the existence of Catholic God, Does Catholic God really exist? Options

[susan12]

Hey guys,

I have joined in the discussion of the bad priests forum. It bring me to this question that whether God is really exist.

I have a doubt in believing God is existed as what Catholic claimed she to be - all mighty, all knowning, and all kind. So far the sexual abuse by Catholic priests cases around the world is so serious ( more than 10,000 cases so far) and the Vatican keep cover them up. Where is the God, why does she do something to punish those bad priests who do harm to the children and victims?


What about you guys comment? Believe in God or don't ?
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When a crime happens, the church and all the priests cover it up. God, this is Vatican order!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3157555.stm

How many crimes so far committed by the Catholic church priests?!! God, the answers shock you! I heard is up to more than 10,000 not included the silent cases ( majorities)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/02/16/church.abuse/

What is the feeling of the victimd!! SAd SAD sad!!
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/

How serious is the crime of the Catholic priests and Vatican cover up? God, serious until the United Nation has to step in.


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Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest


From Richard Owen in Rome

AN ITALIAN judge has ordered a priest to appear in court this month to prove that Jesus Christ existed.
The case against Father Enrico Righi has been brought in the town of Viterbo, north of Rome, by Luigi Cascioli, a retired agronomist who once studied for the priesthood but later became a militant atheist.
Signor Cascioli, author of a book called The Fable of Christ, began legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago after the priest denounced Signor Cascioli in the parish newsletter for questioning Christ’s historical existence.
Yesterday Gaetano Mautone, a judge in Viterbo, set a preliminary hearing for the end of this month and ordered Father Righi to appear. The judge had earlier refused to take up the case, but was overruled last month by the Court of Appeal, which agreed that Signor Cascioli had a reasonable case for his accusation that Father Righi was “abusing popular credulity”.
Signor Cascioli’s contention — echoed in numerous atheist books and internet sites — is that there was no reliable evidence that Jesus lived and died in 1st-century Palestine apart from the Gospel accounts, which Christians took on faith. There is therefore no basis for Christianity, he claims.
Signor Cascioli’s one-man campaign came to a head at a court hearing last April when he lodged his accusations of “abuse of popular credulity” and “impersonation”, both offences under the Italian penal code. He argued that all claims for the existence of Jesus from sources other than the Bible stem from authors who lived “after the time of the hypothetical Jesus” and were therefore not reliable witnesses.
Signor Cascioli maintains that early Christian writers confused Jesus with John of Gamala, an anti-Roman Jewish insurgent in 1st-century Palestine. Church authorities were therefore guilty of “substitution of persons”.
The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius mention a “Christus” or “Chrestus”, but were writing “well after the life of the purported Jesus” and were relying on hearsay.
Father Righi said there was overwhelming testimony to Christ’s existence in religious and secular texts. Millions had in any case believed in Christ as both man and Son of God for 2,000 years.
“If Cascioli does not see the sun in the sky at midday, he cannot sue me because I see it and he does not,” Father Righi said.

[Jasel]

you're going to be VERY popular in the section I'm going to direct your topic too


Have fun

[Eendje]

i dont think "He" exists. Humans created god as an excuse for not being able to understand "mysterious" stuff.

[susan12]

i dont think "He" exists. Humans created god as an excuse for not being able to understand "mysterious" stuff.

That is logical. Human went up to the sky and don't found God! Where is God?

[susan12]

you're going to be VERY popular in the section I'm going to direct your topic too
Have fun

Thanks.

[Eendje]

its only a matter of time till those god fanatics come here and whine about "why did stuff x happen, and why this and that"

[k3n5i]

Catholic God? ---> same as protestant, baptist, and other christians' God....

the existence of God? .... if you have faith then you know what's the answer ^_^
anyways the vatican represents for me like a country's corrupt government XD... like you know politics people has always something hidden udner their sleeves ...
well like no human is perfect.. right? EVERYONE sins... yes even the pope ... and well this is because we always fall under satan's "works"... and also remember that God is forgiving and that he loves you NO MATTER WHAT... so God punishing those bad priests? punishing us all sinners? heck no :P but it doesnt mean that its ok we can sin since God is forgiving.... lolz doesnt work that way..

anyways why would my faith diminish just because these people (the priests) that r supposed to be a role model to us sin? ...

[skepticguy]

I don't understand.

Are you questioning the existence of God based upon the actions of a sect of believers in this God?

If so, you've got one massive non sequitur cooking, sweetheart!

[susan12]

Catholic God? ---> same as protestant, baptist, and other christians' God....

the existence of God? .... if you have faith then you know what's the answer ^_^
anyways the vatican represents for me like a country's corrupt government XD... like you know politics people has always something hidden udner their sleeves ...
well like no human is perfect.. right? EVERYONE sins... yes even the pope ... and well this is because we always fall under satan's "works"... and also remember that God is forgiving and that he loves you NO MATTER WHAT... so God punishing those bad priests? punishing us all sinners? heck no :P but it doesnt mean that its ok we can sin since God is forgiving.... lolz doesnt work that way..

anyways why would my faith diminish just because these people (the priests) that r supposed to be a role model to us sin? ...

Faith or Blind Faith ?

Blind faith is deadly. Like those victims abused by the bad priests. I believe only one reason - Blind faith.

