Hmong Traitors or Hmong Pioneers? Options

[xaithoj]

contrary to popular belief, the hmong lao did not 100% support gen. vang pao. in fact, a significant portion supported hanoi and the ldpr. here is a current list of all hmong people serving in significant capacities in the ldpr. so what do you think? are they traitors or pioneers?

Madame Pany Yathortou, Member of Politburo of the Lao People’s
Revolutionary Party Central Committee (among the 11 most powerful
persons in Laos) and Vice President of the Lao National Assembly.

Six Ministers such as:
1. Chaleun Yapaoheu, Lao People’s Revolutionary Party Central
Committee and Minister of Justice;
2. Saysengly, Minister to the Prime Minister’s Office;
3. Vongphet Saykeuyachongtoua, Lao People’s Revolutionary Party
Central Committee and President of the Federation of Lao Trade Union;
4. Tong Yeu Thor, Member of the Lao People’s Revolutionary Party
Central Committee and Vice President of Lao Front for National
Construction;
5. Laoly, Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Welfare; and
6. Ly Tou, Vice Minister of Education.

Several provincial Governors and among them Sombath Yialyher, Party
Secretary of Vientiane Capital.

Two Generals including one Police General and dozens of Director
General including Yaseng, Chief of Cabinet of the Ministry of Foreign
Affairs of Lao PDR.

***found even newer election results. so as of 2011 - Madame Pany Yathortou now holds the 5th most powerful position in laos (pretty sure she's the most powerful women politician) and M. General Asang Laoly now holds the 6th most powerful position (yes, there are other hmong generals besides vang pao).

This post has been edited by xaithoj: Sep 11 2011, 04:12 PM

[souphounavong]

It's a sad thing that many of those Hmong decided to change their names into Laotian like. Why can't they use their true names and not face discrimination nor prejudice?

The fact that they changed their names just to be accepted makes them nothing but puppets and would never be on the same level as any Lao Loun.

These guys basically are telling us that they changed their names because deep inside their heart they accepted that : Lao Loun > Lao Soung

[lilasiankid]

The world ain't black and white..They'll be pioneers once they achieve prosperity for their own kind rather than the state.

This post has been edited by lilasiankid: Sep 11 2011, 06:34 PM

[JiemBo]

I see some Hmong still live in the past and old belief. How pathetic. Nothing wrong with changing anyone last name or name to be unique.

The Hmong in Laos are treated like every one else who are a Lao citizen of Laos. Only Hmong in the U.S find it very prejudice and discriminated just because they are minority and are Hmong who has a bad history in the past in Laos. I believe it was Vang Pao and his followers fault for trying to stir up social problems among the Hmong and Lao people. Also I am against Vang Pao and his thugs periods.

[souphounavong]

I see some Hmong still live in the past and old belief. How pathetic. Nothing wrong with changing anyone last name or name to be unique.

The Hmong in Laos are treated like every one else who are a Lao citizen of Laos. Only Hmong in the U.S find it very prejudice and discriminated just because they are minority and are Hmong who has a bad history in the past in Laos. I believe it was Vang Pao and his followers fault for trying to stir up social problems among the Hmong and Lao people. Also I am against Vang Pao and his thugs periods.

^ you don't know anything about Hmong surnames and the significance of it. You think a name/surname is simply a name/surname. Maybe in your culture or whatever it doesn't have any meanings but you can't just assume the same

for another ethnicity or race.

Furthermore, it is a political motive for these name changes. That can only imply enviousness or subjugation.

[JiemBo]

^ you don't know anything about Hmong surnames and the significance of it. You think a name/surname is simply a name/surname. Maybe in your culture or whatever it doesn't have any meanings but you can't just assume the same

for another ethnicity or race.

Furthermore, it is a political motive for these name changes. That can only imply enviousness or subjugation.

Just because they are Hmong doesn't mean they have to follow the Hmong traditional ways. We called this method assimilation into a national society. And its not all about politic at all either.

[txoomsuab2]

clan names r very important aspect of Hmong tradition but I'm guessing changing the name is all part of assimilating, no harm done as long as they r proud to be hmong

[JiemBo]

clan names r very important aspect of Hmong tradition but I'm guessing changing the name is all part of assimilating, no harm done as long as they r proud to be hmong

I agree! At least you understood the modern concept of this assimilation. Their is nothing wrong with being Hmong in Laos since I know Lao in Laos accept them as apart of the greater Lao society. Also look at our neighbors. They are far ahead of Laos on Social ethnic nationalism and we still fighting over who or what ethnic is better. I also think it was Vang Pao for trying to separate the Hmong apart from those in Laos and the Lao people. Which is why we aren't really untied as one like the rest of our neighbors.

