Do Indonesians onsider themselves as part of the "Malay Race" Options

[ocrapdm]

Hi!

Do Indonesians, particularly the Javanese, Sundanese, Sumatrans, Dayaks, Madurese, Sasak, Timorese, Ambonese, etc, consider themselves part of the "Malay race"? Or do you rather want to be called as "Austronesian race", as most Filipinos now want. (Austronesian race encompasses the brown-skinned inhabitants of Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, and all of the Pacific Islanders).

Uhm, Betawi people are Javanese or Sundanese?

[alfan]

betawi is a separate ethnic group from Javanese or Sundanese

[Bhaskara]

We do consider ourselves as a part of a bigger race that speaks Austronesian languages and dialects, which encompasses Taiwan, Malay Peninsula, Madagascar, Indonesian Arhipelago, Philippines Archipelago, and some islands in the Pacific.

However, we consider "Malay" as only the name of an ethnicity in that big family, in the same position as Batak, Ifugao, Dayak, Sundanese, Javanese, etc. So for us, Malay people are the ethnicity people who live in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei, and some Indonesian provinces on eastern Sumatra coast and West Kalimantan. So when we are talking about ethnicities in Indonesia, we will say there are Javanese, Sundanese, Buginese, various Dayak ethnicities, various Batak ethnicities, Banjarese, Malay, etc.

In fact, Malay people are only a minority in Indonesia (3,4%). It's one of the reason why we adopt Riau Malay language as the base of our national language, because if it was the language of the majority (that'd be Javanese, 41,7% of total population), it would cause problems and dissatisfactions.

So until there is another agreeable new name for the race (like Tai-Kadai, or Mon-Khmer), I agree with calling it "Asutronesian race"

[singapak2]

^ Malay language was chosen as the national language of Indonesia also because in this region, people from Malaysia, Singapore, were speaking Malay language. So this can help with people from Indonesia to communicate easily and improve business opportunities with Singaporeans, Malaysians, Brunei-ans.

How i wish there is a language called, Bahasa Astronesia..

[ocrapdm]

Betawi are natives of Indonesia?? Some guidebooks say that Betawi people are "descendants of laborers brought in by the Dutch from various parts of Southeast Asia", while some say that they are descendants of mixed Chinese, mainland Southeast Asian, Javanese, and Sundanese people...

[Graham_Cracker07]

Filipinos still call themselves Malays. I bet that most have never heard of the term "Austronesian"

[jokotarub]

Do Indonesians, particularly the Javanese, Sundanese, Sumatrans, Dayaks, Madurese, Sasak, Timorese, Ambonese, etc, consider themselves part of the "Malay race"? Or do you rather want to be called as "Austronesian race", as most Filipinos now want. (Austronesian race encompasses the brown-skinned inhabitants of Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, and all of the Pacific Islanders).

And what does Malay race include?

Malay language was chosen as the national language of Indonesia also because in this region, people from Malaysia, Singapore, were speaking Malay language. So this can help with people from Indonesia to communicate easily and improve business opportunities with Singaporeans, Malaysians, Brunei-ans.

Absolute crap. At the time Malay Riau language was chosen as Indonesian national language, Malaysia and Singapore were not around yet --had not been dreamed of yet, even. It was when Malay states in Malay Peninsula was still divided between those "advised" by British Residents and not, and your Singapore was governed as one (of four) part of a British crown colony, without a single idea of a nation let alone a national language.
As for improving business opportunities, everybody knows most of those Malaysians and Singaporeans talking about real, big time business opportunities would rather talk in their ancestral language --not Malay-- anyway, and so only Indonesians of similar descent who are still able to speak that language may enjoy any advantage (thus fluency in Indonesian or any Malay languages or creoles doesn't count).

This post has been edited by jokotarub: Jan 15 2008, 12:25 PM

[kelapa]

And what does Malay race include?

Is there 'Malay race' ?? See :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_race. It is merely political concept now, not anthropological one anymore. Anthropologically, the Malays (in the sense that people who live in southern part of Indochina and the archipelago) are of mixture in origins. The so called mulatos or mestizos in Latin America. We should stop thinking 'race' as political concept or to be applied in political discourse. It is easily manipulated.

