Should the world be given proof of Bin Laden's death? Options

[tangawizi]

happy now??

seriously, why can't we just wait for him to come up with another Al Jazeera video holding up a newspaper dated the day after he was allegedly killed and saying

"Nah nah nah nah nah naaaaaah.... u can't catch me!!"

[avisitor]

I side with the president. No inflammatory pictures is to be given to terrorist.
They will only use it as a shrine and rallying point for their terrorist acts.
If the world doesn't want to believe and conspiracy theorist don't want to believe then fine.
Let them doubt. We don't have to do things to prove to others that we have done them to better the world.

[Jarhier]

the main reasons for terrorism is lack of education, poverty, and occupation of foreign powers in those extremist regions. it will not go away just because bin laden, who was irrelevant since iraq invasion, "died" a decade after 9/11.

bin laden had been a phantom and will remain as a phantom thanks to this decision. the US showed/leaked pics and vid of saddam's execution and death of his sons, showing them off like a trophy and nothing bad happened to america. nothing will change as long as the US stays there.

[InitialDJay]

this is a conspiracy, but his cousin obama doesn't want him to be exposed.

[PaxAsiaticus]

I side with the president. No inflammatory pictures is to be given to terrorist.
They will only use it as a shrine and rallying point for their terrorist acts.
If the world doesn't want to believe and conspiracy theorist don't want to believe then fine.
Let them doubt.

I find that hard to believe as Bin Laden and his followers subscribe and belong to the ultra-orthodox/conservative Wahhabi/Salafist sect which have
got a butt hurt against the usage of shrines as they fear worship given to any other being or saint aside from Allah.

After all these years of American belligerence and the deaths and destruction it caused, you don't think that the world has plenty to doubt?

We don't have to do things to prove to others that we have done them to better the world.

Right. Then maybe he can start by giving back his Nobel Prize and apologies to the rest of the world for all the empty speeches he has made about America listening to the world and being more in touch with them. Since neither he nor the entire country have to "prove" to others to better the world.
Surely y'all have to be held to that.

This post has been edited by PaxAsiaticus: May 6 2011, 04:17 AM

[avisitor]

I find that hard to believe as Bin Laden and his followers subscribe and belong to the ultra-orthodox/conservative Wahhabi/Salafist sect which have
got a butt hurt against the usage of shrines as they fear worship given to any other being or saint aside from Allah.

After all these years of American belligerence and the deaths and destruction it caused, you don't think that the world has plenty to doubt?

You really don't care about the consequences of showing pictures that would inflame militant terrorist???
You only care about your proof??? If so then let's chop off your leg first then you can see the photos???

You just want to doubt??? Fine.
The world doubts??? If men of integrity tell you the earth goes around the sun then do you believe??
Or did you go and look for proof yourself?? Your choice ... go look for Bin Laden.

Right. Then maybe he can start by giving back his Nobel Prize and apologies to the rest of the world for all the empty speeches he has made about America listening to the world and being more in touch with them. Since neither he nor the entire country have to "prove" to others to better the world.
Surely y'all have to be held to that.

Where do you get off with your sense of entitlement???
What gives you the right to demand to see the pictures???
Maybe you should provide the us with "world peace" before you can see those pictures??
Surely y'all have to be held to that.


edit: By MAGGIE MICHAEL, Associated Press Maggie Michael, Associated Press – 2 hrs 30 mins ago
CAIRO – Al-Qaida confirmed the killing of Osama bin Laden Friday and vowed revenge, saying Americans' "happiness will turn to sadness" in the first statement by the terror network since its leader was slain in a U.S. commando raid against his Pakistani hideout.

The confirmation came as newly uncovered documents found in bin Laden's residence revealed al-Qaida plans for derailing an American train on the upcoming 10th anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Terror experts have said bin Laden's death on Monday was a setback for al-Qaida but the threat of attacks remains and could even spike in coming days from individuals or small extremist groups inspired to take revenge for the killing.

The statement, dated Tuesday but posted Friday on militant websites, opens the way for the group to name a successor to bin Laden. His deputy Ayman al-Zawahri is now the most prominent figure in the group and a likely contender to take his place.

The link is : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110506/ap_on_..._laden_al_qaida

More proof that Bin Laden is dead. But, you still want pictures?? Why???
You want to stir up the terrorists and have them blow up your commuter train??
Just accept it and move on.

