If you don't like, you can go from Malaysia, What is this ? Options

[swingdoctor]

DAP were the cause of everything bad that happen in Malaysia.

Betong, I don't mean to offend you but, this is one of the silliest things I've heard. Right out of the UMNO propaganda machine.

The problem with UMNO and BN is that whenever they look like losing a sig majority they change the rules.

[Betong]

Betong, I don't mean to offend you but, this is one of the silliest things I've heard. Right out of the UMNO propaganda machine.

The problem with UMNO and BN is that whenever they look like losing a sig majority they change the rules.

It clearly from UMNO man......

[swingdoctor]

It clearly from UMNO man......

Who? What do you mean?

[pancaindera]

I read something from thestar today, they say something is wrong with the electoral system. In all past elections the percentage of popular votes always differ greatly with the percentage of Dewan Rakyat seats won.

eg: in 1978 election, BN got 57.2% popular votes; Opposition got 42.8%
but BN manage still manage to obtain 84.4% Dewan Rakyat seats; Opposition only 15.6%

another eg: 2004 elections, BN: 63.9% popular votes; Opposition: 36.1%
Dewan Rakyat seats (as it also stands today), BN: 90.4%; Opposition: 9.6%

This means that many people actually voted for Opposition since independence. In the elections of 1982, 1986, 1990, 1995, and 1999, the Opposition actually manage to get 39.5%, 44.2%, 46.6%, 34.8%, 43.5% popular votes respectively. but in the end those votes would mean nothing cos the votes didnt translate into "voice of Rakyat" in the Parliament. as they only manage to get 14%, 16%, 30%, 16%, 23% of Dewan Rakyat seats. where to get "checks and balance"?

[Betong]

Unfortunately our electoral system based on "First-Past-The-Post" (FPTP) system. We're inherit that from British.. But even British have modified it to more voters friendly like "populor vote" which also given a share in Dewan Rakyat seats.

But I agree there must be serious reform in our election system...

Who? What do you mean?

What I mean.. that quatation was usual quote from UMNO suppoerter like me *oops*
But anyway we in Malaysia always thinking too much about parties that represent us. Boo to that.....

[swingdoctor]

Unfortunately our electoral system based on "First-Past-The-Post" (FPTP) system. We're inherit that from British.. But even British have modified it to more voters friendly like "populor vote" which also given a share in Dewan Rakyat seats.

But I agree there must be serious reform in our election system...
What I mean.. that quatation was usual quote from UMNO suppoerter like me *oops*
But anyway we in Malaysia always thinking too much about parties that represent us. Boo to that.....

Why do you vote UMNO?

UMNO will not change the rules to weaken its political position. In the recent past all it has done is change things to strengthen its position.

[maldini]

Why do you vote UMNO?

UMNO will not change the rules to weaken its political position. In the recent past all it has done is change things to strengthen its position.

cos only UMNO will be able to pertahan their tongkat

[fadlee]

why umno? because they are less conservative than PAS and keadilan is still not proven with their credibility.. i dont see any reason why malays would vote for DAP because they just want a muslim leader.. fullstop* its not about tongkat or anything my friend..

-just my freaking opinion

[Betong]

I wanna vote for DAP, but they are too racist...
This only my opinian lorr...
lmoa...

[maldini]

that's my freaking opinion as well LOL

[swingdoctor]

I wanna vote for DAP, but they are too racist...
This only my opinian lorr...
lmoa...

Why is DAP racist? I've not heard of them doing anything to indicate that they are racist

[Betong]

[forrestcat]

Hehe..eventhough many middle class including Chinese kutuk the government..most of their livelihood depend on BN.

All project and tender are in the hand of the current government.As u know,many in Malaysia depend on the construction sector....and we know who runs the construction sector----BN....who roll out $$$.When construction sector jatuh..the rakyat suffers.

In the end...$$$$ comes first...and BN comes into mind.

DAP,KeADILan and PAS...mane ada $$$$$....the truth hurts.

[ricochet]

Hehe..eventhough many middle class including Chinese kutuk the government..most of their livelihood depend on BN.

All project and tender are in the hand of the current government.As u know,many in Malaysia depend on the construction sector....and we know who runs the construction sector----BN....who roll out $$$.When construction sector jatuh..the rakyat suffers.

In the end...$$$$ comes first...and BN comes into mind.

DAP,KeADILan and PAS...mane ada $$$$$....the truth hurts.

Oh cum on Forrest.....the chinese are the only people on this planet where you can put anywhere and they will survive

Name one country in the world which dun have chinese. Even in Kota Bharu we have chinatown which many feels it never existed

The truth about Chinese businesses....they dun depend on govt tongkat....they work hard within their clanship

May be if the tongkat dun exist.....then I would say...the malays will be a lot teruk.....the truth hurts honey

[Malay_guy]

I don't mind if the special privileges enjoyed by the bumis be abolish and malaysians of all races have equal right in economy and education. but i will never agree if :-

- Islam should be divided from the state

- Islam position as malaysia's official religion should be revoke. in fact, i suggest that Islam should be Malaysia National sanctioned religion.

- Muslims are allow to convert to other religions.

I also suggest the creation of a Islamic Moral Enforcement Agency, an independent body that enforce the Islamic value within Muslim community with almost the same power as the police force. it will be able to detain offenders under it's own authority for a period of time to be determined. the agency will also be able to initiate an overt or covert surveillance just like our own PDRM. The creation of this agency will come in par with the creation of a new shariah law that promote harsher punishment for Islamic moral offenders.

