Gold of Ancestors and our Hindu past Options

[trismegistos]

In 1981, Berto Morales, a farmer employed as a bulldozer operator in an irrigation project in Surigao struck gold. He discovered a treasure trove of gold ornaments while bringing down a hill to collect filling materials.

The discovery, hitherto unknown to the public, is among the largest collection of Philippine archaeological gold in the country as well as in the rest of the world.

Recovered in association with 10th to 13th century Chinese ceramics, the gold ornaments show similarities in form and iconography with artifacts of other cultures in the region. Experts believe the discovery will rewrite history.

“Nothing of this scale and magnitude and magnificence has ever been seen before,” says Dr. Florina Capistrano-Baker, former curator of the Ayala Museum, of the gold find.

Gold specialist Dr. John Miksic of the National University of Singapore describes the “Surigao treasure” as “the single most important tangible heritage of the country.”

Experts say jewelers today cannot imitate or even come close to the quality of the workmanship of the intricate designs of “our ancestors’ gold.”

Part of the Surigao treasure is the Sacred Thread, which is worn during ceremonies and weighs more than four kilos. Baker says the belt-like object is so heavy a mannequin broke because of its sheer weight.

PROBE reporter, Cheche Lazaro, searches for Berto Morales in Surigao. From then on, Lazaro uncovers that Berto’s gold discovery takes many twist and turns -- involving threats to his life and family.

With the help of historians and experts, Lazaro reveals an amazing story about Philippines’ forgotten civilization before the Spanish colonization of the archipelago in the 16th century and how the archaeological gold artifacts associated with the pre-colonization period point to a sophisticated civilization -- something that will give us a sense of identity and pride as a people.

Supported by historical accounts about pre-colonial Philippines, the Surigao gold collection show that we were important players in the region 1,000 years ago and that gold was an important link between our country and the rest of our neighbors.

YOUTUBE VIDEO LINKS FOR THE EDITED AND COMPLETE VERSIONS OF "GOLD OF ANCESTORS" OR "GINTONG PAMANA"



A) EDITED ABRIDGED VERSION: Forgotten Philippines: Gold Of Ancestors:

Forgotten Philippines: Gold Of Ancestors 1 Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIwuvg_VnU

Forgotten Philippines: Gold Of Ancestors 1 Part 2 : THE SACRED THREAD AND THE KINARI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYtBVHrCK5w

Forgotten Philippines: Gold Of Ancestors 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E38Uh_qwup4

Forgotten Philippines: Gold Of Ancestors 3 Final
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THuB_IHxIiA
------------------------------------------------------


B) COMPLETE UNEDITED VERSION: Gintong Pamana

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amFkFwsVIcs

part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DsHGJo8jeU...feature=related

part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx2uAPqa8TM...feature=related

part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yPkpRl5ruc...feature=related

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37D8bIzXLbs

part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8Q0PiTzS30

part 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFB-U7eHMKc

part 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYyt7maWe_I...ana+Part+8+Of+9

part 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0i9uv5C2kQ...ana+Part+9+Of+9

other links:
http://www.ayalamuseum.org/index.php?optio...tpage&id=14



http://www.marketmanila.com/archives/the-m...-gold-artifacts

“Good God Damn!” was the unabashed and spontaneous reaction of an American tourist clad in a stereotypical plaid shirt. He had just stepped up to a massive “halter,” the “star” of the utterly stunning collection of pre-colonial gold that has ever so quietly opened to the public at the Ayala Museum. I will explain why his comment was a good one, and not intended to be blasphemous at all…

I was privileged and extremely grateful to have been invited to, and given what was tantamount to the finest private tour of the new exhibit : “Gold of Ancestors,” Pre-colonial Treasures of the Philippines. But this wasn’t supposed to be any special treatment whatsoever; a casual text invitation, a holiday lunch with friends, no formality in dress, then we slipped anonymously into the exhibit that had officially opened to the public just hours before. There were just 3-4 other visitors in the gallery at that point. It just so happens that the friends who gave me the tour, are members of the family that collected the artifacts and who have now permanently placed the pieces in a museum, available for the public to view. And while we were there, I was introduced to the curator of the exhibit and one of the authors of an upcoming book on the collection. Let me tell you, I had goosebumps for an hour, maybe more. It is rare that I would feel so incredibly proud to be Filipino, to think that many of these pieces were crafted and had come from an area geographically so close to where my own ancestors called home, (who were probably drying fish on the shores of Bohol and Cebu) unaware of the wonderful pieces that were being crafted and worn in Northern Mindanao, out of a yellow metal that spewed out of mountainsides and were panned for in pristine rivers in and around Butuan and Surigao.

