Indians in Indonesia |
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Indians in Indonesia |
Sep 12 2005, 06:19 AM
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#1
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 6,819 Joined: 13-May 04 |
QUOTE Origins of the Indian community Veeramalla Anjaiah Selvam, 35, of Indian descent, said he did not know how his family came to Indonesia from India. “When I was a child, my grandfather used to tell us his father came from a place called Dharmapuri in Tamil Nadu. None of my family members have any knowledge of where this ‘Dharmapuri’ is. We don’t have the money to go to India to trace our origins, Selvam, who works as a construction laborer in the North Sumatran capital of Medan, told The Jakarta Post recently. Selvam’s great grandfather was one of the thousands of Indian victims of the British colonial regime in the 19th century. The British sent hundreds of thousands of illiterate villagers to countries like Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Malaysia, Fiji and Suriname as indentured laborers to work on its tea, sugar and rubber plantations. Those laborers were the earliest members of the Indian diaspora, which today spans the globe. Though Indians are not known as a mobile people like the Jews and the Chinese, the Indian diaspora is made up of more than 25 million people across the globe. The Indian diaspora consists of Indian citizens, as well as expatriates of Indian origin. Indonesia and India are maritime neighbors and have inherited a rich cultural heritage with so many things in common. The island of Java, the most populous island in Indonesia, was mentioned in the great Indian epic, Ramayana, under the name of Yavadwipa (barley island). It was one of the places where search parties were sent out for Sita (the wife of Rama), and it was by this name that the island was known to Ptolemy, the acclaimed geographer of the second century A.D. According to various history books, early Indian migration, largely stemmed from religious and trade missions to Indonesia. Thanks to these missions, several Hindu kingdoms emerged on Java and Buddhist (Mahayana) kingdoms on Sumatra, during the early and medieval periods of history respectively. In modern times, the indentured laborers — who mainly came from India’s Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh provinces, were the first members of the present Indian community here. Later, the British government also brought another group of Indians to Indonesia and other Southeast Asian countries. They were mostly soldiers or employees of British plantation companies. After World War II, the Indian laborers, soldiers and employees decided to stay on — many of them in fact staying for generations. Though a large number of the present generation of ethnic Tamils in Indonesia and other countries in the region are not wealthy, due to their lack of proper education, others — like Texmaco group owner Marimutu Sinivasan and Malaysia’s billionaire Ananda Krishnan — a telecommunications tycoon who built the 88-story Petronas Twin Towers — have demonstrated their expertise in business. Then, another wave of Indian migrants — small-scale traders, professionals and laborers — ventured into Southeast Asia during the early part of the 20th century to test their luck. Gujarati and Bombay traders — mostly Sindhis, Parsis and Marathis, Sikhs and Tamils belonged to this wave of migrants. They arrived in Indonesia independently — some with nothing but the clothes on their backs — to establish textiles, iron and steel, shoes, sports equipment and other businesses in major cities, including Medan, Jakarta, Surabaya, Bandung, Solo, Padang, Banda Aceh and Semarang. Lakshmi Mittal, the world’s number one steel tycoon who came to Indonesia empty-handed in the 1970s, and the TV entertainment mogul Ram Punjab are some of the success stories from this group of migrants. Later professionals and the educated elite of India arrived here seeking financial gains, particularly between 1990 and 1997 when the economy was booming. This Indian expatriate group is made up of managers, accountants, entrepreneurs, teachers, information technology experts, bankers, traders, researchers, inventors, engineers and analysts, who are working in various companies and organizations across Indonesia. Besides advancing their own careers, members of the Indian community — both Indonesian citizens and Indian expatriates — have made significant contributions to their host country in many fields. Some established schools of repute such as Gandhi International School in Jakarta and Rama International School in Purwakarta, West Java, thus contributing to the development of education in the country. Curiously, there is no official