Is Taiwanese Chinese? Options

[chutzpah]

Most 30 something Taiwanese insist that they are not Chinese but Taiwanese. They also insist that they don't even speak Chinese but Taiwanese. But the 'Taiwanese' spoken widely in Taiwan is actually a dialect from Southern China.

Is Taiwanese Chinese?

[MorbidlyObese]

Yes, 98% of them are ethnic Han Chinese, and 2% of them are not Han Chinese, but are Taiwanese aborigines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China

This post has been edited by MorbidlyObese: Dec 23 2010, 01:06 PM

[zoopiter]

Most 30 something Taiwanese insist that they are not Chinese but Taiwanese. They also insist that they don't even speak Chinese but Taiwanese. But the 'Taiwanese' spoken widely in Taiwan is actually a dialect from Southern China.

Is Taiwanese Chinese?

the answer depends on who u ask, because it lies in the grey zone. identity is ultimately one regard themselves as, and in this aspects, taiwanese are divided in their opinions on this matter, depending on their ancestry, which is why the answer is not straightforward. it can be simpler that way, let those taiwanese who regard themselves as chinese as chinese, and let those taiwanese who do not be so too. that will bring to the next question, is taiwanese who regard themselves as chinese to be disregarded as taiwanese, and should the minority of taiwanese who regard themselves as chinese impose their own identity recognition on those who doesn;t?

the last question have particular bearing. the pro-indonesian militants in east timor bring an onslaught of massacre when the nation overwhelming votes for independence. but dwelling too much on separate identities can have bad effects too, which is exemplified between the tutsi and hutus in rwanda.

[robot_devil]

Most are Han descent, but at times, it can be hard to tell because many like dress up and pretend to be Japanese.

http://www.mutantfrog.com/wp-content/uploa...09/leejapan.jpg

This post has been edited by robot_devil: Dec 24 2010, 08:24 PM

[LittleDeathAngel]

Chinese as in having the same beliefs as those in mainland China, no.

Han Chinese, yes.

[zombie]

I'm honestly sick and tired of this topic. It's funny because in most cases this argument is always brought on by Chinese/ Taiwanese Americans who have been white washed and lack any cultural awareness. These same people frequently lack the ability to differentiate between simple concepts like ethnicity and nationality.

For the last fu-king time. This is a non issue if you've ever been to Taiwan where a great majority of Taiwanese DO consider themselves to be of ethnic Han Chinese descent but the great majority of Taiwanese DON'T consider themselves to be Chinese nationals.


It's really a non-issue that ABC's love bringing up on the internet for some reason.

[chutzpah]

I'm honestly sick and tired of this topic. It's funny because in most cases this argument is always brought on by Chinese/ Taiwanese Americans who have been white washed and lack any cultural awareness. These same people frequently lack the ability to differentiate between simple concepts like ethnicity and nationality.

For the last fu-king time. This is a non issue if you've ever been to Taiwan where a great majority of Taiwanese DO consider themselves to be of ethnic Han Chinese descent but the great majority of Taiwanese DON'T consider themselves to be Chinese nationals.


It's really a non-issue that ABC's love bringing up on the internet for some reason.

I think you miss my point. I ask this because it strikes me as strange. I often spend time in Taipei, it looks very much like a Chinese country. By Chinese I mean ethnically not politically. Both the spoken and written langauge are Chinese. Many traditions are Chinese and the cultural institutions and certainly the National Palace Museum in Taipei houses all the artifacts from China, so Taiwan cultural history at least the pre Jiang period is derived from China.

It's puzzling therefore that many Taiwanese I meet insist that they are not Chinese. And they don't mean that they are not PRC nationals god forbids! I think they truly believe that they are Taiwanese ethnically that is, nationality a side, that they speak only Taiwanese what ever that is.

[KraterosHellas]

they are chinese, they are all the same. even poltically i consider them all the same. taiwan is not a country

[zoopiter]

certainly the National Palace Museum in Taipei houses all the artifacts from China, so Taiwan cultural history at least the pre Jiang period is derived from China.

that is post jiang then. not pre. rite?
and it is not surprising, taiwan went through half a century of nipponification and more than half a century of sinification. even now, there is still a tug of war between opposing parties in the country. and the problem with the hoklo and hakka is that their written format, like many other east asian languages, are still based on sinography. taiwanese are not strong in english and are not used to the idea of romanization, so once they are used to chinese influences, it will be difficult to return to the original state.

and ironically, i do not think there is true interest in aboriginal culture. if there are, they should at least rename those places that have a native name. for example, alishan is jarissang. that will give a stronger sense of belonging as the uniqueness of each place and its true historical relevance will be preserved rather than buried or denied.

It's puzzling therefore that many Taiwanese I meet insist that they are not Chinese. And they don't mean that they are not PRC nationals god forbids! I think they truly believe that they are Taiwanese ethnically that is, nationality a side, that they speak only Taiwanese what ever that is.

since u already know it as a personal fact, there is probably no need for u to ask since for sure there are going to be people who will tell you what they believe in, would like to be, and take that as what is the case in taiwan. i've been there many times, the longest single duration for 8 months, so i know what the taiwanese thinks, from both parties, not everything but enough to tell what is blatantly false and what may be true or may not be true. we all know what can be quoted off the wikipedia but not everything is on wikipedia.

[chutzpah]

that is post jiang then. not pre. rite?

Ops! Quite right I meant pre.

since u already know it as a personal fact, there is probably no need for u to ask since for sure there are going to be people who will tell you what they believe in, would like to be, and take that as what is the case in taiwan. i've been there many times, the longest single duration for 8 months, so i know what the taiwanese thinks, from both parties, not everything but enough to tell what is blatantly false and what may be true or may not be true. we all know what can be quoted off the wikipedia but not everything is on wikipedia.

