The Suppression of Cantonese Becomes Vigorous Options

[TMM]

in all likelihood, the hk spouse's mandarin is going to be better than the mainland spouse's cantonese. so their family life is probably going to be speaking mandarin. (as someone already mention) to be frank, the ability to absorb and assimilate so many mainlanders and half mainlander is not something we are optimistic about.

if it was just a small percentage, of course its no problem. but since its so large, they could have mando groups in the places where typically HK would assimilate someone. like school for example. they wouldnt be as pressured to assimilate. this is true all over the world when you have a large minority community.

but its hands are tied when it comes to dealing with mainland. options are very limited. HK wont be the only ones facing this issue though in the future as more and more mainland immigrants go everywhere.

As sad as it may sound, it's a process of any developed society in terms of marriage. In a developed society, women tend to be more independent, self sufficient and not to mention overly materialistic now, thus causing men to seek other options. Same thing is happening in Taiwan and S.Korea as many of the men imported wives from SEA or even China. But you shouldn't worry too much as Cantonese is still the official Chinese in HK, and majority still speaks Cantonese so i don't see how these mainland-hk offspring will able to survive without a bit of Cantonese. The Cantonese tv programs and other sort of stuff should have effects on those offspring.

I'll tell you my case, my cousins was born in Guangdong, rather than their native province and got assimilated with the surrounding there, even their family, my uncles and aunties can speak Cantonese well but they know their native tongue since they came from Fujian. Their children however sucks in Fujianese but excel in Cantonese and they are still in elementary schools which teaches Mandarin. I may be worry at times but it's a process and forcing them to learn Fujianese isn't a good way...too much pressure..ya know? But that's that.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

the thing is would they have learned cantonese if they were in a fujianese community. there are going to be huge groups of at least half mando soon.


anyway, heres an update:


Provincial officials in defence of Cantonese
Guangdong to boost local cultural heritage

Ivan Zhai
Jul 17, 2010
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Debate over the future of Cantonese in Guangdong and the perceived threat from Putonghua has intensified, with officials and influential figures saying that the local culture and dialect should be respected.

Guangzhou residents are taking the initiative to protect their mother tongue, with a call for people to gather next Sunday and recite Cantonese - a subtle form of protest - winning widespread support.

Against this background, top provincial leaders started a two-day meeting yesterday to discuss "cultural development in Guangdong", a propaganda department official said.

It's a development that underlines the significance of regional tensions on the mainland and anger at edicts from Beijing seen to undermine local culture.

The official said the government would release a policy outline and new regulations afterwards to boost "Cantonese cultural heritage".

The authorities also plan to hold a public forum, the official said, describing it as "one of the hottest topics that have grabbed our leaders' attention".

The forum, also scheduled to take place next Sunday, will be organised jointly by the general office of the Guangdong government, the provincial Development and Reform Commission and the propaganda department. Scholars, teachers, students and businesspeople will all be invited to attend.

"Of course we will discuss how to protect Cantonese at the forum. This is such a hot topic recently," the official said, and noted that even provincial party secretary Wang Yang had spoken out on the issue earlier this month. Wang was said to have pledged that "we won't let Cantonese culture die in our generation".

The spark that set off the debate was a controversial proposal by Guangzhou's political advisory body this month that the provincial capital's main television channel switch programming from Cantonese to Putonghua to make the city a friendlier place for visitors from other provinces during the Asian Games in November.

The idea touched a raw nerve with many residents, who already felt their culture and language was under threat from the central government's promotion of Putonghua and an influx of migrants from other provinces.

Many people complain that Beijing's policy of mandating the use of Putonghua for all formal occasions as well as in schools has marginalised Cantonese - a major Chinese dialect with a long history.

The advisory body proposed the switch even though more than 80 per cent of the 30,000 people who responded to its own survey said they were against the idea.

It has sparked off heated debate throughout the province, with many Guangdong people calling for action to protect their mother tongue. They regard the proposal, together with other, similar policies, as an attempt to suppress local tradition and character. Guangdong people, although part of the Han Chinese family, are proud of their unique heritage and their long history of defiance of central authority.

Many argue Cantonese is a more orthodox and traditional language than Putonghua - previously known as Mandarin - which is a mixture of the northern Chinese dialect, Manchurian and Mongolian.

