It's either you are good at academics or you're good at work, There is a good chance that I may be a loser Options

[TwistedLogic]

This may seem like common knowledge to you, right? To achieve success in the real world, you either have to be really good at studying or you have to be really good at the workplace. Obviously, its good if you're good at both but most people aren't that talented.

So the first thing. Being academically successful. It seems to be the preferred route amongst both 1st and 2nd generation Asians in the Americas. The prestige and respect that comes with high education acts as a compensation for lack of connections, language barriers, communication problems, cultural barriers, etc.
No wonder that many Asian immigrants are highly educated and are specialists. They convince their kids to take a similiar route in life. That's why Asians are so prominent in fields like medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, science, law school, all of which requires a high degree of academic success. They are secure jobs that offer excellent pay.

Now, say you're not the kind of student who can achieve high marks. Say you're more a practical kind of person and you thrive more in the workplace than you do in the classroom. This is the route that most people take in life. A lot of the successful people out there, they don't have advanced degrees. The problem with taking this route is that its a bit more up in the air.

I mean, say you spend 8 years in school studying to become a dentist, you're almost guaranteed a job when you're done. It's high paying and unless you fu-kup royally, its secure too. But if you're just a regular joe worker, achieving success is more complicated. There are more factors involved. You have to get along with your coworkers. You have to get along with your boss. You have to have the ability to make connections. It's a lot more complicated.

The thing is, people with advanced degrees have their education level as a protection. Their entire livelihood does not depend on one person such as your boss. If you are just a worker out in industry, your livelihood depends on your boss. He is your Mao, your Stalin, your Hitler. He has the power to put you out onto the street naked.

So enter my situation. I'm Asian. I don't have an advanced degree nor am I really interested in obtaining one. I'm just a worker in the industry. Very ordinary. Nothing to scream home about. By Asian standards, I'm a loser. And especially by my family standards, I'm a major loser.

So what can one do in my situation? I have no choice but to work hard (obviously!!) and to make connections. That's one thing asian parents never taught their kids. How to make connections and to maintain good relationships because they never really had to or it wasn't as important. The rest, well, its kinda luck too. Being at the right place at the right time.

I was uprooted in my youth and so I don't have that many connections, much less connections in the industry. My entire livelihood depends on my boss and how I get along with him and my coworkers. Oh and obviously I have some skills too but many other people have these skills as well.

On the plus side, I grew up with white people all my life. I fit in culturally with them. I also live in a predominantly white place. Being a visible minority, I can use this to my advantage. Every big company or organization has to promote some of their visible minorities to higher positions. It just shows good will. I need to use that to my advantage.

I need to stick with WHITE PEOPLE while at the same time, showing them that I am a minority. This way, they are more reluctant to fire me if things go wrong and makes them want to promote me more because it makes them look good to promote a member of the visible minority. This is my only chance at success I think. All at the same time, I need to be diligent and excellent at what I do.

If a short, unattractive asian guy like me living in a white man's world does not achieve a certain amount of success in career, he will get nowhere in life. That's a fact. It's like Napoleon complex except at least Napoleon was white. Napoleon was a hair's width away from being a complete failure and loser at life.

This post has been edited by TwistedLogic: Oct 8 2007, 01:07 PM

[ham_let]

So enter my situation. I'm Asian.

This is exactly where I stopped reading.

[TwistedLogic]

This is exactly where I stopped reading.

You are going the right track in life, I think. You're doing architecture, right? It's an elite industry for elite people. If you make it, you are set.

[ham_let]

You are going the right track in life, I think. You're doing architecture, right? It's an elite industry for elite people. If you make it, you are set.

Industrial Design. Hopefully I'll be making things like... kitchen utensils, tables, chairs, cellphones, motorcycles... lol.

The industry of architecture is sooooooooo saturated and half the people doing architecture aren't fit for it. I probably wouldn't be right for it either. But I bet I have more passion for architecture than half of the people that are in Waterloo studying for a BAS right now.

[TwistedLogic]

Industrial Design. Hopefully I'll be making things like... kitchen utensils, tables, chairs, cellphones, motorcycles... lol.

The industry of architecture is sooooooooo saturated and half the people doing architecture aren't fit for it. I probably wouldn't be right for it either. But I bet I have more passion for architecture than half of the people that are in Waterloo studying for a BAS right now.

Software industry is saturated as fu-k too. You could be someone making $250,000 per contract or you could be some lowly programmer barely scratching out a living. fu-k fu-k fu-k.

[Suijen]

You have a job in a sustainable market that pays reasonably well. Whine when you're unemployed.

[TwistedLogic]

You have a job in a sustainable market that pays reasonably well. Whine when you're unemployed.

If I'm ever unemployed, I may drive off a cliff.

And doing "reasonably" well doesn't cut it in Asian circles. You're a loser if you only get paid average and you're living an average standard of living. Model minority man. Model minority.

[Takashi]

This is exactly where I stopped reading.

lol you lasted longer than I did, I stopped reading at

To achieve success in the real world, you either have to be really good at studying or you have to be really good at the workplace. Obviously, its good if you're good at both but most people aren't that talented.

That's just an offense to the legal profession

[TwistedLogic]

lol you lasted longer than I did, I stopped reading at
That's just an offense to the legal profession

How is that an offense? I said most people are not talented at both. Lawyer is obviously an elite profession. Not everyone has the ability to become a lawyer. If it were easy, then there would be nothing special bout lawyers.

[ham_let]

If I'm ever unemployed, I may drive off a cliff.

And doing "reasonably" well doesn't cut it in Asian circles. You're a loser if you only get paid average and you're living an average standard of living. Model minority man. Model minority.