Start your visit with a very well done short film that sets the stage for viewing the collection. Then stroll to the right of the viewing area to take in as much of the incredible artisty, beauty, history, culture and wonder that should overwhelm you, as it overwhelmed me, when I realized the collection included some 1,059 individual pieces of gold, ranging from tiny bits collected in graves and other sites, to pieces that simply boggled the mind, all estimated to have been made from the 10-13th century. Many were pieces of ornamentation such as earrings, diadems, rings, bracelets, pectorals (round shield like things that presumably hung from the neck and covered ones pectorals). There were sashes or “belts” in gold, bowls, and my favorite doodad, a pair of gold tweezers that, I was told, actually worked on thinning one’s eyebrows! I secretly wanted to try it on a nose hair or two. There was also an incredible array of orifice ornaments or pieces of gold that covered the eyes, nose and mouth of the deceased when they were laid to rest. Gold chastity pieces, and several pieces whose purpose still needs to be studied and confirmed. And as I speed through the description of items, the final, piece de resistance, a stunning over the shoulder “halter” which was the object of the plaid-clad foreigner’s comment up top.



This piece can only be described as the single most amazing gold doodad I have ever seen. Ever. And yes, I have seen the Crown Jewels. And I am being irreverent calling it a doodad because I am too uncultured to even partially understand how important this piece is and the whole collection that surrounds it. An intricate yet utterly modern sensibility made up of gold “rope” and beads, it weighs a whopping 4 kilos or nearly 10 pounds of pure gold. It is after reading the weight and staring at the piece, that the guy in plaid said, quite appropriately, “Good God Damn!” For me, the ultimate numbers guy, what should have been stunning alone was the weight of some of these artifacts, a beautiful bowl at 600-700 grams, a necklace at say a kilo or so, earrings so huge that they could have adorned the massive ears of a cow, for all I know. But ultimately, the goose bump effect wasn’t the richness and volume of the precious material. It was the sudden realization that for once, someone had bothered and at great personal expense I am sure, to buy up all of these pieces and put together a fabulous collection, then when they felt the time was right, have selflessly placed it in a museum so that the public, the Filipino people and guests from all over the world, can enjoy it and begin to learn more and more about an incredible period in our history. The goosebumps were also caused by the realization that the folks who inhabited these islands nearly a millenium ago were already so advanced in their craftmanship which was also true at different points of our history in the beautiful textiles, baskets, embroideries, etc. Unfortunately this craftmanship is rapidly disappearing and so many of our children have no inkling about this incredible amount of history and culture…

I know, there are many folks out there who will think, but what about the poor, starving, underprivileged citizens who would so benefit if all of this gold were sold off and the proceeds used to help them instead. For once, I say, have you completely lost your minds? This isn’t about the collection being worth its weight in gold (trust me, I did some quick crass calculations). It isn’t even that it is financially worth some 20-30 times its weight in gold had it been placed on the block at Sotheby’s or Christie’s… for the Filipino people, this collection is simply PRICELESS. And what are the wishes of the family who so generously made this possible? That making the collection available to the whole world will encourage extensive scholarly study of that period in Philippine history. That we all feel an incredible sense of pride in our local capabilities and craftmanship. That we give renewed attention to culture and history and a sense of perspective to who we are in the context of a millenia rather than perhaps the somewhat forgettable political foibles and “history” of the past 50 years. I realize many guests to this exhibit may not take away as much from it as I have, given such a personal tour which made it all the more real for me, but nevertheless, GO SEE THIS EXHIBIT if it is the ONLY cultural thing you do this year.

