Japan-Korea Relations: Why the Hate? Options

[esk02]

SORRY, SEEMS TO BE THE WRONG PLACE TO POST. I HAVE MOVED THIS TOPIC TO THE JAPAN SERIOUS TALK FORUM

As I was surfing the net I bumped across this website and read some heated debate on the Mongolian forums about why there is widespread anti-Japanese sentiment throughout Asia. I've always been very interested in this topic, and so decided to post a reply of my own. But the topic was months old, and the thread seems to be closed. Then I thought, why not get a discussion going here in the Japanese Culture forums?

I'll repost exactly what I posted over there, and would really appreciate it if my Japanese brothers here provide me with their own perspectives on this matter, as I only speak from my own background as a Korean American living in Korea. To provide you with a bit of context, this was a response to a poster who argued that we should put the past atrocities of our forefathers behind us, and so anti-Japanese sentiment lasting to this day is unreasonable and unfounded. Here it is.

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I have just read your post and felt compelled enough to post a response, something I hardly ever do when browsing internet forums.

Unfounded anti-Japanese sentiment does indeed get out of hand within the Sinosphere and as you appropriately said, it is sickening, even for me as a Korean whose grandparents lived during the occupation. But inasmuch as I agree with a lot of what you are saying, perhaps you are really discounting the pain, suffering and anger felt by those who have been oppressed? I feel like your rather aloof attitude towards this issue is precisely why there is so much anti-Japanese sentiment even to this day. In terms of the way Japan has dealt with international relations of late is just that: aloofness. You will accept that it is human nature to expect an apology for a wrongdoing recieved. And, if you are indeed the knowledgable guy you seem to be, you will also accept that Japan during WW2 committed some hardcore war crimes that are arguably on par with those of Nazi Germany.

The general sentiment felt by the Chinese/Korean Japan haters is that Japan, unlike other belligerents in recent history, refuses to apologize in entirety for its wrongdoings, and instead takes precisely your type of evasive stance, "c'mon guys, it's all part of the past!" Correct me if I am wrong, but Japan has yet to apologize or provide compensation for its crimes; rather it has merely "acknowledged" the atrocities. And yes, there is big a difference b/w the two. It's like saying, "yes we massacred people, and yes thats wrong, but we're not necessarily sorry for it since it wasn't us per se". Read the 8/15 speeches by every single Japanese prime minister to date and you'll understand what I mean. The Chinese and Koreans have every right to be pissed when a national figure like Koizumi visits Yasukuni to bow and shed tears in front of some the sickest people ever to live; the very people who enslaved and humiliated my grandfathers (and you know I am not talking about your average Japanese soldier who died honorably for his country). What's the message??? I feel a strong undercurrent of ugly and bitter pride in this outright indifference to neighboring countries. The haters also have evry reason to be pissed when the Japanese government refuses any compensation whatsoever for the comfort women who were forcibly raped . day by day. Remeber, that comfort woman is some kid's grandmother today. You'd be pissed if you were that kid. Yet not only are they not compensated, in many cases the Japanese governemtn even denies this to be true.

Take a look at Germany. Holocaust denial is punishable by law. What about the United States? The U.S. goes out of their way to compensate for the pain caused by slavery with policies like affirmative action (although this is a slightly differen kind of issue). These countries have every right to say that what was the past was the past because they earned their clean sheets. Now take a look at Japan. For some reason Japan is the only one in denial, teaching their kids with skewed history textbooks romanticizing the war effort. See the difference? Koreans are under the impression that Japan is trying to really hard to forget and deny. There is a Korean saying that goes along the lines of, "he who strikes the blow easily forgets, but he who recieves it always remembers." Yes, the haters become dumb whiners if the belligerents had already apologized in 1945, but when they haven't, the "whining" is fully justified to this day, and the burden is inevitably on the Japanese folks of this day. But instead of an apology what we get see on TV is the prime minister bowing at Yasukuni when all of East Asia is watching in anger. Imagine the German prime minister bowing in front of Hitler's grave. Europe would be PISSED, no? Japan needs to come to terms with the uglier parts of its history, and exhibit actions which express its understanding of the pain of the oppressed in sincere fashion if it wants to be respected by her neighbors. She still doesn't in many ways. You say that Japan gets a bad rap exclusively in China and Korea, but that's because to others the issue isn't personal. Just as I acknowledge that Nazis were screwed up nutcases, but I don't have any reason to harbor hard feelings for Germans that perhaps the Jews or French might. I feel like in that sense you are implying that Koreans and Chinese are wrongfully trying to assign blame for pain at their inferiority on the Japanese who are somehow innocent from these past atrocities?