Some how we have to question. Why?
1. As our knowledge grow, we found something the church tell us for thousand years seems so doubtful.
2. We also found that the church leaders don't behave the way they talk to us.
They talk one way and behave the other way. Should we continuous to believe and to donate our money to support them? Remember, all the church money come from people donations. In the other word, we use our money to feed them.
3. If we don't doubt and question, then the bad priests population will definitely continuous to grow. As a result who will be the victim - Us and our children?

Can we learn without questioning? The answer is no!!
the same goes to
Can we have faith without questioning? The answer is NO No No!!!

[three_kingdoms]

Im glad I don't go to a white church.

[susan12]

I don't understand.

Are you questioning the existence of God based upon the actions of a sect of believers in this God?

If so, you've got one massive non sequitur cooking, sweetheart! 

If God creates the universe , then who creates God?

Um...

Science has already proven that things existing due to Evolution!!!

[skepticguy]

If God creates the universe , then who creates God?

Um...

Science has already proven that things existing due to Evolution!!!

You are misreading me (as I may be misreading you).

I'm not asserting that there is a god. I'm merely trying to find out if one of the reasons you don't believe in a god (particularly the "Catholic God") is because of the actions of this deity's believers.

It seems to me that you are complaining (rightly so) about the actions of some of the Church's priests. Furthermore, you seem to be asserting that because these priests misbehave (and the Church covers it up) that therefore the "Catholic God" does not exist. Is this what you are saying with your opening post?

[susan12]

You are misreading me (as I may be misreading you).

I'm not asserting that there is a god. I'm merely trying to find out if one of the reasons you don't believe in a god (particularly the "Catholic God") is because of the actions of this deity's believers.

It seems to me that you are complaining (rightly so) about the actions of some of the Church's priests. Furthermore, you seem to be asserting that because these priests misbehave (and the Church covers it up) that therefore the "Catholic God" does not exist. Is this what you are saying with your opening post?

The action of the huge number of bad priests make me begin to question about the existence of God.

God is all mighty, all knowing and benevolence. If so, how could those evil acts caused by his followers(huge number of followers) exist for such long years ( century, or more we don't know because the church cover them up).
God will stop it or at least lessen it by his mighty power. But the fact is not. Why?

[skepticguy]

The action of the huge number of bad priests make me begin to question about the existence of God.

It shouldn't. A deity's existence is not predicated on the actions of its believers. That's simply a fallacy. The deity could exist independent of the actions of its followers.

God is all mighty, all knowing and benevolence. If so, how could those evil acts caused by his followers(huge number of followers) exist for such long years ( century, or more we don't know because the church cover them up).
God will stop it or at least lessen it by his mighty power. But the fact is not. Why?

Because, believers will tell you, "this world" has been handed over to the Prince of Darkness. He has been allowed a certain amount of time to rule the earth. "Soon," they say, God will step in with his divine justice and stop all this evil. But that is God's plan, not ours. We cannot understand his ways.

At least that's what they will tell you.

[skepticguy]

Sorry....server hiccup. Double post.

This post has been edited by skepticguy: Jan 17 2006, 07:41 PM

[Happy Asian]

A Catholic God exist in every sick peadophile.

[RedStarOverChina]

Catholic God, Islamic God, Jewish God.

"Which ghost is more imaginary"?

[susan12]

A Catholic God exist in every sick peadophile.

Those Catholic priests in THE NAME OF GOD fool us for too long.
They go everywhere ( almost every country) fool people to donate the money and land to them. We donate the money for the poor, but go into their(Vatican and church) pocket. In return, vatican and the priests sexual abuse OUR Children.

Maybe there is a God, but just this God isn't as powerful and kind as what they claimed!!!

[susan12]

Catholic God, Islamic God, Jewish God.

"Which ghost is more imaginary"?

I agree with you that IT IS THE TIME TO REBEL after knowning what all they Catholic priests have done to harm Children around the world.

Blind faith isn't good enough. If we still go on without questioning, one day Vatican will rule the world. 2

[susan12]

It shouldn't. A deity's existence is not predicated on the actions of its believers. That's simply a fallacy. The deity could exist independent of the actions of its followers.
Because, believers will tell you, "this world" has been handed over to the Prince of Darkness. He has been allowed a certain amount of time to rule the earth. "Soon," they say, God will step in with his divine justice and stop all this evil. But that is God's plan, not ours. We cannot understand his ways.

At least that's what they will tell you. 

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So how did those priests and church tell about this???

CBS NEWS

40 year Old Secret Document? Sex Crimes Cover-Up By Vatican?



For decades, priests in this country abused children in parish after parish while their superiors covered it all up. Now it turns out the orders for this cover up were written in Rome at the highest levels of the Vatican.

CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales has uncovered a church document kept secret for 40 years.

The confidential Vatican document, obtained by CBS News, lays out a church policy that calls for absolute secrecy when it comes to sexual abuse by priests - anyone who speaks out could be thrown out of the church.

The policy was written in 1962 by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani.

The document, once "stored in the secret archives" of the Vatican, focuses on crimes initiated as part of the confessional relationship and what it calls the "worst crime": sexual assault committed by a priest" or "attempted by him with youths of either sex or with brute animals."

Bishops are instructed to pursue these cases "in the most secretive way...restrained by a perpetual silence...and everyone {including the alleged victim) ...is to observe the strictest secret, which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office...under the penalty of excommunication."