Khamen is not Khom Options

[Bodyslam]

In thailand we call people who live in Cambodia is Khmen and Ccitizen of Old Khmer Empire we call "Khom".

An we do not belive to group of people is the same group.

We respect so much on "Khom" But Khmen.
Khom is something high, clever, but Khmen is different.

If you reserch on the history of Khmer Empire. The Empire had an immigrant from the Indian. The Bhram caste. The Bhram caste immigated from indian and settle in the land we call Cambodia now. In this land, there have their indiguous people who live here, uncivilize. But after Bhram create a Kingdom and later the Empre. They become a ruling caste.

The structure of Khmer Empire was like an Indian. There have a caste system, but it is not so strong like in India because of the influence from Budhist. The Bhram become ruling caste and indegous people become a farmer, slave, or serf.

When khmer Emire was collapsed by Siam. The siam army took the ruling caste of Khmer empire to Ayuthaya. That is why Ayutthaya had more influence from Khmer Empire.

The Khamen had a very weak link with the Old "Khom". They are a lower caste of Khmer society. Ofter the higher caste was gone. The Khamen in rural area and a distance areas create a new kingdom and the sucessor kingdom never success like a Khmer Empire. Because the are not as good as quality like the old one. That is why Khamen is very weak. However, they have seen his master glorius day. Most of them dream about the glorius day that they had been live with their master, "Khom".

That is why Siam pay restpect on Khom never Khamen.

[menghuy]

In thailand we call people who live in Cambodia is Khmen and Ccitizen of Old Khmer Empire we call "Khom".

An we do not belive to group of people is the same group.

We respect so much on "Khom" But Khmen.
Khom is something high, clever, but Khmen is different.

If you reserch on the history of Khmer Empire. The Empire had an immigrant from the Indian. The Bhram caste. The Bhram caste immigated from indian and settle in the land we call Cambodia now. In this land, there have their indiguous people who live here, uncivilize. But after Bhram create a Kingdom and later the Empre. They become a ruling caste.

The structure of Khmer Empire was like an Indian. There have a caste system, but it is not so strong like in India because of the influence from Budhist. The Bhram become ruling caste and indegous people become a farmer, slave, or serf.

When khmer Emire was collapsed by Siam. The siam army took the ruling caste of Khmer empire to Ayuthaya. That is why Ayutthaya had more influence from Khmer Empire.

The Khamen had a very weak link with the Old "Khom". They are a lower caste of Khmer society. Ofter the higher caste was gone. The Khamen in rural area and a distance areas  create a new kingdom and  the sucessor kingdom never success like a Khmer Empire. Because the are not as good as quality like the old one. That is why Khamen is very weak. However, they have seen his master glorius day. Most of them dream about the glorius day that they had been live with their master, "Khom".

That is why Siam pay restpect on Khom never Khamen.

yeah right! siam and thai are not the same.

[Virvs]

In thailand we call people who live in Cambodia is Khmen and Ccitizen of Old Khmer Empire we call "Khom".

Oh, now I know where did the Vietnamese word "Cao Mien" derive from. Perhaps it's from "Kh-men" --> "Kao Men" --> "Cao Mien", a mere transliteration (? - is it the right word?).

It is therefore obvious that Vietnamese calling Khmers "Mien" is not offending any bit.

[Bodyslam]

menghuy, it is true . Siam and Thai is the the same. Siam is the old name of the country. Thai is the name of the race who control siam. Siam is a group of people who live in Siam. Thai. Mon. Laos, Khmer ,Malay, Jam can be Siamese. Because Siam is an Empire. The Empire consist of many races. Thai is a ruling class and majority of tha people in Siam Empire. After we lose Laos, Cambodia, northern state of Malasia to Western countries. So we change our name of the country to Thailand. That is mean the Land of the Thai race only. We are realistic race. We are not live in the dream. We have to live with we have and develope our country which our remaining land. We are not dream to our old Siam Empire who control Laos, Cambodia and others areas.

[Bodyslam]

Virvs. may be it is the same word with khmen that the Thai call Cambodia.
If you go to Thailand and talk about Cambodia we called them Khmen, never Khmer.

If you see an old relic like a Prasart. We called it Prasart Khom.
There have nothing link with Cambodian or Khmen but Khom.

[transtic]

In thailand we call people who live in Cambodia is Khmen and Ccitizen of Old Khmer Empire we call "Khom".

Oh, now I know where did the Vietnamese word "Cao Mien" derive from. Perhaps it's from "Kh-men" --> "Kao Men" --> "Cao Mien", a mere transliteration (? - is it the right word?).

It is therefore obvious that Vietnamese calling Khmers "Mien" is not offending any bit.

That's right, like when Khmers call Vietnamese yuons, but Vietnamese people seem to get all antsy about it too. Mien, Khmer and Viet, Yuon are just names.