data on the strength of the Indian community here. Although, in the year 2000, the Indian government announced that there were 55,000 people of Indian origin living in Indonesia. According to an estimate in the early 1990s, there were about 300,000 people of Indian descent living in North Sumatra alone, where the famous Kampung Keling (India town) is located. Many of them have already left North Sumatra and migrated to Malaysia, Singapore and the Middle East. Some of them moved to Jakarta and other towns. “There are only a few Indians living now in Kampung Keling,” Rajan, who works as a parking attendant in Medan, said. In Jakarta also, many ethnic Indians have moved to other areas from Pasar Baru, where they were traditionally located. The reason may be that both Kampung Keling and Pasar Baru are located in prime areas. Now that the land value has increased manifold, they have been selling their homes at a higher price and moving to areas on the outskirts of the cities. The fast-growing Indian expatriate community was badly affected by the 1997 financial crisis. Several hundred Indian expatriates lost their jobs and either went back to India or moved to other countries. However, the successes of the Indian community in Indonesia can be attributed to its traditional ethos, its tolerance and hospitality, its educational aptitude and qualifications, and its capacity to harmonize and adapt. For example, the Indian community has been living in harmony in the word’s largest Muslim nation, Indonesia, as well as several other Islamic countries in the Middle East for several decades. It has also been a welcome addition to the U.S. and several European nations. http://www.thejakartapost.com/community/india8.asp |
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Sep 12 2005, 06:41 AM
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#2
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 6,819 Joined: 13-May 04 |
SOME FAMOUS INDONESIANS OF INDIAN DESCENT
![]() Anand Krishna, a spiritual guru who taught his pupils to attain holisitic health through meditation ![]() Marimutu Sinivasan, ethnic-Tamil CEO of giant textile, machinery, and otomotive manufacturer Texmaco Group ![]() Harbrinder Singh Dillon, ethnic-Sikh agricultural expert and pundit ![]() Raam Punjabi, ethnic-Punjabi owner of Multivision Group who produces most of Indonesia's soapies (sinetron). He is criticised of Bollywoodising Indonesian entertainment industry (high quantity, low quality). ![]() Chand Parvez Servia, ethnic-Sindhi film and sinetron producer, famous for producing controversial movie "Virgin". |
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Sep 12 2005, 10:22 PM
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#3
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 6,819 Joined: 13-May 04 |
![]() ![]() Tamil-Indonesians celebrated Theemethi Festival in Sri Mariamman Temple grounds at Pancurbatu, eleven kilometres south of Medan - North Sumatera. There's approximately 300,000 Tamils living in Indonesia, mostly in North Sumatera. |
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Sep 12 2005, 10:26 PM
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#4
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 6,819 Joined: 13-May 04 |
Kampung Keling: Economic symbiosis in Medan's Chinese-Indian enclave
Apriadi Gunawan Medan, North Sumatra, is known for its sharp racial distinctions between native Batak, Chinese, Indian and Malay ethnic groups. Ironically, one of the city's most prominent areas, Kampung Keling, or Little India, has evolved to become an example of racial harmony between the ethnic Chinese and the once predominant Indian community Its almost lunch time. A 70-year-old woman of Tamil descent named Kolina stands busily chopping fruit and vegetables in front of her run-down house. Strangers passing by might ask themselves why is she doing such work outside the house, and not in her kitchen. Kolina smiles each time someone asks her this familiar question. With a touch of embarrassment, she admits that this has been her habit for over two decades, simply because her small dwelling has no kitchen. Like many of her neighbors of Indian descent in Kampung Kubur, Madras subdistrict, in the North Sumatra provincial capital of Medan, she's accustomed to the hard life. Her house is similar to those around it. Small four-walled dwellings packed in narrow lanes that are no more than a few meters wide. Kampung Kubur is so named for the simple reason that it is adjacent to a cemetery. For people like Kolina, the narrow lane not only functions as a path to reach the "outside world" but also the place where daily chores are carried out. Her house is just 4 meters by 6 meters, barely sufficient for a bedroom and