And back to the guy in plaid. As if his earlier comment wasn’t enough, he looked at us and said something along the lines of “imagine, if only you owned just a bit of this stuff?” Yes indeed, if only one did. If ONLY HE KNEW that the folks he was bantering with actually did once own it, and have in essence, returned it to the Filipino nation. I was watching this light exchange with a smile on my face. We had a really good laugh about it afterwards. So before you all go thinking this is Marketman and friends doing the ultimate golden fish pan post, I can tell you that not all wealthy folks are evil… a few of them do deeds like this one and you instantly understand the power of money, and more importantly foresight and a sense of national patrimony. Money can, and has, actually been used to preserve a priceless part of our history and culture. And I say bravo to that.

And as for the Spaniards who arrived in the 1500’s, discovered the cache of gold in Mindanao and took lots of it with them to make doodads of their own in Mexico and Spain, and in the process probably destroyed our local craftsmanship forever, that is another story altogether. But isn’t it ironic that some of their descendants were the ones who funded the building of the museum that now houses this fantastic collection? So the Zobel family that has worked so closely with the donors to provide a spectacular setting for a spectacular collection also deserve our thanks. And while at the museum, swing by the newly donated Chinese and Southeast Asian Trade Ceramics collection of the Villanueva family and an exhibit of old Philippine embroideries which are on loan from the Leiden Museum.

Oh and one final note. If you are feeling like the music and set up are giving you deja vu’s about recent movies like “National Treasure,” this is the real magilla. A TRUE NATIONAL TREASURE.

Gold of Ancestors
Pre-colonial Treasures in the Philippines
The Ayala Museum
Makati Avenue, Makati

http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinio...530-139637/Gold

I remember history lessons in high school and even in college where we were taught that the Spaniards came to the Philippines mainly in search of spices to perk up and preserve their food—and souls to convert.

There was more to Spain’s colonizing than spices and souls. The Boxer Codex, written in the 16th century shortly after the Spaniards arrived in the Philippines and filled with descriptions of the inhabitants, includes 75 colored illustrations of the natives, many showing the “indio” [native] wearing gold ornaments, and I don’t just mean earrings and necklaces. The Codex shows the natives wearing gold literally from head to toe.

The document is so named because it was eventually acquired by an American, Charles Boxer, who in turn left it to the Lilly University, where it is today. I have only seen reproductions of the document but looking at the facsimiles, I can imagine how dazzled the Spaniards must have been when they first arrived in the Philippines, looking at the natives as primitives and yet seeing them wearing so much gold. Visions of more of this gold jewelry, and gold mines, probably spurred Spanish expansion through the islands more than the spices and souls.

Over the centuries, those gold treasures have surfaced, sometimes by accident as in construction sites, at other times through systematic archaeological excavations—some of them eventually ending up in private collections.

The central bank, Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas (BSP), has a museum with a good collection of this gold jewelry. But year after year, when I’d ask my new students at the University of the Philippines if they’d seen the exhibit, most would say they had not been to the museum. Some actually said they were not even aware that the BSP has a small museum, much less one of gold from our prehistoric past.

Now I’m going to have to push my students to go for another, even more impressive, exhibit of gold—this one at the Ayala Museum in Makati City. As I explained in last Wednesday’s column, the Ayala Museum has expanded its exhibits beyond the dioramas of Philippine history. I still recommend going through those dioramas for a general overview of our history, and then going to the fourth floor for a new section called “The Crossroads of Civilization,” which shows some 600 Chinese and southeast Asian ceramics, clothing from the 19th century, and gold artifacts.

“Gold of Ancestors” consists of more than a thousand gold objects. The Ayala Museum boasts it is “the exhibit you’ve waited a thousand years to see.” Well, almost a thousand. There are more than a thousand objects on display, dated back to between the 10th and 13th centuries and excavated from all throughout the Philippines.

The Ayala exhibit, curated by Dr. Florina Capistrano-Baker, is very different from the BSP collection. Ayala’s is more varied, with many more labels for the exhibits, as well as poster boards that give the historical context. There’s also a widescreen video documentary, shown on the hour. The exhibit is more solemn, darkened rooms with lights positioned strategically to highlight the jewelry.

One poster explains that gold was part of the indio elite’s life, literally from birth to death. Gold was included in a bag with the umbilical cord of a newborn child that would be buried in a safe place. And when someone died, they would be buried with gold objects, including gold masks.

Samples of the gold death masks are in the Ayala Museum, together with artifacts found from grave sites. Don’t miss some of the exhibits on the floor, designed to recreate what a grave site, filled with glittering gold, might have looked like.

