What happened to SAIC which stole technology from SSangyong Options

[kit4]

Well,first of all,I am not Korean.I swear.(I am not trying to disguise as a non-Korean.if u guys read my previous posts,u will know my race)However,I love Korean culture and of course K-pop.I am one of those who is affected by K-wave.And,what is more,I do not like china companies as all they want is money and do whatever it takes to get more and more money(Take china milk scandal for instance) After reading news about technological theft by SAIC, I am saying to myself that another china company is doing a dirty thing by stealing technology from a korea company. Even if SAIC denies,I will never believe these chinese liar companies.It is good that it was charged by the Prosecutor office. I just want to know what happen after this.Does SAIC hvae to pay fines or what? If anyone has infomation on it,please share in this post.your opinions are much appreciated too.my opinion is that SAIC should be punished for its ulterior motives and don't let china companies steal technology developed by Koreans with their sweat and blood.China has a larger number of population,more human and natural resources than Korea.It is a shame that they still want to steal the technology. Should they are indeed upright,they should be ashamed of themselves.

[mytwocents]

Well,first of all,I am not Korean.I swear.(I am not trying to disguise as a non-Korean.if u guys read my previous posts,u will know my race)However,I love Korean culture and of course K-pop.I am one of those who is affected by K-wave.And,what is more,I do not like china companies as all they want is money and do whatever it takes to get more and more money(Take china milk scandal for instance) After reading news about technological theft by SAIC, I am saying to myself that another china company is doing a dirty thing by stealing technology from a korea company. Even if SAIC denies,I will never believe these chinese liar companies.It is good that it was charged by the Prosecutor office. I just want to know what happen after this.Does SAIC hvae to pay fines or what? If anyone has infomation on it,please share in this post.your opinions are much appreciated too.my opinion is that SAIC should be punished for its ulterior motives and don't let china companies steal technology developed by Koreans with their sweat and blood.China has a larger number of population,more human and natural resources than Korea.It is a shame that they still want to steal the technology. Should they are indeed upright,they should be ashamed of themselves.

Here's my two bits on this. I'm a Korean myself. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Shanghai Motors bought out Ssangyong in 2006. Therefore isn't it logical to assume that they were also buying the technology that Ssangyong had? If LG had bought out Zenith in the 1990's and used Zenith's technology, is that same as stealing from themselves? If I'm buying a business, am I not also buying its processes, its technology, as well as market share? If I'm wrong about this, I hope somebody correct me, because I'm confused about the whole controversy that Ssangyong workers are complaining about.

Ssangyong is a big SUV making company. SUV's in the days of oil shocks are not going to do well. Plus many of their technology are dubious. They were using Mercedes built engines. The hybrid technology that they were developing were not anything special. What killed Ssangyong is their lack of future foresight (not developing fuel efficient cars), and a suicidal violent militant unions who destroyed their own manufacturing facilities. This company should really be left to fail and die and disappear if they are not competitive in the market place. Instead, they are propped up by Korean tax payer's money - sort of like how GM and Chrysler are saved by the US government at the expense of US tax payers.

[SantaKlaws]

Here's my two bits on this. I'm a Korean myself. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Shanghai Motors bought out Ssangyong in 2006. Therefore isn't it logical to assume that they were also buying the technology that Ssangyong had? If LG had bought out Zenith in the 1990's and used Zenith's technology, is that same as stealing from themselves? If I'm buying a business, am I not also buying its processes, its technology, as well as market share? If I'm wrong about this, I hope somebody correct me, because I'm confused about the whole controversy that Ssangyong workers are complaining about.

Ssangyong is a big SUV making company. SUV's in the days of oil shocks are not going to do well. Plus many of their technology are dubious. They were using Mercedes built engines. The hybrid technology that they were developing were not anything special. What killed Ssangyong is their lack of future foresight (not developing fuel efficient cars), and a suicidal violent militant unions who destroyed their own manufacturing facilities. This company should really be left to fail and die and disappear if they are not competitive in the market place. Instead, they are propped up by Korean tax payer's money - sort of like how GM and Chrysler are saved by the US government at the expense of US tax payers.