Now don't get me wrong, I personally love Japan. I travel over there more often than any other place to enjoy a good bowl of pork ramen or warm sake, and I have the utmost respect for their people in their soft spoken kindness, humility, and simple-minded (and I mean that in a good way) work ethic that I wish some Koreans learned from. I also see a lot of Japanese tourists in Korea who seem to have very pleasant experiences as well. With the exception of a mindlessly hating group of nationalists, young Japanese and Koreans get along fine today at the personal level; the problem is in the politics, the grander scheme of things. When it boils down to it all, I believe we are the closest kin to one other and the funny thing is mosts foreigners can't even distinguish b/w the two. Why all the hate? I only wish the two countries can learn to get along better in the future, and I have great hopes for a change in Japans political climate now that Naoto Kan is prime minister. Would love to hear what you think, and please feel free to correct me if I've got my facts wrong. Just my two cents.

This post has been edited by han2: Jan 5 2011, 05:35 PM

[Shenzhou]

Each successive dynasty of China in the past 1000 years has fought at least one war with Japan.

The People's Republic of China is the only exception.

A smart person would prepare for a guaranteed military conflict with Japan in the future.

I'm pretty sure Japan is going to lose this war, because China is a motherfu-king big @$$ nation with a vengeance against her former vassal state.

Most likely, China will ally with a United Korea in a joint-invasion of the Japanese archaeological.

Korea alone can take on Japan, but with Chinese support, such an invasion would be overkill, Japan would kow-tow in an instant.

This post has been edited by Shenzhou: Jan 3 2011, 02:30 PM

[esk02]

Each successive dynasty of China in the past 1000 years has fought at least one war with Japan.

The People's Republic of China is the only exception.

A smart person would prepare for a guaranteed military conflict with Japan in the future.

I'm pretty sure Japan is going to lose this war, because China is a motherfu-king big @$$ nation with a vengeance against her former vassal state.

Most likely, China will ally with a United Korea in a joint-invasion of the Japanese archaeological.

Korea alone can take on Japan, but with Chinese support, such an invasion would be overkill, Japan would kow-tow in an instant.

Shenzhou, I admire your pride for China; you have every reason to feel proud of your motherland's culture and history. But I am in no way endorsing more hate by vengeance, for if what you say really happens then how are we in any way different from the Japanese imperialist scum of the past century? I feel like regarding this particular issue, peaceful reconcilliation will be much more beneficial to all of East Asia, though I understand that anti-Japanese sentiment is usually much much stronger in China than it is in Korea which is now more of a rivalry. I'd also like to state that a smart person would NOT prepare for this type of war, and so in that sense you are very very wrong. Furthermore your use of words like "former vassal state" does nothing but reaffirm your very own arrogant bigotry. Remember buddy, there is a very fine line b/w being proud and being a nationalist pig which your choice of words are suggesting. We are in the 21st century; S. Korea, Japan, and China are so politically and economically intertwined and dependent on each other that a war would be absolutely devastating not only to every party regardless of the outcome, but certainly to the entire world as well. Assuming that you are from China, what do you think, as a Chinese, the Japanese government and/or other countries need to do to in order to stop the hate?

Proper history education for Japanese children? Equal rights to zainichi residents?
Food for thought.

This post has been edited by esk02: Jan 3 2011, 06:39 PM

[Shenzhou]

I think what Chinese and Koreans (and even ambivalent onlookers) think matter less. Although we all have our flaws, the flaws you have pointed out are a far lesser evil than the real systematic root cause of people's hatred.

Maybe you should criticize the lack of Japanese forthcoming to settle this issue honestly, openly, and wholeheartedly. That would be a much nobler effort. You are wasting your time with this AF thread.

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The threat of Japanese Imperial Army militarization for the past 500 years has always disrupted trade, commerce, peace, and prosperity between our great nations.

The Japanese Imperial Army murdered, raped, and tested biology on millions of innocent Chinese and Korean men, women, and children.

The Japanese Imperial Army should have never preyed on her weaker neighbors, because Chinese Imperial Army, and Korean Imperial Army will exact revenge in the future.

This post has been edited by Shenzhou: Jan 3 2011, 06:47 PM

[samnang]

the children of today shouldn't have to suffer for the dumb $hit their grandparents did. let the past go already.

This post has been edited by samnang: Jan 3 2011, 07:41 PM

[esk02]

I think what Chinese and Koreans (and even ambivalent onlookers) think matter less. Although we all have our flaws, the flaws you have pointed out are a far lesser evil than the real systematic root cause of people's hatred.