This post has been edited by avisitor: May 6 2011, 11:48 AM

[elleX0]

the main reasons for terrorism is lack of education, poverty, and occupation of foreign powers in those extremist regions. it will not go away just because bin laden, who was irrelevant since iraq invasion, "died" a decade after 9/11.

bin laden had been a phantom and will remain as a phantom thanks to this decision. the US showed/leaked pics and vid of saddam's execution and death of his sons, showing them off like a trophy and nothing bad happened to america. nothing will change as long as the US stays there.

Sorry Jarhier, You have been grossly misled. The reason for "Islamic terrorism" is a result of "Islamic Jihad." Proof below:

Qur'an:8:12 "I(Prophet Muhammad) shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari:V1B2N25 "Allah's Apostle was asked, 'What is the best deed?' He replied, 'To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.' The questioner then asked, 'What is the next best in goodness?' He replied, 'To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah's Cause.'"

Islam is a complete system of life. For any answer to life, just Google the Quran or the Hadiths and you will have your answer.

[avisitor]

The main reason for terrorism is that some people believe that they can get whatever they want by
killing and maiming innocent people and scaring the governments into obeying their demands.

The reason for the recent set of terrorist is that they believe the rest of the world is helping
Israel beat off and kill Arabs. Being so incensed with injustice, they believe their acts of terrorism
are ways of letting the world know of their claims. And, sooner or later they will find their justice.
Unfortunately, they haven't tried to get any message across .. other than kill the infidels.

Of course, having "Allah" or "God" on your side, it helps the terrorists justify their acts of violence on non-combatants

The terrorists have one very effective tool. They set their propaganda at the heart of the weak minded
and dis-enfranchised and dis-disgruntled, etc. Thus, they get all sorts of people into their organization.
But, since the pay off for acts of terrorism is death or imprisonment, they never have to take in those
people into their homes and communities.

Everyone knows that you can't fight ideas with just guns. Unfortunately, I don't think the terrorists know that.

[elleX0]

The main reason for terrorism is that some people believe that they can get whatever they want by
killing and maiming innocent people and scaring the governments into obeying their demands.

The reason for the recent set of terrorist is that they believe the rest of the world is helping
Israel beat off and kill Arabs. Being so incensed with injustice, they believe their acts of terrorism
are ways of letting the world know of their claims. And, sooner or later they will find their justice.
Unfortunately, they haven't tried to get any message across .. other than kill the infidels.

Of course, having "Allah" or "God" on your side, it helps the terrorists justify their acts of violence on non-combatants

The terrorists have one very effective tool. They set their propaganda at the heart of the weak minded
and dis-enfranchised and dis-disgruntled, etc. Thus, they get all sorts of people into their organization.
But, since the pay off for acts of terrorism is death or imprisonment, they never have to take in those
people into their homes and communities.

Everyone knows that you can't fight ideas with just guns. Unfortunately, I don't think the terrorists know that.

Proofs no longer needed. al Qaeda have admitted that Osama bin Laden is dead.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/no...ms-osama-death/

[avisitor]

Proofs no longer needed. al Qaeda have admitted that Osama bin Laden is dead.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/no...ms-osama-death/

As post #6 has the link to show the info.

But, there was the other question of the reason for terrorists ...
never mind

[elleX0]

The main reason for terrorism is that some people believe that they can get whatever they want by
killing and maiming innocent people and scaring the governments into obeying their demands.

The reason for the recent set of terrorist is that they believe the rest of the world is helping
Israel beat off and kill Arabs. Being so incensed with injustice, they believe their acts of terrorism
are ways of letting the world know of their claims. And, sooner or later they will find their justice.
Unfortunately, they haven't tried to get any message across .. other than kill the infidels.

Of course, having "Allah" or "God" on your side, it helps the terrorists justify their acts of violence on non-combatants

The terrorists have one very effective tool. They set their propaganda at the heart of the weak minded
and dis-enfranchised and dis-disgruntled, etc. Thus, they get all sorts of people into their organization.
But, since the pay off for acts of terrorism is death or imprisonment, they never have to take in those
people into their homes and communities.

Everyone knows that you can't fight ideas with just guns. Unfortunately, I don't think the terrorists know that.

