Three Purities 三清: Kev Txwj Laus (Taoism), Laozi, influences on the Hmong culture Options

[qaib]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWDvRmWxrn4

Laozi is the only philosopher that I admired growing up. Many Hmong philosophy, values, morals and ethics are extremely similar/identical to Laozi's teaching.
Is that why we have all these sayings about "love, peace and harmony?" is that why most Hmong people always talk about nyob toj siab because it's closer to achieving peace/heaven, kho siab, ua neeg zoo, sib hlub sib pab.

haiv neeg muaj haiv neeg tsim, which is why you should not hate a group of people, but learn to love.

hlub yus niam yus txiv, cov muam cov kwv cov tij, cov phoojywg.... love your mother and father, your sisters and brothers and love your friends....

Listening to Hmong proverbs, wise words...... they're pretty much the same as many of Laozi's wise words.





I've been told that the three feathers on the Hmong altars represent the SAN QING (three purities) of Taoism/ or three celestial beings. Hmong people do not worship idols, but Chinese do, which is why Chinese have the idols, but Hmong have the three feathers or stars to represent the Three purities.














The Three Celestial Beings




Wonder why JOSS PAPER are very important to us Hmong people?





This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 5 2011, 12:54 AM

[qaib]

Hmong and southern Chinese worship the same gods, but in different ways... more like the Hmong practice an orthodox form/older form of Taoism.

Would it be that Yawm Saub (Ye Seo) is actually Laozi? I've learned that Yawm Saub is not the supreme god (Lub Ntuj), but rather a wise elderly man.



This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 5 2011, 12:36 AM

[DOUBLEMINT]

Yawm Saub is actually Laozi?What do you mean?

[qaib]

Yawm Saub

Yawm (Ye) - grandpa
Saub (Shao) - above

basically means "grandpa from above."

Known as a wise elderly man in the Hmong culture, who teaches people to love, do the right things, respect, harmony and peace. Respect nature, respect animals, respect your environment.....

This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 5 2011, 12:50 AM

[DOUBLEMINT]

爷 ye grandpa
上 shang above
^
Like that?

[qaib]

^

yes..

Ye means Grandpa in Hmong. Shao means above.

Ye Shao is a deity in the Hmong culture. Often known as the supreme god/grandpa from above that loves and shows compassion.....

This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 5 2011, 12:57 AM

[DOUBLEMINT]

^Ye shao sounds gay.
Is he like a mythological figure or something?How did you know about him？

[qaib]

Ye Shao is basically known as the wise man. Just like how Jesus and Buddha sound gay. LOL

Txwv Laus Neeg

Txwv - Tsu (teacher)
Laus - Lao (elder/wise)
Neeg - Neng (people/person)

He is a Txwv Laus Neeg (a wise individual) in the Hmong culture.
He is a religious deity in the Hmong culture. Often known as the one who has the last judgment when reaching the gate of heaven (ntsuab yeej) or Ying (spirit realm).

This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 5 2011, 12:58 AM

[DOUBLEMINT]

^Your parents told you that or you read about it？Id like to know what kind of role he plays in hmong culture.I had to learn about confucius and laozi in school.My parents never heard of them.

[qaib]

Well, almost all Hmong people know Ye Shao, because he's the supreme deity in our culture.

Growing up, my parents would often say, if you do bad things, the man from above (Ye Shao) sees you.

The only Hmong people that don't know him are Hmong-Christians, but traditional Hmong regard Ye Shao as the supreme deity.

This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 5 2011, 01:03 AM

[DOUBLEMINT]

You have to be very superstitious to believe someone is watching you from above.How many religions are there in hmong culture?I saw the other thread about shaman,does it have anything to do with manchurian shamanism?

[qaib]

Hmong people only have one religion (more like practice)... the rest are Christianity, Catholic, Mormon.... no Buddhist/Muslim.......

It's too complex to even label it a name, but it's more similar to Taoism, but not quite, though it has many elements similar to Taoism.

A shaman is a mediator between the two worlds in the Hmong culture, known as Yaj Ceeb (Yan Cheng) and Ntsuab Yeej (Jua Yeng).
Yan (human world) and Yeng (spirit world), the same concept as Ying Yang.

A shaman is a spiritual healer that can travel between the physical world and spirit world.....

I'm not superstitious, but it's part of my culture and my native religion.