[Dara]

Hey, Thais also have the word "Yuan" too. So Vietnamese people shouldn't get mad only at Khmers for calling them Yuon, cos Thai people call them that too.

[transtic]

Virvs. may be it is the same word with khmen that the Thai call Cambodia.
If you go to Thailand and talk about Cambodia we called them Khmen, never Khmer.

If you see an old relic like a Prasart. We called it Prasart Khom.
There have nothing link with Cambodian or Khmen but Khom.

You do realise that the Thai spelling for Khmers is a direct transliteration of the Khmer spelling for it too? However, in Thai, as you know the "R" in ro rua becomes an "N" at the end of a syllable. Hence Khmer -> Khmen.

Khom is merely a political term.

[Bodyslam]

No. it is not. transtic.

In the thai term, Khom is ancient people who run the Khmer Empire.
Khmen is people who live in Cambodia in present.

The meaning of word Khmen in your country is only in your country.
Thai people know like i told you.

Khom and Khmen is difference meaning.

Yoeo in thai term is two words but have the same sound.

ญวน = Vietnamese
ยวน = People in Chaingmai or the northern people of Thailand

the Sound is exactly the same.

เขมร = Cambodian
ขอม = Ancient ruling class of Khmer Empire.

[crew]

This is baloney alright.

[Cambodge]

Khmer people you have just to learn to forgive this BodySlam because he is obviously get his HEAD slammed too many times and that is why he can't think straight. He and his kind can choose to call us by whatever, but we are still who we are and that is we are the Khmer of Southeast Asia. Our ancestors have carved out them names and physical characteristics of them people on our majestic stone walls already. In fact, even their victorious troops and leader were placed at the end of the procession. Hahhah.

The next time, this BodySlam speaks his sh*tty thoughts about us Khmer, I will just have to shove into his mouth what the Thai historians at Yale University know about the Khmer lordship over the Southeast Asia.

For their class and rank, it is only expected because we have the immortalized evidence to prove it time and time again. hahhah.

This post has been edited by Cambodge: Oct 17 2005, 05:47 PM

[shoehorn.o.plent...]

lol, let him say what he wants. even if you do prove him wrong (which i'm sure you could), he still wouldn't accept it.

[menghuy]

No. it is not. transtic.

In the thai term, Khom is ancient people who run the Khmer Empire.
Khmen is people who live in Cambodia in present.

The meaning of word Khmen in your country is only in your country.
Thai people know like i told you.

Khom and Khmen is difference meaning.

Yoeo in thai term is two words but have the same sound.

ญวน = Vietnamese
ยวน  =  People in Chaingmai or the northern people of Thailand

the Sound is exactly the same.

เขมร = Cambodian
ขอม  = Ancient ruling class of Khmer Empire.

are you tried to say that khmer or cambodia today is mix race,not one hundred percent khmer that is why you call us the khmen but the old khmer or kampuchea is one hundred percent khmer so you call them the khom,is that right. if you think that all the lands that you stolled were from the khom but not the khmen or khmer. you are wrong my friend. khom and khmen or khmer are the same. you people probably misspell the word in the first place that why you got all confused. in the old day we all call vietnam- yuon but today we call them vietnam. same meaning. dont pass on to your children that yuon and vietnam are two people.hehehe

[Cambodge]

I am sick and disgusted at this DUDE called HEAD&BODY GOT SLAMED too many times. Hahah. FOLKS, allow the MIGHTY Cambodge to put the idiot to REST for good. hahah.

On the meaning of the terms Khom and Khmer, here are the explanation from the two most outstanding Thai academics, Dr. Puangthong Rungswasdisab, Research Fellow at Yale University, and Thai historian Charnvit Kasetsiri, Senior Advisor to the Southeast Asia Studies Program at Thammasat University, Bangkok, Thailand. Hhahah.

Thailand's Response to the Cambodian Genocide
By Dr. Puangthong Rungswasdisab,
Research Fellow, Cambodian Genocide Program,
Yale University

(…)

The attitude of the population of one country towards another is also an important basis for its foreign policy. The standard text books on Thai history, at both school and university levels, usually begin with the migration of the Thai race from the North to the Chaophraya River basin, where the Khom, or Khmer, [I] had earlier settled. Then the Thais, under capable leaders, were soon able to drive off the Khmer from the river basin. The rapid expansion of the Thai kingdom finally brought down Cambodia’s Angkorean Empire, forcing the Cambodians to move their capitals southward, from Angkor to Lovek, Udong, and Phnom Penh respectively.

Thailand-Cambodia: A Love-Hate Relationship
By Charnvit Kasetsiri

Among the neighboring countries of Southeast Asia, none seems more similar to Thailand than Cambodia (perhaps not even excluding Laos and the “Tai” people scattered throughout such countries as Burma, Vietnam, and southern China). Both nations share similar customs, traditions, beliefs, and ways of life. This is especially true of royal customs, language, writing systems, vocabulary, literature, and the dramatic arts.

