The Importance of Freedom of Speech Options

[gambit]

I'm sorry that you wish to nit pic.

If the subject involve religions and their influences on humankind, it pays to be precise and accurate.

But, any alien coming to earth and reading the Bible can get the absolutely wrong idea about religion

Why would anyone assume that aliens themselves would be atheists? What if they come to Earth with the intention to conquer and colonize in the name of their religion? Too much Hollywood for you?

The Bible being the most mis-used and mis-interpreted book was used as an example

If the Bible is the most incorrectly interpreted in the history of atrocities can we ask which religious book is the least incorrectly interpreted in the same history of atrocities? I would think that the least incorrectly interpreted would be the most troublesome since it offer the believers the path of least intellectual resistance and mental gymnastics required for them to do the things that while considered 'atrocious' would be religiously sanctioned.

Science is an excellent example. When enter the realm of quantum physics where we are largely ignorant about the foundation of physical or even metaphysical existence we see disagreements and even hostility among scientists regarding how to interpret the discovered data about that foundation. But outside of that we do no argue on how to arrive at so-and-such conclusions to build a building or a bicycle. The mathematics and the physics are indisputable. We kill each other figuratively in the market, not literally in any wars.

How about instead of atrocities we take up charities? So then is the Bible the most incorrectly interpreted with regards to charities?

[elleX0]

If the subject involve religions and their influences on humankind, it pays to be precise and accurate.

Why would anyone assume that aliens themselves would be atheists? What if they come to Earth with the intention to conquer and colonize in the name of their religion? Too much Hollywood for you?

If the Bible is the most incorrectly interpreted in the history of atrocities can we ask which religious book is the least incorrectly interpreted in the same history of atrocities? I would think that the least incorrectly interpreted would be the most troublesome since it offer the believers the path of least intellectual resistance and mental gymnastics required for them to do the things that while considered 'atrocious' would be religiously sanctioned.

Science is an excellent example. When enter the realm of quantum physics where we are largely ignorant about the foundation of physical or even metaphysical existence we see disagreements and even hostility among scientists regarding how to interpret the discovered data about that foundation. But outside of that we do no argue on how to arrive at so-and-such conclusions to build a building or a bicycle. The mathematics and the physics are indisputable. We kill each other figuratively in the market, not literally in any wars.

How about instead of atrocities we take up charities? So then is the Bible the most incorrectly interpreted with regards to charities?

And this leads us to the point when we ask ourselves whether we place our faith in Myths or in Cosmology because both cannot be right or occupy the same space.

[tangawizi]

If the subject involve religions and their influences on humankind, it pays to be precise and accurate.

How feasible or practical is that?

People mostly pick up enough religion to hate but not enough to love.

The best and the worst - that's what you get from religions.

[Jarhier]

Of course we all know that violent rampage which often results in death only happens in Afghanistan because of those extremists. Where as in countries such as Pakistan, part of Muslim majority in India, in Mid East or in other Islamic states, the demonstrations reported in the media at large are peaceful, no extremist there. It's incredible, but we take your word for it and we should practise selective amnesia just like you do, it's the way to go.

And yes, I also like your logic. T Jones IS guilty due to the action of those behave in a murderous way half a world away. There were in fact 24 deaths? Wow it is a small price to pay considering...

lol what selective amnesia? go ahead and list the countries that violently protested over terri jones' quran burning. according to the article you posted , only small group of mobs in afghanistan and pakistan acted out in violence. they already have anti US sentiment for US indiscrimiately bombing their villages for decades. knowing this and it would push them over the edge, US officials warned terri jones, who got media attention during 9/11 mosque building controversy, not to do it that it'll put US soldiers and other foreign workers in danger (they were right). conveniently he was promoting his new book at the time too.

and many yt users are burning quran and uploading it on yt. no deaths and violent protests over this. shocking isn't it? it only shows media has a control over sheeple like you to be scared all the time.

[avisitor]

If the subject involve religions and their influences on humankind, it pays to be precise and accurate.

it pays to be precise and accurate ... if you talk about money or body count or some such thing.
But about interpretation of books?? You nit pic again.

Why would anyone assume that aliens themselves would be atheists? What if they come to Earth with the intention to conquer and colonize in the name of their religion? Too much Hollywood for you?

We were talking about mis-interpretation. Why now divert attention and talk about aliens being atheists or
what not? Stay on task.

