Secret history of the Mongols, Under Eternal Blue Heaven Options

[Hawaii]

This is very interesting. I read it in Mongolian language. Also i tried to read Igor de Rachewiltz's translation, it might be interesting

In mongolian language it has lots of beautiful poems and lyrics

НЭГДYГЭЭР БYЛЭГ
ТЭМЇЖИНИЙ УГ ГАРАЛ БА БАГА НАСНЫ ЇЕ
1. Чингис хааны язгуур, дээр тэнгэрээс заяат тєрсєн Бєртэ-чино, гэргий Гуа-Маралын хамт тэнгис далайг гэтэлж ирээд Онон мєрний эх Бурхан халдун ууланд нутаглаж Батцагаан гэдэг нэгэн хєвїїнийг тєрїїлжээ.

1-1
It says ancestors of Chinggis Khaan, Burte chino (Wolf), his wife Gua Maral ( Deer) came across the see/ocean and settled in Onon river source Burkhan Haldun Mountain, gave birth to son Battsagaan.

There was a TV series in the 80s made together by Japan, China, Hong Kong and Italy about Marco Polo. It would be cool, if there is an international production of a movie or TV drama about Genghis Khan. He is a fascinating figure like Alexander the Great.

[Anda]

There was a TV series in the 80s made together by Japan, China, Hong Kong and Italy about Marco Polo.  It would be cool, if there is an international production of a movie or TV drama about Genghis Khan.  He is a fascinating figure like Alexander the Great. 

This adaptation of what is recognized today as the oldest Mongolian text (written two decades after Chingis Khan`s death) tells the Mongols` own version of the origin of their nation, the life of Chingis Khan, and the creation of an empire that stretched across Eurasia in the 13th century. Adapted from Francis Woodman Cleaves` erudite translation, it is presented here as a narrative poem in colloquial English. An overview of medieval Asia, maps, lineage charts, a glossary of proper names, and a bibliography are included. This expanded edition includes a 17th-century account of Chingis Khan`s death and a new essay by the author.

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[Bitterlemon]

Huns (Xiong Nu) are proto-Turks, not Mongols.  During the days of the Huns, Mongol ancesters still dwelled in Siberia not Mongolia. 

I beginning to think Mongolian secret history is "secret" because everyone knows it's bull$hit.

Go educate yourself boy ! The Hunnus are the ancestors of the Mongolians... Everyone knows it! Go ask ur momma!

[Kultigin]

Go educate yourself boy  ! The Hunnus are the ancestors of the Mongolians... Everyone knows it! Go ask ur momma!

You cant be so sure of it, if yes give me their kings names + the meanings of it and show me one phrase of their language.

the famoust hun: Atilla khan.

tribes who came with the huns

Avars, Pechenegs, Volga-bulgars, Alans, Cumans and also some goths but mainly they where fleed into roman empire because of the arrival of the Huns
but i cant see any mongol tribes in it?

This post has been edited by Kultigin: Feb 24 2006, 09:18 AM

[Anda]

You cant be so sure of it, if yes give me their kings names + the meanings of it and show me one phrase of their language.

the famoust hun: Atilla khan.

tribes who came with the huns

Avars, Pechenegs, Volga-bulgars, Alans, Cumans and also some goths but mainly they where fleed into roman empire because of the arrival of the Huns 
but i cant see any mongol tribes in it?

Huns were indeed originally from the territory of Mongolia just like Turks. Although, present day Turks do not resemble with Blue Turks , still they thinks that they came from Blue Turks. Blue Turks were Mongoloid, now todays Turks are Caucasian.
Mongols are certainly came from those kingdoms like Hun, Turk, Kidan
The Huns have been described as short and of somewhat Mongolian appearance. Their military superiority was due to their small, rapid horses, on which they practically lived, even eating and negotiating treaties on horseback.

[Anda]

the famoust hun: Atilla khan.

Although inaccurate sketch of Attila the Hun depicts him as European, though the only extant description of his appearance by a Roman court historian states that Atilla had "a flat nose, swarthy dark complexion, broad chest, short stature and small eyes, but full of confidence" among his features, suggesting physical features common among Mongolians.

The main source for information on Attila is Priscus, a historian who traveled with Maximin on an embassy from Theodosius II in 448. He describes the village the nomadic Huns had built and settled down in as the size of the great city with solid wooden walls. He described Attila himself as:

"short of stature, with a broad chest and a large head; his eyes were small, his beard thin and sprinkled with gray; and he had a flat nose and a swarthy complexion, showing the evidences of his origin."
Attila's physical appearance was most likely that of an Eastern Asian or more specifically a Mongol, or perhaps a mixture of this type and the Turkic peoples of Central Asia.

[Anda]

Huns were indeed originally from the territory of Mongolia just like Turks. Although, present day Turks do not resemble with Blue Turks , still they thinks that they came from Blue Turks. Blue Turks were Mongoloid, now todays Turks are Caucasian.
Mongols are certainly came from those kingdoms like Hun, Turk, Kidan
The Huns have been described as short and of somewhat Mongolian appearance. Their military superiority was due to their small, rapid horses, on which they practically lived, even eating and negotiating treaties on horseback.

Above written are historical accounts of 3rd parties.
Personally i don't claim that Mongols are direct descendants of Huns. More likely indirectly, in between Hun and Mongols, there were lots of different tribes, everyone mixed, anything can happen.

