New Theory on Angkor, Who were the last Varman kings? Options

[Leeporter]

Hey, Xigon.
Tell us the story of Taen at Dian Bian Fu again.
I guess it's from a Tai speaking community in VN, right?
Was the story of Taen in VN related to the story of toad you told earlier in another thread?

[KhmerBoi]

That's why I said you made it upside down.

Southerner used the word "Lang" as to talk/speak and when it went to its slave world, it became "Th-Lang"

So the Khmer travel to that far? why you you travel to Angkor? Why you make up slave word in those inscription and your daily speaking? why there is no Tai word in Khmer Slave inscription?

And I've shown you the Nora dance which is the mother of your Khmer dance.

Your "Chong Kra Ben" was used in the south of Thailand long before your Khmer people used it.

What is Nora dance?? Chong Kra Ben?? you mean Chorng Kben? Do you know what is Chong mean??

[color="#000080"]
You are a Khmer-centric so you forgot that Indian came from west to east, from Chaiya to Cambodia.

Khmer like me never forget that Java (from Malay-Peninsular) was the once Khmer King.. Don't forget the word Chaiya is come from the word Srivijaya they have power before you guy capture those area as well, why Don't you ask you self why Sri Thamarath always trying to put back Siem influence in that region? You Siem king receive Angkorian Heritage (by invaded and burn Angkor city) of the Malay-Peninsula but it doesn't mean those people are accept your power toward them.. And please note that your Sokothai Inscription actually a fake one!! Don't tell me that you don't know about that story^^


This post has been edited by KhmerBoi: Feb 9 2012, 12:31 AM

[ricenoodle]

Where are we going with this though?

Even if some people in this area we're talking about spoke a Daic language, it's still hard to link them to a modern Tai group. Because sharing a language family doesn't guarantee they're the same people.

For example, the Blang (Bulang) people in China speak an Austro-astiac, Mon-Khmer language...but they're not linked to neither Mon or Khmer people

http://www.1155815.com/english/peoples/201007/4831.html



http://www.china.org.cn/e-groups/shaoshu/shao-blang.htm



http://www.yunnanadventure.com/YunnanOverv...c-Minority.html



http://en.ynta.gov.cn/item/3011.aspx

These peeps look more like Vietnamese than Mon or Khmer
Are they related to Vietnamese?

This post has been edited by ricenoodle: Feb 9 2012, 12:31 AM

[XigonCongchua]

Hey, Xigon.
Tell us the story of Taen at Dian Bian Fu again.
I guess it's from a Tai speaking community in VN, right?
Was the story of Taen in VN related to the story of toad you told earlier in another thread?

The toad story I told you is a story of ethnic Kinh.

I don't know of any Tai minority story that is similar to the toad story of Kinh/Viet people.


The story in Điện Biên Phủ is about a bottle gourd from which came various ethnic groups. This story is shared by several ethnic minorities of Vietnam like Khmu, Tai...but not the Kinh folks.

[Leeporter]

So the Khmer travel to that far? why you you travel to Angkor? Why you make up slave word in those inscription and your daily speaking? why there is no Tai word in Khmer Slave inscription?

What is Nora dance?? Chong Kra Ben?? you mean Chorng Kben? Do you know what is Chong mean??

Your Chorng Kben was from Nora Dance in Srivijaya at Chaiya.

I hope you don't tell me it was created by Khmers who ran naked in this region 2,000 year ago.

[LoveIsAllAround]

Anyways the word Funan is come from Punan for the older Chinese word.. According to the inscription they found that Ancient Khmer write Phnom as Vnan read as Vunan and in Khmer Ph, P and V always exchange each other.. like the word Vimean also can write/read as Phimean as well as Pimean meaning castle.

So Chinese named your kingdom as Funan after your kingdom's name 'Vnan'? Show me your proof that you khmer have a kingdom name 'Vnan' in Funan period.

[KhmerBoi]

[b]Xigon, you don't understand.

This is not about Tai-speaking people, this is about to prove that the history was distorted to suit what the French wanted, and there was no "Khmer Empire"

I've changed many people's perspective about Funan, Srivijaya and Chenla now.

Now they realized that Srivijaya had much more influence to Chenla than they were taught.

And Funan, Chenla and Srivijaya were from the same people and also that rulers of these people are related to Tai-speakers.

Isn't that an exciting in the history world????

