religion but Buddhism believes killing infant is a huge sin. So is Islam faith.  But why we only hear and see Christian voices in these sensitive caces? Coz Buddhism and Islam are still the minority groups in America.

About credible Christian? Please, I want nothing from you guys. Disrepect my God or accept Him, it's your choice. I'm not here to judge you. I'm here only to share my belief. And you Atheists also do the same.

And talking women rights, Twisted, if you yap-yap like what you do now in Islamic countries. Your gurly azz should be in jail  or getting beaten or even raped by now. Wanna me to show you some quotes about women in their holy Qu'ran? After you read them, you should thank uh... "the Mother ship"(?) that you live in this Christianize country.

Oh this should be REALLY interesting. how about you show her these passages from the Quran. But do us ALL a favor an SHOW THE WHOLE PASSAGE not just a piece of it that can easily be taken out of context. because believe me i could show her some passages that she would be rather proud of. So let's go Zamien do your usually copy and paste hack job on the Quran so i can clarify it an save us all some time an unnecessary reading.

This post has been edited by ATL.com: Feb 2 2006, 06:06 PM

[sweetntwisted]

Yes show me Tran... I want to see the evidence that you have. Oh and if you want me to have ANY respect for you then you better start respecting me first, you can start by stop calling what I say yapping. You're the moral chrisitian but acting like a b!tch but the muslims on here haven't shown me any disrespect at all so why should I be angry at them? Doesn't make much sense does it? Change your ways first, understand?

This post has been edited by sweetntwisted: Feb 2 2006, 06:16 PM

[ATL.com]

Yes show me Tran... I want to see the evidence that you have. Oh and if you want me to have ANY respect for you then you better start respecting me first, you can start by stop calling what I say yapping. You're the moral chrisitian but acting like a b!tch but the muslims on here haven't shown me any disrespect at all so why should I be angry at them? Doesn't make much sense does it? Change your ways first, understand?

You have to give him a minute Sweet. He doesn't actually know the Quran he just goes to websites and copy and pastes whatever he finds

[ZamienTran]

You have to give him a minute Sweet. He doesn't actually know the Quran he just goes to websites and copy and pastes whatever he finds 

Well, why don't you rub the crystal ball and tell me the name of the website you accusing me that I copy and paste articles from?

SWEETNTWIST: Like I said early, if you nice to me, I'll be nice to you. You don't talk junk to me, I'll respect you. My promise.

This post has been edited by ZamienTran: Feb 3 2006, 12:35 AM

[ZamienTran]

WOMEN IN ISLAM FAITH

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”

Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

In some Islamic countries, if the man wants to divorce his wife, all he needs to send the simply text through phone: "I d4c U, I d4c U, I d4c U." like in Malaysia. He can also send you an email or letter to make the offical divorce statement.

At the dawn of Islam religion, non-Muslims girls were capture as slaves. These poor girls became their Muslims and their prophet Mohammad (R.I.P)'s sex toys and beaten.

Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Not only Muslim women must wear the veils. But also non-Muslim women: Christians, Jews, Atheists, Hindus... In some Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, etc, non-Muslims women are forced to wear veils. If you don't cover yourself, you will become a victim of hatecrimes.

Feminists like you, SWEETNTWISTED can't live in the Islamic countries. Either you will get shot or hiding yourself under the black veils. Female politicans'voices can only whisper. Women professionals have to work and live in the shadow of the man world. Women journalists are easy targets and victimes for terrorists, Islamic insurgents.

Who knows how many Hindu girls, Christians, Jews or Non-Muslim girls are being kiddnapped by Islamic insurgents to use them as lab mices for their testing weapons and bombs or sex toys?

Oh, no birth control pills for women in Islam world. So I don't think abortion is allowed here and there.

That's all for ya today!

[susan12]

"Catholic priests are not perfect. They have to live in very stricted lifestyle. "
That is untrue sistuation in Italy and Vatican!


"But God is God. I don't just drop my faith off because of these men. Nope."
But we have to be very causion for his follows becuase they hold the God's stick and direct our faith.

"The law will taken care of those priests and they will face the Judge at the end of their lives."
So far we don't see the priests who harmed my friend are being punished instead they are being protected by the church.

[susan12]

You forgot the fact that the Vatican gave Hitler the blessing to commit the Holocaust.

That is true!

[pun187]

WOMEN IN ISLAM FAITH

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”

1st of all what Tabari wrote was not the hadith,he wrote 30 volumes of tafsir(commentary) on the Qur'an, based on the Hadith,Therefore, his tafsir(comments) rests on hadith, as does his history and i know that the verse u posted here is not in its natural condition,it is totally mispronounced.We all know what bad translation can cause, take the Bible as an example

Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

Chapter 4(Al-Nesaa) Verse 15:"Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them."