Sorry avisitor, I did not mean to ignore your other questions. But I do not see it your way, I go back to the very fundamentals of Islam. Let me quote a few Islamic Holy verses to show you that if you join them all together the answer to why Islam is so aggressively domineering is this:

Qur'an 20:14 "Verily, I am Allah. No Ilah (God) may be worshiped but I. So serve you Me, and perform regular prostration prayer for My praise. Verily the Hour is coming. I am almost hiding it from Myself." (This creates the "US and THEM"

Qur'an:2:216 "Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not." [Another translation reads:] "Warfare is ordained for you." This is Allah's Command

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."
Qur'an:8:57 "If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned."
Ishaq:326 "If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah's enemies."
And these are the detailed instructions standing for 1400 years. It is there in the Qur'an. Nothjing to do with Palestines. Before 1948 there were no such people as Palestines. They only appeared after the Jewish State of Israel was formed.

[avisitor]

Sorry avisitor, I did not mean to ignore your other questions. But I do not see it your way, I go back to the very fundamentals of Islam. Let me quote a few Islamic Holy verses to show you that if you join them all together the answer to why Islam is so aggressively domineering is this:

You can do the same to the Bible or any other book.
Take what you want and put things together to get whatever meaning you want.
People have done this for thousands of years.

One famous person said, "Seek and you shall find"
Let me amend that to "Seek and you shall find whatever it is you want regardless if it exist or not."
Look for the communist in Joseph McCarthy's Era of hunting for an enemy in our midst.
Hmm, you must be a commie ...

[DEL]

[sarc] god hates children and doesn't hate pedophiles

In the old testament, god guided his people and destroyed many nations that didnt fit with his description of a good human being.
He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, after Lot and his family escaped. The adults were probably guilty, but were their children too? Yes, ofcourse, they are subject to what their parents do.
One of the curses god casted over the Egyptians was killing all their firstborn children. Children who didnt had a clue what was going on and couldnt even judge if the slavery of the Jews was right or wrong. Kill them anyways, because of their parents.
To show the Devil a point, god killed all the wives and Children of Job, to see if he still would believe in god. Okay, we understand the children now, but why the women. They must be not human too.

But didnt they say you should respect the "little ones" in Matthew 18:1-14 and not offend them. As you can read in these verses, only the ones that do believe in god. So if they don't believe, if they show disrespect once in the church, you can do anything with them whatever you want.

A pedophile added in defense. Hey, people kill for religion, even if their books say that god disapproves. The book says its vs things thats ''without natural affection'' and sexual harassing, but i showed those non-believing children they should be religious. for god
[/sarc]

*the writer of this post was only showcasing how verses can be interpreted. The writer and god is vs terrorists, pedophiles and others who wrongly interpret the holy scriptures.

This post has been edited by DEL: May 7 2011, 09:11 AM

[elleX0]

You can do the same to the Bible or any other book.
Take what you want and put things together to get whatever meaning you want.
People have done this for thousands of years.

One famous person said, "Seek and you shall find"
Let me amend that to "Seek and you shall find whatever it is you want regardless if it exist or not."
Look for the communist in Joseph McCarthy's Era of hunting for an enemy in our midst.
Hmm, you must be a commie ...

Avistor, then please show me what you have found to counter what I have posted. Don't simply generalise.

[avisitor]

Avistor, then please show me what you have found to counter what I have posted. Don't simply generalise.

Why? Do I need to counter your posts???
Sorry, don't feel like working on my days off.

[Jarhier]

Sorry Jarhier, You have been grossly misled. The reason for "Islamic terrorism" is a result of "Islamic Jihad." Proof below:

Qur'an:8:12 "I(Prophet Muhammad) shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari:V1B2N25 "Allah's Apostle was asked, 'What is the best deed?' He replied, 'To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.' The questioner then asked, 'What is the next best in goodness?' He replied, 'To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah's Cause.'"

