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Srivijaya Empire, People, places, politics etc.
IndianGuy
post Apr 29 2008, 01:04 PM
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Is there still Indian influence on the present day Indonesian life?

Srivijaya and Majapahit are both Sanskrit words you know
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Bhaskara
post Apr 29 2008, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE(IndianGuy @ Apr 30 2008, 01:04 AM) [snapback]3669054[/snapback]
Is there still Indian influence on the present day Indonesian life?

Srivijaya and Majapahit are both Sanskrit words you know

Of course there are, we have a rich culture of Hinduism and Buddhism, so it's a given. For example, we still use a lot of Sanskrit and Pali words. But I have to make a correction, "Srivijaya" came from Sanskrit words, but "Majapahit" is an indigenous name icon_wink.gif
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JoeRagan
post Apr 29 2008, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE(Majapahitans @ Apr 28 2008, 06:14 AM) [snapback]3666219[/snapback]
.....And using animal name as person name is common in Java during ancient time: Kebo (Kerbau/cow) Anabrang, Kebo Ijo, Mahisa Wongateleng, Mahisa (means Bull) Cempaka, Mundingwangi ("Munding" also means bull) di Kusumah, Panji Kuda Wenangpati, and ofcourse Gajah Mada.
............

Yo those are pimpin names! I wonder if the native/indigenous american indian warriors/chiefs also got the idea from us?
you know they have cool names too like Chief Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Black Elk/Hawk, Red Cloud, Red Jacket etc biggthumpup.gif
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PerisaiLangkasuk...
post Apr 29 2008, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE(kelapa @ Apr 29 2008, 08:52 AM) [snapback]3668637[/snapback]
Malayu was a name of a river near Batang Hari in nowadays Jambi, with a port of the same name. During Srivijaya's golden era, it's just a vazal. However, its importance got bigger once the central power in Palembang (Siguntang) weakened, and the 11th-13th Srivijaya must pay tribute to Malayu (during this time the kingdom called Dharmasraya or Melayu Jambi by historians; Dharmasraya is a name written in a stone near Sitiung, West Sumatra). This is not proven well but likely so. Other theory says that Malayu was called Srivijaya during the era. Reports from China and Java however always mentioned name similar to Melayu (e.g. Mo-lo-yeu).

What we need now actually to study more on chinese and arabs reports during the era (they are not studied deeply!) and the temples and ruins around Muarojambi. Why the Srivijayan left us no written information was quite disappointing to me, regarding its greatness. Or may be it is not united, just a loose federation, because the Minangkabau before Pagarruyung Kingdom applied already a form of confederation, so the concept was not strange anyway ?


Could it be that Dharmasraya was the personal name of a Malayu king who founded a new dynasty in Malayu/Jambi, n then his name was used as the name of the dynastic line of rulers after him, who were his descendants? Just like what occurred with the Sanjaya dynasty/kingdom. icon_neutral.gif
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kelapa
post Apr 30 2008, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE(PerisaiLangkasuka @ Apr 30 2008, 04:42 AM) [snapback]3669988[/snapback]
Could it be that Dharmasraya was the personal name of a Malayu king who founded a new dynasty in Malayu/Jambi, n then his name was used as the name of the dynastic line of rulers after him, who were his descendants? Just like what occurred with the Sanjaya dynasty/kingdom. icon_neutral.gif


Not much known about this kingdom although it left us with some buddhist ruins and inscriptions on stones. you can read about it in this page
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kelapa
post Apr 30 2008, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE(Majapahitans @ Apr 28 2008, 12:14 PM) [snapback]3666219[/snapback]
Your thesys that "Gajah" is Malay word is weak; Sundanese, Javanese, even Balinese called elephant "Gajah". And using animal name as person name is common in Java during ancient time: Kebo (Kerbau/cow) Anabrang, Kebo Ijo, Mahisa Wongateleng, Mahisa (means Bull) Cempaka, Mundingwangi ("Munding" also means bull) di Kusumah, Panji Kuda Wenangpati, and ofcourse Gajah Mada.

Correction: Kebo=munding=water buffalo; Maesa/Mahesa/Mahisa=Gajah=elephant.
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applepannic
post Apr 30 2008, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE(Majapahitans @ Apr 18 2008, 07:47 AM) [snapback]3646047[/snapback]
Intermarried of royal family within the region was common at that time. icon_neutral.gif

I've read the book "Indochine, Carrefour des Arts" by Bernard Phillippe Groslier.
There was section dedicated to Srivijaya and Sailendra and their relations to Khmer Empire of Angkor.
FUNAN and CHENLA
In this book he mentioned that there was two kingdom in Indochina (modern Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand), A coastal kingdom of Funan (Phnom) means mountains on southern part of Cambodia and Vietnam, and Chenla (upper mountainous valley in Laos and northern Cambodia).