[txoomsuab2]

I agree! At least you understood the modern concept of this assimilation. Their is nothing wrong with being Hmong in Laos since I know Lao in Laos accept them as apart of the greater Lao society. Also look at our neighbors. They are far ahead of Laos on Social ethnic nationalism and we still fighting over who or what ethnic is better. I also think it was Vang Pao for trying to separate the Hmong apart from those in Laos and the Lao people. Which is why we aren't really untied as one like the rest of our neighbors.

please don't bring vang pao into this

[souphounavong]

Just because they are Hmong doesn't mean they have to follow the Hmong traditional ways. We called this method assimilation into a national society. And its not all about politic at all either.

Following tradition is always part of how Hmong people define themselves from other ethnic groups. This is a trend all the way from China. The Hmong in America do not change their surnames. This is because they are Hmong Americans. Those Hmong in Laos that changed their surnames no longer follow the tradition and like you said, and are trying to assimilate themselves into the greater group, Lao and Lao alone. Threfore, they see themselves fully as Lao. How is this problematic? Well, there is still segregation and perhaps that is why they changed their surnames and names to conform to Lao ways. What freedom is that?

Just look at those Teochew Chinese that assimilated into Thai culture. They are no longer Chinese but Thai. You are proud of total assimilation huh? Does that also mean that you fully support the idea of assimilation and go against ethnic minorities? What if your people were not the majority, but part of a minority group? How would you feel? Like the Blacks of America during those days of slavery?

[JiemBo]

Following tradition is always part of how Hmong people define themselves from other ethnic groups. This is a trend all the way from China. The Hmong in America do not change their surnames. This is because they are Hmong Americans. Those Hmong in Laos that changed their surnames no longer follow the tradition and like you said, and are trying to assimilate themselves into the greater group, Lao and Lao alone. Threfore, they see themselves fully as Lao. How is this problematic? Well, there is still segregation and perhaps that is why they changed their surnames and names to conform to Lao ways. What freedom is that?

Just look at those Teochew Chinese that assimilated into Thai culture. They are no longer Chinese but Thai. You are proud of total assimilation huh? Does that also mean that you fully support the idea of assimilation and go against ethnic minorities? What if your people were not the majority, but part of a minority group? How would you feel? Like the Blacks of America during those days of slavery?

I think you are thinking a little too deep. The Hmong can still keep their last name in a traditional ways in Laos if they wanted too. But this is Laos and these Hmong-Lao are just in the process of full major assimilation among the greater Lao people to unite. Which I believe we are lacking that because their are some like the Hmong who seem to divide themselves among the majority rather then joining. This is the time for Laos to gain its nationalism not separation. Also if the Hmong don't like the idea they can move back to China and let the Chinese deal with Hmong migrate there.

[LiamKincade]

Mung.

This post has been edited by LiamKincade: Sep 11 2011, 08:41 PM

[souphounavong]

I think you are thinking a little too deep. The Hmong can still keep their last name in a traditional ways in Laos if they wanted too. But this is Laos and these Hmong-Lao are just in the process of full major assimilation among the greater Lao people to unite. Which I believe we are lacking that because their are some like the Hmong who seem to divide themselves among the majority rather then joining. This is the time for Laos to gain its nationalism not separation. Also if the Hmong don't like the idea they can move back to China and let the Chinese deal with Hmong migrate there.

You don't understand. It is not all about trying to separate from the majority. My opinion is that those Hmong in Laos should be able to freely express their pride rather than having to change their names and surnames just to be accepted into Lao society.

If you were living in China would you change your surname to a Chinese surname just so that you feel like you belong and hide yourself among the people? You rather lose your heritage and assimilate just to be accepted? That's a disgrace.

Our ancestors didn't fight and die just to preserve our self identity and now we're suppose to simply give it up just like that just to be accepted while in other countries, it is not even necessary? You don't see no Hmong Henderson or Johnson in America do you? No. -__-

This post has been edited by souphounavong: Sep 11 2011, 08:44 PM

[JiemBo]

You don't understand. It is not all about trying to separate from the majority. My opinion is that those Hmong in Laos should be able to freely express their pride rather than having to change their names and surnames just to be accepted into Lao society.

If you were living in China would you change your surname to a Chinese surname just so that you feel like you belong and hide yourself among the people? You rather lose your heritage and assimilate just to be accepted? That's a disgrace.

Our ancestors didn't fight and die just to preserve our self identity and now we're suppose to simply give it up just like that just to be accepted while in other countries, it is not even necessary? You don't see no Hmong Henderson or Johnson in America do you? No. -__-

I said their is nothing wrong with keeping the original Hmong last name. I understand quite well. Maybe you should re-read what I said earlier?