This lack of understanding is reflected in the thinking of a considerable number of educated Thais and members of the ruling class, who distinguish between the Khom and the Khmer, considering them to be two separate ethnic groups. They assert that it was the Khom, not the Khmer, who built the majestic temple complexes at Angkor Wat and Angkor Thom and who founded one of the world’s truly magnificent ancient empires. They further claim that Khmer culture, for instance its various forms of masked dance drama, is merely a “derivative” of Thai culture. (This is despite the fact that the word “Khom” is derived from the old Thai “Khmer krom,” meaning “lowland Khmer.” In spoken Thai, “Khmer” was gradually dropped, leaving only “krom,” which over time became, first, “klom” or “kalom,” and then eventually “Khom.”)

Now that is really funny...hahahha.

Those elements of Thai culture which are generally considered to have originated in India, such as Buddhism, architecture, artistic designs, and even a significant portion of the Thai lexicon, did not enter Thailand directly from India. Rather, they were all second-hand transmissions, so to speak, having first passed through the Sri Lankans (including the Tamil), the Mon, or the Khmer. Even the concept of divine kingship (devaraja) and much of the special vocabulary associated with the royal court were, as M.R. Kukrit Pramoj, a noted intellectual and former Thai prime minister, said, “derived from Cambodia.”

Thai leaders in the past were filled with tremendous admiration for anything Khom-Khmer. Khun Pha Muang, who ruled the city of Muang Rad, somewhere in present-day northern Thailand, and was instrumental in the founding of the Sukhothai kingdom, was given the title “Sri Intrabodintrathit” (before it was changed to “Sri Intrathit”). This is a name taken from the lord or phee fah of the city of “muang Sri Sothonpura.” Pha Muang’s royal regalia, known as “Pra Khan Jayasri,” the Jayasri sword, and his royal consort named “Sikara Maha Devi,” were all bestowed by the King of Angkor.

This is the message conveyed to us by a fourteenth-century stone inscription of Wat Srichum at Sukhothai (the authenticity of which has never been questioned, unlike that of the Ram Khamhaeng Inscription). The Thai term “phee fah” (referring to a king) and the term “Sri Sothonpura” are direct references to a Khom-Khmer king and his royal capital.  The king in question was probably King Jayavarman VIII (1243-1295) and the royal capital of Sri Sothonpura is certainly Angkor Thom.
In other words, the earliest royal Thai titles – King Sri Intrabodintrathit, the Pra Khan Jayasri sword, and the consort Sikara Maha Devi – were derived from the Khmer, one of the most highly advanced civilizations in Southeast Asia at the time and a source of knowledge and inspiration to the Thai people. It is possible that Sikara Maha Devi was a daughter of King Jayavarman VIII and thus the Thai leader Khun Pha Muang, one of the founders of Sukhothai, was a son-in-law of the Khmer King.
The early history of the Lao Lan Xang kingdom in Luang Prabang shares distinct similarities. Fah Ngum, the founder of the kingdom, had sought refuge at Angkor, where he was given a sacred Buddha image (Phra Bang) and where he took a Khmer consort (Mahesi) before establishing his supremacy over all the Lao people (A.D. 1353).
This respect and admiration for anything Khmer also characterized the Ayutthaya period from the mid-fourteenth century onward. Interestingly, the flourishing of Khmer art and culture at the Thai court was the result of war, a war in which the victors adopted elements of the superior civilization of the losing side. 

However, the Thai conquest of Sri Sothonpura led to a burgeoning of Khmer art and culture in Ayutthaya.  As Professor David Wyatt of Cornell University once noted, in fact, “Ayutthaya is the successor of Angkor.”

Another example from the Ayutthaya period is the decision by King Prasat Thong (1630-1656) to build the principal prang at Wat Chaiyawatanaram in the Khmer style and to bestow on the Khmer-style palace he constructed on the banks of the Pasak River (located today in Nakhon Luang district of Ayutthaya province) the name “Nakhon Luang.” This is a name taken directly from Angkor Wat and Angkor Thom, as Thais at the time referred to the Khmer capital as (Phra) “Nakhon Luang” or in Pali-Sanskrit, Nagara, the City.

The admiration of the Thai ruling classes for things Khmer-Khom remained in evidence even into the Ratanakosin (Bangkok) period. King Rama IV, or King Mongkut (r.1851-1868), for instance, ordered a Khmer stone temple disassembled and reconstructed on Thai soil, but “Phra Suphanphisan, after a trip to the ancient Khmer capital at Angkor, informed the King that all the stone temples were too enormous to be taken apart and transported to Siam. Hearing this, the King ordered that Prasat Ta Prohm, a relatively smaller temple, be relocated instead. Four groups of 500 men each were dispatched…to deconstruct the prasat on the ninth day of the sixth lunar month.”