Maybe you should criticize the lack of Japanese forthcoming to settle this issue honestly, openly, and wholeheartedly. That would be a much nobler effort. You are wasting your time with this AF thread.

-----------

The threat of Japanese Imperial Army militarization for the past 500 years has always disrupted trade, commerce, peace, and prosperity between our great nations.

The Japanese Imperial Army murdered, raped, and tested biology on millions of innocent Chinese and Korean men, women, and children.

The Japanese Imperial Army should have never preyed on her weaker neighbors, because Chinese Imperial Army, and Korean Imperial Army will exact revenge in the future.

But you seem to have missed the point I was trying to make, because that is exactly what I am suggesting in my initial post: the Japanese government's failure to openly settle these issues. That is precisely what I am criticizing am I not? Then again, I am also criticizing your previous post because despite what you list as historical atrocities are all plain fact, you then somehow conclude that the solution is retribution and you express this in a very particular tone that sounded rash rather than thought-out. While a part of me may be inevitably tempted to be in agreement with you I find the eye for an eye attitude altogether disturbing nevertheless. What I wanted to get out of this thread which you dismiss to be a waste of time, is what the gerneral opinion of Japanese (and other) people on this forum are regarding this matter and incite discussion. Maybe you're right and this is a waste of time, after all I've only recently joined and I don't know how these threads turn out. At any rate, I'm still throwing it out there to see what people have to say.

[manko]

Proper history education for Japanese children? Equal rights to zainichi residents?
Food for thought.

Japanese education is hardly anti-anything. They do not teach hate in schools unlike Korea or China.

Do you know what Zainichi means? Foreigner residing in Japan. Why would a foreigner have equal rights in a country they are not citizens of. lmao.

Proper history education for Japanese children? Equal rights to zainichi residents?
Food for thought.

Japanese education is hardly anti-anything. They do not teach hate in schools unlike Korea or China.

Do you know what Zainichi means? Foreigner residing in Japan. Why would a foreigner have equal rights in a country they are not citizens of. lmao.

[esk02]

the children of today shouldn't have to suffer for the dumb $hit their grandparents did. let the past go already.

True, but what exactly do children of Japan suffer when their government is forthright about history? Their sense of national pride? A sense of shock in realization that what they've read in textbooks were all lies? Tough for them, because in fact its quite the contrary; the young Japanese people have the RIGHT to learn what is the truth. Suffering is when they are deprived of the truth, much like how people in North Korea are suffering today. Or, when a national figure who needs to be an example to his citizens pays tribute to war criminals once a year, what do you think the Japanese children of today will grow up to beieve in? You dismiss that its the past, but the artifacts of the past pass on to become very present issues. Indifferene and ignorance is convenient, but in the end it only does more harm than good. So instead of being so evasive, try posting a real argument.

[esk02]

Japanese education is hardly anti-anything. They do not teach hate in schools unlike Korea or China.

Do you know what Zainichi means? Foreigner residing in Japan. Why would a foreigner have equal rights in a country they are not citizens of. lmao.



Japanese education is hardly anti-anything. They do not teach hate in schools unlike Korea or China.

Do you know what Zainichi means? Foreigner residing in Japan. Why would a foreigner have equal rights in a country they are not citizens of. lmao.

Yes, but you fail to recognize that many zainichi residents were forcibly taken to Japan during the occupation for the war effort, and their families have stayed their until the present because they believe Japan is now their home. In that sense, yes they are very much entitled to equal rights. Do your research before posting "lmao"s and questioning my own knowledge. It's one thing for a country not to give equal rights to a foreigner who moves over by choice, but to deprive certain rights after transporting these people over by force is a different story.

Regarding textbooks, you make it sound like a non-issue, but it is. Try starting with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_hist...k_controversies
Liancourt Rocks anybody?

This post has been edited by esk02: Jan 3 2011, 09:20 PM

[foi2]

Maybe you should criticize the lack of Japanese forthcoming to settle this issue honestly, openly, and wholeheartedly. That would be a much nobler effort. You are wasting your time with this AF thread.

The threat of Japanese Imperial Army militarization for the past 500 years has always disrupted trade, commerce, peace, and prosperity between our great nations.

The Japanese Imperial Army murdered, raped, and tested biology on millions of innocent Chinese and Korean men, women, and children.

The Japanese Imperial Army should have never preyed on her weaker neighbors, because Chinese Imperial Army, and Korean Imperial Army will exact revenge in the future.