Extravagance

The exhibit concentrates on gold used through life, and the use can only be described as “maluho,” or extravagant. Gold was there to adorn: rings, bracelets, ear ornaments (these are actually earrings but are so large that “ear ornament” is more accurate), necklaces, neck chains and ornaments (again, from the size, “chains” and “ornaments” are a more apt term), diadems, cuffs, wrist ornaments, pectorals (worn on the chest), waistbands, anklets, finials (to hold clothing together)—and “chastity covers.” (I believe this is an English term reflecting western norms.) Really now, does wearing gold there deflect or draw attention?

Our ancestors seemed to have something about ears, given the number of gold ear jewelry. Historical accounts tell us men had one or two holes for earrings, while women had three to four. The Ayala exhibit has samples of different types of earrings. The “panika” were the largest earrings, worn on the lowest hole, which also had a name, “panikaan.” Smaller earrings, with finer floral designs, were called “palbad,” “pomara,” or “dinalopang,” were used in upper holes. There was even something called the “sangi,” worn on only one ear.

I found many of the small objects more impressive than the large ones because they showed how fine the craftsmanship could be, with filigree for example, where gold wires are soldered and fashioned into particular designs, or “repousee,” in which the artisan worked on the reverse side of the jewelry to create a raised design on the front.

The larger objects impress mainly by their size. I found myself noting down the weight of each object, initially impressed with a 26-gram ring but the awe there giving way as other larger objects came to view: here, a neck ornament, consisting of 10-12 chains, weighing 439 grams; there, a 571-gram waistband. And then, there it was, the famous Gold Thread from Surigao. A poster explains the idea of an Upavita, a sacred thread, is from Hinduism, but “thread” is the understatement of the year. This is a halter, worn around the body, 150-centimeter long and weighing 3.8 kilos. That’s eight pounds of opulence.

Not only were the indios extravagant, they also were masters at conspicuous consumption. Gold cord weights, used on headdresses, had pellets inside that made sure you knew someone of status was coming your way.

I’ll leave it to you to discover the other objects. Besides body adornment, gold was used as well for bowls, cups, goblets. There are also figurines, including a Kinnari, half-bird, half-woman.

The exhibit tells us about how much we shared with our neighbors. For example, many ornaments have the Garuda theme, the mythological bird used by the Hindu god Vishnu. But many other designs are unique to the Philippines. Gold sashes, for example, have so far been found only in the Philippines. There’s material in the Ayala exhibit for anthropologists and historians to analyze in the years to come, telling us more about our ancestors’ lifeways and helping us understand ourselves, today.

This post has been edited by trismegistos: Nov 26 2009, 06:21 AM

[salamat]

Yup I saw this already....Butuuan in Surigao was a hindu influenced city

[filipinoy]

lolz im barely watching it, WTH all the baybayin scripts in the intro are written all so wrong! did they even check how to use it!?

looks interesting tho

[salamat]

its a very good video...its rich in information on Philippine ancient society and how we dressed and who we traded with...

[Majapahitans]

Fascinating findings....!


Surigao Kinnari

Really reminds me of the gold relics findings in Java, Indonesia.



This suggested that the history of Phillippines archipelago is more closely related to neighbouring, Indonesia, Cambodia, and Vietnam than we've expected before.
I hope there will be more findings of manuscript or inscription discovered there to uncover Phillippines pre-colonial history.

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Nov 12 2009, 09:56 AM

[azaz]

Trismegistos wants to say here that Philippines has been rich, not only in art or some religious influence, but really was very very rich in gold (and maybe still is). This is important in establishing the true source of what we know now as Santa Romana or Marcos wealth. And dispel the myth that Philippines was always poor which other people want the Filipino generations of today to believe... so that they can continue to keep the gold.

This post has been edited by azaz: Nov 12 2009, 08:31 PM

[Suzuka00]

Butuan is a visayan kingdom,Visayans had a closer connections to Sri-Vijaya and Majapahit compared to the other people in d' archipelago,Eastern Mindanao and Southern Mindoro was inhabited by Visayans even in the prehispanic period as well.

Luzon's true name is actually Gintu or Ginto....