The account of this event, which appears in “The Royal Chronicles of King Rama IV” by Chao Phraya Thipakorawong, occurred in 1860, before the Siamese ceded “sovereignty” over Cambodia to the French in 1867.

It is unclear to us precisely why King Mongkut wished to have an enormous Khmer temple reconstructed in Siam at a time when the French were gradually extending their control over much of Indochina. What is interesting, however, is that the attempt to move the temple structure failed when “some 300 Khmers came out of the forest and attacked the men who had come to disassemble the temple, killing Phra Suphanphisan, Phra Wang and one of Phra Suphanphisan’s sons. Phra Mahatthai was stabbed, and Phra Yokkrabat was injured. The phrai commoners, however, escaped injury by fleeing into the forest.”

It was obvious that the Khmer were angered by the theft of their property and responded violently. The incident convinced King Mongkut to abandon the plan to “disassemble” the prasat and instead to construct a small model of the Angkor Wat temple complex. “Craftsmen constructed a model of Angkor Wat and installed it at Wat Phra Sri Ratanasasadaram (the Temple of the Emerald Buddha), where it remains to this very day.” (Prime Minister Hun Sen visited the model at the Temple of the Emerald Buddha in early 1990s during an official visit to Thailand for discussions with then-Prime Minister Chatichai Choonhavan.)

...The Thais [felt] love and admiration for anything Khmer...
[SIZE=14]

Now REST IN PEACE and lower your head in love and admiration for the Khmer Lordship. Hhahahah.

[Bodyslam]

I tell you what is Thai people think. This is common in Thai Society. We don't call Cambodian as Khmer. The word Khmer is not in Our Languague.

We use Khmen in stead.
And we use word Khom to represent the Ancient people who live in the Khmer Empire.

We respect Khom but Khmen is something low, untrust, uncivilze.

That is the way it is. I'm not insulted you, but this is common knowledge in Thai Society. I've explained why we think like that.

Khmen is acted like we think. You are never show you have a quality like "Khom". The answer is you are decent from the lower class of the Khmer Empire.

This theory was presented long time ago in Thai Society.
We are very surprise whe we study the history and Civilisation of Khmer Emppire. However, when we look at the people in Cambodia and what is they do after Khmer Empire crumbled. We don't belive they are decent from the same group.

Khom is civilized. Khmen is like a babarian, underdevelop.

Last two year, Khmen burned our ambassy with very stupid reason. That we don't know we can angry or pity. Many situations proved the theory many many time.

Farmer, Serf, Slave can not build a civilize kingdom. After their master was gone. They can not like his master.

Theory proved long time ago.

[Bodyslam]

Cambodge, That is her theory. She is not famous academic guy. I don't know who she is. Her title is not Professor. May be she proposed a new theory. But it is not accept yet.

As I told you, The ruling class of Khmer Empire was gone. The Siamese army took them to Ayutthaya. The remaining in the crumbled Empire are Farmer, Serf, Slave.

And Cambodian decent from the lower class.

[transtic]

If it were true that Khom and Khmen/Khmer aren't the same, then why are there no sources that prove it, apart from maybe Thai ones? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I can't find any.

Cambodge was able to come up with two sources that say they're the same, from Thai academics, no less.

This post has been edited by transtic: Oct 18 2005, 06:50 AM

[Bodyslam]

transtic, Cambodge,

As I told you, Thai people are highly respect to Khom but Khmen.

There is two words in Thai Society. The definition is difference.
We are admire and feel we are own more to Khom.
It is nothing link with Khmen.

Khom and Khmen in our sense is not the same group.

Khom is not Khmen.
In our definition, Khom is the ancient people who live in Khmer Empire.
Khmen is in Cambodia.

You can decent from some Khom, but you are not Khom.

It is like you are decent from you father but you are not you father.

Son may not as good as like the parent.


The evidence in history proved you are not.

[Krypt!c]

Does Ana ring a bell?

[Bodyslam]

You can earn more restpect by doing more civilze, do not act like babarian.
You do not gain more respect by call for it.
We are respect in you parent or your ancient.

It is not you, Khmen that we are respect.

If you do someting good like Khom did. May be we can respect you more.

We respect your father, it is not mean we will respect you too.
Your behavior is more babaric in history after the crumbled of the Old Empire.

You can not recovered after you fail.

We, Thai, had been failed, crumble many times in History.

Our old Kingdom, Nanchao and Ailaos (in Southern china), Sukhothai, Ayuthaya had been collasped and Crumbled into Ash.

However, we stand on our foot again. We created a new Kingdom, new Empire and develop from nothing.


Khmen sticked with the past and can not walk to the future.

The glorious was past.

It is proved, Khom is not Khmen.