The Japanese Imperial Army is dead. The people responsible are dead. Japan has apologized many, many times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_a...issued_by_Japan

Clinging on to hate long past does no one any good. Japanese people today would not condone the same kind of behavior that signified Imperial Japan, nor do we ever plan on re-arming and invading the rest of Asia. Our population is decreasing. There's no need for more land.

[KraterosHellas]

The Japanese Imperial Army is dead. The people responsible are dead. Japan has apologized many, many times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_a...issued_by_Japan

Clinging on to hate long past does no one any good. Japanese people today would not condone the same kind of behavior that signified Imperial Japan, nor do we ever plan on re-arming and invading the rest of Asia. Our population is decreasing. There's no need for more land.

it's not "clining on to hate." it's merely putting wrong to right, about justice. and also...u know what they say: revenge is so sweet

[Suijen]

Don't forget that they're now competing culturally and economically, and that they both have rival claims to the Dokto islands.

[esk02]

it's not "clining on to hate." it's merely putting wrong to right, about justice. and also...u know what they say: revenge is so sweet

Exactly what I'm trying to say wrapped up in one sentence. Kudos to you, sir. It's not about a rashly emotional animosity toward the Japanese people, which only a small number of very twisted people harbor. In fact, its quite the contrary and I'm sure most young Koreans and Japanese people are in agreement. We now live in a time where we enjoy what we have to offer to each other. Be it culture, business, etc. There's been a lot of Japanese-Korean cooperation as well as tense rivalry of late, and its all great.

But once in a while I inevitably feel a sense of injustice on part of the Japanese government that to me is just... wrong. I'll give you an example. A couple weeks ago I saw this documentary of a 90 something year old Korean comfort woman who until this day is an activist in Japan fighting for financial and emotional compensation. For her, the compensation bit is just what lies on the surface; its a desire for justice, so that she may one day die in peace. She's been through numerous trial after trial with the Japanese government, but each and every single time the court rules in favor of the government, leaving her in absolute devastation. Not even a formal apology. It's a constant uphill battle for her, but her perserverance has actually garnered a group of Japanese supporters. Yes, these are 100% Japanese people who like any other people, feel the need for justice to be served. They consistently support her outside of the court, cheering her on in the streets as curious passerbys read what their pickets say. The old lady attests that her Japanese supporters (who she identifies as her family) are what keeps her going, and that she is eternally grateful for their support. It was a very touching story indeed, and I think it highlights the fact that it's not a conflict between peoples, but an issue existing on a much larger, impersonal and political scale. At the personal level, its very evident that we've already put all the hate behind us.

This post has been edited by esk02: Jan 3 2011, 10:51 PM

[Titanium]

You should research Korean history between 1910-1945 and you'll have your answer. If you want to get even more technical, research Korean history at the end of the 16th century.

In other words, Japan has been nothing but a pain in the @$$ for the people of the Korean peninsula for the past 400 years.

[Shenzhou]

Japan is probably going to fight China in a war in the future, and lose. lol That's all I am going to say.

This post has been edited by Shenzhou: Jan 3 2011, 11:54 PM

[chunkyperiod]

You should research Korean history between 1910-1945 and you'll have your answer. If you want to get even more technical, research Korean history at the end of the 16th century.

In other words, Japan has been nothing but a pain in the @$$ for the people of the Korean peninsula for the past 400 years.

your a south chinese chimp who knows nothing. b!tchlol
what happened to your frank sinatra quotations?

[Titanium]

your a south chinese chimp who knows nothing. b!tchlol
what happened to your frank sinatra quotations?

I take it ESL has done wonders for your education.

[chunkyperiod]

bahaha hello frank sinatra quotations!
m i really that important that you have to play HIDE & SEEK with your FRANK SINATRA QUOTES whenever i'm here and not???

[esk02]

bahaha hello frank sinatra quotations!
m i really that important that you have to play HIDE & SEEK with your FRANK SINATRA QUOTES whenever i'm here and not???

Lol! coming from a guy whose name is "chunkyperiod". Yuck. Oh and by the way, please don't derail this post with your random comments. Thanks have a nice day

[chunkyperiod]

Lol! coming from a guy whose name is "chunkyperiod". Yuck. Oh and by the way, please don't derail this post with your random comments. Thanks have a nice day

Yuck yourself, you retarded sicko
as a matter of fact my name doesnt meant "chunky vaginal secretion"
it means im chunky. period
My comments are only as random as your stupid @$$ 3rd grade questions