makeshift living room. Inside, there is no fancy furniture, not even a TV set. The most noticeable features are a few pictures representing Hindu gods hung on the wall. "I don't have the money to fill my house with expensive items. I have had to make do by myself since my husband died 10 years ago," said the childless Kolina. To keep her company, Kolina considers her nephew as her own child. But much of the 15-year-old's material needs are still provided by his biological parents. To make ends meet, Kolina sometimes washes clothes for an ethnic Chinese family living in this "Indian village". She receives about Rp 100,000 per month for her toil. Even though the area -- dubbed Kampung Keling -- is known as Little India, fate has made it common for the predominantly ethnic Indians to seek employment with ethnic Chinese families who over time have come to dominate the location economically. The local area head, Raunandas, said that despite once being the predominant ethnic group in the area, the ethnic Indians have long been seeking employment with the ethnic Chinese. Most of them perform menial work such as serving as maids, washerwomen or security guards. Kampung Keling is considered the original home of Medan's ethnic Indian community. They are mainly the descendants of South Indians who came to work in the plantations of North Sumatra in the late 1800s. A prominent reminder of the South Indian heritage in the area is the Sri Mariamman temple, which was built in 1881 for the goddess Kali. The names of the streets in the area also once reflected the origin of those living there -- Calcutta, Nagapatam, Bombay Streets. Another feature of the area is the Khalsa school, located adjacent to the temple. The school was once famous for being the only English language school in the city. According to Raunandas, the ethnic Chinese started becoming more noticeable in the area in the 1950s when the Indian residents fell on hard times and started selling their houses. This also resulted in a diaspora of the original Indians from the area to the outskirts of Medan. Raunandas, who himself is ethnic Indian and has lived in the area all his life, claims that after years of living together there is no longer any sense of shame in having to depend for their livelihoods on Chinese families -- latecomers to the area. It is an historical fact, said the 58-year-old, that the Indians are at an economic disadvantage. "The Indians are poor while the Chinese are always rich. If there are poor Chinese, they're very rare. Everyone accepts that," he remarked. The pattern has thus been set. The ethnic Indians rule the small rows of houses and pathways hidden behind the more prominent two-story buildings on the main streets, which the Chinese use as both shops and homes. The demography has also changed according to the latest census, with the ethnic Chinese outnumbering the 500 ethnic Indian families three-to-one. According to one local elder, Naran Sami, Kampung Keling, which was originally called Patisah, changed its name to Kampung Madras to reflect the South Indian origin of those living in the 10-hectare area. But because the South Indians were mostly people of dark skin, the name Keling -- a slang word for darker skin -- became more popular. What attracted them to the area was the presence of the Sri Mariamman temple, which today has become one of Medan's tourist attractions. What makes the area unique is that at a time when Indonesia has been witnessing numerous communal conflicts, Kampung Keling, despite the divergence of race, religion and economic status of its inhabitants, has remained a peaceful place for its residents, irrespective of their ethnicity. This peaceful understanding and cohabitation did not occur overnight, and it required years of mutual tolerance by all sides before a level of "comfort" could be attained. As one resident put it, the two groups came from "different worlds", with each considering itself different from the other. Exclusivity One obstacle, according to Naran Sami, was the "exclusive" way in which the ethnic Chinese conducted their lives, making little effort to approach their Indian neighbors. "Till today, the ethnic Chinese maintain highly exclusive lifestyles. They only engage with their own kind, rarely with people like us," he lamented. This is felt deeply when an ethnic Indian dies. "Rarely will we see them (the ethnic Chinese) pay their respects," he added. "You also don't see a Chinese taking part in community volunteer work, or the neighborhood watch at night." These feelings of jealousy persist. Fortunately, the cordial nature in which the two groups handle their differences -- highlighted by a symbiotic need of (economic) convenience -- has prevented negative feelings from spilling