It was laid out in the contract that SSAIC wouldn't be taking away technology in order to prevent just exactly what has transpired - leaving after taking the tech. Also, the technology that SSAIC stole was conducted with government funding, which entails additional breaches of the law.

[mytwocents]

It was laid out in the contract that SSAIC wouldn't be taking away technology in order to prevent just exactly what has transpired - leaving after taking the tech. Also, the technology that SSAIC stole was conducted with government funding, which entails additional breaches of the law.

Oh I see. I didn't know that. But isn't it still Ssanyong's and K-government's fault for expecting the Chinese to stick to the letter of the contract? It's like leaving the fox to guard the chicken coop. That was fool hardy.

[Cha]

Blame the ex-president, Noh.
Btw, it's not just the technology. Jobs were moved to SSAIC in China, hence the Korean Ssangyong workers were unhappy.

[kit4]

Here's my two bits on this. I'm a Korean myself. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Shanghai Motors bought out Ssangyong in 2006. Therefore isn't it logical to assume that they were also buying the technology that Ssangyong had? If LG had bought out Zenith in the 1990's and used Zenith's technology, is that same as stealing from themselves? If I'm buying a business, am I not also buying its processes, its technology, as well as market share? If I'm wrong about this, I hope somebody correct me, because I'm confused about the whole controversy that Ssangyong workers are complaining about.

Ssangyong is a big SUV making company. SUV's in the days of oil shocks are not going to do well. Plus many of their technology are dubious. They were using Mercedes built engines. The hybrid technology that they were developing were not anything special. What killed Ssangyong is their lack of future foresight (not developing fuel efficient cars), and a suicidal violent militant unions who destroyed their own manufacturing facilities. This company should really be left to fail and die and disappear if they are not competitive in the market place. Instead, they are propped up by Korean tax payer's money - sort of like how GM and Chrysler are saved by the US government at the expense of US tax payers.

Oh,I see,I get what you are saying. Yup,as somone else metioned,K-government and Ssangyong should be blamed for trusting a china company too.They should know the way china companies operate.At the end of the day,they will take the technoloy,either legally or illegally.Just hope that Koreans and the government will learn lessons from this incident.Thank for your insight.Your view is balanced,unlike mine. I just could not stand the fact that China is stealing whatever technology useful for development and trying to claim as if China is the most supreme superpower. I always believe in this:just as the rise of china is indeed rapid and astonishing,so is the fall of china. What I say might be extreme because I am really irate at how china government and companies are helping the military government of my motherland to grow and survive!

[orange peel]

China doesn't claim its a superpower btw, China consistently calls its self a developing country, it's western media that makes up all this bs.

and I wasn't aware that China's propping up a military government in Singapore.

as for the technology theft thing, i've really nothing to say, if it's illegal then it's illegal, true alot of things Chinese do now adays is pretty distasteful but hopefully it'll get better as we get richer.

[xentradi97]

Stealing technology and absorbing technology via hostile take over can only go so far. China will learn eventually that they need to invest and grow their own thing rather than taking a shortcut. And it seems like they are slowly doing that. China now poised to be Science hub, publishing more papers on pure science than anyone else. How will that translate to industrial and military tech will be remained to be seen.

Ultimately in the game of industrial espionage, you can only blame the company that allowed the breach of security. If you're weak or complacent, you'll be used. Law of nature.

[xentradi97]

Blame the ex-president, Noh.
Btw, it's not just the technology. Jobs were moved to SSAIC in China, hence the Korean Ssangyong workers were unhappy.

Blame Noh? What for? He's not a god. President can't babysit every single company. If you want to blame someone, blame the management of Ssangyong. It's their poor management that allowed Chinese company to takeover.

I have the same stand for Ford, GM and Chevolet. I don't care how big they are. If they are failing because of poor management, best thing govt can do is to allow them to fail. Pave the way for healthier and stronger company to replace it under new management. Weed them out.

