Dalai Lama wants to expel millions of Chinese, from Qinghai province and Sichuan Options

[devils666]

Oh, they should definitely not be given part of Sichuan. My point was that the Tibet government has a valid point in that they could have modernized without Chinese interference. If I'm a Tibetan native or Hawaiian native, I'd be pissed and have every right right to be. At least in regards to being conquered and in terms of culture. The cultures are bound to die to a large extent due to assimilation sooner or later. I understand why some Tibetans feel the way they do and why others sympathize with them.

You forget that Tibetan culture and Chinese culture is intertwined - they are not so different from each other. Tibetans and Chinese both believe in Buddhism, although from different sects. Tibetans and Chinese resemble each other physically. Traditional Tibetan clothes are made from the same silk as Chinese traditional clothes and both exhibit Qipao style lapels. Mandarin is based on the Tibetan language. These overlapping cultural traditions can only occur if both are from similar tribes. The same cannot be said for hawaiian and American culture. White people are definitely NOT even close to polynesian tribes.

I've been to China many times and know that they still speak their native language and follow their traditions. I was watching this talent program and a Tibetan singing group was on, they were all singing in Tibetan and wearing traditional clothes. When the host asked them questions in mandarin, they replied in Tibetan. There was an episode of Anthony Bourdain where he visited Shanghai and "shangri-la" that featured Tibetan people - clearly they're keeping their traditions.

[faydabakery]

You forget that Tibetan culture and Chinese culture is intertwined - they are not so different from each other. Tibetans and Chinese both believe in Buddhism, although from different sects. Tibetans and Chinese resemble each other physically. Traditional Tibetan clothes are made from the same silk as Chinese traditional clothes and both exhibit Qipao style lapels. Mandarin is based on the Tibetan language. These overlapping cultural traditions can only occur if both are from similar tribes. The same cannot be said for hawaiian and American culture. White people are definitely NOT even close to polynesian tribes.

I've been to China many times and know that they still speak their native language and follow their traditions. I was watching this talent program and a Tibetan singing group was on, they were all singing in Tibetan and wearing traditional clothes. When the host asked them questions in mandarin, they replied in Tibetan. There was an episode of Anthony Bourdain where he visited Shanghai and "shangri-la" that featured Tibetan people - clearly they're keeping their traditions.

It doesn't matter if the cultures are intertwined. How many countries in Europe have the same religion? How many in the Middle East? etc. Conquered is still conquered.

As for culture, lets take the US as an example. One could argue that the minority cultures still live. However, is it as strong as in their home nations? No. Why? Lack of ethnic people, ethnic language, ethnic museums, etc. Look at the Shanghainese language. How about the Cantonese language that is dying in the US? As we discussed in other threads, there may be the need for an overall nationalism for all of china. That everyone should be considered Chinese under one banner. Well, to accomplish that, people have to let go off their ethnic background to some degree and assimilate with the rest of the population. Shangri-la is just one remote area in China.

Btw, No Reservations is one of the best shows out there. =)

[devils666]

It doesn't matter if the cultures are intertwined. How many countries in Europe have the same religion? How many in the Middle East? etc. Conquered is still conquered.

As for culture, lets take the US as an example. One could argue that the minority cultures still live. However, is it as strong as in their home nations? No. Why? Lack of ethnic people, ethnic language, ethnic museums, etc. Look at the Shanghainese language. How about the Cantonese language that is dying in the US? As we discussed in other threads, there may be the need for an overall nationalism for all of china. That everyone should be considered Chinese under one banner. Well, to accomplish that, people have to let go off their ethnic background to some degree and assimilate with the rest of the population. Shangri-la is just one remote area in China.

Btw, No Reservations is one of the best shows out there. =)

Assimiliation is inevitable. That's why so many ethnic groups in America stopped speaking their language and took up english. That's why no one in America speaks french or Irish or German. The same way cantonese, shanghainese, or tibetan is losing appeal. But why do these westerners not care about other groups in China losing their heritage? Could it be because their crusade for Tibet comes with an agenda?