Prominent public figures have joined in the debate. Flu expert Dr Zhong Nanshan - the mainland's severe acute respiratory syndrome hero and a widely respected Guangdong native - said he strongly opposed the use of Putonghua to replace Cantonese. "Cantonese is not just a kind of dialect. It also carries the [essence] of southern Chinese culture and our identity as Cantonese people," he was quoted as saying by GZTV Evening News - the station's most popular programme - on Thursday.

The move to "protect Cantonese" has quickly turned into a unifying force for Guangdong people amid the identity crisis they face.

A call by some internet users for Guangzhou residents to gather to defend their mother tongue spread fast and has been echoed widely in internet forums. Those behind the call asked people to take part in several "cultural events" next Sunday.

The first would be held near a subway station exit, with participants engaging in a mini-game to teach people Cantonese colloquial phrases and sayings. There would be a rally later to call for the preservation of Cantonese culture. As many as 20,000 people are said to have told the organisers they will attend. The organisers said they would seek approval for the rally from Guangzhou's Public Security Bureau.

A bureau spokesman said it had not received any application yet.

This post has been edited by Mid-Night_Sun: Jul 16 2010, 05:54 PM

[BurdenOfAges]

get your fact right. cantonese is much more ancinet than mandarin is with a lot of ancien tones preserved
what do you mean by south native became sinitic overtime ? if you dont know jack about our history then better keep quiet and stop prteneedign to be an expert

cantonese is basically the language of tang which can rhyme better in the tang poetry than any other chinese dialects with a lot of missing tones of the ancinet han language
im really annoyed and disgusted by your fake knowledge

be honest, are you even chinese? i been observing you for a while now. you talk like foreginer who pretend to knows a lot of chinese history
only oversea asian and other asian will believe your imaginative fake infromations

The antiquity of Cantonese has no bearing on what I'm saying. Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite. They could've chosen Cantonese, and it would've had the same effect. Nations are still entities formed around mass communication, and I still think you cannot have a nation that is exclusively multi-lingual. What is happening in China is the result of a historical empire attempting to become a modern nation-state - and one principle aspect of modern nation-states is its reliance on a single official language, which eventually erodes the popularity and then the number of speakers for other languages because, simply put, it is more economically expedient to learn the common tongue and people are lazy, and therefore tend toward mono-lingualism. This is happening everywhere, not just in China.

Your generation of Cantonese speakers may never have to make the choice, explicitly, but implicitly, you have already made it by not seeking independence from China. China's official language is Mandarin, and that will have drastic consequences for all non-Mandarin languages. In fact, this has precedence even before modern China. It happened during the Zhou, when the various Yi, Di, and Man tribes merged with the Xia to form the ancient Chinese. It happened during the Han, when the southern Chinese languages were created from synthesizing Old Chinese and the native tongues. And it happened in every subsequent dynasty. Cantonese was born out of such a merging, and it will fade into such a merging. Such is the way of history.

This post has been edited by BurdenOfAges: Jul 22 2010, 11:26 AM

[tianya]

The antiquity of Cantonese has no bearing on what I'm saying. Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite. They could've chosen Cantonese, and it would've had the same effect. Nations are still entities formed around mass communication, and I still think you cannot have a nation that is exclusively multi-lingual. What is happening in China is the result of a historical empire attempting to become a modern nation-state - and one principle aspect of modern nation-states is its reliance on a single official language, which eventually erodes the popularity and then the number of speakers for other languages because, simply put, it is more economically expedient to learn the common tongue and people are lazy, and therefore tend toward mono-lingualism. This is happening everywhere, not just in China.

Your generation of Cantonese speakers may never have to make the choice, explicitly, but implicitly, you have already made it by not seeking independence from China. China's official language is Mandarin, and that will have drastic consequences for all non-Mandarin languages. In fact, this has precedence even before modern China. It happened during the Zhou, when the various Yi, Di, and Man tribes merged with the Xia to form the ancient Chinese. It happened during the Han, when the southern Chinese languages were created from synthesizing Old Chinese and the native tongues. And it happened in every subsequent dynasty. Cantonese was born out of such a merging, and it will fade into such a merging. Such is the way of history.