This post has been edited by Suzuka00: Nov 12 2009, 09:41 PM

[matigasngulo]

careful, there's lot of fake gold floating around too

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1258049769.php

[trismegistos]

Butuan is a visayan kingdom,Visayans had a closer connections to Sri-Vijaya and Majapahit compared to the other people in d' archipelago,Eastern Mindanao and Southern Mindoro was inhabited by Visayans even in the prehispanic period as well.

Luzon's true name is actually Gintu or Ginto....

Where did you get your info about the actual name of Luzon as Ginto?
Seems like a filipinization of the Chryse Chersonessos, Land of Gold, Suvarnadvipa, etc.

The Laguna copperplate inscription is shedding some light that Tondo and neighboring areas were not isolated from the rest of Southeast Asia, at the least with Medang in Sumatra(or Java) with Diwata(in Mindanao). So might have closer connection to the SriVijaya and the Majapahit than what you think. Remember the will of Pansonum between the marriages of Dayang Sasaban of Sapa with the Majapahit sovereign(if the will is authentic). Some speculated also that the capital of Srivijaya or Sanfotsi or Zabag as located in Luzon.

This post has been edited by trismegistos: Nov 22 2009, 08:18 AM

[Suzuka00]

Where did you get your info about the actual name of Luzon as Ginto?
Seems like a filipinization of the Chreosonese, Land of Gold, Suvarnadvipa, etc.

The Laguna copperplate inscription is shedding some light that Tondo and neighboring areas were not isolated from the rest of Southeast Asia, at the least with Medang in Sumatra(or Java) with Diwata(in Mindanao). So might have closer connection to the SriVijaya and the Majapahit than what you think. Remember the will of Pansonum between the marriages of Dayang Sasaban of Sapa with the Majapahit sovereign(if the will is authentic). Some speculated also that the capital of Srivijaya or Sanfotsi or Zabag as located in Luzon.

http://parasapinga.multiply.com
According to the articles posted here the true name of "Luzon" is Ginto.


This post has been edited by Suzuka00: Nov 15 2009, 10:37 AM

[trismegistos]

http://parasapinga.multiply.com
According to the articles posted here the true name of "Luzon" is Ginto.

He didn't say Ginto, he meant to say, "Pulo ng Ginto" which is the Tagalog words for what the outsiders woould designate the fabled Islands of Gold, for e.g the Hindus in the Subcontinent would refer Southeast Asia as Suvarnadvipa, the Ancient Greeks would refer to the same area as Chreosonese which all means "Island of Gold". The inhabitants of the isles simply say they were Taga-Ilog, Taga-Sapa, Mga taga pampang, taga-Luok, taga Batan.
Only during the 14th or 15th century would the inhabitants say they were from Lusung.

While Mayi, is the Chinese word which would refer to their source of the bird's nest, which is Mindoro.

[Suzuka00]

He didn't say Ginto, he meant to say, "Pulo ng Ginto" which is the Tagalog words for what the outsiders woould designate the fabled Islands of Gold, for e.g the Hindus in the Subcontinent would refer Southeast Asia as Suvarnadvipa, the Ancient Greeks would refer to the same area as Chreosonese which all means "Island of Gold". The inhabitants of the isles simply say they were Taga-Ilog, Taga-Sapa, Mga taga pampang, taga-Luok, taga Batan.
Only during the 14th or 15th century would the inhabitants say they were from Lusung.

While Mayi, is the Chinese word which would refer to their source of the bird's nest, which is Mindoro.

Luzon was only the name of the island during spanish occupation before that Luzon was known as Ginto,While Ma-yi referred to Kumintang and Mindoro exclusively.

[trismegistos]

Luzon was only the name of the island during spanish occupation before that Luzon was known as Ginto,While Ma-yi referred to Kumintang and Mindoro exclusively.

The people of Brunei back then under the reign of Bolkiah who was known in Sulu as Raja Baguinda would call Luzon as Selurung which accdg to them the people of Luzon would call their island as Lusung accdg to the Nakoda Ragam document.
Accdg to the Parasapinga guy, the one you sourced as the one who called Luzon as Ginto could have sourced his ideas on the various history books like the one authored by Sonia Zaide, which accdg to the latter, the Philippines(not just Luzon) was known even during the time of Plato as Maniolas or as the Islands of Gold or Chreosonese or Suvarnadvipa(Hindu words meaning Island of Gold). And the Parasapinga guy didn't call it Ginto either he called Luzon as "Pulo ng Ginto". It is probably crazy for a people to call their island simply as Gold itself but it is more grammatically correct to say they live in the "island of gold."