[Cha]

Blame Noh? What for? He's not a god. President can't babysit every single company. If you want to blame someone, blame the management of Ssangyong. It's their poor management that allowed Chinese company to takeover.

I have the same stand for Ford, GM and Chevolet. I don't care how big they are. If they are failing because of poor management, best thing govt can do is to allow them to fail. Pave the way for healthier and stronger company to replace it under new management. Weed them out.

Actually, Ssangyong's motor department was doing fine. The Chairman model was a hit in Korea. It was the other businesses of Ssangyong that made Noh sell the company to SAIC. It was after SAIC took control of Ssangyong that they started to build unpopular designs for their SUVs. If Ssangyong Motors just concentrated on luxury sedans like before, then the company would've been doing fine. It wasn't the original CEO's choice to sell it to SAIC, either. Noh sold the company to a Chinese one for political purposes. Samsung Motors was doing fine too. But KDJ (like Noh) didn't want the chaebols to gain too much power economy-wise.

I understand the other cases in which both presidents sold some of the big companies though. Those other big companies actually improved.

This post has been edited by Cha: Jan 27 2010, 02:11 AM

[xentradi97]

Actually, Ssangyong's motor department was doing fine. It was the other businesses of Ssangyong that made Noh sell the company to SAIC. It wasn't the original CEO's choice to sell it to SAIC.

I'm sorry Cha, but President or no president do not have power to interfere with a company management decision. We don't live in Park Chung Hee era, when president had such power. These days, company can tell the govt to F off.

Company answers to the CEO and a group of investors. It is their decision ultimately to sell the company or not. And they voted yes. Against the protest of workers and unions.

Right wing media spun it around and laid the blame on President Roh and his administration for failing to come to Ssangyong rescue. Rotten companies ought to let die. Instead of pumping money in like US or Japan to keep them on life support. It drains precious tax payers money and prevents new young healthy companies from rising up and taking over it.

Roh did the right thing. And he shouldn't be blamed for Ssangyong.

[watsupzz]

Actually, Ssangyong's motor department was doing fine. It was the other businesses of Ssangyong that made Noh sell the company to SAIC. It wasn't the original CEO's choice to sell it to SAIC.

Actually Ssangyong Motor was in trouble prior to 51% sell off to SAIC. They were looking for buyers.
We must know, SAIC wasn't only investor of Ssangyong Motor, 49% of share was owned by other investors who also didn't cared much about company other than stripping off company's R&D to make quick profit and went off.

South Korean government also had investment at Ssangyong Motor, so basically SAIC and other 3rd party investors deceived Ssangyong Motor and Korean government as they did not even pursuit developing new car models when engineering team at Ssangyong came up with new designs and new proposals then SAIC took their hard work and transferred to their Chinese factory, this was why SAIC was blamed as "tech thieve" and while other good investors were deceived by SAIC.

Ssangyong's workers' union always demanded pay rise and new contracts and SAIC was looking for opportunity to get out of Ssangyong since company wasn't making much profit for them as well they stripped off most of R&D works. Then, the global financial meltdown struck and company wasn't making any improvement (i.e. no new car model to sell - this was cunning plan made by Ssangyong investors like SAIC) which made good opportunity to get out of burden for SAIC.

At the last moment, SAIC and other investors asked South Korean government for bail out. This was problem because both SAIC and other investors knew they won't go far with this but went ahead asking bail out from other government. If South Korean govt bailed out Ssangyong, SAIC and other investors would have taken that money too.

South Korean govt auditors went to seize Ssangyong management after they've discovered that Ssangyong management was responsible for downfall of the company even with millions were injected by Government to revive troubled Motor company, but it was too late. Another stupid mistake made by South Korean government, SAIC fled with R&D. It was very shortsighted decision from SAIC because of this bad example, Chinese firms will not get further approvals from Korean government for future investment in South Korea.

Now, Ssangyong went restructuring which forced many workers to quit their jobs, but still in business because of existing market share.
Believe it or not Ssangyong Motor dealers still sell cars and Ssangyong is now producing newer car model thanks to government injected some much needed cash.