[jokotarub]

^^In Malaysia I know for sure it's a political concept, but so what? They can have it as that but we, too, can give it other meanings. As if they hold the copyright for "Malay" (maybe they do, considering what they did to us recently ). IMHO, political concept can always be redefined, and neutral term can always be politicized. Someday we might wake up and find that "Austronesian race" is already politically loaded.
Anyways, the thread starter differentiates between "Malay race" and "Austronesian race" but giving explanation only for the latter, so I'd like to know what the meaning of the former to him, esp. because he's not Malaysian.

[Graham_Cracker07]

^ I dunno what Malay means to others, but for Filipinos it's like a racial term that includes most of the population of the Philippines. It's basically the brown-skinned ppl. Filipinos also recognize that Indonesians and Malaysians are also part of the "Malay race."

This post has been edited by Graham_Cracker07: Jan 15 2008, 05:30 PM

[speedygonzalez2]

Native Filipino = Malay = Brown

hence the term

Filipino Malay

[jokotarub]

(Austronesian race encompasses the brown-skinned inhabitants of Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, and all of the Pacific Islanders).

Malay...'s like a racial term that includes most of the population of the Philippines. It's basically the brown-skinned ppl.

Malay = Brown

Thank you. What's the difference again? Anyone?

[Graham_Cracker07]

Malays are the brown-skinned ppl who inhabit the Malay Archipelago. Austronesian is a wider group of ppl that encompasses Taiwanese Aborigines, people of the Malay Archipelago, Pacific Islands, and Madagascar. They all speak Austronesian languages.

[Bhaskara]

There's no telling what Betawi is because I don't think they were acknowledged as an ethnicity before the 19th century. For sure, they are a mix of ethnicities. Before, the natives of Jakarta was the Sundanese (Jakarta's old name is Sunda Kelapa). You can still find remnants of Sundanese culture in Betawi's, such as Betawi's Yapong which stems from Sundanese Jaipong.

Anyway, you all know where I stand on this one.

[HangPC2]

Malays are the brown-skinned ppl who inhabit the Malay Archipelago. Austronesian is a wider group of ppl that encompasses Taiwanese Aborigines, people of the Malay Archipelago, Pacific Islands, and Madagascar. They all speak Austronesian languages.

Original Script Of Fei Xin's Xin Cha Shen Lan (Description Of The Starry Raft)





Fei Xin's description of Malacca



Fei Xin (Chinese: ??) was the Ming dynasty admiral Zheng He's translator. In his Description of the Starry Raft (1436), early Malacca was included.

He noted that Malacca people which was the Malays had "their skin resembled black lacquer, but there were some white-skinned people among them who are of ethnic Tang. Men and women appeared in mallet-like chignon hair style, simple and kind lifestyle, they fish at rivers and at sea. The coastal village was inhabited by very few peoples and was not ruled by any neighboring kingdoms. The only produce of Malacca was tin, from a river. Tins obtained from river were fired into tin block (konwn as Tin ingot) where each weigh 1.4 jin. Malacca paid annual 40 golds to Siam as tax..

[kelapa]

^^In Malaysia I know for sure it's a political concept, but so what? They can have it as that but we, too, can give it other meanings. As if they hold the copyright for "Malay" (maybe they do, considering what they did to us recently ). IMHO, political concept can always be redefined, and neutral term can always be politicized. Someday we might wake up and find that "Austronesian race" is already politically loaded.

The thread's focus becomes blurred. Let us back from the beginning. TS asked about Malay race. So, we talk about race. An anthropological concept. We should not confuse this with political charge. Simply race, physical and genetical. Of course, people of the southern archipelago have darker skin, curlier hair and different physical features than northern chinese, for instance. This happened due to movement of people through the archipelago.

First came the ancestor of australian aborigines and the papuans through mainland SEA. We may find them in a "pure" condition in inner part of Malaysia, the Negritos, people of Andaman, New Guinea, and Australia. They left some cave drawing in Borneo which showed similarity and tradition with the australian Aborigines and some Melanesian tribes. This supposed to be started 35000 years ago. Remember that at that time Sumatra, Java and Borneo (and may be Palawan) still attached to mainland Asia.

And then came the ancestor of Austronesian people from Formosa around 12 000 years ago. The experts hypothesised that these people came from mainland China, and they related to the Tai-Kadai (Austro-Asiatic) speaking people who now live in southern Cina and most part of Indochina. The movement is to south, to the Philippines. From this, second wave separated, to east and to south. To east they met with certain Melanesian, intermarriage, hence language and some 'different' physical features than western Austronesian. This continued to Hawaii, Rapanui and NZ (Aotearoa). To south, to Borneo and Celebes.