The epithets: Islands of Gold or Suvarnadvipa or Chreosonese are all being contested by Indonesians, Malaysians and Filipinos while the Thailander claimed their country was known before as Suvarnadbhumi or Land of God.

But the Philippines has always been the no.1 producer of Gold in Asia since time immemorial. As most geologists say that Copper always comes with Gold and Mercury and Philippines is known to have the largest Copper deposits in the world, one can't go wrong if one will claim the Philippines has the largest deposits of gold in the world and not just no.3 or in the top ten as most Mining websites say.

This post has been edited by trismegistos: Nov 16 2009, 12:43 AM

[Suzuka00]

The people of Brunei back then under the reign of Bolkiah who was known in Sulu as Raja Baguinda would call Luzon as Selurung which accdg to them the people of Luzon would call their island as Lusung accdg to the Nakoda Ragam document.
Accdg to the Parasapinga guy, the one you sourced as the one who called Luzon as Ginto could have sourced his ideas on the various history books like the one authored by Sonia Zaide, which accdg to the latter, the Philippines(not just Luzon) was known even during the time of Plato as Maniolas or as the Islands of Gold or Chreosonese or Suvarnadvipa(Hindu words meaning Island of Gold). And the Parasapinga guy didn't call it Ginto either he called Luzon as "Pulo ng Ginto". It is probably crazy for a people to call their island simply as Gold itself but it is more grammatically correct to say they live in the "island of gold."

The epithets: Islands of Gold or Suvarnadvipa or Chreosonese are all being contested by Indonesians, Malaysians and Filipinos while the Thailander claimed their country was known before as Suvarnadbhumi or Land of God.

But the Philippines has always been the no.1 producer of Gold in Asia since time immemorial. As most geologists say that Copper always comes with Gold and Mercury and Philippines is known to have the largest Copper deposits in the world, one can't go wrong if one will claim the Philippines has the largest deposits of gold in the world and not just no.3 or in the top ten as most Mining websites say.

I think we should debate in the netbooks forums instead about this...


This post has been edited by Suzuka00: Nov 16 2009, 01:42 AM

[filipinoy]

yup, im pretty sure China knew about this gold resource since ancient times lol


China’s largest gold producer looks to invest $1 billion in Philippines
Source: Government of China

One of China’s largest gold producers has formally signified its interest to invest 1 billion U.S. dollars in gold and copper exploration in the Philippines over the next five years, Malacanang said.

http://thegovmonitor.com/world_news/asia/c...ines-10567.html

This post has been edited by filipinoy: Nov 16 2009, 02:14 AM

[salamat]

yup, im pretty sure China knew about this gold resource since ancient times lol


China’s largest gold producer looks to invest $1 billion in Philippines
Source: Government of China

One of China’s largest gold producers has formally signified its interest to invest 1 billion U.S. dollars in gold and copper exploration in the Philippines over the next five years, Malacanang said.

http://thegovmonitor.com/world_news/asia/c...ines-10567.html

Damn it Arroyo is selling out our country again to her chinese masters

This post has been edited by salamat: Nov 16 2009, 07:36 AM

[Majapahitans]

Where did you get your info about the actual name of Luzon as Ginto?
Seems like a filipinization of the Chreosonese, Land of Gold, Suvarnadvipa, etc.

The Laguna copperplate inscription is shedding some light that Tondo and neighboring areas were not isolated from the rest of Southeast Asia, at the least with Medang in Sumatra(or Java) with Diwata(in Mindanao). So might have closer connection to the SriVijaya and the Majapahit than what you think. Remember the will of Pansonum between the marriages of Dayang Sasaban of Sapa with the Majapahit sovereign(if the will is authentic). Some speculated also that the capital of Srivijaya or Sanfotsi or Zabag as located in Luzon.

Medang is in Java, the capital of 9th-10th century Hindu Mataram kingdom, Medang i bhumi Mataram.
And I think it is established among historians that Sanfotsi or Cheli-fo-che (Chinese name), Zabag (Arab name), Javaka and Java-dvipa (Indian name), Jabadiu (Greek name: from sanskirt Java-dvipa) is refer to same entity: Srivijaya.