over into rage. It is not a perfect relationship, nor one that is at all equal. But a symbiosis has naturally developed that has helped encourage a peaceful understanding among residents. They have come to accept, albeit not necessarily like, the way the other lives. Despite their exclusivity, the ethnic Chinese are known for their generosity in providing "donations" when sought. When a part of the area was burned down, the ethnic Chinese distinguished themselves by their generosity. Riots As far as Naran Sami remembers, in the six decades he has lived in Kampung Keling, he has never encountered any ethnic-based flare-ups. Even when parts of Medan were gripped by racial rioting in 1998, Kampung Keling remained relatively safe. In fact it was the ethnic Indians who prevented outsiders from attacking their Chinese neighbors. Though still rare, there has also been an increasing number of mixed marriages between ethnic Indian and Chinese people. One man who can attest to conditions there is Lukman Ahin, an ethnic Chinese who has resided in Kampung Keling since 1938 when he was just three years old. Moving from the town of Tebing Tinggi, North Sumatra, Lukman's parents opened a repair shop in Kampung Keling, at a time when there were less than 100 ethnic Chinese families living there. Most other Chinese families sold household supplies. He has since taken over the family business and turned it into an auto repair shop. Lukman claims that he has had little difficulty in dealing with his racially different neighbors. "Frankly, this place is my little piece of heaven. I feel safe living and working in this Indian village," said the father of three, while adding that "they (the ethnic Indians) are our protectors". Free from troublesome harassment, Lukman's business has prospered, allowing him to send his children to university. Lukman may smile at his good fortune, but just a few meters away Kolina can only look forward to further toil for a pittance and hope for some charity from her more affluent neighbors. |
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Sep 12 2005, 10:32 PM
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#5
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 6,819 Joined: 13-May 04 |
![]() ![]() ![]() Sri Mariamman Temple in Kampung Keling district of Medan - North Sumatera, built in 1884 by Tamil immigrants to worship Goddess Kali http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/2da47/10aa4e/ This post has been edited by purnomor: Sep 12 2005, 10:37 PM |
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Sep 13 2005, 02:39 AM
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#6
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AF Supreme Group: Members Posts: 12,135 Joined: 29-September 04 From: Tropical island |
QUOTE (purnomor @ Sep 12 2005, 10:26 PM) Medan, North Sumatra, is known for its sharp racial distinctions between native Batak, Chinese, Indian and Malay ethnic groups. Ironically, one of the city's most prominent areas, Kampung Keling, or Little India, has evolved to become an example of racial harmony between the ethnic Chinese and the once predominant Indian community Interesting. My mom is from Medan, though she lived there in a short periode, she knows this condition. Hmm..does she feel strange knowing the fact that she's married my dad who has a bit Indian blood..? |
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Sep 13 2005, 08:46 PM
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#7
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 6,819 Joined: 13-May 04 |
Wow.. so you are mixed Chinese, Dutch, Batak Karo, and Indian..
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Sep 13 2005, 09:27 PM
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#8
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AF Pro Group: Members Posts: 1,433 Joined: 4-September 04 |
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Sep 15 2005, 03:31 AM
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#9
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AF Supreme Group: Members Posts: 12,135 Joined: 29-September 04 From: Tropical island |
QUOTE (purnomor @ Sep 13 2005, 08:46 PM) My dad is fully gado-gado. He has Karonese, Acehnese, Dutch, Indian blood. On contrary, my mom is full Chinese but Indonesian in her heart. Technically my dad considers himself as a Karonese. |
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Nov 22 2005, 01:23 AM
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#10
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 8,099 Joined: 17-September 05 From: Kensington, Anzac Parade. |
furan: so you're half chinese? interesting.. I understand a bit of cantonese thanx to my chinese friends here in malaysia..