[/b]

I guess you think everyone is not understand why you Thai think in the other way around of the world!

[Leeporter]

The toad story I told you is a story of ethnic Kinh.

I don't know of any Tai minority story that is similar to the toad story of Kinh/Viet people.

The story in Điện Biên Phủ is about a bottle gourd from which came various ethnic groups. This story is shared by several ethnic minorities of Vietnam like Khmu, Tai...but not the Kinh folks.

Pya Taen who fought with the toad and Pya Taen in the story of the bottle gourd of the Taen City (Dien Bien Fu) were the same person or at least it refera to the same title of the king.

And I am trying to prove that Hun Tian (or Khun Taen to be more precise) of Funan is the same person with Pya Taen in the toad legend and in the story of the bottle gourd of Taen city.

You think I am crazy?

[XigonCongchua]

These peeps look more like Vietnamese than Mon or Khmer
Are they related to Vietnamese?

No. Sidewell's data showed that there's no internal branching among the AA family so they're as related to Vietnamese as to Mon or Khmer.

"Sidwell (2009a), in a lexicostatistical comparison of 36 languages which are well-known enough to exclude loan words, finds little evidence for internal branching, though he did find an area of increased contact between the Bahnaric and Katuic languages, such that languages of all branches apart from the geographically distant Munda and Nicobarese show greater similarity to Bahnaric and Katuic the closer they are to those branches, without any noticeable innovations common to Bahnaric and Katuic. He therefore takes the conservative view that the thirteen branches of Austro-Asiatic should be treated as equidistant on current evidence."



Peiros's work in 2004, however, showed this branching, in which Vietic and Palaungic (Bulang) and Khmuic seem to form a cluster

[Leeporter]

Okay Rocket Play is also found in country of Cambodia... but it was bamn by government because of the civilwar of Cambodia.. a Wow thanoo in Thailand is in Khmer call Khleang Eak that that kite was invented by Thun Chei during his migrated in China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Festival

I don't know why CAM govt banned it but this is the story of Taen from the link you gave:



When the Lord Buddha was in his bodhisatta (Pali) (Thai: โพธิสัตว์ , phothisat) incarnation as King of the Toads Phaya Khang Khok (Thai: พญาคางคก), and married to Udon Khuruthawip (Thai: อุดรคู่รู้ทวิป, Northern Partner-Knowing-Continent), his sermons drew everyone, creatures and sky-dwellers alike, away from Phaya Thaen (Thai: พญาแถน), King of the Sky)[2]. Angry Phaya Thaen withheld life-giving rains from the earth for seven years, seven months and seven days. Acting against the advice of the Toad King, Phaya Naga (Thai: พญานาค Phayanak), King of the Nāga (and personification of the Mekong) declared war on Phaya Thaen—and lost.

Persuaded by Phaya Naga to assume command, King Toad enlisted the aid of termites to build mounds reaching to the heavens, and of venomous scorpions and centipedes to attack Phaya Thaen's feet, and of hornets for air support. Previous attempts at aerial warfare against Phaya Thaen in his own element had proved futile; but even the Sky must come down to the ground. On the ground the war was won, and Phaya Thaen sued for peace. Naga Rockets fired in the air at the end of the hot, dry season are not to threaten Phaya Thaen, but to serve as a reminder to him of his treaty obligations made to Lord Bodhisatta Phaya Khang Khok, King of the Toads, down on the ground. For his part Phaya Nak was rewarded by being given the duty of Honor Guard at most Thai and Lao temples.

[KhmerBoi]

So Chinese named your kingdom as Funan after your kingdom's name 'Vnan'? Show me your proof that you khmer have a kingdom name 'Vnan' in Funan period.

There is no record of Ancient Khmer history (and I think you know about it that you burned our city so many times).
But there are the inscriptions with Vuman as the country leader position (Austro-Asiatic or Mon-Khmer people) So to say Chinese call Funan according to the local is possible then the Chinese call Funan after the Indian ^^ Sovannabhumi? Waht a joke!! I think this word is unknown for Funan people.. and Why Chinese need to call after Indian??? Don't trying to make me laugh!!

[LoveIsAllAround]

Character 混 is read "Cổn" in Vietnamese (another reading is "Hỗn"), so a K- initial in Old Chinese is most plausible.

However, relation of Huntien to Khun Thaen could be merely coincidence. I don't think Tai people were down in Cambodia at that time.