Funan rely on rice farming and trade near the estuary of Mekong delta, while Chenla was an agrarian state inland at northside of Funan.

Fall of FUNAN and the rise of SAILENDRA
Funan being attacked by Chenla and Funan royal family was fleeing elsewhere.
Then in central Java the new dynasty arose. The French scholar George Coedès once proposed that the Sailendras may have been related to the rulers of the ancient Cambodian kingdom of Funan, because the title "Lord of Mountain" used by the Sailendras may have resembled titles used by the Funanese rulers. In support of his hypothesis, Coedès pointed out that the name "Funan" as used by the Chinese is related to the Cambodian term "phnom" which means "mountain."Other specialists on Cambodian history have discounted Coedès' hypothesis. They argue that that no historical evidence exists to show that the Funanese ever ascribed the title "mountain king" to their rulers.

TARUMANAGARA
On other part of archipelago, kingdoms arose. In West Java, Salakanagara (partly legendary kingdom) arose in 200 AD, succeded by Tarumanagara (recorded in stone inscription).

SRIVIJAYA
On Musi river valley the new kingdom arose, Srivijaya. According to the Kedukan Bukit Inscription, the empire of Srivijaya was founded by Dapunta Hyang Çri Yacanaca (Dapunta Hyang Sri Jayanasa). He led 20,000 troops (mainly land troopers and a few hundred ships) from Minanga Tamwan (sugested to be either Minangkabau highland or Jambi mountainous region) to Palembang, Jambi, and Bengkulu. Remember, early stage of Srivijaya royal family was they have no connection to Sailendras.

SUNDA and GALUH
Tarumanagara being invaded by Srivijaya and weakening Tarumanagara, internal power struggle caused Sunda, the remnant of Tarumanagara to split into Sunda kingdom and Galuh kingdom.
SANJAYA
The Canggal inscription tells that Yawadwipa was reigned by king Sanna, which his long period of reign was marked with wisdom and virtue. After king Sanna died the kingdom fell into disunity. Confused because lost of ruler and patron, Sanjaya ascend to throne, he was the son of Sannaha (sister of Sanna). He was king that mastered holy scriptures, martial art, and also military prowess. He conquered neighboring area around his kingdom, his wise reign blessed his land with peace and prosperity for all his subjects.

King Sanna and Sanjaya also known in Carita Parahyangan, a book from later period which mainly tell the history of Pasundan (Sunda Kingdom). This book mentioned that Sanna was defeated by Purbasora, king of Galuh, then he retreated to mount Merapi. Later Sanna's successor Sanjaya reclaim Sanna's kingdom and ruled West Java, East Java, and Bali. He also involved in battle with Malayu and Keling (against their king Sang Srivijaya). In main theme of Carita Parahyangan is corresponds to Canggal inscription.
Sanjaya later started the Sanjaya Dynasty and established Mataram kingdom.

Decline of SAILENDRA
Sailendra of Java maintain a close relationship with Srivijayan of Sumatra through royal marriage.
According to the traditional account, the Sailendra kingdom came to an abrupt end when a prince from the rival Hindu Sanjaya Dynasty, Rakai Pikatan, displaced them in 832. Rakai Pikatan, who was the crown prince of the Sanjaya Dynasty, married Pramodhawardhani, a daughter of Samaratunga, king of Sailendra.

Some historians describe the Sailendra collapse as a retreat to Sumatra, implying that the dynasty also ruled Srivijaya. It is possible that Balaputra was a Srivijayan prince with a maternal link to the Sailendra and that his attack on Java was a Srivijayan attempt to annex the former Sailendra domain in Java. The hostile relations between Srivijaya and Mataram tend to confirm the thesis.

MATARAM, KEDIRI, SINGHASARI, MAJAPAHIT
At certain point of the time, the centre of Mataram kingdom was shifted from Central Java to East Java by Mpu Sindok, who established the new Isyana Dynasty. The exact cause of move of location still uncertain. However probably have been caused by an eruption of the volcano Gunung Merapi or a power struggle.

Later the series of succession of the kingdom in central and east Java, we witness the rise and fall of Mataram, Kediri, Singhasari, and later Majapahit.


