Arab Christians express concern about Malaysian Bible row, the Arab can't be wrong Options

[chutzpah]

Source: http://www.heraldmalaysia.com/news/Arab-Ch...-8320-28-1.html

Arab Christians express concern about Malaysian Bible row

March 14, 2011 at 10:00 AM

By Clara Chooi
PETALING JAYA: The lengthy row over Bahasa Malaysia Bibles and the “Allah” controversy has sparked off international concern among the Arab Christian community, triggering them to urge the Najib administraton for a quick resolution to the issues.

Religious leaders from the Lutheran World Federation (LWF), led by its president, Bishop Munib A. Younan, met with unity affairs minister Tan Sri Dr Koh Tsu Koon last Thursday, where both issues were discussed extensively.

Younan also urged Koh to initiate the release of the 35,000 Malay-language Bibles currently held by the government in two separate ports in the country.

In the discussion, Younan had also told Koh that the tussle over the word “Allah” between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities here has baffled the Christians of the Arab world who have been using the word for over 2,000 years.

“Something we cannot understand in the Arab world and the whole world is when Malaysia prohibits Malaysian Christians from using the name of Allah because we have used it for 2,000 years and until this moment, no one has stopped us.

“If we, the Arab Christians are using it in the heart of the Muslim and Arab world, then why can’t the Malaysian Christians use it?” Younan told reporters in Armada Hotel here yesterday.

Younan, who is also the bishop for the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land (ELCJHL), added that it would be good for Malaysia to show a pluralistic nature by allowing non-Muslims to use “Allah” in their prayers as the country’s constitution provided for religious freedom.

“It is not a challenge to others or a cause for confusion... on the contrary, every religion has the right to use the name of God in any way that they want,” he stressed.

In rejecting the government’s move to detain 35,000 Malay-language Bibles, Younan pointed out that the holy books merely promoted love and moral deeds.

“I said (to Koh) that it does not give a good indication to this whole issue. I think it is very important that people have their own Bibles and to read them because it is better to have the Bible than to have something else because the Bible teaches you love of God and your neighbour,” he reasoned.

Younan added that he had also expressed hope to Koh that the Malaysian government emulated the move by the Jordanian King in allocating 5,000 square metres of free land to churches to allow them to build their respective houses of worship.

“The King gave every church 5,000 square metres of land free on the baptism site along the River Jordan. My Lutheran Church received this precious land, we got a permit and duty-free and tax-free materials to build it.

“We hope Malaysia can follow in these footsteps because it is important to help complete this freedom of religion in Malaysia,” he said.

Younan claimed that upon hearing the views during the over two hour meet, Koh promised that he would raise the issues up with the administration.

“I spoke to him in my capacity as the LWF president and he promised to do something. He has received our message and we will continue to write each other on this,” he said.

The LWF is a global communion of Christian churches in the Lutheran tradition founded in Sweden in 1947. It presently has 145 member churches in 79 countries across the globe, including four in Malaysia, and represents some 70 million Christians worldwide.

The Home Ministry has come under fire for its move to impound the Malay-language Bibles and is presently facing extreme pressure from the local Christian community and numerous political parties, including those in the Barisan Nasional (BN), to release the holy books.

Despite this, the ministry announced that it had passed the buck to the Attorney-General to decide, reasoning that the detention of the books had been due to the pending appeal over Catholic newspaper The Herald’s use of the word “Allah” in its publications.

Younan also disagreed with Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak’s recent assertion that Islam rejects pluralism, arguing that the religion in itself was pluralistic.

“Islam is a pluralistic religion. It has many trends, four schools of thinking and within these, many more trends of thinking.

“And if political leaders say Islam is not pluralistic, to me, this is unacceptable because then you would similarly have one party in politics and this works nowhere. You have to allow people of different understanding and conception together,” he said.

In a statement recently, Najib had warned Muslims against religious pluralism, saying that putting Islam on an equal footing with other faiths was unIslamic.