And what was the point of this thread the first place anyways? Don't tell me this is another Hmong propaganda that the Hmong can never let go of the grudge. It's time to move on and get over it. And since Vang Pao is dead the war is over unless you reviving his legacy once again just to make things worst then they already are.

[JiemBo]

please don't bring vang pao into this

Maybe I should of said Vang Pao cult followers? I'm sure they are floating around spreading rumors among the Hmong community like always.

[souphounavong]

I said their is nothing wrong with keeping the original Hmong last name. I understand quite well. Maybe you should re-read what I said earlier?

And what was the point of this thread the first place anyways? Don't tell me this is another Hmong propaganda that the Hmong can never let go of the grudge. It's time to move on and get over it. And since Vang Pao is dead the war is over unless you reviving his legacy once again just to make things worst then they already are.

You don't seem to understand my point at all. The point is... why those Hmong changed their names and surnames to Laotian like names when they could be proud Lao-Hmong and still have their authentic names?

What is so hard about this question?

They changed their surnames and names to conform to Lao names because they want to be accepted into Lao society. Why should they need to do this? This is not rocket science come on now.

[txoomsuab2]

Maybe I should of said Vang Pao cult followers? I'm sure they are floating around spreading rumors among the Hmong community like always.

u can be quiet now

[xaithoj]

they really didn't 'change' their name, just conjoined it and were creative with it. it goes back farther than communist days to french colonial days. for example, some hmong leaders during french occupation:

Lo Bliayao (Lo clan, adult name - blia yao)
Faydang Lobliayao (Lo clan, adult name Fay Dang; keeps the full name of his father to honor him: Lobliayao)
Touby Lyfoung (Ly/Li/Lee clan, adult name Tou By; keeps the foung to honor his dad Ly Xia Foung)

now lets look at some of these current guys:

Madame Pany Yathortou (Yang clan, adult name Pa Ny; keeps Yathortou to honor her father Ya Thor Tou)
Chaleun Yapaoheu (Yang clan, adult name Cha Leun; keeps Yapaoheu to hononr his father Ya Pao Heu)
Vongphet Saykeuyachongtoua (Yang clan, adult name Say Keu; keeps Yachongtou to honor his father Ya Chong Tou; adopts lao name Vongphet)
Tong Yeu Thor (Thao clan, adult name Tong Yeu; hmong american style)

hopefully that clears things up a bit.

[souphounavong]

they really didn't 'change' their name, just conjoined it and were creative with it. it goes back farther than communist days to french colonial days. for example, some hmong leaders during french occupation:

Lo Bliayao (Lo clan, adult name - blia yao)
Faydang Lobliayao (Lo clan, adult name Fay Dang; keeps the full name of his father to honor him: Lobliayao)
Touby Lyfoung (Ly/Li/Lee clan, adult name Tou By; keeps the foung to honor his dad Ly Xia Foung)

now lets look at some of these current guys:

Madame Pany Yathortou (Yang clan, adult name Pa Ny; keeps Yathortou to honor her father Ya Thor Tou)
Chaleun Yapaoheu (Yang clan, adult name Cha Leun; keeps Yapaoheu to hononr his father Ya Pao Heu)
Vongphet Saykeuyachongtoua (Yang clan, adult name Say Keu; keeps Yachongtou to honor his father Ya Chong Tou; adopts lao name Vongphet)
Tong Yeu Thor (Thao clan, adult name Tong Yeu; hmong american style)

hopefully that clears things up a bit.

Lo Blia Yao, Touby Lyfoung, and Lo Fang Dang are all authentic Hmong names. NO french influence at all. Just a re-order of lastname and first name.

It is quite clear that those other Hmong conjoined Lao names as oppose to the aforementioned French era Hmong leaders. Like come on now, does Saykeuyachongtoua sound Hmong to you? It's just like those Chinese Thai. Their Chinese surnames are still present in their names just that they conjoined Thai names to conform to Thai.

This post has been edited by souphounavong: Sep 11 2011, 09:16 PM

[JiemBo]

You don't seem to understand my point at all. The point is... why those Hmong changed their names and surnames to Laotian like names when they could be proud Lao-Hmong and still have their authentic names?

What is so hard about this question?

They changed their surnames and names to conform to Lao names because they want to be accepted into Lao society. Why should they need to do this? This is not rocket science come on now.

Well I agree that they don't have to change their surname just to be accepted. But this is only a few Hmong in Laos does this and I'm sure neighboring country has a similar case about this too. It's not really about ethnic anymore in Laos. It's about gaining nationalism and unity for all of Laos as one natural citizen.