You know what I find weird and interesting, Chenla was a vassal of Funan and it was to the northeast. I don't know where the name Chenla came from (its used by the Chinese, all Khmer records recorded called the entire land of Funan and Chenla as Kambuja), but it seem similar to Khmer Kang-ler (northern part) and cherng ler (northern leg).
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dreamhunter
post May 1 2008, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE(kelapa @ Apr 30 2008, 10:43 AM) [snapback]3670796[/snapback]
Correction: Kebo=munding=water buffalo; Maesa/Mahesa/Mahisa=Gajah=elephant.


Good Lord! icon_neutral.gif

I did suspect something amiss.

There goes your cred now, Maja. beerchug.gif


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Bhaskara
post May 2 2008, 03:59 AM
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But I do believe that Mahish means buffalo icon_neutral.gif

This post has been edited by Bhaskara: May 2 2008, 04:06 AM
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kelapa
post May 2 2008, 04:25 AM
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QUOTE(Bhaskara @ May 2 2008, 10:59 AM) [snapback]3674660[/snapback]
But I do believe that Mahish means buffalo icon_neutral.gif


Yup, youre right! I checked it again. sure.gif sure.gif
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dreamhunter
post May 2 2008, 07:47 AM
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Heh, had him worried then didn't ya, Kelapa?

Wellll, I knew already that the Sanskrit term for elephant is Guja, from which we have Gajah in Malay, Javanese n Sundanese.

I's just testing them then.

So, Mahish = Mahesh, as in Maheshwaran, right? A favourite name among many Indian guys.

I'll just make sure that none of my daughers or nieces r named Mahisa then. It's quite a female sounding name, if ya dont know its actual meaning actually. biggthumpup.gif
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Majapahitans
post May 5 2008, 04:14 AM
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QUOTE(kelapa @ Apr 30 2008, 10:43 AM) [snapback]3670796[/snapback]
Correction: Kebo=munding=water buffalo; Maesa/Mahesa/Mahisa=Gajah=elephant.


You right about this thing...
Kebo=Munding=Kerbau=water buffalo
But sometimes people did mistaken Kebo and Munding with wild Javan bull (banteng)...

But last time I check
Mahesa/Mahisa still means Bull



The statue of Durga Mahisasuramardini (Durga the slayer of Bull Demon) from Prambanan temple.
Durga=consort/shakti of Shiva
Mahisa=Bull
Ashura=demon
Mardini=slayer

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: May 5 2008, 04:15 AM
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AwangPembela
post May 5 2008, 07:31 AM
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So Mardini means slayer. Now wonder why Paolo Mardini is such a killer on the footbal field. beerchug.gif

Did the word Ashura become the Sanskrit word for demon cos the Ashurians (Assyrians), called Asura in the Hind, once invaded the Hind in ancient, v ancient times? Like, what, 2500 BC or that sort of time. Just a wild thought.

Is the expression Dirgahayu/Dergahayu in any way related to goddess Dirga/Derga/Durga? Just wondering.

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Bhaskara
post May 5 2008, 09:31 PM
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Mardini embarassedlaugh.gif
Are you a Japanese or something?
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AwangPembela
post May 5 2008, 11:17 PM
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Must be that intensive Nihongo class I went through 10 years ago. icon_neutral.gif

Yep, those Nippon jin do have that endearing way of saying their r/l as neither r nor l, but like something half-way in between.

Like when they say Mr. Ree/Lee, samurai/samulai, sakura/sakula, tempura/tempula, arigato/aligato etc.

It can be a bit difficult for them when they go to watch a Dracula movie, cos they can't say his name properly without getting their tongue into a twist. laugh.gif
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Bhaskara
post May 6 2008, 01:44 AM
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I believe you don't have the privilege of saying the word Nippon biggrin.gif
Dracula? Sure they can! Dorakyura!
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HangPC2
post May 14 2008, 10:17 PM
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Kendi lama singkap asal usul Melayu




Oleh Hussain Said








SEREMBAN: Penemuan kendi yang dipercayai berusia ribuan tahun di Mentakab, Pahang, kira-kira dua minggu lalu, menguatkan teori mengenai asal usul orang Melayu yang dikatakan berasal dari Vietnam Utara dan Champa.

Artifak itu yang dikatakan ditemui tertanam di sebuah kawasan bukit dan masih dalam keadaan sempurna, dipercayai peninggalan zaman logam sekitar 2,000 tahun lalu.

Pengkaji sejarah tamadun alam Melayu, Wan Ahmad Arshad, berkata Zaman Logam mula berpengaruh di Nusantara Melayu berdasarkan teori penghijrahan dari Vietnam Utara dan Champa.

"Penemuan artifak ini juga menjadi bukti bahawa Pahang pada suatu masa dulu menjadi pusat ketamadunan yang hebat," katanya.