From Celebes there was 3rd movement to the east, resulting in people of Moluccas, West Papua (again, intermating with the Melanesian) and eastern Nusa Tenggara. From Borneo there were settlements already, but then 4th wave to south and west, inhabiting Sumatra, Java, Malayan peninsula. Here, they met with their "old cousins", the Austro-Asiatic. After the Indian influence came (supposed to be 1st century BC) the movement tended to stop. Some groups from Borneo, however, left west until reaching Madagascar. In Sumatra, Malayan Peninsula and Java we can trace some features contributed from Indian people (Caucasoids). Not to mention the Chinese who came earlier and intermating with the locals.

So, what is Malay race? A group of people with mixture origin deserve to be called 'race'? Just because we use malay as lingua-franca made us belong to the same race ?

The confusion also arose with the 'Austronesian race'. I would prefer called them 'Austronesian(-speaking) people, instead of Austronesian race. The term Austronesia in the beginning was used as a linguistic concept. Yes, now there are some people use this as cultural and geological term. But 'Austronesian race' is certainly invalid. Someone who starts to politizing 'Austronesian race' has the parallel motive like Hitler with his 'Aryan race'.

After all, why we still bother to differ ourselves based on physical appearance? As an Indonesian, I found that the question basically irrelevant to Indonesia. We realised that we are physically different, but we almost never think about from what race I am, you are, he is or they are. Indonesians tend to accept interethnical marriage openly now.

This post has been edited by kelapa: Jan 16 2008, 07:23 PM

[tangawizi]

So is the concept of "Malay" artificially forged by the neo-nationalists in Malaysia???

Would a "Javanese" or "Papuan" or "Orang asli" consider themselves as "Malay"? And vice versa, would a "Malay" consider themselves as "Javanese" or "Papuan" or "Orang asli"?

What strikes me about this topic is that one can say "Chinese" or "Turkic" peoples and we know clearly and have no quarrels about who constitutes the Chinese or Turkic peoples. But when it comes to the Malay peoples, it seems that there is alot of confusion and quarrels due to the ethnic differences.

[tangawizi]

Ok, a source of clarification from Wiki (probably written by a malay) seems to confirm my suspicion that the term "Malay" is a neo-nationalistic movement to redefine the Malaysian Malay's identity:

The concept of a Malay race (Malay: Bangsa Melayu) was proposed by the German scientist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach (1752-1840).[1] Since Blumenbach, many anthropologists have rejected his theory of five races, citing the enormous complexity of classifying races. However, the term Malay is still often used in this context, and it is the basis for Malay identity within the Malaysian nation.

Malays (Malay: Melayu) are an ethnic group of Austronesian peoples predominantly inhabiting the Malay Peninsula and parts of Sumatra and Borneo. The Malay ethnic group is distinct from the concept of a Malay race, which encompasses a wider group of people, including most of Indonesia and the Philippines. The Malay language is a member of the Austronesian family of languages.

*

History

The Malay people are believed to have originated in Borneo and then expanded outwards into Sumatra and later into the Malay Peninsula. These people were descendants of Austronesian-speakers who migrated from the Philippines and originally from Taiwan. The main foundation of this school of thought lies in the fact that the oldest Malay settlements have been discovered in Sumatra and not in the Malay Peninsula. This suggests an upward - south to north - migratory route. Malay culture reached its golden age during Srivijayan times. Malays praticed Buddhism, Hinduism, and their native Animism before converting to Islam in the 15th century.

Etymology

According to the History of Jambi, the word Melayu originated from a river with name Melayu River near to Batang Hari River of today's Muara Jambi, Jambi province of Sumatra, Indonesia. The founder of Malacca, Parameswara was a prince of Palembang which was once owned by a nation called "Malayu" back in the seventh century. Yi Jing (635-713) clearly recorded in his journal book a nation of name 'Ma-La-Yu' existed. According to archaeological research of Jambi, large numbers of ancient artifacts and ancient architectures of Melayu have been found with photo evidence.

The word "Malay" was adopted into English via the Dutch word "Malayo", itself from Portuguese "Malaio", which originates from the Malay word "Melayu". According to one popular theory, the word Melayu means "migrating" or "fleeing", which might refer to the high mobility of these people across the region.

Another theory holds that the name refers to the Tamil word Malai Yur which means "Land of Mountains" (malai means mountain and yur means land), a reference to the hilly nature of the Malay Archipelago.