This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 5 2011, 01:27 AM

[DOUBLEMINT]

^You said you want someone to read your past life.How does that work?

This post has been edited by DOUBLEMINT: Jul 5 2011, 08:00 AM

[Theelee]

kinda wierd. i think i dreampt of this picture... but it was carved into a rock

[Rayzor]

So Yawm Saub is Laozi which mean Laozi is Hmong/Miao? I always thought people like Laozi and Confucius are ethnically Chinese.

I got a question to the Hmong. Do you know about TSU KA LAW YEH? Because in 2009 in asia finest, xeemlauj claim TSU KA LAW YEH and Laozi are the same person.

WOULD IT BE THAT TSU KA LAW YEH and TZU LAO(LAOZI) are the same person?

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=201069

Fast forward to 2011, qaib claim Yawm Saub is actually Laozi. Although it is not directly, qaib is obviously suggesting Laozi is Hmong through Yawm Saub.

Would it be that Yawm Saub (Ye Seo) is actually Laozi?

I am confuse. Which one of you is the right one? At least one of you has to be wrong. Even among Hmong nationalists, they contradict with each other. It's easy to tell what kind of political agenda they have. This is like another stupid afrocentristism. youku already said everything that need to be said so I don't think I have to further reply unless it really necessary.

This post has been edited by Rayzor: Jul 5 2011, 01:33 PM

[sbh]

No wonder my grandpa save the vietcong A$$ when they got caught. He have to much of Taoism.

[qaib]

Regarding to this thread

Did I ask a question saying that he's Hmong? or did I made a thread that the Hmong worship the same gods? Get lost, dumbfu-k.

Hmong are the fifth largest group in China. Most southern ethnic groups practice forms of Taoism. The more I learn, the more I understand.
So, if you don't know anything about Hmong, get your @$$ out of here.

How the hell do you know he is ethnic Chinese? Hmong people are as Chinese as the Han themselves in China.

You're probably too stupid to realize that. You probably need to
do more research on who we are, then trying to be an idiot when you don't know what we believe in.

The southern Chinese believe in Laozi. We believe in Laozi. It just like how some Chinese believe in fat buddha, southeast Asian believe in buddha and Japan believe in buddha....



This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 5 2011, 12:58 PM

[Rayzor]

Did I ask a question saying that he's Hmong?

My bad, I have to apologize here. For the last few weeks I have been arguing with a black nationalist, thekyuke in Chinese chat who try to claim Shang as black, so I thought you are like him and try to claim Laozi as Hmong.

How the hell do you know he is ethnic Chinese?

Here is the reason why I think Laozi is Chinese or at least not Hmong/Miao. Laozi is born in 604 BC in Zhou Dynasty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi

On the other hand, Hmong/Miao are originated from southern China.

In other words, the Miao have always been in central and southern China where they are today.

http://www.hmongstudies.org/GYLeeHSJ8.pdf

I did not read the entire thing since it's 24 pages long,but the one I quoted is in page 12.This map below also suggest that Hmong originated from southern China. I know there are some Hmong that claim Chu state belong to Hmong, but according to the map below, obviously they are wrong and Hmong never migrate from Chu and Hmong has always been in southern China where they are today since early Neolithic.



As for Zhou dynasty, this is how it look like. It cover mostly northern China(sino-tibetan).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Dynasty

In other words,

Laozi = northern China origin
Hmong/Miao = southern China origin

Therefore, Laozi =/= Hmong
This is just my own personal theory. Hope that make sense.

I believe that Han Chinese are the largest population in China(or at least in northern China) ever since ancient times, so chances are, Laozi are ethnically Chinese.Even if Laozi is ethnically not Chinese, the possibility him being Hmong is very low while him being Chinese are higher. Also if I'm not mistaken, ancient scriptures related to Taoism are written in Chinese characters.



http://history.cultural-china.com/en/180History573.html


Anyway, doesn't matter anymore because you yourself said you are not saying Laozi is Hmong.

So, if you don't know anything about Hmong, get your @$$ out of here.

You're probably too stupid to realize that. You probably need to
do more research on who we are, then trying to be an idiot when you don't know what we believe in.

That is none of my concern and not important at all. It's true that I don't know much about Hmong, but, I know about Chinese history and Laozi(although not really in great detail). I don't need to do research on Hmong to understand Laozi. So when my understanding on Laozi contradict with others, I feel the need to response and reply to deepen my own understanding about China and Laozi. But as you mentioned, you never say Laozi is Hmong so everything is just my misunderstanding so I apologize once again and I hope this clear things up with you.