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Nov 22 2005, 05:00 AM
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#11
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AF Supreme Group: Members Posts: 12,135 Joined: 29-September 04 From: Tropical island |
^ I don't understand Cantonese/Mandarin at all
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Nov 26 2005, 11:38 AM
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#12
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AF Fiend Group: Banned Posts: 304 Joined: 8-January 05 |
Those Tamils in Medan could make a pretty good living by charging protection money from the chinese.
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Nov 26 2005, 12:24 PM
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#13
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AF Supreme Group: Members Posts: 16,645 Joined: 10-March 05 |
"The demography has also changed according to the latest census, with the ethnic Chinese outnumbering the 500 ethnic Indian families three-to-one."
lol from little india to chinatown. |
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Nov 26 2005, 12:26 PM
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#14
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AF Fiend Group: Banned Posts: 304 Joined: 8-January 05 |
Yup, those Tamils won't be able to protect those chinese much longer.
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Nov 26 2005, 12:35 PM
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#15
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AF Supreme Group: Members Posts: 16,645 Joined: 10-March 05 |
lol thats ok, nobody really cares about indonesia. Chinese there are just doing what Chinese do. we do it in every single country, we do it everywhere. if these guys are getting killed for it, well thats their problem. they can either fight back, or leave and take indonesias economy with them.
however, one day, when China actually starts recognizing indonesia, there will be ALOT more Chinese going there, once even more Chinese go, it will call for a Chinatown. once a Chinatown is set up, triads flock to it to extablish control, once the triads get in, there wont be any need for protection. |
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Nov 26 2005, 10:41 PM
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#16
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 6,819 Joined: 13-May 04 |
QUOTE when China actually starts recognizing indonesia, there will be ALOT more Chinese going there Hey buffoon, China already recognises Indonesia since Indonesia gained independence in 1945. The Indonesian Chinese community is already the biggest overseas Chinese population in the world (12 million people). Since there are more ethnic-Chinese in Indonesia than there are people in Hong Kong, our country is not short of ethnic-Chinese at all. About triads, there were pretty powerful Chinese triads in Medan from Dutch colonial era up until the 1960s (mostly running smuggling rings and opium dens), when all Chinese triad bosses were killed or put to jail and their turf taken over by native Batak gangs (Pemuda Pancasila) backed by the military. So, there is no hope for Chinese triads to compete with military-backed gangs. Additionally, in these post-Suharto days ethnic-Chinese in Indonesia has no need to pay "protection money" to these gangs unless they are doing something illegal like gambling, prostitution, or smuggling. There is no need to pay any "protection money" if you run a legitimate business, the police (or hiring private security guards if you have large premises) is more than enough. I don't think there are any Tamil triads in Indonesia, they are not that numerous so Tamils mostly remained loyal law-abiding citizens of Indonesia. Which is a smart move, several Tamils (Marimutu Sinivasan and Marimutu Manimaren), even managed to become close cronies of former Indonesian president Suharto. ![]() Marimutu Sinivasan, ethnic-Tamil conglomerate and close Suharto crony |
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Nov 26 2005, 10:52 PM
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#17
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AF Supreme Group: Members Posts: 16,645 Joined: 10-March 05 |
you know, i would LOVE to see some sources on all this stuff you talk about.