Sanfotsi and Cheli-fo-che is clearly Chinese corrupted spelling from Srivijaya, while ancient Arab traders identify whole western Indonesian archipelago (Java, Sumatra, and Malay peninsula) as Java...
Probably Arabs reference to Java because during 8th to 9th century, the court of Srivijaya empire was located in central Java under Sailendra dynasty whom erected Borobudur buddhist monument. Sailendra was belongs to Srivijaya "confederation".
About 8th century Arabs muslim traders began to established their trade network span from Red Sea and East coast of Africa to China, about this time to they charted their maps and identify Southeast Asian archipelago simply as "Java".
Although later in circa 10th century Srivijaya lost its control on central Java to Sanjaya dynasty, the Arabs "error" on the identification of the whole region (and its people) remains the same "Java".
Even arab script that used to write Malay language is called "Jawi" script, Arabs identify whole Malay or Austronesian race as "Jawi" or "Jawa", up until now.
As stated by an Arabian merchant in Seng Market, Mecca, Saudi Arabia to an Indonesian hajj pilgrim: "Samathrah, Sholibis, Sundah, kulluh Jawi" (Sumatra, Sulawesi, Sunda, all are Java).



Btw, in Nagarakretagama, Majapahit ancient manuscript, identify Solot (Sulu) as part of this maritime empire trade network.

I hope more of the ancient inscriptions from Phillippines' pre-colonial era will be discovered, so Phillippines ancient history could be clearer and incorporated into whole ancient Southeast Asia's timeline and theater of history.

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Nov 16 2009, 09:02 AM

[Suzuka00]

Medang is in Java, the capital of 9th-10th century Hindu Mataram kingdom, Medang i bhumi Mataram.
And I think it is established among historians that Sanfotsi or Cheli-fo-che (Chinese name), Zabag (Arab name), Javaka and Java-dvipa (Indian name), Jabadiu (Greek name: from sanskirt Java-dvipa) is refer to same entity: Srivijaya.



Sanfotsi and Cheli-fo-che is clearly Chinese corrupted spelling from Srivijaya, while ancient Arab traders identify whole western Indonesian archipelago (Java, Sumatra, and Malay peninsula) as Java...
Probably Arabs reference to Java because during 8th to 9th century, the court of Srivijaya empire was located in central Java under Sailendra dynasty whom erected Borobudur buddhist monument. Sailendra was belongs to Srivijaya "confederation".
About 8th century Arabs muslim traders began to established their trade network span from Red Sea and East coast of Africa to China, about this time to they charted their maps and identify Southeast Asian archipelago simply as "Java".
Although later in circa 10th century Srivijaya lost its control on central Java to Sanjaya dynasty, the Arabs "error" on the identification of the whole region (and its people) remains the same "Java".
Even arab script that used to write Malay language is called "Jawi" script, Arabs identify whole Malay or Austronesian race as "Jawi" or "Jawa", up until now.
As stated by an Arabian merchant in Seng Market, Mecca, Saudi Arabia to an Indonesian hajj pilgrim: "Samathrah, Sholibis, Sundah, kulluh Jawi" (Sumatra, Sulawesi, Sunda, all are Java).



Btw, in Nagarakretagama, Majapahit ancient manuscript, identify Solot (Sulu) as part of this maritime empire trade network.

I hope more of the ancient inscriptions from Phillippines' pre-colonial era will be discovered, so Phillippines ancient history could be clearer and incorporated into whole ancient Southeast Asia's timeline and theater of history.

The Pacific Islanders were not grouped with the "Malay World" before the europeans discovered the connection between the two.

[trismegistos]

I think we should debate in the netbooks forums instead about this...

Might as well create a thread over here http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/forumd...y.php?&f=21 or continue with our discussions or exchanges of ideas in the ff threads:
http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413753
http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412057
http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415024

Mas maraming utak talangka duon.
Feel at home tayo duon.

[matigasngulo]

for our indonesian friends Surigao is outside of the current known Majapahit sphere:

http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=en&clien...ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

This post has been edited by matigasngulo: Nov 21 2009, 07:03 AM