Religious pluralism is sometimes used as a synonym for interfaith dialogue or promotes understanding of different faiths with the objective of reducing conflicts.

Critics of religious pluralism however see the concept as a threat to the supremacy of Islam and claim that it would result in the religion to be equated with other beliefs.

Younan however voiced his understanding that in a multi-religious society such as Malaysia, misunderstandings between religions were bound to happen.

Citing his experiences as a son to two Palestinian refugees born in Israel and today a minority leader in the thick of the ongoing Palestine-Israel conflict, Younan said that the best method to resolve conflict was through dialogue sessions between the different religious communities.

Younan recalled that during the international controversy sparked off by an offensive caricature of the Prophet Muhammad in 2009, he had called for the signing of a “code of conduct” among religious leaders in the Middle East.

“So 48 Christian and Muslim leaders alike signed this code where we said that we have to respect each others’ traditions, symbolism, prophets, cultures and holy places. Freedom of expression does not mean insulting other religions.

“We were clear on these and together, we made this public. I believe that there are enough values in Christianity and Islam that are common like the acceptance of one another, justice and peace. It is enough for us to share a common ground,” he said.

Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard had invited heavy criticism from the Islamic world over his caricature of Prophet Muhammad wearing a bomb in his turban.

In another experience of interreligious dialogues in his home nation, Younan revealed that religious leaders of various faiths had independently formed a council of religious institutions in Jerusalem, known as the Holy Land, some five years back.

“We had the chief rabbis of Israel, the head of the Islamic Syariah court in Palestine, and the heads of the churches — the Catholics, the Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, all... and we are focussing on three objectives,” he said.

The council, he explained, had set up a special hotline to monitor any derogatory remarks made by one religion against the other.

“We monitor what the imams and the rabbis and the clergy are saying,” he said.

Secondly, Younan said, the council was now in the process of studying some 700 textbooks used in the school curriculum of Palestine and Israel to weed out discrepancies in any religious information.

“We have a team now reading about what these books are teaching about and once we are done, we will urge the government to change the curriculum to ensure that the books teach what they are suppose to teach about the various religions,” he said.

The council’s third objective, said Younan, was in developing a paper to compile the views of all religious leaders — the Muslims, Jews and Christians — on Jerusalem.

“The core of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is about Jerusalem and we believe that Jerusalem should be shared... for the Christians, Muslims, Jews, the Palestine, Israel, and only in such a way will there be peace in the Middle East,” he said.

He added that religious leaders in Malaysia should take similar initiatives to engage one another in dialogue independently in order to solve any religious crises in the country.

“But I cannot teach them what to do here, only offer these examples. Being an Arab Christian, we can help anytime if we are asked to because we have a long experience in this,” he said.

Younan admitted however that many often misconstrued dialogues as methods of proselytisation but stressed that it was the best way to promote moderation and reject extremism.

“When we dialogue, we speak on doctrines and we get to know each other’s teachings. The dialogue table should not be a battlefield for conversion but for the sake of being a good neighbour.

“We do not convert one another in dialogue, or work to convince one another of each person’s point of view... it is to present your point of view and if there are common values where Muslims and Christians can speak in one voice against injustices, then the dialogue is very powerful,” he said.

He expressed confidence that the Christian leaders of Malaysia were ready to engage in interfaith discussions with other religious leaders.

“And I believe that there are many Malay Muslim groups who want to do the same. For those who refuse, it is okay. We bring the moderates to the table. It must start from somewhere,” he said.

[humiliator]

What manner of name is 'chutzpah' ?

[nosfera2]

What manner of name is 'chutzpah' ?

Pardon me, but the only definition of Chutzpa I am aware of is the english translation which means insolence, audacity, impertinence, but can also mean spunk in modern American english usage. It's a Hebrew expression which is commonly used and made famous by American Jews in literature and film, unless it's just pure coincidence- But i am rather inclined to think otherwise after reading a lot of postings under his/her name... it actually suits him/her.