This post has been edited by Anda: Feb 24 2006, 06:59 PM

[Kultigin]

Huns were indeed originally from the territory of Mongolia just like Turks. Although, present day Turks do not resemble with Blue Turks , still they thinks that they came from Blue Turks. Blue Turks were Mongoloid, now todays Turks are Caucasian.
Mongols are certainly came from those kingdoms like Hun, Turk, Kidan
The Huns have been described as short and of somewhat Mongolian appearance. Their military superiority was due to their small, rapid horses, on which they practically lived, even eating and negotiating treaties on horseback.

Gök, Kök means sky.

It isnt true to say "Turks today are caucasian", it's a lie dunno how did you came with that but its a lie. The western branch of Turks are mixed but not that heavy mixed.

You cant compare the "ancient" Turks with the Turks of Turkey, but you can do it with Tuva, sakha, kazakh, uygur, uzbek, turkmen, kyrgyz, etc etc We where and still are mongoloid people and are proud/happy with it.

[Kultigin]

Although inaccurate sketch of Attila the Hun depicts him as European, though the only extant description of his appearance by a Roman court historian states that Atilla had "a flat nose, swarthy dark complexion, broad chest, short stature and small eyes, but full of confidence" among his features, suggesting physical features common among Mongolians.

The main source for information on Attila is Priscus, a historian who traveled with Maximin on an embassy from Theodosius II in 448. He describes the village the nomadic Huns had built and settled down in as the size of the great city with solid wooden walls. He described Attila himself as:

"short of stature, with a broad chest and a large head; his eyes were small, his beard thin and sprinkled with gray; and he had a flat nose and a swarthy complexion, showing the evidences of his origin."
Attila's physical appearance was most likely that of an Eastern Asian or more specifically a Mongol, or perhaps a mixture of this type and the Turkic peoples of Central Asia.

You also know it we lived and still live side by side with mongolians, somethimes we spoke same language but later it divided into 2 groobs and somethimes we ruled you and somethimes you. We both have mixed also heavily, so you cant clearly see somethimes the differences between a mongol and a Turkic in mongolia or outside of it such as from Tuva and sakha.

Also a information you may dont know it, when mameluks won the battle in syria of mongol hulagukhan's army they captured some mongolian generals and its written by arabic historians that both sides could understand each other and spoke a same language, to mention Mameluks where Turkic (kypchak) rulers of Egypt.

[Anda]

Gök, Kök means sky.

Khökh is Mongolian word for BLUE. We say "Khökh Tenger" means Blue Sky. Sky is always blue

[Kultigin]

Khökh is Mongolian word for BLUE. We say "Khökh Tenger" means Blue Sky. Sky is always blue

its true, it means also blue by us but it is commonly used for sky but it has 2 meanings i guess.

[monguliano]

its true, it means also blue by us but it is commonly used for sky but it has 2 meanings i guess.

and tenger, which means sky in mongolian, is a derivative of tengri in turkish

[Kultigin]

What did the mongols called themselfs before Chinghiz khaan? Otuz tatar? Toquz tatar? In Orkhun inscriptions is somewhere mentioned of "otuz tatar, toquz tatar", we also know under Turkic people it also existed such names like oniki tatar.

[blitzkrieg]

the mongols(chinggisid) were the mengwu branch of shiwei ppl who lived near the amur basin. the shiwei ppl r descendants of sien-pei.

btw, theory about huns being the xiongnu who fled west is seriously doubted lately.

[Gunzo]

the mongols(chinggisid) were the mengwu branch of shiwei ppl who lived near the amur basin. the shiwei ppl r descendants of sien-pei.

btw, theory about huns being the xiongnu who fled west is seriously doubted lately.

Was für ein Quatsch erzählst du? huh?

[blitzkrieg]

Was für ein Quatsch erzählst du? huh?

i'm very much a beginner in german but i know quatsch means something to the extent of bull$hit. way to form an intelligent argument, genius. where's your rock solid proof that xiongnus were proto-mongol or huns were xiongnu?

[出家人]

the mongols(chinggisid) were the mengwu branch of shiwei ppl who lived near the amur basin. the shiwei ppl r descendants of sien-pei.

btw, theory about huns being the xiongnu who fled west is seriously doubted lately.

I heard the term "Mongol" came from Mengwu. It is said Kublai Khan himself endorsed this. Not really sure if true tho.

[blitzkrieg]

no response yet. gunzo boy, did i scare u away?

[Subedey]

the mongols(chinggisid) were the mengwu branch of shiwei ppl who lived near the amur basin. the shiwei ppl r descendants of sien-pei.

btw, theory about huns being the xiongnu who fled west is seriously doubted lately.

are you trying to say we're kinsmen? I understand you might love and adore Mongols beyond sense because of what they did back in the days. unfortunately your love isn't shared on this side of the camp, but thanks anyway. we think we're different no matter what history may come up with. durp...

This post has been edited by Subedey: Mar 8 2006, 01:09 PM

[TenShadesOfGrey]

In the book "the secret history of the mongols" it states that there was a tribe of people called the Kerait, whom aligned with the mongols and were eventually absorbed by them. The book stated the kerait had auburn hair and green or grey eyes. Anyone know anything about these people?

This post has been edited by TenShadesOfGrey: Mar 8 2006, 02:05 PM