New Theory on Angkor, Who were the last Varman kings? Options

[Kdaw_Tmaw]

first of all what is a "thai" dna sequence i still have yet to see any research of that on the internet. i dont feel like reading your boring paper so you are a "thai" tell me what you alls dna is.

still i dont find the correspondence to calling the leaders of funan a tai speaking people. again its just you making a big leap using whatever you are calling fact and applying it to supposed "tai" speakers.somehow these tai speakers magically led a mon khmer speaking group of people without communicating a thing i guess? or they stooped down to their level and learned their language? or forced 500,000 people to speak tai?then those people living in funan magically forgot how to speak tai i guess when the majority of tai were swooped up back to china to fight the chinese? cool story bro

you should get on that petition to remove any khmer references to the phimai historical park because they found tai bones there so its now a tai historical park.im suprised why the racist agendist siam leaders havent done this already its been 6 years what are they waiting for?

You know he also uses logic like Suryavarman II was born in southern Thailand so he was a Siamese. I can also use his logic and say that Julius Caesar was an Italian because he was born in Italy. Hahaha

[Leeporter]

You know he also uses logic like Suryavarman II was born in southern Thailand so he was a Siamese. I can also use his logic and say that Julius Caesar was an Italian because he was born in Italy. Hahaha

He was from Nakorn Sridhammmarat and you don't want me to call him Siamese, you want me to call him "Khmer"????

[chadwarden]

OK, I havn't read her paper before. This is her abstract.


The Iron Age sites of the Mun River Valley are among the most important and
significant sites in Southeast Asia for documenting the rise of the state. Three sites
around the upper Mun River Valley have been excavated which are Noen U-Loke,
Ban Lum Khao and Prasat Phimai. The prehistoric cemetery at Noen U-Loke was
dated in the vicinity of Iron Age about 2,400-1,500 years before present. The cultural
sequence at Noen U-Loke is one of the longest continuous records. Knowledge of the
prehistory was greatly increased by much residential and industrial evidence. The
present study aims to generate additional information about the relationship between
the prehistoric human populations in this area. An important tool for this investigation
was DNA analysis. Previous studies have shown that DNA can survive in ancient
remains. The twenty-six molar teeth of good quality were collected from twenty-six
adult skeletons, one each, from Noen U-Loke archaeological site. The method
originally used for ancient DNA extraction was very similar to a silica/guanidine
thiocyanate method that described in Boom et al, 1990 and modified by Höss and
Pääbo. The additional used of phosphate buffer was designed for DNA extraction
from hydroxyapatite crystal according to Persson, 1992 and Götherström and Lidén,
1996. These modified protocols gave us a good yield of DNA and high succeed rate
of DNA recovery (22 out of 26 = 80%). The ancient DNA authenticity was seriously
checked, all mitochondrial DNA sequences from each of samples in this study was
then trusted to be derived from the excavated remains. The modern samples from
several ethnic groups in Thailand and from several part of China were included to the
analyses. The investigations indicated that the Noen U-Loke area probably used by a
relative population without or very few migrations from outside population through
900 years (2,400-1,500 BP) and suggested that the ancestor of the ancient population
from Noen U-Loke probably moved from eastern China more than 2,400 before.

What I understand is that gene of people from several parts of China found in bones of people in NE 2,500 years ago.

We know that Tai-speaking people were there in south of China, and it it was not those Tai-speaking people then it should be Chinese themselves who jumped across the head of Tai and came to mix with people in NE Thailand 2,500 years ago!

That's what I interpreted her theory.

ok so first off somehow khmer chose to build over tai bones in prasat phimai.they magically picked that area because they knew it had tai bones over it? i mean how fishy does that sound really to find "tai" bones on a khmer temple site. and still why havent the siam government changed phimai historical park and removed and khmer mentionings. obviosuly the "tai" have been there longer.


further reasearching this location i found some more articles about the finds. btw excavation began here in 1997
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18615504