i was actually talking about that specific place, the little india or w/e, not the country as a whole. you dont get it do you... this issue is about something thats already won. Chinese already own most of indonesias economy. the race riots and stuff are just jealous people. its like, the game is over and the guy who lost is just bytching now. lol the Chinese dont need to do anything back to them. but the indonesians should be careful, because if the Chinese did leave and take their businesses, that would really fuk indonesias economy up. |
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Nov 26 2005, 11:24 PM
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#18
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AF Elite Group: Members Posts: 6,819 Joined: 13-May 04 |
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Nov 26 2005, 10:52 PM) you know, i would LOVE to see some sources on all this stuff you talk about. i was actually talking about that specific place, the little india or w/e, not the country as a whole. you dont get it do you... this issue is about something thats already won. Chinese already own most of indonesias economy. the race riots and stuff are just jealous people. its like, the game is over and the guy who lost is just bytching now. lol the Chinese dont need to do anything back to them. but the indonesians should be careful, because if the Chinese did leave and take their businesses, that would really fuk indonesias economy up. ^ typical racist Chinese superiority bullcrap. Obviously you know nothing about indonesia. Lemme give you quick tutorial to improve your knowledge, boy: 1) The race riots of 1998 has everything to do with the fall of Suharto, mostly because the country was bankrupted by a few corrupt ethnic-Chinese cronies of Suharto. 2) Indonesian economy is NOT dominated by ethnic-Chinese. Such misconcpetion arose because ethnic-Chinese mainly works in the retail sector, hence they have higher visibility than other ethnic groups in Indonesia. QUOTE Correcting the myth about the dominance of ethnic Chinese in Indonesian business Business World (Philippines), 8 January 1999 "It is true that even under the anti-Chinese sentiment of the Dutch colonial rule, many Chinese were able to survive and to prosper. There is at least an image that Chinese are rich and control the economy. Yet for me it is a question why most of the newspapers write '3.5% of Chinese in Indonesia is in control of 70% of the economy'," said Sulawesi (not his real name), a priest involved in the campaign against human rights abuses in Indonesia. "The truth is Suharto and his cronies together with several Chinese cronies under his control dominated the economy." Quoting research done by an Indonesian expatriate, Mr. Sulawesi said the source of the alleged fallacy is an Australian study that discounted all government and foreign listed companies when it tallied Indonesian companies. "Many companies were not listed (in the Australian study). From the listed companies, they did not count government and multinational companies," he said. The insight was provided through research done by George Aditjondro, who in his paper describes himself as a former business news reporter in the 1970s and 1980s, and presently teaches Sociology of Corruption at the University of Newcastle in Australia. According to Mr. Aditjondro, the myth - that the Chinese constitute only 3.5% of the population, but control 70% of Indonesia's economy - "has been repeated and repeated so often now by the world press, that everybody - including those sympathetic to the plight of Chinese Indonesians - seem to believe it." He traces this myth's provenance to a 1995 study of a foreign affairs and trade department official named Michael Backman. Otherwise an excellent research, Mr. Aditjondro said the study entitled Overseas Chinese Business Networks in Asia claimed that Chinese-Indonesians controlled about 73% of Indonesia's listed companies "by market capitalization." Thus by end-1993, they reportedly controlled about 68% of the country's "top 300 conglomerates and nine of the top 10 private sector groups." But unfortunately, those who came across the Backman study reportedly failed to note what the phrase 'market capitalization' meant, which, quoting from the same, amounted to "control by market capitalization has been determined after listed firms controlled by governments or foreigners are discounted." Mr. Aditjondro therefore concludes that the ethnic Chinese did not control the Indonesian economy, especially if one were to exclude from any listing companies such as Freeport McMorRan, which supposedly controls top revenue earner PT Freeport Indonesia, Inc. and Coca Cola Amatil, and state-owned oil firm Pertamina. If excluded, noted the sociology professor, then it would appear that ethnic Chinese - notably former Suharto associate Liem Sioe Liong - controlled the economy. Looking into the nine private sector groups supposedly owned by the ethnic Chinese, Mr. Aditjondro said the Australian study listed them thus: Salim, Sinar Mas, Danamon, Gajah Tunggal, Astra, Lippo, Dharmala, Barito