[Cha]

I'm sorry Cha, but President or no president do not have power to interfere with a company management decision. We don't live in Park Chung Hee era, when president had such power. These days, company can tell the govt to F off.

Roh did the right thing. And he shouldn't be blamed for Ssangyong.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? Why are you saying that he did the right thing when you said that he had nothing to do with it? The fact is, Noh was responsible for the selling of Ssangyong and KDJ was responsible for the others. Some went well and some didn't.

@ watsupzz,
I was stating what I heard from a client who works near the Ssangyong factory. He said that a large machine was taken out of the factory to be taken to China. That section of the factory was closed and a lot of jobs were lost. Of course, I can't prove this to you so I'll just stop here.

Actually Ssangyong Motor was in trouble prior to 51% sell off to SAIC. They were looking for buyers.
We must know, SAIC wasn't only investor of Ssangyong Motor, 49% of share was owned by other investors who also didn't cared much about company other than stripping off company's R&D to make quick profit and went off.

Where did you get this information? Like I stated before, the other departments of Ssangyong weren't doing well. The motor department was doing ok. Ssangyong used to manufacture other things besides vehicles. I think you're confusing this.

Believe it or not Ssangyong Motor dealers still sell cars and Ssangyong is now producing newer car model thanks to government injected some much needed cash.

I didn't say that they no longer sold cars. The point is that SAIC took the technology and the jobs to China, which I'm afraid too many people are ignoring. I actually don't blame SAIC since it's their company now. We should blame Noh for thinking that they would agree not to take the technology and the jobs.

This post has been edited by Cha: Jan 27 2010, 02:45 AM

[kit4]

China doesn't claim its a superpower btw, China consistently calls its self a developing country, it's western media that makes up all this bs.

and I wasn't aware that China's propping up a military government in Singapore.

as for the technology theft thing, i've really nothing to say, if it's illegal then it's illegal, true alot of things Chinese do now adays is pretty distasteful but hopefully it'll get better as we get richer.

Pardon me,since when I said my motherland is singapore? I am just an immigrant in singapore. You chinese from PRC do not know much about singapore. I have read a PRC chinese saying that singapore is a backward,impoverished country.u guys are just funny. Of course,china is getting richer. But I doubt china will be grateful to the countries from which they stole various technologies In fact,china will never try to become a role player in world affairs as all MOST chinese leaders have in mind is industrialization at any cost.They won't intervene unless their interests are threatened. It is how the PRC government works.Their mindset is not so much different from the military government of my motherland,MYANMAR.

[mytwocents]

What I say might be extreme because I am really irate at how china government and companies are helping the military government of my motherland to grow and survive!

Their mindset is not so much different from the military government of my motherland,MYANMAR.

Oh, that explains your resentment against China. But tell me about it. China's doing the same with North Korea!
Like you said, that's China - growth at all costs, damn the others, who cares about them. Myanmar and Korea are basically in the same boat vis a vie China because we both share a border with a super big country that's not going to be sympathetic to anybody except for those in power. There's not much anyone can do. But it doesn't mean we don't have the right to be displeased and complain.

[kit4]

Arr,this is just my curiousity. When SSangyong motors was looking for buyers,didn't any SK-based companies tried to compete with SAIC and buy stakes from SSangyong? I read at a website saying that POSCO or Samsung will buy most of the stakes from SSangyong soon. And,Is it possible to assume that SAIC bribed a high-ranking Korean official to get the job done? next 4 moths,I will have a project on The Rise of The East Asia business firms and their limitations on global busniess stage. I plan to include SSangyong motors incident in my project. If anyone know more about it,please provide me with more info and insights. At the same time,Thx in advance for upcoming posts.

