New Theory on Angkor, Who were the last Varman kings? Options

[LoveIsAllAround]

I think you got it wrong. Religious conversion in Southeast Asia (from animism to Hinduism, then to Islam and Buddhism) was rather peaceful until Christianity arrived...I studied on this before.

It was Theravada Buddhism spread to SEA first by King Ashoka the great of ancient Indian sent Buddhist monks to 7 places outside ancient India, one was in Sri Lanka, one was Suvaranbhumi in SEA. Manly places claim to be Suvarnbhumi such as Southern Burma (Mon Pegu), Central Thailand (Mon Dvarvati) and Southern Thailand (Mon). All of these land inhabited by ancient Mon. The first Theravada Buddhist stupa was built in Central Thailand, created Mon by using ancient Indian art, same as Sanjay Stupa (built by king Ashoka). They also found many king Ashoka Chakra (Dhamma wheels) from north to south of Thailand. These evidence are all Theravada Buddhist. Mahayan Buddhist and Hindu spread to SEA later. I think the Early Funan was influenced by Theravad Buddhist, and late half of Funan period were influenced by Mahayan and Hindu (Funan rulers were indianized in this period). So, later, Central and Southern Thailand, most people had practiced both Theravada and Mahaya, some practice Hindu.

[LoveIsAllAround]

Javanese (Malay)????
First you guys claimed they were Khmer, then you changed them to Cham, and now Javanese (Khmer)!!!

What's next? Next time you make them Papua New Guinea people, maybe?

And what is Javanese (Khmer)???

Tell us why your "Javanese (Malay)" had Tai name Kun Tian, Kun Pan Wang and Tai title "Kun" or "Kun Luang"????

LOL That's true.

I Remember when this Chamboi said All Austroasiatic people are Khmer.

Mon is Khmer.

jarai (Cham tribe) is Khmer

Funan is Khmer

Chenla is Khmer

Kothinya is Indian

Now these Khmer says

Kothinya is Cham and Malay.

Funan is Malay

Cham is Khmer

but Cham is Malay, so Malay is Khmer and then Funan is Khmer. LOL

and They don't wanna be associated with Mon anymore. They reject that Mon civilization and admire Malay. They call Mon culture as Khmer culture (really really RETARDED).

What's else they wanna lie?

Till now, they make me think Khmer never exist!!! only bunches of mixed blood AA tribes and Cham tribes!!! They are surely bastarded child of Cham!!!

Right? Chamboi?

[PeaceMan]

-PeaceMan I don't think I want to related with thief (even due Syambura was Mon-Khmer Kingdom). And pls note that for me Siem is Tai refugee.. when they were in Lavo they still call Siem until to absorb Suphan then they change Siem to Syam! But Khmer still call them Siem!!!

Keep ignoring fact all you like KhmerboiS....

Fact is Fact...Sien,Siem,Siam refer to the "Suphan" and its subjects(people)

Like I said it's a solid fact ,proven by both Chinese and Vietnamese's record...Also supported by respective scholar...


So it really doesn't matter of what your believes,V didn't ask for ur approval, coz other sources are much much more credited...


Anyhow that replied of yours making you look like a damn hypocrites...calling people thieves and such...You love the victim role so much, ain't ya???

SO U can't take the taste of your own medicine, I C....

[Leeporter]

and They don't wanna be associated with Mon anymore.

The reason why they now rejected Mon is because they learned from you guys that Siam = Mon + Tai.

So, except for Mon and Tai, everything else is fine for them, even Papua New Guinie.

real Khmer people count their history from Kaundinya and they give credit to Cham of moe early Kinngdom even due they invade our queen Lieyee

Hey KhmerBoi,

Can I ask you something?

Don't you feel ashame at all when you said something about foreign names like Kuan Tan Ya (Indian name), Khun Tian (Tai name), Khun Pan Wang (Tai name), Khun Pan Pan (Tai name) being your Khmer ancestor and they came to rape another foreign name "Lieyi" (sound like Chinese name) who you claim to be your Khmer female king????