你想说啥？

This post has been edited by tianya: Jul 22 2010, 10:30 PM

[Chan-Ho]

The antiquity of Cantonese has no bearing on what I'm saying. Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite. They could've chosen Cantonese, and it would've had the same effect. Nations are still entities formed around mass communication, and I still think you cannot have a nation that is exclusively multi-lingual. What is happening in China is the result of a historical empire attempting to become a modern nation-state - and one principle aspect of modern nation-states is its reliance on a single official language, which eventually erodes the popularity and then the number of speakers for other languages because, simply put, it is more economically expedient to learn the common tongue and people are lazy, and therefore tend toward mono-lingualism. This is happening everywhere, not just in China.

Your generation of Cantonese speakers may never have to make the choice, explicitly, but implicitly, you have already made it by not seeking independence from China. China's official language is Mandarin, and that will have drastic consequences for all non-Mandarin languages. In fact, this has precedence even before modern China. It happened during the Zhou, when the various Yi, Di, and Man tribes merged with the Xia to form the ancient Chinese. It happened during the Han, when the southern Chinese languages were created from synthesizing Old Chinese and the native tongues. And it happened in every subsequent dynasty. Cantonese was born out of such a merging, and it will fade into such a merging. Such is the way of history.

BoA.... oh how you enlighten us all....

[tianya]

BoA.... oh how you enlighten us all....

Why not u 2 just return to ur Korean Sentry?

[warakawa]

Why not u 2 just return to ur Korean Sentry?

Seriously, why are so many racist posts on this forum? Why can't people let others have their right of expression whether they are Chinese, Korean, Viets, Japanese, or whatever.

[Suijen]

 ^ Chan-Ho made himself unpopular here because he suggested that Guangdong should separate from mainland China because he thought Guangdong was being oppressed to learn Mandarin.  Considering that from what I see, half of the members here have Cantonese roots, we considered the idea hilarious and offensive at the same time.  Our mandarin isn't that bad.  Just don't ask us to say forty-four in Mandarin.  

The antiquity of Cantonese has no bearing on what I'm saying. Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite. They could've chosen Cantonese, and it would've had the same effect. Nations are still entities formed around mass communication, and I still think you cannot have a nation that is exclusively multi-lingual. What is happening in China is the result of a historical empire attempting to become a modern nation-state - and one principle aspect of modern nation-states is its reliance on a single official language, which eventually erodes the popularity and then the number of speakers for other languages because, simply put, it is more economically expedient to learn the common tongue and people are lazy, and therefore tend toward mono-lingualism. This is happening everywhere, not just in China.

This is pretty much it.  It doesn't help that the founding fathers of China, despite being Southerners, still pressed on Mandarin to be China's putonghua pretty much says it all; the language spoken by the majority of Chinese should be the national language.  Even if there were no laws making Mandarin required learning by law, everyone would still learn it because it would be the economic and sensible thing to do.  That, or you can be totally Politically Correct and master every Chinese dialect out there.   Even Hong Kongers right now are learning Mandarin, not because they're required to, but because their jobs are going to be looking for it.  Eventually, as economic integration between HK and the mainland increases, there's just going to be an overwhelming incentive to just use Mandarin.  It beats speaking English.  

This post has been edited by Suijen: Jul 23 2010, 04:30 AM

[TaiwaneseSpy]

>Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite.

We f**ck hard those ruling elites. As long as it wasn't chosen by the nation, it has no use just like Japanese.

[warakawa]

^ how else we going to have a lingua franca? democracy-style voting on a national language back in the 1950s?

[TaiwaneseSpy]

Don't look towards West. Although, most of knowledge comes in English today, it's totally nothing for me to learn one more dialect. Who needs to create that Chinese lingua franca if it's English already. Surely, you can see white kids speaking Cantonese from time to time in places like Vancouver, but it's rather exception than something ever ordinary.

Kill commies first, they are far more severe problem than any linguistic problem.

[tianya]

Seriously, why are so many racist posts on this forum? Why can't people let others have their right of expression whether they are Chinese, Korean, Viets, Japanese, or whatever.

Sure.
But I can not understand why some koreans tried hard to tell us who is chinese and who is not chinese?
And I also do not know why some ppl here like to pretend to be a "chinese" experts. Even though he/she does not any experience to china.

BTW freedom of speech does not mean making fake news like this. The original of news in Nanfang daily are totally different from this.