Even the CCP members come from some kind of ethnic background, even their heritage is being lost. But why do people ONLY care about Tibetans?

[faydabakery]

Assimiliation is inevitable. That's why so many ethnic groups in America stopped speaking their language and took up english. That's why no one in America speaks french or Irish or German. The same way cantonese, shanghainese, or tibetan is losing appeal. But why do these westerners not care about other groups in China losing their heritage? Could it be because their crusade for Tibet comes with an agenda?

Even the CCP members come from some kind of ethnic background, even their heritage is being lost. But why do people ONLY care about Tibetans?

I'm thinking a celebrity or someone with a lot of money in the US pushed their weight around once they heard about Tibet. They probably used that money to gain support and start pushing the media to get info and report about it. However its not just Tibet. I'm telling you, as important as China is, China's not the only thing in the news. It seems that way because we're so focused on Chinese issues on this board. I generally read about nations around the world from Honduras to Russia to the US and China, etc. It's not always just China China China. I mean, do I really have to get into African issues? How about South American issues? The European debt crisis? The continuation of the Arab Spring? Does China really seem like the center of the world? What's happening in Myanmar is pretty important too.



This post has been edited by faydabakery: Jan 29 2012, 11:41 PM

[Mid-Night_Sun]

I'm thinking a celebrity or someone with a lot of money in the US pushed their weight around once they heard about Tibet. They probably used that money to gain support and start pushing the media to get info and report about it. However its not just Tibet. I'm telling you, as important as China is, China's not the only thing in the news. It seems that way because we're so focused on Chinese issues on this board. I generally read about nations around the world from Honduras to Russia to the US and China, etc. It's not always just China China China. I mean, do I really have to get into African issues? How about South American issues? The European debt crisis? The continuation of the Arab Spring? Does China really seem like the center of the world? What's happening in Myanmar is pretty important too.

gee anyone want to guess why?

[faydabakery]

gee anyone want to guess why?

You should ask him why people only focused on discussing Tibet like its the only thing happening in the world then.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

You should ask him why people only focused on discussing Tibet like its the only thing happening in the world then.

so your point is tibet is not a big deal?

[elleX0]

so your point is tibet is not a big deal?

No Tibet is not a big deal. It is only CIA and Washington's financial support that has blown Tibet out of all proportion for international political reasons.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

No Tibet is not a big deal. It is only CIA and Washington's financial support that has blown Tibet out of all proportion for international political reasons.

i agree. my follow up point was going to be about how westerners are the ones to bring it up first. so how are you going to get mad at Chinese for responding and saying we talk about Tibet like its the only important issue.

everything they start, Chinese get blamed for retaliating. and Chinese talking about Tibet makes sense. so its even more skewed.

This post has been edited by Mid-Night_Sun: Jan 30 2012, 06:44 AM

[elleX0]

i agree. my follow up point was going to be about how westerners are the ones to bring it up first. so how are you going to get mad at Chinese for responding and saying we talk about Tibet like its the only important issue.

everything they start, Chinese get blamed for retaliating. and Chinese talking about Tibet makes sense. so its even more skewed.

Since it looks like the PRC does not want to have as public slanging match for the world to see, it will have to be up to citizens views to debate this issue. But to debate based on prejudice is fatal. Debate on facts and history is a more demanding skill that needs people who know their subject matter. So before you argue it is best to do some research and in depth before you venture any ideas.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

Since it looks like the PRC does not want to have as public slanging match for the world to see, it will have to be up to citizens views to debate this issue. But to debate based on prejudice is fatal. Debate on facts and history is a more demanding skill that needs people who know their subject matter. So before you argue it is best to do some research and in depth before you venture any ideas.

the idea of debating Tibets history with people who dont realize their own white governments recognized Chinese suzerainty over Tibet is a joke. Tibet was never part of China thats why they declared independence from China? incredible.

i dont even think its Tibet's history they are "concerned" with. but the crackdowns. which might mean something if their concern was genuine. but its clear from their response when they found out most of the victims during Uighur riot were Han that they do not give a $hit about human suffering or anything like that.

so in short, its just a crutch. heard tibet during olympics, heard tibet during military parade, heard tibet during space tasks. tibet, uighur, cultural revolution, it doesnt matter what China does they just throw those out there. zero sincerity for valid criticism, or concern for people's well being. its really low and despicable.