[nosfera2]

Source: http://www.heraldmalaysia.com/news/Arab-Ch...-8320-28-1.html

Arab Christians express concern about Malaysian Bible row

March 14, 2011 at 10:00 AM

By Clara Chooi
PETALING JAYA: The lengthy row over Bahasa Malaysia Bibles and the “Allah” controversy has sparked off international concern among the Arab Christian community, triggering them to urge the Najib administraton for a quick resolution to the issues.

Religious leaders from the Lutheran World Federation (LWF), led by its president, Bishop Munib A. Younan, met with unity affairs minister Tan Sri Dr Koh Tsu Koon last Thursday, where both issues were discussed extensively.

Younan also urged Koh to initiate the release of the 35,000 Malay-language Bibles currently held by the government in two separate ports in the country.

In the discussion, Younan had also told Koh that the tussle over the word “Allah” between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities here has baffled the Christians of the Arab world who have been using the word for over 2,000 years.

“Something we cannot understand in the Arab world and the whole world is when Malaysia prohibits Malaysian Christians from using the name of Allah because we have used it for 2,000 years and until this moment, no one has stopped us.

“If we, the Arab Christians are using it in the heart of the Muslim and Arab world, then why can’t the Malaysian Christians use it?” Younan told reporters in Armada Hotel here yesterday.

Younan, who is also the bishop for the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land (ELCJHL), added that it would be good for Malaysia to show a pluralistic nature by allowing non-Muslims to use “Allah” in their prayers as the country’s constitution provided for religious freedom.

“It is not a challenge to others or a cause for confusion... on the contrary, every religion has the right to use the name of God in any way that they want,” he stressed.

In rejecting the government’s move to detain 35,000 Malay-language Bibles, Younan pointed out that the holy books merely promoted love and moral deeds.

“I said (to Koh) that it does not give a good indication to this whole issue. I think it is very important that people have their own Bibles and to read them because it is better to have the Bible than to have something else because the Bible teaches you love of God and your neighbour,” he reasoned.

Younan added that he had also expressed hope to Koh that the Malaysian government emulated the move by the Jordanian King in allocating 5,000 square metres of free land to churches to allow them to build their respective houses of worship.

“The King gave every church 5,000 square metres of land free on the baptism site along the River Jordan. My Lutheran Church received this precious land, we got a permit and duty-free and tax-free materials to build it.

“We hope Malaysia can follow in these footsteps because it is important to help complete this freedom of religion in Malaysia,” he said.

Younan claimed that upon hearing the views during the over two hour meet, Koh promised that he would raise the issues up with the administration.

“I spoke to him in my capacity as the LWF president and he promised to do something. He has received our message and we will continue to write each other on this,” he said.

The LWF is a global communion of Christian churches in the Lutheran tradition founded in Sweden in 1947. It presently has 145 member churches in 79 countries across the globe, including four in Malaysia, and represents some 70 million Christians worldwide.

The Home Ministry has come under fire for its move to impound the Malay-language Bibles and is presently facing extreme pressure from the local Christian community and numerous political parties, including those in the Barisan Nasional (BN), to release the holy books.

Despite this, the ministry announced that it had passed the buck to the Attorney-General to decide, reasoning that the detention of the books had been due to the pending appeal over Catholic newspaper The Herald’s use of the word “Allah” in its publications.

Younan also disagreed with Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak’s recent assertion that Islam rejects pluralism, arguing that the religion in itself was pluralistic.

“Islam is a pluralistic religion. It has many trends, four schools of thinking and within these, many more trends of thinking.

“And if political leaders say Islam is not pluralistic, to me, this is unacceptable because then you would similarly have one party in politics and this works nowhere. You have to allow people of different understanding and conception together,” he said.

In a statement recently, Najib had warned Muslims against religious pluralism, saying that putting Islam on an equal footing with other faiths was unIslamic.

Religious pluralism is sometimes used as a synonym for interfaith dialogue or promotes understanding of different faiths with the objective of reducing conflicts.