I don't understand at all why you are so proud of such story.

"real Khmer people count their history from Kaundinya "??

What I heard is that Khmer people nowaday realized that Norodom Sihanouk was a descendant of Trasok Paem, not of those Varman kings.

But they want to be related to Varman kings, so it's the reason why they hate Norodom Sihanouk and Trasok, their true ancestor.

This is what a Khmer told me last year:

"All Khmer knows about Ta Trasok Pa-eam, we all know that King Norodom Sihanouk is the the decendant of him. We call the current royal families, fake royal family. The true royal bloodline are the Varaman. Ta Trosok Pa-eam used to grow sweet cucumbers or melon the Varaman king enjoy eating so much. Varaman king told him to guard his sweet melon with his life and he did. One night the Varaman king had a craving for the sweet melon and ventured out to Ta Trasok Pa-eam farm, and Ta Trasok Pa-eam thought a thief had entered his farm so he'd accidentally attacked the Varaman King, only to find out the next day that he'd killed his beloved Varaman king. So Khmer people has no more king and the people at the royal court were looking for a king and they used the royal elephant to search for the new king. They came across Ta Trasok Pa-eam farm, and upon seeing Ta Trasok Pa-eam, the royal elephant stop and bow down to Ta Trasok Pa-eam, so the people took him back to the royal court to be crown as the new king. Ta Trasok Pa-eam tried very hard to please the royal family that were left behind, but still couldn't win their heart, so he had them killed. Ta Trasok Pa-eam was picked by the royal elephant to be king,not by the people. Amazing story isn't it? Many Khmer people still don't like the current royal family, they are considered to be fake! Get it? That is why Hun Sen refused to return power to the current royal family."


Wow!

If King Nippean Bat and Trasok were still alive, they would cry so hard to hear your people think like that.

Trasok set Khmer free from those Varman kings, but your people today warship Varman kings as your ancescor and hate your own Khmer king like King Sihanouk and his ancester likg Trasok and King Nippean Bat.

I feel pity for King Nippean Bat and Trasok.


This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 10 2012, 02:28 AM

[LoveIsAllAround]

Haha, do you think this art was really Mon? Or did Mon perhaps take it? Like they did with Khmer style in Dvaravati.

Want some more Mon? LOL

This is another Mon art. It's really unique in this world. Mon created this Phnaspati god, by their own. Don't tell me this is Khmer art (again).

Buddha and Future Buddhas on the top of Hindu god. Umm.... What a creative & Genious !!!

[LoveIsAllAround]

The reason why they now rejected Mon is because they learned from you guys that Siam = Mon + Tai.

So, except for Mon and Tai, everything else is fine for them, even Papua New Guinie.

LOL They said they love MON so bad! Mon is their only brother. Now Since, they realize that Siamese is actually Dvaravatians! So they turn 180 degree to Cham instead. (retarded?)

[Leeporter]

Want some more Mon? LOL

This is another Mon art. It's really unique in this world. Mon created this Phnaspati god, by their own. Don't tell me this is Khmer art (again).

Buddha and Future Buddhas on the top of Hindu god. Umm.... What a creative & Genious !!!

That Mon art is a fine example of how Buddhism fought with Brahman/Hindu in SEA.

It's naive to think that people peacefully switched from one believing to another.

If you read Tripitaka, you will find that it's full with how Lord Buddha fought with the believing of Brahman.

Throughout Tripitaka, you will see something like "Listen Brahm,... what you believed is wrong; if your believing was correct, it should......... but since it's not like what you expected, so your believing is not correct, true or not true?"

That's how he "logically" proved them (Brahman) wrong while he was still alive and it made Buddhism popular even in China.

But after he died, Buddhism lost their ground. Brahman started to strike back and his followers needed to adapt their practice to make it fit with people. So they started to have Mahayan and Buddha as god concept.