By the way, I also think it is interesting that beside Hmong philosophy, values, morals and ethics are extremely similar/identical to Laozi's teaching, there are also similarity between Laozi's teaching and Islam. Maybe besides Han Chinese, Hmong and Islam, there are other religions or races that share similar values,morals and ethics to Laozi's teaching. Anyway, just a thought.

Mirza Tahir Ahmad, the fourth successor of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote that Laozi's spiritual teachings were like Islam. His followers thought he could be worshipped and then Laozi was being worshipped

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi#Influence

This post has been edited by Rayzor: Jul 7 2011, 02:53 AM

[qaib]

^

Omg, the Hmong in Hunan are Taoists and the rest of the other Hmong throughout southwest China practice forms of Taoism.
Do I care what ethnicity is Laozi? No. He enlightened me and that's all I care. You don't know us. LOL You went back to dig a thread that has nothing to do with this thread. Do you not see
that the Hmong religion has Taoist elements just like how there are Mahayana, Theravada, Tibetan Buddhism? idiot.

You believe Han chinese were the majority of ancient time? The Han ethnic is composed of various ethnic groups and it is well known. The concept of "Han identity" was established after
the establishment of CCP. Many ethnic groups became Han to avoid being persecuted. Many ethnic groups assimilated like the Manchu and so forth. You would probably think famous Chinese opera singer is not Hmong.


Maybe you need to do more research on where Laozi was born. Watch the video below.

Laozi was born in Quren Li, Ku county in the state of Chu

Do you now wonder why northern Chinese mostly praise CONFUCIUS/most northern Chinese are not religious, while southern Chinese are still religious (traditional Taoist beliefs)? LAOZI
was not from the north. He was born in the south as stated in the video below. Btw, a Taoist discovered how to make firework/gun powder.

[Cultural Literates of China HQ] Lao Zi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e01CQpyi5E8



So, famous CHINESE FOLK SINGER is Chinese, but what is her ethnicity? you wouldn't know. lol


This post has been edited by qaib: Jul 7 2011, 12:17 AM

[qaib]

I'm not a fan of Buddha or Confucius, but I like this jpg.


Taoism divided into two sects: the Taoism of Great Peace and the Taoism of Five Bushels of Rice, but only the Taoism of Five Bushels of Rice has been handed down, as the Taoism of Great Peace was later forbidden by the feudal rulers. Zhang DaoLing, known as Heavenly Teacher Zhang, founded the Taoism of Five Bushels of Rice and is considered the founder of today’s Taoism.



Hmong Taoism is quite different from Chinese Taoism, but both are very similar. Personally, I think the Hmong may have follow the other form of Taoism: The Great Peace.

Taipingjing(Classic of Great Peace), also called asTaiping Qingling Shu(Black Scarf Book of Supreme Peace), is one of the most important canons of Taoism. It is said that this canon was handed down from Taoist Yu Ji of the Eastern Han Dynasty (25-220).

The contents of Taiping Jing concentrate on the following four aspects:

I. It inherits the Tao of Laozi, the founder of Taoism,and the traditional deity religion, reconstructs the system of the early Taoist doctrine of Human and Nature in Harmony, and put forward the concepts of immortal supernatural being, deity in body and pursuit of longevity.

II. Based on the theory of five elements, it puts forward a set of ruling methods for rulers to control the country, regarding by doing nothing everything will be done as the guideline for running a country.

III. As to the cultivation methods of Taoist disciples, the canon advocates refraining from eating grain, living onqi(vital energy), taking medicines, cultivating the nature, returning from deity, acupuncture, auspice, geomantic omen, taboo and so on. At the same time, it also pays attention to Taoist magic figures or incantations, saying that eating incantations can get rid of evils, acquire blessing, treat diseases and make people live forever. It requires disciples to keep fast, bow in solute, pray, offer a sacrifice, exorcise evils, chant canon and so on.

IV. The canon puts forward the retribution theory based on benefaction and immoral conducts. It is said that if a person does many kinds of evil, the heaven will bring disasters to him/her or his/her later generations. Thus, the canon seriously advises common people to do good deeds. The believing and cultivation of correct Tao may help one eliminate the burdens and become supernatural being.