It means,If a woman witnessed by four people in the act of committing adultery on four different occasions, with four different partners, represents a danger to public health. Such a woman is a depository of germs, and a health quarantine protects the society from her.A good example of an exit that saves a quarantined woman is marriage,someone may wish to marry her, and thus protect her and the society.
The Noble Quran makes it almost impossible to prove a woman guilty of lewdness, because the court needs at least four reliable witnesses to prove that she actually committed a sin by having illegal sex. The reason for that is because Islam recognizes the woman’s honor as something very serious and holy, and it must not be tampered with or joked with. The woman is innocent until 4 witnesses are presented to prove that she is guilty of sin.Islam takes any charge against women very seriously and doesn't forgive those who lie about it or even don't look 100% truthful about it .Read chapter 24 Verse 4
"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations) flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after,for such men are wicked transgressors."

Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Chapter 33(Al-Ahzab) Verse 59: "O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful."
draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies ,screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way??? 2

Not only Muslim women must wear the veils. But also non-Muslim women: Christians, Jews, Atheists, Hindus... In some Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, etc, non-Muslims women are forced to wear veils. If you don't cover yourself, you will become a victim of hatecrimes.

Where you got this Bull$hit from ??? I was in the so called Islamic countries (Morocco,U.A.E,Pakistan,Kenya/Mombasa,Turkey). I saw there "western women" wearing bikinis and playing Beach Volleyball!!! and ur telling me that "non Muslim" women are forced to wear veils

Feminists like you, SWEETNTWISTED can't live in the Islamic countries. Either you will get shot or hiding yourself under the black veils. Female politicans'voices can only whisper. Women professionals have to work and live in the shadow of the man world. Women journalists are easy targets and victimes for terrorists, Islamic insurgents.

again a load of Bull$hit!!! An example,the Islamic female leader Benazir Bhutto,she served as the prime minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Who knows how many Hindu girls, Christians, Jews or Non-Muslim girls are being kiddnapped by Islamic insurgents to use them as lab mices for their testing weapons and bombs or sex toys?

Oh, no birth control pills for women in Islam world. So I don't think abortion is allowed here and there.

That's all for ya today!

Who knows how many girls are being kidnapped by Hindus,Christians,Jews,Atheists ect. and are used as "sex toys" ???

This post has been edited by pun187: Feb 3 2006, 09:09 AM

[susan12]

1st of all what Tabari wrote was not the hadith,he wrote 30 volumes of tafsir(commentary) on the Qur'an, based on the Hadith,Therefore, his tafsir(comments) rests on hadith, as does his history and i know that the verse u posted here is not in its natural condition,it is totally mispronounced.We all know what bad translation can cause, take the Bible as an example
Chapter 4(Al-Nesaa) Verse 15:"Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them."

It means,If a woman witnessed by four people in the act of committing adultery on four different occasions, with four different partners, represents a danger to public health. Such a woman is a depository of germs, and a health quarantine protects the society from her.A good example of an exit that saves a quarantined woman is marriage,someone may wish to marry her, and thus protect her and the society.
The Noble Quran makes it almost impossible to prove a woman guilty of lewdness, because the court needs at least four reliable witnesses to prove that she actually committed a sin by having illegal sex. The reason for that is because Islam recognizes the woman’s honor as something very serious and holy, and it must not be tampered with or joked with. The woman is innocent until 4 witnesses are presented to prove that she is guilty of sin.Islam takes any charge against women very seriously and doesn't forgive those who lie about it or even don't look 100% truthful about it .Read chapter 24 Verse 4
"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations) flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after,for such men are wicked transgressors."
Chapter 33(Al-Ahzab) Verse 59: "O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that [B]they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful."[/B]
draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies ,screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way???  2
Where you got this Bull$hit from ??? I was in the so called Islamic countries (Morocco,U.A.E,Pakistan,Kenya/Mombasa,Turkey). I saw there "western women" wearing bikinis and playing Beach Volleyball!!! and ur telling me that "non Muslim" women are forced to wear veils
again a load of Bull$hit!!! An example,the Islamic female leader Benazir Bhutto,she served as the prime minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan
Who knows how many girls are being kidnapped by Hindus,Christians,Jews,Atheists ect. and are used as "sex toys" ???

2

[sweetntwisted]

SWEETNTWIST:  Like I said early, if you nice to me, I'll be nice to you. You don't talk junk to me, I'll respect you. My promise.

ZamienTran NO, I don't need to show respect to YOU first, you must prove yourself to me first, that's how that's going to work. You never replied to skeptic's post about evolution but you enjoyed continuing to attack me. It made you seem sexist and that's not really helping you, not when you're trying to get me to agree with you. 2
And I’m well aware of what’s happening in the some islamic countries today so you can save your efforts in trying to get my "girly azz" to be in pretend scenarios to try to shock me.

This post has been edited by sweetntwisted: Feb 3 2006, 09:47 AM