Lol. Design is an incredibly unstable yet fast-changing and unforgiving industry and I'm probably going to be paid $25-50K for the rest of my life.

lol you lasted longer than I did, I stopped reading at
That's just an offense to the legal profession

hahahaha

This post has been edited by ham_let: Oct 8 2007, 02:21 PM

[Takashi]

How is that an offense? I said most people are not talented at both. Lawyer is obviously an elite profession. Not everyone has the ability to become a lawyer. If it were easy, then there would be nothing special bout lawyers.

Elite? lol I don't think I'd go that far.
Not everyone has the ability to end up in various professions. I'm not sure I'd say there is anything special about lawyers.

[GentleWind]

So enter my situation. I'm Asian. I don't have an advanced degree nor am I really interested in obtaining one. I'm just a worker in the industry. Very ordinary. Nothing to scream home about. By Asian standards, I'm a loser. And especially by my family standards, I'm a major loser.

Dont let schooling interfere with your education

also you just havent met the right people to hang out with like meself

[charade]

The whining never ceases....

But if you're just a regular joe worker, achieving success is more complicated. There are more factors involved. You have to get along with your coworkers. You have to get along with your boss. You have to have the ability to make connections. It's a lot more complicated.

The thing is, people with advanced degrees have their education level as a protection. Their entire livelihood does not depend on one person such as your boss. If you are just a worker out in industry, your livelihood depends on your boss. He is your Mao, your Stalin, your Hitler. He has the power to put you out onto the street naked.

You have such a narrow view that's only limited to your own profession and surroundings. After 8 years of grueling study(+ 2-4 more for residencies totaling 10-12), it's not alway smooth sailing after graduating for most in the medical/health field. There's a $hitload of hospital bureaucracy and politics and a hierarchy exists in large medical facilities. Even starting up your own practice isn't a cakewalk initially and a lot is a stake and you're heavily in debt. Some people can recite every line in every textbook that exists and still not thrive because a)they can't deal with the politics/social pressures on top of the stress that comes with the job b) they're not business savvy. If you don't have connections, then it's difficult to land yourself a decent position or move to a higher one based on your abilities alone unless you've really established yourself in the field. On top of that, even the top healthcare practioners have to deal with trivial malpractice lawsuits filed against them by some idiotic patients and some idiotic lawyer who's willing to take up their cases. Your license is always on the line. In addition to working your way around dealing with co-workers, you're dealing with the most psychotic people who come in as patients and it can me mentally tiring.

You're not always set with an advanced degree and it's ridiculous that you're even comparing the difficulties of your job and stating that's it's a lot more substantial than someone in a completely different field.

[Suijen]

not sure I'd say there is anything special about lawyers.

You get to make people unhappy.

[Takashi]

You get to make people unhappy.

So do politicians

[TwistedLogic]

Elite? lol I don't think I'd go that far.
Not everyone has the ability to end up in various professions. I'm not sure I'd say there is anything special about lawyers.

in your world, everything is easy. no sweat.

The whining never ceases....
You have such a narrow view that's only limited to your own profession and surroundings. After 8 years of grueling study(+ 2-4 more for residencies totaling 10-12), it's not alway smooth sailing after graduating for most in the medical/health field. There's a $hitload of hospital bureaucracy and politics and a hierarchy exists in large medical facilities. Even starting up your own practice isn't a cakewalk initially and a lot is a stake and you're heavily in debt. Some people can recite every line in every textbook that exists and still not thrive because a)they can't deal with the politics/social pressures on top of the stress that comes with the job b) they're not business savvy. If you don't have connections, then it's difficult to land yourself a decent position or move to a higher one based on your abilities alone unless you've really established yourself in the field. On top of that, even the top healthcare practioners have to deal with trivial malpractice lawsuits filed against them by some idiotic patients and some idiotic lawyer who's willing to take up their cases. Your license is always on the line. In addition to working your way around dealing with co-workers, you're dealing with the most psychotic people who come in as patients and it can me mentally tiring.

You're not always set with an advanced degree and it's ridiculous that you're even comparing the difficulties of your job and stating that's it's a lot more substantial than someone in a completely different field.

Yes, I think I'm pretty ignorant. But I never said people with advanced degrees have a cakewalk. My father is one of these people and the road he's travelled has been far from smooth. Hmm, I guess eventually when these people do attain stability, they deserve all things they've worked for. Hell if I had the interest/inclination, I'd probably go for it myself.

I never said my field is more substantial. If anything, people working in the health care industry are far more important than people like me. More meaningful as well as you're helping people even though a good number of them take advantage of the system.

I'm sure its frustrating dealing with patients, especially ones who don't have the self-discipline to learn to take care of themselves. However, I'm sure you will be in cases once in a while where someone is in dire need of help and it will be quite a thrill to know that you had some impact in improving their life. That's what it's all bout, isn't it?

This post has been edited by TwistedLogic: Oct 8 2007, 04:35 PM

[Subotai]

I could offer you a friendly advice on how to look up and be positively optimistic about life's problems. But I think this is easier

[mndeg]

noob

[Takashi]

in your world, everything is easy. no sweat.

Because I'm at the position I want to be right now, I know how I got here and I know how I intend to progress, why should I worry about anything?

If you're not good at both chances are you won't advance very far in any profession unless it's blue collar.

This post has been edited by Takashi: Oct 10 2007, 12:43 AM

[felltohell]

why do you fu-kn whine a lot?????????????

develop a personality dude some confidence for you @$$' sake!!!!

good thing you have a job.. it's never about you being ASIAN ...
if you want it to happen you've got to make it happen...

This post has been edited by felltohell: Oct 10 2007, 02:15 AM