If the Bible is the most incorrectly interpreted in the history of atrocities can we ask which religious book is the least incorrectly interpreted in the same history of atrocities? I would think that the least incorrectly interpreted would be the most troublesome since it offer the believers the path of least intellectual resistance and mental gymnastics required for them to do the things that while considered 'atrocious' would be religiously sanctioned.

Whoa, not "incorrectly" interpreted ... more mis-interpreted. The difference being that one is an error
and the other is done on deliberately to serve one's purpose or argument.

Science is an excellent example. When enter the realm of quantum physics where we are largely ignorant about the foundation of physical or even metaphysical existence we see disagreements and even hostility among scientists regarding how to interpret the discovered data about that foundation. But outside of that we do no argue on how to arrive at so-and-such conclusions to build a building or a bicycle. The mathematics and the physics are indisputable. We kill each other figuratively in the market, not literally in any wars.

You're not making any sense.

How about instead of atrocities we take up charities? So then is the Bible the most incorrectly interpreted with regards to charities?

Again the term "incorrectly" denotes a mistake. People who mis-interpreted the Bible for their own purposes
do not make a mistake. Rather that they choose to use those words for their own benefit.
Hmm, why are we talking about atrocities??? Or, charities??

My reply before was an explanation of the mis-interpretation of any book.
That was done. Why continue to go down tangents and away from the topic at hand???
Please, you tired me out with this request for a meaningless reply.
Yes, meaningless cause you refuse to accept this point that any book can be mis-interpreted.

[chutzpah]

lol what selective amnesia? go ahead and list the countries that violently protested over terri jones' quran burning. according to the article you posted , only small group of mobs in afghanistan and pakistan acted out in violence. they already have anti US sentiment for US indiscrimiately bombing their villages for decades. knowing this and it would push them over the edge, US officials warned terri jones, who got media attention during 9/11 mosque building controversy, not to do it that it'll put US soldiers and other foreign workers in danger (they were right). conveniently he was promoting his new book at the time too.

and many yt users are burning quran and uploading it on yt. no deaths and violent protests over this. shocking isn't it? it only shows media has a control over sheeple like you to be scared all the time.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Qur'...ing_controversy

Small rallies were reported in Pakistan in Karachi and the central Pakistani city Multan with around 200 protesters.[68] There were also protests in Indonesia, Gaza, and India, a non-Muslim majority country.[75] On September 15, regarding reports that at least 20 deaths worldwide were connected to Quran desecration protests, Randall Terry responded that "Such logic is like saying that a woman who is abused by her boyfriend or husband is guilty of bringing violence on herself because she said or did something that irritated him."[76]

Protests in Kashmir escalated over several days, as Quran demonstrations quickly turned into separatist protests against the Indian government in the Muslim-majority province. On September 13, protesters defied a military-imposed curfew, setting fire to a Christian missionary school and government buildings. At least 13 people were shot dead by police, and one policeman was killed by a thrown rock; at least 113 policemen and 45 protesters were wounded.[77][78] On September 12, a church was burned and a curfew instituted in Punjab.[79] Violence also spread into Poonch in the Jammu division, with three protesters shot by police. Protesters burned several government offices and vehicles.[80] Police prevented the burning of a Christian school in Poonch, and another in Mendhar the next day, in clashes leaving four protesters killed, 19 wounded, but dozens of government offices, a police station, and eight vehicles were burned.[81] As of September 16, the Hindustan Times placed the death toll at 90, blaming much of the resentment on the indefinite military curfew, the first in ten years to affect the entire Kashmir Valley.[82][83]

In Somalia, the al-Qaida-inspired group Al-Shabaab organized a protest rally against the Quran-burning attended by thousands.[84]
The head of Iran's Islamic Culture and Relations Organization labeled the Quran burning proposal a "Zionist" insult.[85] A group of Iranian students also protested outside the Swiss embassy in Tehran to protest the desecration of the Qu'ran, and chanted slogans condemned the desecration on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Other sources:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/04/u...i_n_705973.html

http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/burning-t...hs-about-islam/

http://www.sananews.net/english/2011/03/26...9s-desecration/

http://www.topix.com/forum/us/T08CC4L33RA5V3IOM

[Jarhier]

In Somalia, the al-Qaida-inspired group Al-Shabaab organized a protest rally against the Quran-burning attended by thousands.[84]
The head of Iran's Islamic Culture and Relations Organization labeled the Quran burning proposal a "Zionist" insult.[85] A group of Iranian students also protested outside the Swiss embassy in Tehran to protest the desecration of the Qu'ran, and chanted slogans condemned the desecration on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Other sources:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/04/u...i_n_705973.html

http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/burning-t...hs-about-islam/

http://www.sananews.net/english/2011/03/26...9s-desecration/

http://www.topix.com/forum/us/T08CC4L33RA5V3IOM

were they even worth mentioning?

some of those protests weren't even violent.

i'd assumed there will be millions upon millions of deaths over quran burning. i guess they are not barbaric as you try to depict them as.