Here's a thread on the connection of Funan to Malay
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4314


In my opinion, they could be either Malay or Khmer, or should I say, an ancient group of people that was related to Malay or Khmer.

By Leeporter, Funan is center at Southern Thailand, not Cambodia. Southern Thailand were found Bronze Drums and Mon and Tai speaker, no Khmer spaker there. Malay speakers also migrated later. In the Early Funan period (before Indianized), all Funan king's names before they got Indianized are native SEA names which Leeporters suggest that they are Tai words.

扶南王国
[ 编辑 ]
混氏王朝 (前憍陈如王朝)
不明- 68年 柳叶女王 Liu Yi(与混填结婚)
68年-不明憍陈如一世即混填
不明混盘况
不明混盘盘在位3年
[ 编辑 ]
范氏王朝
201年以前- 225年前後范蔓 (全名为范师蔓 Fan Shih-Man)
范金声 1 乙巳225(Fan Chin-Sheng)
范旃 15 乙巳225
范长 1 庚申240
243年前後- 287年以後范寻 47 庚申240
357年前後竺旃檀 (可能为伊朗人) [來源請求]

I don't know Chinese but some Thai historians suggest these are Tai name and Tai titles.

This post has been edited by LoveIsAllAround: Feb 9 2012, 12:47 AM

[Leeporter]

There is no record of Ancient Khmer history (and I think you know about it that you burned our city so many times).
But there are the inscriptions with Vuman as the country leader position (Austro-Asiatic or Mon-Khmer people) So to say Chinese call Funan according to the local is possible then the Chinese call Funan after the Indian ^^ Sovannabhumi? Waht a joke!! I think this word is unknown for Funan people.. and Why Chinese need to call after Indian??? Don't trying to make me laugh!!

The word "Funan" is "Bho-Nan", period.

No more BS about Funan as Vanam etc. It's all from the French.

[XigonCongchua]

Pya Taen who fought with the toad and Pya Taen in the story of the bottle gourd of the Taen City (Dien Bien Fu) were the same person or at least it refera to the same title of the king.

And I am trying to prove that Hun Tian (or Khun Taen to be more precise) of Funan is the same person with Pya Taen in the toad legend and in the story of the bottle gourd of Taen city.

You think I am crazy?

Too much speculation though


What's up with the toad though? Is it because of bronze drums? They're found in Indonesia and Malaysia too.

[KhmerBoi]

Your Chorng Kben was from Nora Dance in Srivijaya at Chaiya.

I hope you don't tell me it was created by Khmers who ran naked in this region 2,000 year ago.

Don't forget to answer me what is Chong mean in Thai?

[LoveIsAllAround]

There is no record of Ancient Khmer history (and I think you know about it that you burned our city so many times).
But there are the inscriptions with Vuman as the country leader position (Austro-Asiatic or Mon-Khmer people) So to say Chinese call Funan according to the local is possible then the Chinese call Funan after the Indian ^^ Sovannabhumi? Waht a joke!! I think this word is unknown for Funan people.. and Why Chinese need to call after Indian??? Don't trying to make me laugh!!

If you have no proof why you Khmer eagerly claim it as Khmer? LOL

Your true first Khmer king is Trosok Peam, a Jarai king (Cham). Be proud, Chamboi.

[Leeporter]

Too much speculation though

I know.

It's as bad as the French's Funan = Vanam.

These legends are not pure fairly tales. They contain some historic fact and we need to use these legend to fill the gap of history that we can't find from stone inscriptions only.

I will study these legends and see how they are related to the history of Funan and Chenla.

[KhmerBoi]

Too much speculation though


What's up with the toad though? Is it because of bronze drums? They're found in Indonesia and Malaysia too.

I think they also found in Madagascar! ^^

[KhmerBoi]

I know.

It's as bad as the French's Funan = Vanam.

These legends are not pure fairly tales. They contain some historic fact and we need to use these legend to fill the gap of history that we can't find from stone inscriptions only.

I will study these legends and see how they are related to the history of Funan and Chenla.

What a bout the Khmer legend of NorkorKokthlok? I think it is very close to Chinese/Cham record of Funan~^^

[Leeporter]

What's up with the toad though? Is it because of bronze drums? They're found in Indonesia and Malaysia too.

Yes, that's why I said Tai-speakers were there in pre-historic time, even in Indonesia.