That Buddha on the top of Hindu god is another example of their attempt to win over Brahman.



This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 10 2012, 03:35 AM

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[LoveIsAllAround]

Anybody knows what is more polite word for 'slave'? I think Chamboi is crying now. LOL

I don''t understand how you come up with this explanation? what do you want to say here? Don''t tell a lie about Ramkamheang Inscription.. WE know about it.. IT is not Khmer claim it fake but most of professional claim it.

It's like when they read Sukothai inscription they don't feel it's written by an Ancient king, so they think King Rama IV created it. What they know all ancient kings espcecially in Cambodia were careless on their subjects (Khmer). Thousands of stone inscriptions found in Cambodia, not one stone describe about Khmer everyday live. But this Sukhothai stone describes almost everything in the kingdom. And you know what the word 'Thai' are seen many times in the stone. But the word 'Khmer' is seen only ONE time in a stone which was found in Thailand, not Cambodia! LOL

Now the stone is already proved by your dad, UNESCO, that it's real and it's the great treasure for mankind. You should obey you dad, stop saying it's fake. OK? Otherwise many Thais here will see you as a Monkey.

That why you couldn't understand how Southern Thailand now booming everyday... It related since the ancient time..but your king just want to hide issue!

wtf??? Nothing related to the southern insurgents. You are ignorant to connect two different things together. Siam is Central (Ayutthaya) and Southern (Nagara Sri Dhammaraja) since the beginning of the kingdom creation. You stupid Khmer is living in Asia, you should be more clever than those Laotards who think all southern Thais are all muslim hothead. LOL

I am not deny if you call Khmer slave... Yes according to inscription, Khmer people were slave to god... they serve the GOD... I think those people are lucky because after they death they will live in heaven... ^^ it is funny that if you claimed Khmer is not descendent of Kampuja but it are lucky then even those Siam who you believe the own that civilization.

Your ancestors were slave to God, Siamese, Viet, Cham, Javanese. LOL Khmer slaves were Kambujadesa's population, not the Kamvujan rulers. Kamvujan rulers seem to be Mon-Malayu-Tamil mixed blood Funanese royal from Southern Thailand.

I think those Siem who invaded and burned Angkor villages (ZDG) and also burned Angkor City (which fill by Temple of God) will go to heal! by their Karma! that is this logical for this Hindu-Buddhist Civilization!

Siam is Crocodile who were raise by Khmer in Khmer Empire.

After 50 pages, you Chamboy still believes in French's Khmer Empire? LOL

Do you wanna here alternative history about ZDG?
v
v
ZDG's Siam was Lavo and Xian federation. They attacked Angkor Thom (Yasodhrapura), which was ruling by Tai speaking king, Indravarman III, he was also known by Khmer slaves by Khmer native name 'Pya Krak พญาแกรก'. Sukhothai, back then was allied with Angkor, Since Sukhothai king and Angkor Indravarman III were brothers. So (Siamese) Lavo attacked both (Tai) Angkor and (Tai) Sukhothai (Sukhothai were attaced by Khom Sabad Lamphong). Indravarman III brought Theravad Buddhism to Angkor, Khmer slaves were allowed to be Buddhists and monks, they realized in Dhamma, they finally knew that their king was not god, but a human and they also human. This Thervada made Khmer slaves prepared to stage a coup form slavery. But epidemic had happened, in the time of Angkor king U-Tong who married the woman heir of grandson of king Indravarman III. King U-Tong had to evacuate his court and people. He decided to move west to Lavo, Siam. Finally, the great Khom exodus occurred, millions of people moved to their new capital at Ayuttaya in Siam. They left Angkor as disordered city, there were looters and the city was burnt to the ground, Trosok Peam, a Jarai (Cham) pow led his Khmer fellows, declared to be the new king of Angkor. 15 years later, Ayutthaya king sent his army to defeat the 'Rebel' Khmers in Angkor. The Khmers were defeated and retreated southeast to Jatumuk, present Phnom Penh.