Critics of religious pluralism however see the concept as a threat to the supremacy of Islam and claim that it would result in the religion to be equated with other beliefs.

Younan however voiced his understanding that in a multi-religious society such as Malaysia, misunderstandings between religions were bound to happen.

Citing his experiences as a son to two Palestinian refugees born in Israel and today a minority leader in the thick of the ongoing Palestine-Israel conflict, Younan said that the best method to resolve conflict was through dialogue sessions between the different religious communities.

Younan recalled that during the international controversy sparked off by an offensive caricature of the Prophet Muhammad in 2009, he had called for the signing of a “code of conduct” among religious leaders in the Middle East.

“So 48 Christian and Muslim leaders alike signed this code where we said that we have to respect each others’ traditions, symbolism, prophets, cultures and holy places. Freedom of expression does not mean insulting other religions.

“We were clear on these and together, we made this public. I believe that there are enough values in Christianity and Islam that are common like the acceptance of one another, justice and peace. It is enough for us to share a common ground,” he said.

Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard had invited heavy criticism from the Islamic world over his caricature of Prophet Muhammad wearing a bomb in his turban.

In another experience of interreligious dialogues in his home nation, Younan revealed that religious leaders of various faiths had independently formed a council of religious institutions in Jerusalem, known as the Holy Land, some five years back.

“We had the chief rabbis of Israel, the head of the Islamic Syariah court in Palestine, and the heads of the churches — the Catholics, the Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, all... and we are focussing on three objectives,” he said.

The council, he explained, had set up a special hotline to monitor any derogatory remarks made by one religion against the other.

“We monitor what the imams and the rabbis and the clergy are saying,” he said.

Secondly, Younan said, the council was now in the process of studying some 700 textbooks used in the school curriculum of Palestine and Israel to weed out discrepancies in any religious information.

“We have a team now reading about what these books are teaching about and once we are done, we will urge the government to change the curriculum to ensure that the books teach what they are suppose to teach about the various religions,” he said.

The council’s third objective, said Younan, was in developing a paper to compile the views of all religious leaders — the Muslims, Jews and Christians — on Jerusalem.

“The core of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is about Jerusalem and we believe that Jerusalem should be shared... for the Christians, Muslims, Jews, the Palestine, Israel, and only in such a way will there be peace in the Middle East,” he said.

He added that religious leaders in Malaysia should take similar initiatives to engage one another in dialogue independently in order to solve any religious crises in the country.

“But I cannot teach them what to do here, only offer these examples. Being an Arab Christian, we can help anytime if we are asked to because we have a long experience in this,” he said.

Younan admitted however that many often misconstrued dialogues as methods of proselytisation but stressed that it was the best way to promote moderation and reject extremism.

“When we dialogue, we speak on doctrines and we get to know each other’s teachings. The dialogue table should not be a battlefield for conversion but for the sake of being a good neighbour.

“We do not convert one another in dialogue, or work to convince one another of each person’s point of view... it is to present your point of view and if there are common values where Muslims and Christians can speak in one voice against injustices, then the dialogue is very powerful,” he said.

He expressed confidence that the Christian leaders of Malaysia were ready to engage in interfaith discussions with other religious leaders.

“And I believe that there are many Malay Muslim groups who want to do the same. For those who refuse, it is okay. We bring the moderates to the table. It must start from somewhere,” he said.

I totally agree. Malaysian Muslims do not have exclusive rights to the word/name "Allah", it is a historical fact that even the Muslim Arabs themselves accept. But the truth is, push comes to shove, Bahasa Melayu bibles can always use the old Hebrew name for the Christian God which is "Yahweh" or "Elohim" since only the Dutch Christians were the ones who introduced the name "Allah" in their BM translations of the bible (for obvious reasons). I wonder what the Vatican has to say about this issue...