Beliau yang memiliki Galeri Pusaka Moyang (GPM) di Senawang dekat sini, tidak menolak kemungkinan artifak itu mempunyai kaitan dengan dakwaan penemuan kota purba � Kota Gelanggi, di Johor pada 2003.

"Pahang juga mempunyai tempat dikenali sebagai Kota Gelanggi. Jadi, ada kemungkinan kedua-duanya mempunyai kaitan," katanya ketika ditemui di galeri itu, semalam.


Wan Ahmad mendakwa kendi itu ditemui seseorang dan menjual kepadanya, tetapi tidak memberitahu siapa yang menemuinya dan berapa harganya.

Beliau berkata, kendi berbentuk burung mahawangsa berkaki empat itu diperbuat daripada gangsa dan dipercayai digunakan dalam upacara keagamaan oleh kerabat diraja dan bangsawan.

"Reka bentuk kendi itu amat unik, seperti seekor burung mahawangsa bersayap, berparuh dan berkaki empat, bahagian pemegangnya mempunyai imej haiwan mengkarung," katanya.

Sehubungan itu, Wan Ahmad mempelawa kurator, ahli arkeologi serta ahli antropologi dari dalam dan luar negara untuk membuat penyelidikan lanjut mengenai penemuan kendi berkenaan.

Beliau juga menyarankan Jabatan Muzium dan Antikuiti Negara serta Jabatan Warisan Negara menjalankan penyelidikan di tapak penemuan kendi itu.


- Berita Harian -



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HangPC2
post May 14 2008, 10:18 PM
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Dakwa miliki kendi prasejarah Melayu




Oleh RAIS YEOP JOHARI
berita@kosmo.com.my






WAN AHMAD meneliti kendi prasejarah yang dimilikinya di galerinya di Seremban.



SEREMBAN - Seorang pemilik galeri barangan purba mendakwa memiliki artifak berupa kendi dipercayai tinggalan tamadun dunia prasejarah Melayu selepas menjumpainya tertanam di kawasan hutan balak di daerah Mentakab, Pahang, baru-baru ini.

Pemilik Galeri Pusaka Moyang, Wan Ahmad Arshad memberitahu artifak kendi yang menyerupai seekor burung mahawangsa, bersayap, berparuh serta bahagian pemegangnya memperlihatkan imej mengkarung itu ditemui dalam kawasan berbukit di hutan tersebut.

"Semasa ditemui keadaannya masih lagi baik, walaupun tertanam sejak bertahun lamanya. Ia diperbuat daripada gangsa dan masih dalam keadaan sempurna ketika ditemui," katanya di sini semalam

Kata pemilik itu, berdasarkan pengamatannya, kendi yang mempunyai empat kaki itu tidak melambangkan reka bentuk lazim artifak zaman Kesultanan Melayu Melaka sebaliknya banyak dipengaruhi oleh reka bentuk Arab, India, China, Indo-China dan Eropah

"Penemuan kendi ini dapat membuktikan satu lagi andaian bahawa ia berasal dari Zaman Logam sekitar abad pertama sebelum Masihi.

"Zaman Logam mula berpengaruh di Nusantara Melayu berdasarkan teori penghijrahan dari Vietnam Utara dan Champa, di mana lokasi asal artifak Zaman Logam ini banyak ditemui," ujarnya



- Kosmo -



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kelapa
post May 15 2008, 03:56 AM
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@Hang: thank you. In our area, Megalithic, Neolithic, Iron, and Bronze Ages developed simultaneously side by side.

However, I dont understand what "Nusantara Melayu" is. This is not a mainstream term, is it? It is believed that there were movement of people to south from southern china to occupy Indochina until the archipelago. but certainly they weren't the Malay (Melayu) people.
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Bhaskara
post May 15 2008, 04:07 AM
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QUOTE(kelapa @ May 15 2008, 03:56 PM) [snapback]3697914[/snapback]
@Hang: thank you. In our area, Megalithic, Neolithic, Iron, and Bronze Ages developed simultaneously side by side.

However, I dont understand what "Nusantara Melayu" is. This is not a mainstream term, is it? It is believed that there were movement of people to south from southern china to occupy Indochina until the archipelago. but certainly they weren't the Malay (Melayu) people.

My dear kelapa, you didn't know? Malaysian Malays use the term "Nusantara" for their own theory of "Malay World", which encompasses Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Singapore, the Philippines, Southern Thailand, etc etc

Cape deh icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Bhaskara: May 15 2008, 04:08 AM
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