300 years later, Ayutthayan King Narai claimed to be descent of Yasodhrapura. Siamese is actually Khom. Khmer is Cham+AA tribes

This post has been edited by LoveIsAllAround: Feb 10 2012, 11:11 AM

[SabaiSabai]

Anybody knows what is more polite word for 'slave'? I think Chamboi is crying now. LOL



It's like when they read Sukothai inscription they don't feel it's written by an Ancient king, so they think King Rama IV created it. What they know all ancient kings espcecially in Cambodia were careless on their subjects (Khmer). Thousands of stone inscriptions found in Cambodia, not one stone describe about Khmer everyday live. But this Sukhothai stone describes almost everything in the kingdom. And you know what the word 'Thai' are seen many times in the stone. But the word 'Khmer' is seen only ONE time in a stone which was found in Thailand, not Cambodia! LOL

Now the stone is already proved by your dad, UNESCO, that it's real and it's the great treasure for mankind. You should obey you dad, stop saying it's fake. OK? Otherwise many Thais here will see you as a Monkey.


wtf??? Nothing related to the southern insurgents. You are ignorant to connect two different things together. Siam is Central (Ayutthaya) and Southern (Nagara Sri Dhammaraja) since the beginning of the kingdom creation. You stupid Khmer is living in Asia, you should be more clever than those Laotards who think all southern Thais are all muslim hothead. LOL


Your ancestors were slave to God, Siamese, Viet, Cham, Javanese. LOL Khmer slaves were Kambujadesa's population, not the Kamvujan rulers. Kamvujan rulers seem to be Mon-Malayu-Tamil mixed blood Funanese royal from Southern Thailand.


After 50 pages, you Chamboy still believes in French's Khmer Empire? LOL

Do you wanna here alternative history about ZDG?
v
v
ZDG's Siam was Lavo and Xian federation. They attacked Angkor Thom (Yasodhrapura), which was ruling by Tai speaking king, Indravarman III, he was also known by Khmer slaves by Khmer native name 'Pya Krak พญาแกรก'. Sukhothai, back then was allied with Angkor, Since Sukhothai king and Angkor Indravarman III were brothers. So (Siamese) Lavo attacked both (Tai) Angkor and (Tai) Sukhothai (Sukhothai were attaced by Khom Sabad Lamphong). Indravarman III brought Theravad Buddhism to Angkor, Khmer slaves were allowed to be Buddhists and monks, they realized in Dhamma, they finally knew that their king was not god, but a human and they also human. This Thervada made Khmer slaves prepared to stage a coup form slavery. But epidemic had happened, in the time of Angkor king U-Tong who married the woman heir of grandson of king Indravarman III. King U-Tong had to evacuate his court and people. He decided to move west to Lavo, Siam. Finally, the great Khom exodus occurred, millions of people moved to their new capital at Ayuttaya in Siam. They left Angkor as disordered city, there were looters and the city was burnt to the ground, Trosok Peam, a Jarai (Cham) pow led his Khmer fellows, declared to be the new king of Angkor. 15 years later, Ayutthaya king sent his army to defeat the 'Rebel' Khmers in Angkor. The Khmers were defeated and retreated southeast to Jatumuk, present Phnom Penh.

300 years later, Ayutthayan King Narai claimed to be descent of Yasodhrapura. Siamese is actually Khom. Khmer is Cham+AA tribes

Makes much more sense than a Khmer empire that appeared out of nowhere and ruled everything roflmao

[SEAhistory]

I think all you Funan is Malay people keep forgetting one thing. There is 1 record written by the Chinese regarding the language spoken by the people of Funan.

It is written the people of Funan spoke the same language was the people of Tun Sun (tenessarim). Anyone want to tell me when the Mon people of Tun Sun magically turn into Malays or Khmers lol

Oh and another thing. Just because they were not known for seafaring does not mean they did not know how to sail. The Mon were in control of many important port cities. Did you think it didn't cross their minds to make short voyages? Lol once again very 2D way of thinking.