[elleX0]

I totally agree. Malaysian Muslims do not have exclusive rights to the word/name "Allah", it is a historical fact that even the Muslim Arabs themselves accept. But the truth is, push comes to shove, Bahasa Melayu bibles can always use the old Hebrew name for the Christian God which is "Yahweh" or "Elohim" since only the Dutch Christians were the ones who introduced the name "Allah" in their BM translations of the bible (for obvious reasons). I wonder what the Vatican has to say about this issue...

It shows that Malay Muslims are arrogant ignorant people and do not understand language or literature if they do not even know the source and meaning of the word Allah.

[booriiss]

Çäðàâñòâóéòå ìåíÿ çîâóò Íèêîëàé Áîðèñîâè÷.Âíóê çàêàçàë â èíòåðíåò ìàãàçèíå HTTP://WWW.KIRA-MEBEL.RU ÊÈÐÀ ÌÅÁÅËÜäèâàí÷èê **Ñàìóðàé**.Âðîäå âñ¸ íîðìàëüíî,ïðèâåçëè åãî õîòÿ â 2 ÷àñà íî÷è.Íî òåðïèìî.Âñ¸ ðàâíî ïîñëå âîéíû-áåññîíèöà.Ñëûøó ìàøèíà ïîäüåõàëà.Ãàçåëü.ß æèâó íà âòîðîì ýòàæå âñ¸ âèæó è ñëûøó.Ìàò –ïåðåìàò.ñìåõ.ðæà÷ü.ÂÈÆÓ-äèâàí ñîñêàëüçûâàåò ïàäàåò.Îäèí-äðóãîìó ãîâîðèò áëÿòü Ïîðâàëè,äðóãîé –äà ïîõ…..é âïàðèì !Âñòàíèøü âîçëå óãëà-ïðèêðîåøü Àíäðþõà ïîíÿë.ß ùà ñêîò÷åì ïîäìàòàþ.Äèâàí÷èê –ïîäíÿëè.çàíåñëè.ß ñïðàøèâàþ-íå èñïîðòèëè.???ÄÀ âñå ÎÊ! áàòÿ!!íîðìóëü!!îí ó íàñ â ñêîò÷å âñ¸ â ïë¸íêå.Èñïîðòèòü íå ðåàëüíî! –ñìîòðè!âñå íîðìóëü! ãàçåëè-ïîðîëîíîì-îáëîæåí!ÍÓ –òîãäà äàâàéòå îñìàòðèâàòü ãîâîðþ.Âñ¸-íîðìàëüíî ÷åãî ñ íèì áóäåò-ó âàñ ðåìîíò. Ïûëüíî. íå ñòîèò ïëåíêó îòðûâàòü-äèâàí çàïà÷êàåòñÿ.À äðóãîé âñòàë êàê âêîïàííûé âîçëå óãëà è ñòîèò-ÏÐèÊÐÛÂÀÅÒ!!!Ñíèìàéòå-ïë¸íêó!!îñìàòðèâàåì!!!ãîâîðþ-ß..ÎÍÈ-äàâàéòå-äåíüãè óòðîì Îñìîòðèòå-ïðè äíåâíîì ñâåòå!Ó íàñ åù¸ êó÷à ðàáîòû!Ñðûâàéòå-ïë¸íêó ðåáÿòà ìû ÷åãî çäåñü-èãðàåì!!ß õî÷ó âèäåòü òîâàð!!!