[elleX0]

were they even worth mentioning?

some of those protests weren't even violent.

i'd assumed there will be millions upon millions of deaths over quran burning. i guess they are not barbaric as you try to depict them as.

Can anyone show me the verse in the Quran or the hadith that stipulates that it is wrong to Burn the Holy book, i/e., the Quran?

[sawan]

My thought here:

Freedom of speech is important.

People are free by nature to say whatever they want to say.

But a more important thing is "Freedom of not to say"

We have thousands of things to say in our head, it's not difficult to say it out loud.

Actually, we are forced by our Kiles to say things, whether it's appropriate or not; we are not so free to choose, we are driven by our Kiles to say things which can return some bad result later.

So, the harder thing is not to say what you want to say, but not to say something you shouldn't say.

A monk told me this: before you say something, think first whether that thing should be said or not. Will it be good or bad for you or for people around you who hear it or not.

You do it everytime and you will say lesser and lesser and you won't hurt anyone unitentionally.

That's when you have a "Freedom of not to say"

Then the law is irrelevant here.

[chutzpah]

@ sawan, you mean the concept of silence is golden, I have no problem with that. But I think you missed the point of the article. It is about the right to speak up for what you believe in. This also extends to the right to speak against injustices and evil done to the defenceless. It also includes the right to speak up when you feel your cultural values and your faith are in danger of being swamped by an alien foreign one which has the total opposite value and belief system than your homeland. If you don't speak up against evil that is happening, than you are part of it too.

[elleX0]

@ sawan, you mean the concept of silence is golden, I have no problem with that. But I think you missed the point of the article. It is about the right to speak up for what you believe in. This also extends to the right to speak against injustices and evil done to the defenceless. It also includes the right to speak up when you feel your cultural values and your faith are in danger of being swamped by an alien foreign one which has the total opposite value and belief system than your homeland. If you don't speak up against evil that is happening, than you are part of it too.

I agree chutzpah, but one should speak only if one has the correct information and to use it with decorum, i.e. not descend to attacking the messenger. The trouble is there are so many empty drums that make so much noise that we cannot discern the truth from the lies.

[sawan]

People speak up because they are afraid that their voice won't be heard.

They are afraid that they will disappear from this world if no one hear them.

You see? it's hard for me to read only, so I have to post a bit to confirm myself that I still exist in this world.

[GentleWind]

People speak up because they are afraid that their voice won't be heard.

They are afraid that they will disappear from this world if no one hear them.

You see? it's hard for me to read only, so I have to post a bit to confirm myself that I still exist in this world.

What's up old farmer?

This post has been edited by GentleWind: Jun 1 2011, 08:38 PM

[elleX0]

What's up old farmer?

You must be joking?

[sawan]

What's up old farmer?

Hi GW, long time no see.

It's hard for you not to post, right?

[tangawizi]

Sawan! did u get the japanese on your farm???

[elleX0]

Hi GW, long time no see.

It's hard for you not to post, right?

What did you say? I have not heard anything worthwhile yet.

[sawan]

Sawan! did u get the japanese on your farm???

ha ha . nobody contact me.
No one want to leave their motherland, if not neccessary, I guess.

[GentleWind]

Hi GW, long time no see.

It's hard for you not to post, right?

Yes that's true.

[avisitor]

People speak up because they are afraid that their voice won't be heard.

They are afraid that they will disappear from this world if no one hear them.

You see? it's hard for me to read only, so I have to post a bit to confirm myself that I still exist in this world.

Wow, I thought you would have found peace. Guess you were too busy chasing the girls???
Wait, you are afraid you will disappear from this world if no one hear you??
Don't worry, I hear your words ... I don't make much sense from it
But, I do read it ...

Now, that I confirm you exist in this world ... now would you return the favor and confirm that I am here too???