Islam is a complete system of life. For any answer to life, just Google the Quran or the Hadiths and you will have your answer.

yes, religion is part of it, but it's not the main reason. you have to consider everything, their history, culture, circumstances etc., otherwise you'll only be generalizing one particular religion as you are doing now. as you know pakistan and afghanstan have one of highest illiteracy rates in the world. so quoting koran verses would be irrelevant here. i see radicalized islam as a propaganda, a mere driving force to unify against foreign invaders. it isn't much different from how catholics abused its religion during the middle ages, exploiting poor and uneducated to war and greed. another thing is that majority of afghanistans don't even aware of 9/11 and why the US is occupying and bombing their villages.

there are lot of rants out there from osama bin laden's ineterviews about foreign military presence/invasions in muslim countries, so it shows it's not only about religion.

one of them:

{{July 10, 1996 The British newspaper The Independent quotes bin Laden as saying:
"The ordinary man knows that [Saudi Arabia] is the largest oil producer in the world, yet at the same time he is suffering from taxes and bad services. Now the people understand the speeches of the ulemas in the mosques--that our country has become an American colony. They act decisively with every action to kick the Americans out of Saudi Arabia. What happened in Riyadh and [Dhahran] when 24 Americans were killed in two bombings is clear evidence of the huge anger of Saudi people against America. The Saudis now know their real enemy is America." [From The Washington Post 8/23/98]}}

[elleX0]

yes, religion is part of it, but it's not the main reason. you have to consider everything, their history, culture, circumstances etc., otherwise you'll only be generalizing one particular religion as you are doing now. as you know pakistan and afghanstan have one of highest illiteracy rates in the world. so quoting koran verses would be irrelevant here. i see radicalized islam as a propaganda, a mere driving force to unify against foreign invaders. it isn't much different from how catholics abused its religion during the middle ages, exploiting poor and uneducated to war and greed. another thing is that majority of afghanistans don't even aware of 9/11 and why the US is occupying and bombing their villages.

there are lot of rants out there from osama bin laden's ineterviews about foreign military presence/invasions in muslim countries, so it shows it's not only about religion.

one of them:

{{July 10, 1996 The British newspaper The Independent quotes bin Laden as saying:
"The ordinary man knows that [Saudi Arabia] is the largest oil producer in the world, yet at the same time he is suffering from taxes and bad services. Now the people understand the speeches of the ulemas in the mosques--that our country has become an American colony. They act decisively with every action to kick the Americans out of Saudi Arabia. What happened in Riyadh and [Dhahran] when 24 Americans were killed in two bombings is clear evidence of the huge anger of Saudi people against America. The Saudis now know their real enemy is America." [From The Washington Post 8/23/98]}}

All Muslim memorise the Quran. That is what they know and that is what guides their actions. All Muslims submit to the will of Allah and listen to the Imams. I bet 99% Muslims know this Quranic verse:
Qur'an:8:12 "I(Prophet Muhammad) shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

[elleX0]

Why? Do I need to counter your posts???
Sorry, don't feel like working on my days off.

That is an excellent reply. Thank you!

[Jarhier]

All Muslim memorise the Quran. That is what they know and that is what guides their actions. All Muslims submit to the will of Allah and listen to the Imams. I bet 99% Muslims know this Quranic verse:
Qur'an:8:12 "I(Prophet Muhammad) shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

what religion are you? you seem to be fixated on islam.

all abrahamic religions have violent past. you shouldn't be so selective.

[elleX0]

what religion are you? you seem to be fixated on islam.

all abrahamic religions have violent past. you shouldn't be so selective.

Moses saw the Burning Bush in 1314 BC.
Jesus died 0 AD
Muhammad b 570 d 632 AD

Judaism and Christianity have modernised. Islam remains in the 7th century. That is why their philosophies of the 2 faiths have changed beyond recognition in the 21 century except for Islam. So modern Judaism and Christianity do not bring with them the baggage of "violent past."

Jarhier, I know about Christianity (some), Judaism (less), Islam (a lot), Ahmadiyya (a lot), Buddhism (much), Taoism (some), because I compare religious ideologies and I want to know what makes people hate and kill and others to love and cherish. I know a lot about Islam because there are so many myths and dissimulations being told to me that I have to confirm for myself and have found a lot of myths that have to be dispelled. I also know about science, and its effects on religions and can discuss that too but not many people know about cosmology. Is it wrong for me to be knowledgeable about Islam? Or Christianity, or Buddhism or Taoism or Judaism?
Now what else do you want to know, just google "mbplee" that is my "nom de plume." I have written about many subjects and it is all FREE on the WEB.