My perception aside it interest me to find out what the majority of the Taiwanese view themselves racially/ethnically and culturally. As you have spent sometimes, would you share your thought on the matter?

[iMoonER]

TAIWAN IS ONE OF PROVINCES OF CHINA,OKAY?THERE'S NO NEED TO TALK ABOUT.
AS TO YOUR CONFUSION,I JUST SAY THAT,TAIWAN HAS ITS OWN CULTURE.EVERY PROVINCE HAS ITS OWN SPECIAL CULTURE.

[xentradi97]

Most 30 something Taiwanese insist that they are not Chinese but Taiwanese. They also insist that they don't even speak Chinese but Taiwanese. But the 'Taiwanese' spoken widely in Taiwan is actually a dialect from Southern China.

Is Taiwanese Chinese?

That's like asking are Americans English? New Zealanders and Aussies English? Ethnically certainly. But over time migrant people tend to develop their own identity. And that's what you are seeing.

Will Taiwan ever unite with China? Maybe. Or Maybe not. It'll all depends on Taiwan's consensus. Just like kids who once leave home to gain independence from their parents never comes home (so they can have their own life making decisions of their own free from nagging of their parents) I bet most Taiwanese want their own sovereignty.

Despite political nationalism trying desperately to put two together, who wants to be interfered by anyone other than their own people in this day and age, for whatever the issue?

[Suijen]

^ But the "Taiwanese" identity has only been around 20 years or so.

[charizardpal]

^ But the "Taiwanese" identity has only been around 20 years or so.

Only 20 years? Are you suuuuuuuuuure? The break between the two countries was more like 50-60 years ago.

[orange peel]

^ yup but before jiang jie shi died anyone who spoke of taiwanese as an alternative to chinese got sent to the gallows

[Suijen]

Only 20 years? Are you suuuuuuuuuure? The break between the two countries was more like 50-60 years ago.

Very sure. You can track polls that show when people started to stop referring themselves to Chinese and more towards Taiwanese. It started to increase dramatically after LTH took power.

This post has been edited by Suijen: Jan 15 2011, 01:57 AM

[ClassicalMusic]

They need to stop lying to themselves

[masamunecyrus]

Based on the Taiwanese that I have had contact with in the USA, Japan, and Taiwan (a little more than a handful):

Older Taiwanese (older than mid-30s) often consider themselves Chinese. 中華, not 中國.

Younger Taiwanese most often consider themselves Taiwanese, and not Chinese, at all.

Often, older Taiwanese dream about a world where mainland China and Taiwan were a single country. However, none of them ever wish to join the People's Republic, even if they get to keep their freedom and independence. They feel that they're Chinese and feel proud of their many-thousand year heritage, but they very much dislike the Communist Party and its entire ideology.


In my opinion, this is the natural order of things. When the USA split off from Great Britain, the vast majority of people were English. Their ethnicity was English, their language was English, their history was English, and most of their culture and customs were English. "English" does not equal "England," however. As time went on, the American identity developed. England and America hated each other, with England thinking for years that the United States was a rogue colony that must be brought back by force, if necessary. However, now England and America are separate countries and the best of friends. Other former English colonies have gone the same route. IMO, China's chance to take back Taiwan ended decades ago. It's over, and Taiwan is going on its separate path. I hope that mainland China can keep its cool and slowly unclench its iron fist with regard to Taiwan in the future, as well as learn from its incredibly difficult struggle for democracy.

[orange peel]

Based on the Taiwanese that I have had contact with in the USA, Japan, and Taiwan (a little more than a handful):

Older Taiwanese (older than mid-30s) often consider themselves Chinese. 中華, not 中國.

Younger Taiwanese most often consider themselves Taiwanese, and not Chinese, at all.

Often, older Taiwanese dream about a world where mainland China and Taiwan were a single country. However, none of them ever wish to join the People's Republic, even if they get to keep their freedom and independence. They feel that they're Chinese and feel proud of their many-thousand year heritage, but they very much dislike the Communist Party and its entire ideology.


In my opinion, this is the natural order of things. When the USA split off from Great Britain, the vast majority of people were English. Their ethnicity was English, their language was English, their history was English, and most of their culture and customs were English. "English" does not equal "England," however. As time went on, the American identity developed. England and America hated each other, with England thinking for years that the United States was a rogue colony that must be brought back by force, if necessary. However, now England and America are separate countries and the best of friends. Other former English colonies have gone the same route. IMO, China's chance to take back Taiwan ended decades ago. It's over, and Taiwan is going on its separate path. I hope that mainland China can keep its cool and slowly unclench its iron fist with regard to Taiwan in the future, as well as learn from its incredibly difficult struggle for democracy.

the difference? those united states and Britain were separated by the Atlantic ocean in the age of sail.

[KraterosHellas]

the difference? those united states and Britain were separated by the Atlantic ocean in the age of sail.

the difference is that those americans weren't given a seat in the british parliament as they deserved being british subjects. they weren't asking for complete independence to begin with or a complete change in the government system. the founding fathers were elitest and against letting ordinary people vote just like the british who controlled the government.

as for china and taiwan, they want completely different systems of government. and taiwan is not even recognized as a country whereas america was in europe, even by great britain. another difference is that america actively fought against british harassment even when they knew that britain was the strongest power at the time with an unrivalled navy. they reaffirmed their independence in the war of 1812 very strategically executed at a time when britain was preoccupied with the napoleonic wars europe.

nations are forged in blood and iron.