This post has been edited by kit4: Jan 27 2010, 08:14 AM

[mytwocents]

Arr,this is just my curiousity. When SSangyong motors was looking for buyers,didn't any SK-based companies tried to compete with SAIC and buy stakes from SSangyong? I read at a website saying that POSCO or Samsung will buy most of the stakes from SSangyong soon. And,Is it possible to assume that SAIC bribed a high-ranking Korean official to get the job done? next 4 moths,I will have a project on The Rise of The East Asia business firms and their limitations on global busniess stage. I plan to include SSangyong motors incident in my project. If anyone know more about it,please provide me with more info and insights. At the same time,Thx in avance for upcoming posts.

I think Cha hit it on the nail. Korea's previous president Roh and his entire administration was a notorious pro China president. He even declared himself his ancestors were from China. Roh's government acquisisted in many areas of the economy to China giving favorable advantages to China. He tried hard to steer South Korea into the China-North Korea alliance, and away from the traditional alliance with the US. But he failed.

[kit4]

Oh, that explains your resentment against China. But tell me about it. China's doing the same with North Korea!
Like you said, that's China - growth at all costs, damn the others, who cares about them. Myanmar and Korea are basically in the same boat vis a vie China because we both share a border with a super big country that's not going to be sympathetic to anybody except for those in power. There's not much anyone can do. But it doesn't mean we don't have the right to be displeased and complain.

Of course,that is what I want to say.If the military government continues to rule in Myanmar which is abundantly rich in resources(Even Daewoo was one of three oil companies to operate in Myanmar natural gas field),sonner or later,my country will be absorbed by China.On top of that,china has been secretly supporting rebles groups to create a new civil war in which china will back up rebles group secretly,thereby giving a final blow to myanmar militray.In the end,guess what will happen? Strictly speaking,myanmar will become what Joseon dynasty was from 14A.D. to late 19A.D.Yet,stupid government do not know about it and still rely on china.They import myanmar natural products:rubies,teak,jade,natural gas. They are happy to deal with China government because china do not complain or raise an issue on human rights abuse. China is not intervening just because they are getting raw products at a cheaper price.I am not complaining.Just a way of telling people to guard themselves against this new unruly superpower. Educated and middle class people of Myanmar got sick with government and migrated to other countries,including me who migrated to singapore.U guys are lucky compared to us.South Korea already has a robust and big economy,the reliable government and Korea is at the forefront of digital world as well.Recently,I have read much about Hyundai-Kia rise too.That is,Korea is better prepared than Myanmar. We,middle-class and educated people, know of future doom and want to overthrow military as soon as possible.But china is blocking and making our attempts fruitless so far. Well,I plan to work for Samsung group too.I chose to specialise in east asia business firms out of attachment to south korea. going to learn Korean soon too.

This post has been edited by kit4: Jan 27 2010, 08:13 AM

[xentradi97]

Aren't you contradicting yourself? Why are you saying that he did the right thing when you said that he had nothing to do with it? The fact is, Noh was responsible for the selling of Ssangyong and KDJ was responsible for the others. Some went well and some didn't.

No. Only thing Roh can be blamed for is not coming to its rescue. Which many do blame him for it. And I'm saying he did the right thing and that downfall of Ssangyong wasn't his responsibility.

[xentradi97]

I think Cha hit it on the nail. Korea's previous president Roh and his entire administration was a notorious pro China president. He even declared himself his ancestors were from China. Roh's government acquisisted in many areas of the economy to China giving favorable advantages to China. He tried hard to steer South Korea into the China-North Korea alliance, and away from the traditional alliance with the US. But he failed.

I disagree. Global market is slowly shifting to Asia and that of China and India in particular. Pres. Chun Doo Hwan (though I criticize him for many things) knew it and did the right thing by normalizing the relations. Korea was already way too dependent on US market and every trade talk with US was met with one-sided bullying by Washington. And Korea had to take it again and again.

Today Korea enjoy billions of surplus in trade against China and no longer solely dependent on US market. Infact US market is no longer no. 1 trading partner with Korea. So yes, Roh did gave favorable advantage to China but it wasn't one way street. And when US economy collapsed, Korea was in much better position because it has diversified its market.

I command Lee MB for his recent trip to India strengthening ties and economic and military cooperation. This will again serve to both nations advantage and diversifying Korea's trading partner and market dependency once again.