Pacific, and Ongko Groups. The sociology professor then sampled two of these to show who really owned what. The Salim Group, for one, is reportedly controlled by Liem Sioe Liong, two pribumi relatives of then President Suharto, and Ibrahim Risyad, an Acehnese associate of one of Suharto's cousins. This cousin named Sudwikatmono, along with two of Suharto's siblings, namely Siti Hardiyanti Rukmana and Sigit Harjojudanto reportedly controlled Bank Central Asia, which recently went under following Suharto's resignation. On the other hand, Sinar Mas Group, while controlled by Chinese-Indonesian Eka Tjipta Widjaja, maintains ties with a real estate firm controlled by Suharto's stepbrother Probosutejo. Sinar Mas, the study also noted, maintains joint ventures with Salim in the chemical industry, and with companies of the Timsco Group controlled by President Habibie's brother Timmy. If true, this undoubtedly lends credence to the observation that the transition from Suharto to Habibie could not have been easier. Mr. Aditjondro noted that even new Golkar party chief Akbar Tanjung maintains shares with some of Salim's and Sinar Mas' firms. Meanwhile, Bimantara, which was the only pribumi-controlled group out of the 10 top private holding firms, is reportedly controlled by one of Suharto's son Bambang Trihatmojo. But due to a minor lapse on the part of journalists, said Mr. Sulawesi, this information was lost in the process. And those 'caught' holding the bag were the minority ethnic Chinese. "Unfortunately, the CEOs of many of the listed companies are Chinese. So they conclude that these are Chinese-owned. For some it is true since Chinese own 60% of the shares of a company. But they are all under the control of Suharto," said the activist priest. Of course, another multinational institution that has a lot of say with regard to where the Indonesian economy should proceed - and which also dealt with Suharto in the past - is likewise invisible to the ordinary pribumi ransacking the hapless retailer's store next door. After all, the International Monetary Fund, said Mr. Sulawesi, has exacerbated the crisis last May with its unpopular and anti-poor conditions for the financial rescue package of about US(USDollar) 43 billion. The Chinese-Indonesian priest knows too well that his parishioners do not have the slightest inkling that this behemoth institution - which has caused national economies to grow or go under - exists. "For simple people, it is easy to blame the Chinese retail store owner next door when they suddenly can't afford to buy their children's milk." http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/54b/085.html 3) Most Chinese-Indonesians like myself, have been thoroughly Indonesianised though acculturisation and intermarriage woth other Indonesian ethnic groups. So it is very difficult for ethnic-Chinese to emigrate from Indonesia because of very strong cultural and blood links with Indonesia. Expecting us to move away from Indonesia so easily is like expecting African-Americans to return to Africa with no difficulties. Most Chinese-Indonesians viewed themselves as Indonesians with equal rights and responsibilities like Indonesians from the other 700+ ethnic groups that lived in our country. We don't subscribe to bull$hit backward ideas of racism that puny-minded people like you espouse. This post has been edited by purnomor: Nov 26 2005, 11:34 PM |
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Nov 26 2005, 11:40 PM
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#19
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AF Supreme Group: Members Posts: 16,645 Joined: 10-March 05 |
you didnt disprove anything, i never said it was 70%. and just because Chinese dont own as much of the economy as thought (which btw was kinda weird anyways...70% is mind boggling) they still have a huge significance.
im still right, if the Chinese were to leave, it would still fuk indonesias economy up. of course they probably wont so theres no way to prove it. for now, China has other things to worry about then you guys. besides, you should know theres a difference between Chinese and true Chinese. its actually not as nationlistic or w/e as it sounds. quite simply true Chinese retain their culture and pride no matter what. according to you, you havent. you yourself said your indonesianised. |
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Nov 27 2005, 12:55 AM
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#20
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AF Pro Group: Banned Posts: 2,408 Joined: 20-July 04 |
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Nov 26 2005, 12:35 PM) once a Chinatown is set up, triads flock to it to extablish control, once the triads get in, there wont be any need for protection. Your triad just good for smuggling chinese women becoming prostitutes and smuggling drugs. In Jakarta your triad pawned by aborigin javanese rioters in 1998. In Medan, Sumatra pawned by Batak. Triad? dude you know nothing about Indos. Chinese in Indonesia looking for pretection using Triad? |
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