The 360 base-pair fragment in HVS-1 of the mitochondrial genome were determined from ancient human remains excavated at Noen U-loke and Ban Lum-Khao, two Bronze and Iron Age archaeological sites in Northeastern Thailand, radio-carbon dated to circa 3,500-1,500 years BP and 3,200-2,400 years BP, respectively. These two neighboring populations were parts of early agricultural communities prevailing in northeastern Thailand from the fourth millennium BP onwards. The nucleotide sequences of these ancient samples were compared with the sequences of modern samples from various ethnic populations of East and Southeast Asia, encompassing four major linguistic affiliations (Altaic, Sino-Tibetan, Tai-Kadai, and Austroasiatic), to investigate the genetic relationships and history among them. The two ancient samples were most closely related to each other, and next most closely related to the Chao-Bon, an Austroasiatic-speaking group living near the archaeological sites, suggesting that the genetic continuum may have persisted since prehistoric times in situ among the native, perhaps Austroasiatic-speaking population. Tai-Kadai groups formed close affinities among themselves, with a tendency to be more closely related to other Southeast Asian populations than to populations from further north. The Tai-Kadai groups were relatively distant from all groups that have presumably been in Southeast Asia for longer-that is, the two ancient groups and the Austroasiatic-speaking groups, with the exception of the Khmer group. This finding is compatible with the known history of the Thais: their late arrival in Southeast Asia from southern China after the 10th-11th century AD, followed by a period of subjugation under the Khmers.

so there you go lee porter check and mated.


This post has been edited by chadwarden: Feb 15 2012, 03:30 AM

[Kdaw_Tmaw]

He was from Nakorn Sridhammmarat and you don't want me to call him Siamese, you want me to call him "Khmer"????

Just call him the greatest Kambuja/Kampuchea or just Khmer King would be suffice.

[chadwarden]

He was from Nakorn Sridhammmarat and you don't want me to call him Siamese, you want me to call him "Khmer"????

why dont we just slap the label "Thai" onto the whole area of southeast asia since you guys were here way before and already conquered but decided to go back to china for a bit then come back. The Make Belief SouthEast Asian Monarchy Republic of Thai pure raced individuals.

This post has been edited by chadwarden: Feb 15 2012, 03:38 AM

[chadwarden]

Just call him the greatest Kambuja/Kampuchea or just Khmer King would be suffice.

lol i just burned him and this whole thread amazing what a little bit more research besides being under the "thai" nationalist umbrella can do

further reasearching this location i found some more articles about the finds. btw excavation began here in 1997
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18615504

The 360 base-pair fragment in HVS-1 of the mitochondrial genome were determined from ancient human remains excavated at Noen U-loke and Ban Lum-Khao, two Bronze and Iron Age archaeological sites in Northeastern Thailand, radio-carbon dated to circa 3,500-1,500 years BP and 3,200-2,400 years BP, respectively. These two neighboring populations were parts of early agricultural communities prevailing in northeastern Thailand from the fourth millennium BP onwards. The nucleotide sequences of these ancient samples were compared with the sequences of modern samples from various ethnic populations of East and Southeast Asia, encompassing four major linguistic affiliations (Altaic, Sino-Tibetan, Tai-Kadai, and Austroasiatic), to investigate the genetic relationships and history among them. The two ancient samples were most closely related to each other, and next most closely related to the Chao-Bon, an Austroasiatic-speaking group living near the archaeological sites, suggesting that the genetic continuum may have persisted since prehistoric times in situ among the native, perhaps Austroasiatic-speaking population. Tai-Kadai groups formed close affinities among themselves, with a tendency to be more closely related to other Southeast Asian populations than to populations from further north. The Tai-Kadai groups were relatively distant from all groups that have presumably been in Southeast Asia for longer-that is, the two ancient groups and the Austroasiatic-speaking groups, with the exception of the Khmer group. This finding is compatible with the known history of the Thais: their late arrival in Southeast Asia from southern China after the 10th-11th century AD, followed by a period of subjugation under the Khmers.

so there you go lee porter check and mated.

[Kdaw_Tmaw]

He's going to come back at you with "the whole world is brainwashed by the french" and "there is no such thing as a Khmer Empire or let alone an Empire for that matter". The only Empire that exists to him is the Inland Empire in California.

[Leeporter]

ok so first off somehow khmer chose to build over tai bones in prasat phimai.they magically picked that area because they knew it had tai bones over it? i mean how fishy does that sound really to find "tai" bones on a khmer temple site. and still why havent the siam government changed phimai historical park and removed and khmer mentionings. obviosuly the "tai" have been there longer.


further reasearching this location i found some more articles about the finds. btw excavation began here in 1997
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18615504