[faydabakery]

so your point is tibet is not a big deal?

My point is that it's not the only thing being focused on by the media. And no, compared to other events in the world, Tibet is not that important. Last I heard there was no attack on thousands of Tibetans recently. Even just regarding China, look at all the non Tibet articles:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/interna...hina&st=cse

And that's just the NY Times. I think people need to step back and look at the overall picture more often.

the idea of debating Tibets history with people who dont realize their own white governments recognized Chinese suzerainty over Tibet is a joke. Tibet was never part of China thats why they declared independence from China? incredible.

i dont even think its Tibet's history they are "concerned" with. but the crackdowns. which might mean something if their concern was genuine. but its clear from their response when they found out most of the victims during Uighur riot were Han that they do not give a $hit about human suffering or anything like that.

so in short, its just a crutch. heard tibet during olympics, heard tibet during military parade, heard tibet during space tasks. tibet, uighur, cultural revolution, it doesnt matter what China does they just throw those out there. zero sincerity for valid criticism, or concern for people's well being. its really low and despicable.

Who are you asking for sincerity and concern from? newspapers? governments? citizens?

This post has been edited by faydabakery: Jan 30 2012, 08:58 AM

[Mid-Night_Sun]

My point is that it's not the only thing being focused on by the media. And no, compared to other events in the world, Tibet is not that important. Last I heard there was no attack on thousands of Tibetans recently. Even just regarding China, look at all the non Tibet articles:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/interna...hina&st=cse

And that's just the NY Times. I think people need to step back and look at the overall picture more often.




Who are you asking for sincerity and concern from? newspapers? governments? citizens?

course its not important. make no mistake, its western media that always brings up tibet. we respond to these articles. you are telling the wrong people tibet is not a big issue.

i ask sincerity from nobody. im pointing out they are fake.

[elleX0]

course its not important. make no mistake, its western media that always brings up tibet. we respond to these articles. you are telling the wrong people tibet is not a big issue.

i ask sincerity from nobody. im pointing out they are fake.

The Gelugpa Buddhist Sect number about 120,000 and they have lost power in Tibet, but there are many other Tibetan Buddhist sects that are flourishing there, even now.

[bear11]

No Tibet is not a big deal. It is only CIA and Washington's financial support that has blown Tibet out of all proportion for international political reasons.

No it is not CIA it is CCP that created this problem and made a star of Dalai Lama.

Of course the west, particularly the US, wants to weaken China, however the CCP created conditions for that to happen.

It seems the CCP doesn't even understand how the western media works, the western media doesn't care if the Dalai Lama is a splittist as the CCP calls him.

The CCP shouldn't most of the time even talk about Tibet, but about the fact that the Dalai Lama wants to ethnically cleanse areas in 4 Chinese provinces, that some of his demands are causing ethnic tensions in multiethnic areas... which is all true..., that the monks are encouraging violence in multiethnic areas in provinces , such as what is now happening in western part of Sichuan province, where the monk almost brags to the western media that the Tibetans were destroying Chinese shops in Sichuan, and when they make trouble, especially in provinces, just say that every tax payer is equal nobody can have privileges, while the CCP is talking how they improved their lives and so on, which they should realize by now is not working.

The most important thing is to remove an ethnic name from the names of autonomous administrative divisions, where you have Geographical area + Ethnic name + "Autonomous" + Admin. division, such as Haibei Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture.