Alternate uses of the term

The name Malay is sometimes used to describe the concept of a Malay race, which includes all the ethnic groups inhabiting the Malay Archipelago and which are not of older aboriginal stock.

The term Melayu (Malay person in the Malay Language), in the Federal Constitution of Malaysia, refers to a person who practices Islam and Malay customs, habitually speaks the Malay language, and whose ancestors are Malays. Despite not having Malay ancestry, a Eurasian, Chinese, Indian, European, Arab, Turk or Afghan can be considered Malay in Malaysia if he or she practices Malay culture and habitually speaks Malay together with practising Islam.



Ethnic group vs. cultural sphere

The term "Malay" can refer to the ethnic group who live in the Malay peninsula (which include the southernmost part of Thailand called Patani and Satun) and east Sumatra as well as the cultural sphere that encompass a large part of the archipelago.

The Malay ethnic group is the majority in Malaysia and Brunei and a sizable minority in Singapore and Indonesia. This people speak various dialects of Malay language. The peninsular dialect is the standard speech among Malays in Malaysia and Singapore. Meanwhile, the Riau dialect of eastern Sumatra has been adopted as a national tongue, Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia), for the whole Indonesian population.[citation needed] The ethnic Malay have had a Muslim culture since the 15th century.[7]

In Malaysia, the majority of the population is made up of ethnic Malays while the minorities consist of southern Chinese (e.g. Hokkien and Cantonese), southern Indians (mainly Tamils), non-ethnic Malay indigenous peoples (e.g. Iban and Kadazan), as well as Eurasians.

Malay cultural influences filtered out throughout the archipelago, such as the monarchical state, religion (Hinduism/Buddhism in the first millennium AD, Islam in the second millennium), and the Malay language. The influential Srivijaya kingdom had unified the various ethnic groups in southeast Asia into a convergent cultural sphere for almost a millennium. It was during that time that vast borrowing of Sanskrit words and concepts facilitated the advanced linguistic development of Malay as a language. Malay was the regional lingua franca, and Malay-based creole languages existed in most trading ports in Indonesia.

All of that above seems like the work of neo-nationalists. It's very narrow view without discussing the Indonesian point of view whatsoever on the concept of Malay identity.

Seems to me like the neo-nationalists are trying to reconstruct the Malay identity with effect from 15th century onwards where the local indigeneous cultures began to experience the effects of islamization. Prior to the 15th century, they seem to have no interest whatsover on acknowledging the Hindu/Buddhist influences on their civilization whereas such ancient influences are still acknowledged by Indonesian school of thoughts... see this article of Indonesian Philosophy which lists the school of thoughts that have influenced the Indonesian identity (Ethnic, Chinese, Indian, Islamic, Western, Christian).


In Malaysia, there's a total whitewash on the other school of thoughts, the only dominant school of thought allowed to influence the discourse of the Malay identity seem to be just the Islamic school.. what do u think of this observation? It seems to me that Indonesia has wider capacity to absorb influences on their national identity and accept racial and ethnic differences in their midst, whereas Malaysia has difficulties doing the same due to a narrow vision of history or perhaps an existential fear of 'extinction of the Malays'. I read a pantun yesterday that had been sung in the early days of colonial independence which bemoans the fact that the Malays are being trampled like grass by the other races.

[singapak2]

I think many people have nvr even heard of the term Astronesian.

[Bhaskara]

To tell you the truth, I couldn't care less what Malaysians want to call their people. So they got their own definition, and we have our own. I began to get irritated when they claim things that are originated in Indonesia as their own, in the name of "Malay race", because all of us are "Malay race" to their definition, then everything owned by an ethnicity of "Malay race" could be claimed by other ethnicity of "Malay race".

What I don't understand is, why do they have to do that? Don;t they have any pride in their Malay heritage? Malay ethnicity in Indonesia will proudly exhibit their pantun, zapin, mak yong etc when asked to display their heritage. But it seems to me that the Malays in Malaysia don't feel that their own heritage is enough. Malaysian artist took moves from Balinese dance and shamelessly brought it to international event.

This is really shameful because not only the Balinese got nothing to do with the Malay (unlike the Javanese, as there are a lot of Malaysians of Javanese ancestry), it's also an irony considering Malay Malaysian despised the Balinese, calling them idol-worshipers and other ugly things.