The 360 base-pair fragment in HVS-1 of the mitochondrial genome were determined from ancient human remains excavated at Noen U-loke and Ban Lum-Khao, two Bronze and Iron Age archaeological sites in Northeastern Thailand, radio-carbon dated to circa 3,500-1,500 years BP and 3,200-2,400 years BP, respectively. These two neighboring populations were parts of early agricultural communities prevailing in northeastern Thailand from the fourth millennium BP onwards. The nucleotide sequences of these ancient samples were compared with the sequences of modern samples from various ethnic populations of East and Southeast Asia, encompassing four major linguistic affiliations (Altaic, Sino-Tibetan, Tai-Kadai, and Austroasiatic), to investigate the genetic relationships and history among them. The two ancient samples were most closely related to each other, and next most closely related to the Chao-Bon, an Austroasiatic-speaking group living near the archaeological sites, suggesting that the genetic continuum may have persisted since prehistoric times in situ among the native, perhaps Austroasiatic-speaking population. Tai-Kadai groups formed close affinities among themselves, with a tendency to be more closely related to other Southeast Asian populations than to populations from further north. The Tai-Kadai groups were relatively distant from all groups that have presumably been in Southeast Asia for longer-that is, the two ancient groups and the Austroasiatic-speaking groups, with the exception of the Khmer group. This finding is compatible with the known history of the Thais: their late arrival in Southeast Asia from southern China after the 10th-11th century AD, followed by a period of subjugation under the Khmers.

so there you go lee porter check and mated.

ha ha ha ... idiot!

both papers are from the same group of researchers from Mahidol University.

http://www.li.mahidol.ac.th/thesis/2548/cd379/4437347.pdf

This is what they concluded.

The investigations indicated that the Noen U-Loke area probably used by a
relative population without or very few migrations from outside population through
900 years (2,400-1,500 BP) and suggested that the ancestor of the ancient population
from Noen U-Loke probably moved from eastern China more than 2,400 before

I think it should read "This finding is "not" compatible with the known history of the Thais:"

[Leeporter]

Just call him the greatest Kambuja/Kampuchea or just Khmer King would be suffice.

I knew it's wrong, that's why I came here to make it right.

[LoveIsAllAround]

why dont we just slap the label "Thai" onto the whole area of southeast asia since you guys were here way before and already conquered but decided to go back to china for a bit then come back. The Make Belief SouthEast Asian Monarchy Republic of Thai pure raced individuals.

Khmer already did. Claim everything as Khmer. Cham is Khmer too. 555+ WTF???

[LoveIsAllAround]

Khmer is a race because to say you are Khmer mean your are an Austroasiatic genetic! If you hold Austronesia you can't be Khmer but if you love our Khmer culture and you feel you are Khmer then anything ells then you can call you self Khmer and no body will ham you! But I believe a Khmer person is not close minded like you do! ^^

That's called Nationality. Not a race.

[chadwarden]

ha ha ha ... idiot!

both papers are from the same group of researchers from Mahidol University.

http://www.li.mahidol.ac.th/thesis/2548/cd379/4437347.pdf

This is what they concluded.

The investigations indicated that the Noen U-Loke area probably used by a
relative population without or very few migrations from outside population through
900 years (2,400-1,500 BP) and suggested that the ancestor of the ancient population
from Noen U-Loke probably moved from eastern China more than 2,400 before

I think it should read "This finding is "not" compatible with the known history of the Thais:"

Wow so somebody is obviously lying huh? hm lets guess who that could be ;)no way it could be the overnationalist thais could it? the abstract that i just showed you now was done in 2008 while the "article:" u keep showing me was done in 2006. so obviously someone with a brain (means non siam) actually went and did more research on the subject.this abstract was published in the american journal of anthropology American Journal of Physical Anthropology
Volume 137, Issue 4, pages 425–440, December 2008 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002....20884/abstract why didnt the one you keep showing me go argue that this is false information?

why didnt the thai version mention anything that this abstract wrote about? oh i know why because it keeps true factual things from the public and only publishes garbage that bends in favor of siam. what would it have hurt to mention the same things along with this abstract?if it did then fine i could have agreed with your stance partially but it didnt so it shows its racist and bias by not showing all facts pertaining to the research
thats the difference between "siam" discerning the meaning of the reasearch and how regular you know real scientists do.

This post has been edited by chadwarden: Feb 15 2012, 03:56 AM

[Leeporter]

OK, this is a more longer one.

http://www.learners.in.th/blogs/posts/171438

It said in the conclusion (yellow hi-lighted) that:

"This could lead to the theory that the local of SEA (except for Khmer who were brought from somewhere else in 5th century :Leeporter) could moved from China at least 3,500 years ago."

[LoveIsAllAround]

no not correct at all
The Khmers belonging to the Mon-Khmer ethnic group are the oldest inhabitants of the Indochinese peninsula. The origins of their civilization can be dated from between one million and 680.000 years ago , having evolved since from generation to generation to form an elaborate specific cultural mode .

so, your race is under an ethnic?

sad how no "thai" members can show how why the "thai" of thailand look completely different than the dai and zhuang where they supposedly came from. i guess that never comes up.