Things like that were created by the CCP and if the CCP wants to call them autonomous good, but remove the ethnic name because often these areas within provinces which are always multi-ethnic became Tibetan areas in the eyes of western media, monks and probably some Tibetans, after all, it was the CCP that gave that name, so they probably think that all area should belong just to them and that successful people from other communities living there should have their shops destroyed.

The CCP also created Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region by abolishing provinces there and turned Xinjiang province into Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

When you have such large ethnic ares that are "autonomous", even if the chance of separating is low it will attract a lot of external enemies, at least to tarnish China, and it is obvious that the tarnishing of China is quite successful.

You have so much bloody conflicts in many countries that do not attract so much attention, look at the ongoing conflicts in Russia's Dagestan and Chechnya, it is in areas so small you can't even find them on a map of Russia, but when something happens in an area a size of Iran such as Xinjiang it attracts a lot of attention.

The nationalists were not idiots, their 1947 constitution was the same as in most normal countries and much better than the current one.

What I am writing here is actually something that recently some scholars from China were talking about, I will soon post an article about that.

Basically, the CCP is guilty for creating some of these problems and they won't go away, just like they didn't go away in Russia when they became a democracy because they kept ridiculous administrative system created by communists, while other big countries such as Brazil, Australia, the US or India don't have this kind of problem because they didn't have communists to create them.

This post has been edited by bear11: Jan 31 2012, 04:52 AM

[elleX0]

No it is not CIA it is CCP that created this problem and made a star of Dalai Lama.

Of course the west, particularly the US, wants to weaken China, however the CCP created conditions for that to happen.

It seems the CCP doesn't even understand how the western media works, the western media doesn't care if the Dalai Lama is a splittist as the CCP calls him.

The CCP shouldn't most of the time even talk about Tibet, but about the fact that the Dalai Lama wants to ethnically cleanse areas in 4 Chinese provinces, that some of his demands are causing ethnic tensions in multiethnic areas... which is all true..., that the monks are encouraging violence in multiethnic areas in provinces , such as what is now happening in western part of Sichuan province, where the monk almost brags to the western media that the Tibetans were destroying Chinese shops in Sichuan, and when they make trouble, especially in provinces, just say that every tax payer is equal nobody can have privileges, while the CCP is talking how they improved their lives and so on, which they should realize by now is not working.

The most important thing is to remove an ethnic name from the names of autonomous administrative divisions, where you have Geographical area + Ethnic name + "Autonomous" + Admin. division, such as Haibei Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture.

Things like that were created by the CCP and if the CCP wants to call them autonomous good, but remove the ethnic name because often these areas within provinces which are always multi-ethnic became Tibetan areas in the eyes of western media, monks and probably some Tibetans, after all, it was the CCP that gave that name, so they probably think that all area should belong just to them and that successful people from other communities living there should have their shops destroyed.

The CCP also created Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region by abolishing provinces there and turned Xinjiang province into Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

When you have such large ethnic ares that are "autonomous", even if the chance of separating is low it will attract a lot of external enemies, at least to tarnish China, and it is obvious that the tarnishing of China is quite successful.

You have so much bloody conflicts in many countries that do not attract so much attention, look at the ongoing conflicts in Russia's Dagestan and Chechnya, it is in areas so small you can't even find them on a map of Russia, but when something happens in an area a size of Iran such as Xinjiang it attracts a lot of attention.

The nationalists were not idiots, their 1947 constitution was the same as in most normal countries and much better than the current one.

What I am writing here is actually something that recently some scholars from China were talking about, I will soon post an article about that.

Basically, the CCP is guilty for creating some of these problems and they won't go away, just like they didn't go away in Russia when they became a democracy because they kept ridiculous administrative system created by communists, while other big countries such as Brazil, Australia, the US or India don't have this kind of problem because they didn't have communists to create them.

bear, you are sure naive about the history and politics of Tibet vis-a vis China

[EphedErah]

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[elleX0]

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Strange, Tibetans want to evict all Hans from Tibet, yet Tibetans demand/expect the right to live as they wish in every part of China, and they do.

[Ideodygreasse]

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[Ideodygreasse]

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