Yes, it spoke a similar language to Mon. If they spoke the same language they would have said they speak the same language. So, if it was a language related, but not the same, it would have been Khmer! Thank you. The city was named Tun Sun, which mean five cities. And there was a Mon kingdom with five kings. So it once again points to Khmer.

[SEAhistory]

Mon did not to be seafarer to march their troop from southern Thailand to Cambodia. Southern Thailand and Cambodia is not too far or too dangerous to sail. It's Siam gulf, a shallow sea, not deep Pacific ocean.

Mon in Isan, NE Thailand had this art, and this art were found in Phnom Kulen temple, which is predate Angkor Art. Khmer. Do you think there are anything relation between Mon art and what you call Khmer art?

Mon art from Faa Daed Song Yang, Mon Ancient city.

You only show me that the people indeginous were not Khmer before 550AD but were ruled by Khmer after.

[SEAhistory]

Those Mon art is Theravada Buddhist art, How could it be Khmer. And it had been created before Angkor established. This Sema art was found in Cambodia, this bas relief art might influenced khmer art in Angkor wall.



If it was Khmer ruler, why Chinese didn't write it as 'kam mun tin' for Kamratin?

Tai's Taen/Tan and Chinese's Tien/Tian are same word, mean god/heaven
Tai's Luang and Chinese's Huang (Wang) are same word, mean king




Khmer number system is really interesting and it may help prove something misterious. Khmer got Thai's counting 30-100, 1000, 10000, 100000, 1000000 from Thai. This is also interesting that why Khmer replace Thai counting to Khmer language.

How is that mysterious. Angkors language is influenced a lot of Thai. That happens if a country is oppressed by another country.

[SEAhistory]

What kind of evidence you want?

About Bung Fai?

Go get your self some reading about Pha Taen or Khun Taen and the Toad. It's the legend of Tai-speaking people. And you have to explain why people in Chenla had such rocket playing when ZDG was there.




Dai Viet people also share the same frog story. Go ask Xigon, she knows it.



How could you explain the Khun title of Malay?????
You idiot just shift it from Khmer to Cham and then from Cham to Malay, and skip the obvious evidence to tell who the rulers of Funan were.

Their title was "Khun", their name are pure Tai, Pan Wang = thousand palace, Pan Pan = thousand trays etc.

What you did is closing your eyes to the name of the rulers of Funan.



Tai-speaking people cruised to China and India all the times.
Who do you think brought elephants to China and went to Sri Lanka for Theravada mission?



Err. what you did is your label those art/culture with the word "Khmer" and cliam that Khmer influence Mon.



Idiot, can't you distinguish Theravada and Mahayan buddhist?

All evidence about Indianized culture lead to the Malays. Tattooing, Muay Boran/Bokator, architecture, Sanskrit, seafaring, Mahayana Bhuddism, Shivaism, canal digging, etc. And all evidence you show of mon culture before 550AD in Thailand has nothing to do with Khmer culture. The ethnicity of the Khmer kingdom is Khmer/Mon-Khmer, Austronesean and is found all over the teritory of the Kamboja kingdom (Khmer Krom, Khmer Surin, Khmer Kampuchea, etc.)

The only evidence you can provide are Chinese words that predate Thai words and are not derrived from Thai words. Chinese always used their own language to describe names. Like Fu-nan, whe Fu is a word for holy people and Nan means south. And Hun Tien, wich means something like Lord Veda.

The second evidence you show is legends. How do we know that these legends are not copied from khmer books after the siege of Angkor? How do we know that they are not corrupted to show a sacred heir, because Thais have been obsessed with that till now.

Also, there are many cultural traditions that were taken from Khmer, so we can't know if the Khmer take it from Siam, or Siam take it from Khmer.

Also, the country of Langkasuka was inhabited by Malay people. The ethnicity there is still primarily Malay, while the Malays there have lost power since 14th/15th century.