Ñíÿëè ïë¸íêó..À äðóãîé-êàê ñòîèò è íå äâèãàåòñÿ.ß åìó ãîâîðþ-îòîéäèòå ìîëîäîé ÷åëîâåê äàéòå îñìîòðåòü!ÑÌÎÒÐÞ!!!!!À òàì-âèñèò êóñîê ñàíòèìåòðîâ 10.ÝÒÎ ÷òî ???ÿ ñïðàøèâàþ????ÎÉ!ÎÉ!áëèí!àÿÿé-íà ñêëàäå òàê îòãðóçèëè.ÂÛ äàâàéòå äåíüãè à çàâòðà-âàì ïîìåíÿþò.Ïàððàëåëüíî ÿ ùóïàþ äèâàí!ÿ äóìàë ÷òî îí ïóøèñòûé.íåæíûé.âîçäóøíûé.À îí äóáîâûé.êàðêàñ-ìåòàë.âûïèðàåò.òêàíü-æ¸ñòêàÿ ïðèæ¸ñòêàÿ..Âîíÿåò-õèìèåé.óæàñ.Î íåò ðåáÿòóøêè-äèâàí÷èê ïðèâåç¸òå íîðìàëüíûé ïîëó÷èòå äåíüãè!Ëèöà ïîìèíÿëèñü.ãëàçà-íàëèëèñü êðîâüþ.ÎÑÊÀËÈËÈÑÜ íåäîâîëüíûå.Íà÷àëè-íàïèðàòü-äåíüãè äàâàéòå.Çàâòðà-ïðèåäåò ñëóæáà-ïîìåíÿåò!!È âñ¸ òàê ãðóáî.íå óâàæèòåëüíî!ñëîæèëîñü-òàêîå îùóùåíèå ÷òî ìåíÿ ñåé÷àñ ïîáüþò!Ñûí óñëûøàë.Âûëåòàåò ñ êîìíàòû ,è åãî ïîíåñëî –âû ÷åãî ãëóõèå ïèäà…û ,ñóêè âû êîãî .ãðóçèòå ñóêè?Ïîøëè-âîí!À îíè òàêèå íàãëûå!»êàê âû òàê ñìååòå ñ íàìè òàê ðàçãîâàðèâàòü-êòî âû òàêèå ïî æèçíè?è çåêîâñêèå çàìàøêè.Äèâàí÷èê-âçÿëè è òèõîíüêî òàùÿò ñ óõìûëêîé è íàãëûìè ðîæàìè.ß ê îêíó.!ñìîòðþ òîëêàþò äèâàí â ãàçåëü.Îäèí äðóãîìó-ãðîìêî >>>íàäî áûëî èõ ïîðåçàòü!×òîá-íå âû¸áûâàëèñü!Ðæóò!Àãà –è ñûíî÷êà â ðàñõîä ïóñòèòü!Ëàäíî-ïîåõàëè ïîòîì ýòèõ ôðàåðîâ ïîðåæåì!!Âðóáèëè-ìóçîí!è ïî ãàçàì!!ÑÎ ñâèñòîì.ïðîêðóòàìè.ß òåïåðü ïîíèìàþ –ïî÷åìó äèâàíû ó íèõ ïîêîöàííûå!Îíè òàì áåäíåíüêèå äèâàí÷èêè-ïîáèëèñü äðóã îá äðóãà!Îáðàùåíèå ê äîñòàâùèêàì è âëàäåëüöàì ÊÈÐÀ-ÌÅÁÅËÜ.Ó âàñ ÿ áðàòü íå ÷åãî íå áóäó!âû óãîëîâíèêè!è íåãîäÿè.Íà ðàáîòó –íàäî íàáèðàòü íîðìàëüíûõ.À íå èç çîíû!áëàòíûõ-óðîê.Áûëà áû âîéíà-ÿ áû âàñ âñåõ íà òàíêå –ðàçäîâèë.Íè êàêîãî óâàæåíèÿ!!!óæàñ!!Çàìå÷ó –òîò ôàêò ãàçåëü ñ íîìåðàìè 33-ðåãèîí Âëàäèìèð.Çàêàçàëè äèâàí-óâèäåëè ãàçåëü 33.Òóøèòå-ñâåò.À òî ïîðåæóò((((Ïðè÷¸ì-íå âçÿëè äèâàí –ïîðåæóò.Äåíüãè-íå îòäàëè-ïîðåæóò!!Óæàñíî.è ïðåñêîðáíî.Âñþ íî÷ü íå ñïàë-ïåðåíåðíè÷àë.ñåðäöå-áîëåëî.