This post has been edited by tianya: Jul 24 2010, 04:36 AM

[zombie]

haha maybe we should all go to Kchat and start lecturing them about who's Korean and who isn't Korean. I'm sure all those K Nazis over there would love that.

[ktoast]

Mid-Night_Sun:

You see..this thread is a classic example of HKers working together in "troop" if you didn't know what I meant before:) Which explains why such survey you mentioned before done by HKers can be faked by the participants. The truth is marrying a white in HK is considered is looked up on highly by society.

And no I not butthurt. lol

No, I disagree. It's not marrying somebody that's White, its marrying somebody WEALTHY. Most Whites in HK are usually tourists. I know many Chinese families, and their parents encourage their children to marry other Chinese. It's considered a bit shameful to marry non-Chinese. I don't know about your uprbringing - did YOUR parents encourage you to marry a White person?

[pka7]

These were photos of "Support Cantonese Rally" in Guangzhou yesterday.

Still the same slogan "Cantonese take off. Mandarin **** off"

A guy called this "revolution" in his weibo .



Middle Fingers!





Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNHBggsfl-U...player_embedded
People are yelling "sau pei". (f*** off)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKyVU_dizrA
People are yelling "anti suppress cantonese"

tvb news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBUi3fP7uqQ



"Promote Mandarin Machine - Terminator of Mother Tongue"
"Guangzhou, the next will be you"



Protesters gather in Guangzhou to protect Cantonese language
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/2...otect-cantonese

This post has been edited by pka7: Jul 25 2010, 12:52 PM

[bear11]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/2...otect-cantonese
it is the first language for half of the 14 million residents of the provincial capital Guangzhou, while the other half speak mainly Mandarin.

[pka7]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/2...otect-cantonese
it is the first language for half of the 14 million residents of the provincial capital Guangzhou, while the other half speak mainly Mandarin.

So????
I think there are more Mandarin speakers than Tibetan speakers in Tibet right now zzzzzzzz
Besides, people just want the government respect the Cantonese language more.
Cantonese people do speak Mandarin. Why isn't there any Cantonese class provided in schools and only Mandarin provided?
Why can't they tolerate a few Cantonese channels among the sea of Mandarin channels.


Taiwan now provide Taiwanese and Hakka class in schools.
People still speak Mandarin for lingua franca but they certainly respect and give space to other native and Chinese languages now.
All the other Chinese languages are cultural fossil. They have stood on the land of China for thousands of years.

This is 21 st century. People who move to Canton should learn Cantonese. Cantonese people have studied Mandarin for long time.
Why can't schools in China provide classes for other Chinese languages besides Mandarin???????
It is so ridiculous that they emphasize on the importance of Spanish and totally ignore the languages of their own races.

This post has been edited by pka7: Jul 25 2010, 03:12 PM

[One1ManAgainstTh...]

first off , im a fuking cantonese. and i am neutral on this.

these stupid asholes are totally barking at the wrogn three. i see no reason for them to get mad at the mandarin language.
it is just the internal problem of the local guongzhou government that licking the @$$ of beijing. nothing to do with the mandarin they should set their aim on the guognzhou government and communist not any one else.

these asholes have no brains withotu any sense of rationality, they should know whats the root of the real problem first before take any action or barking


Edit: however, they deserve some props for their strong desire in protecting the chinese culture and language. the communist never give a damn whatever language or culture preserving, they want to assimiliate all the different dialect speaking chinese as one and destory their sense of being disctive chinese group from the rest of chinesse so it can be easier for them to manage and manipulate us
communist are so fuking scared and sensitive when they see any people grouping together and formign whatever party
dialect speaking people are probably one of them although it never appeared as a prooblem or threat to their central government but if they continue to do these kind of unnessary things,a non-problem will eventually turn into a big problem soon. they are nto very wise bunch of dumbasses

which is why they were so fukign scared of fat lun gong with a membership of over 100 million world wide and had to destory them off mainladn china
fat lun gung are totally innocent i have met some of their people before they are very decent peopel and their belief contained nothign evil or satanitc


communist are laughable and childish people

This post has been edited by One1ManAgainstTheWorld: Jul 25 2010, 04:17 PM

[tianya]

Cantonese is not the dominate language in Canto.

[pka7]

Cantonese is not the dominate language in Canto.

lol

50 cents for you