Sri Vijaya is related to Sailendra, and is a Malay connection.

To prove you are right, why don't you show me some important evidence, and no assumptions?
All your claims are misproven by the evidence we provided you with. Why don't you show me something Mon before 550 AD in Cambodia? Why don't you show me something Khmer before 550 AD in Thailand?

This post has been edited by SEAhistory: Feb 10 2012, 06:54 PM

[SEAhistory]

Makes much more sense than a Khmer empire that appeared out of nowhere and ruled everything roflmao

Came out of nowhere? The Chams came to the mainland around 200BC. The reason to come was to build a city port and hold control over the people. Around 200BC the area around Tonlé Sap was heavily influenced by people that had great agriculture. After they had many centuries to develop to become the Khmer rulers. It's not out of nowhere.

[SEAhistory]

Ow yeah, also Tamils have great connection with Malays throughout history, while about Mon people I can not find evidence so far. You only want to claim the Khmer rulers were Mon so they are in one way connected to Siamese. But modern Siamese are descended Tai people from Yunnan. Mon are more like Pyu.

[SEAhistory]

Idiot! The stone inscription of Ramkhamhang was tested by radiocarbon dating technique (carbon-14) several years ago and confirmed to be of Sukhothai period.

http://muziix-historyblog.exteen.com/20091115/entry

Very idiot!

Let me guess. It's a Thai website.

[SEAhistory]

KherBoi, don't try to distract people with non-related things.

Go back to the discussion whether the rulers of Funan were Khmer or not.

What is Hun Tian, Hun Pankuang, Hun Pan Pan, Kun Long in Khmer language?

Give some explanation that make sense.

We know that Khmer called king and high-ranking officers as "Kamaradang xxx"

What does it has anything to do with those title "Khun" and "Khun Luang" in Funan?

You should ask: what do these names mean in Chinese?

This post has been edited by SEAhistory: Feb 10 2012, 06:55 PM

[SEAhistory]

if You want to study about this civilization you can''t jump over Khmer...

Listen Hun Tien Family was not consider as Khmer they are Javanese (Malay).. You still don''t realize that you full of doubt and confusing.. but it is because of your ignorance which come of your jealousy and that because you were educated for Imperialism movement concept.. U deny of Khmer Empire because of his 1000s years a go which you can feel nothing about it that because you live in Thailand and never come to Cambodia where it's capital city here. You believe that Siam Empire is real because of its wealthier compare to Cambodia of Khmer which mean you just judge book by cover only!

If you study this civilization and Khmer tradition more carefully without biasing you will realize that Thailand policy is not help for longer term.. for this globalization.. You King can't balance it anymore.. it time for Thai to study the truth about their nation.. give up the Imperial knowledge from those American (which being fail) and take American tradition of THANKSGIVING Day. It will more help and for future Thai generation can proud of!!

Here I can give you some clue what Khmer people know about their own history throw legend:

Khmer legend of 6 Cham kings ruling Ancient Cambodia.
Khmer legend of NorkorKokthlork another version of Preah Thong Neang Neak.

okay this legend is very match to the Chinese Record, Indian, and Cham inscription. It is pretty match then compare to your Khun Tien Story!! ^^ I guess!

Legend of Preah Perhsonukar (talking about Angkor and the story is in Hinduism...)

Legend of Neav Trorsok Phaem (talking about the Religion Revolution from Hindu to Theravada Buddhism which adopt from Burma religion text )

Legend of Preah Kor Preah Keo (talking about the lost of Long Veak telling story in Hinduism )

The other three legends that I provided you is in three difference periods which talking about three importance event happen in Khmer History movements... and there are many more other that I don''t need to mention it here..

Yeah, we can also throw legends in your face, but I keep it to evidence and on the current found links.

[PeaceMan]

How is that mysterious. Angkors language is influenced a lot of Thai. That happens if a country is oppressed by another country.

and vice versa...