Siamese is Austro-Tai. Austro part is Syamese. Syamese is closer to Mon race or might be Mon themselves.

This post has been edited by LoveIsAllAround: Feb 15 2012, 03:56 AM

[Leeporter]

Wow so somebody is obviously lying huh? hm lets guess who that could be ;)no way it could be the overnationalist thais could it? the abstract that i just showed you now was done in 2008 while the "article:" u keep showing me was done in 2006. so obviously someone with a brain (means non siam) actually went and did more research on the subject.this abstract was published in the american journal of anthropology American Journal of Physical Anthropology
Volume 137, Issue 4, pages 425–440, December 2008 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002....20884/abstract why didnt the one you keep showing me go argue that this is false information?



thats the difference between "siam" discerning the meaning of the reasearch and how regular you know real scientists do.

Chad, they are the same group of researchers.
It was you who misunderstood them or maybe the word "not" was missing in the abstract you show.

[chadwarden]

Chad, they are the same group of researchers.
It was you who misunderstood them or maybe the word "not" was missing in the abstract you show.

so you find this in no way odd that the thai versions mention nothing of what the 2008 abstract tell? obviously something is wrong here i mean if you cant see its part of thais agenda to of course push their version then you are a troll or just being stupid. if the 2008 published worldwide abstract is wrong why arent thai historians and anthropologists fighting what they said and boycotting it?

[LoveIsAllAround]

You know he also uses logic like Suryavarman II was born in southern Thailand so he was a Siamese. I can also use his logic and say that Julius Caesar was an Italian because he was born in Italy. Hahaha

It was Suryavarman I who came from Southern Thailand. Southern Thailand was inhabited by ancient Mon, No khmers there. So he was not Khmer king, but Siamese king who had Mon blood. Khmer were those in Mekong Delta. Khmer homeland is Khmer krom in Vietnam not Southern Thailand.

[chadwarden]

so, your race is under an ethnic?


what the heck are you talking about all races are grouped into ethnic groups? your a troll too or what? havent you heard of germanic peoples scandinavian ehtnic group slavic ethnic group man talk about trolling jeez.

Siamese is Austro-Tai. Austro part is Syamese. Syamese is closer to Mon race or might be Mon themselves.

ok so why then did the gov change the name from siam to a madeup "thai". wouldnt it be better to be called siam so you guys could fulfill your dream of being considered first southeast asians by being grouped with mon and other austroasiatics? man thailand is a weird place

[LoveIsAllAround]

what the heck are you talking about all races are grouped into ethnic groups? your a troll too or what? havent you heard of germanic peoples scandinavian ehtnic group slavic ethnic group man talk about trolling jeez.

So Viet is Khmer race too. ai kwai! You must be Lao member, create a new account!

Tell me again why you say Khmer is a race.

ok so why then did the gov change the name from siam to a madeup "thai". wouldnt it be better to be called siam so you guys could fulfill your dream of being considered first southeast asians by being grouped with mon and other austroasiatics? man thailand is a weird place

Dumbass, those are all political terms. We have Thai and Tai for you to differentiate them. But you are still stupid to think Thai is ethnic term? LOL But Khmer is the most idiot that they use Khmer in the sense of nationality but you idiot still think Khmer is ethnic or even a race!!! you are the real biased here, not me.

[chadwarden]

So Viet is Khmer race too. ai kwai! You must be Lao member, create a new account!

Tell me again why you say Khmer is a race.


Dumbass, those are all political terms. We have Thai and Tai for you to differentiate them. But you are still stupid to think Thai is ethnic term? LOL But Khmer is the most idiot that they use Khmer in the sense of nationality but you idiot still think Khmer is ethnic or even a race!!! you are the real biased here, not me.

it has been documented the khmer are a race that traveled down with the mon khmer austoasiatic peoples.like the map i showed you it shows where exactly these people stopped off at in times. nobody with half a brain considers viet to be a khmer race yea it was theorized that they spoke a mon khmer language but that is being refuted currently and since about 15 to 20 years ago.they have their own branch called vietic languages and due to over 1000 years of chinese rule they have lost whatever if any ausroasiatic parts of their language.nowhere does it say viet people traveled downward along with other mon khmer speakers.


so basically like ive been saying thailand is a country full of mutt mon khmer and tai that practice a tai culture and created a new politcal term called Thai to cover this fact up and group everyone into some kind of phony supposed Tai culture.