This post has been edited by Malay_guy: Apr 17 2007, 09:20 PM

[swingdoctor]

I don't mind if the special privileges enjoyed by the bumis be abolish and malaysians of all races have equal right in economy and education. but i will never agree if :-

- Islam should be divided from the state

- Islam position as malaysia's official religion should be revoke. in fact, i suggest that Islam should be Malaysia National sanctioned religion.

- Muslims are allow to convert to other religions.

I also suggest the creation of a Islamic Moral Enforcement Agency, an independent body that enforce the Islamic value within Muslim community with almost the same power as the police force. it will be able to detain offenders under it's own authority for a period of time to be determined. the agency will also be able to initiate an overt or covert surveillance just like our own PDRM. The creation of this agency will come in par with the creation of a new shariah law that promote harsher punishment for Islamic moral offenders.

Then I think about 50% of all Muslim men in Malaysia above the age of 21 would at some point in time been in jail. Muslims not allowed to drink ya? What about smoke?

My belief is that it doesn't matter what you do out in the open but, how you feel inside, so therefore you cannot police religion.

Also, if Islam has special privilidges in Malaysia then by definition non believers of Islam will be discriminated against.

[Malay_guy]

Then I think about 50% of all Muslim men in Malaysia above the age of 21 would at some point in time been in jail. icon_wink.gif Muslims not allowed to drink ya? What about smoke?

If you have 10 children and then you find out that 7 of them is stealing. do you make it okay in your family to steal and exclude them from punishment?

when you drink, you lost your capability to think logically. now you say don't drink and drive, but when the man lost control of his action under the influence, how the he's going to realized that he actually enter a car and driving it? Islam didn't say that liquor doesn't have a benefits. it has! but the disadvantages far outweight the benefits and most of the benfits of liquor can still be achieve by other better means.

there's contention among top Ulama about smoking. the problem is, though smoking is bad to health, it doesn't take away somebody's ability to think just like liquor does. some say it's haram, some say it's makruh, and some say it's harus. but in Malaysia, we take makruh.

My belief is that it doesn't matter what you do out in the open but, how you feel inside, so therefore you cannot police religion.

Tell me, is it ever occur to you sometimes, when you saw your friend's pretty and sexy wife, that you want to have sex with her? or maybe is it occur sometimes in your mind, to rob a bank and become instantly rich? i bet it has. but what stop you from doing it? i bet partly (maybe mostly) is the thought that you may get punish for that act. that's the point of enforcement. can you say that those who commit crime don't know that crime is wrong? they have to live in a cave to think like that. what keep the crime rate at bay? it's the man in dark blue and the jails and the hanging rope. fear is the best motivation you could ever have. now we don't snatch people on the road and throw them in jail. there'll be trials and all. You know Islam also adopt the policy that you are innocent until you're proven guilty. in fact, i believe that it is far more difficult to convicts someone in Islamic law as compare to the civil law. i say it is what occur outside that matter most since that is where the real damage is done. what you have in your heart no one else know, but what you did with your hand many can see and that's what we try to control.

Also, if Islam has special privilidges in Malaysia then by definition non believers of Islam will be discriminated against.

I admit i have no credible answer for this one. suffice to say that we don't prosecute the followers of other religion, we don't force others to convert to Islam and they are free to practice their religion, as long as it was not too extreme (like sati). the only restriction is that we don't allow any other religion beside Islam to expand.

This post has been edited by Malay_guy: Apr 18 2007, 12:17 AM

[forrestcat]

Oh cum on Forrest.....the chinese are the only people on this planet where you can put anywhere and they will survive

Name one country in the world which dun have chinese. Even in Kota Bharu we have chinatown which many feels it never existed

The truth about Chinese businesses....they dun depend on govt tongkat....they work hard within their clanship

May be if the tongkat dun exist.....then I would say...the malays will be a lot teruk.....the truth hurts honey

I actually paraphrased this opinion from SSC, from a chinese malaysian forumer himself.....he said the fact is..many rich and upper middle class chinese(and ther companies) owe their projects to government projects and contracts..it's a mutual thing.Why do u think Malaysia keeps seeing new estate houses and skyscrapers being built all year round. If the building stops...some people will starve.

Remember that Mahathir bailed our many chinese associations and companies with a current value of RM30 billion today during the economic slumpdown in mid 1980s.....the malays not the only one with tongkats la .

This post has been edited by forrestcat: Apr 18 2007, 12:53 AM

[swingdoctor]

If you have 10 children and then you find out that 7 of them is stealing. do you make it okay in your family to steal and exclude them from punishment?

Stealing affects other people, choice of religion and sincerity of belief only concerns that one person.

Tell me, is it ever occur to you sometimes, when you saw your friend's pretty and sexy wife, that you want to have sex with her? or maybe is it occur sometimes in your mind, to rob a bank and become instantly rich? i bet it has. but what stop you from doing it? i bet partly (maybe mostly) is the thought that you may get punish for that act. that's the point of enforcement. can you say that those who commit crime don't know that crime is wrong? they have to live in a cave to think like that. what keep the crime rate at bay? it's the man in dark blue and the jails and the hanging rope. fear is the best motivation you could ever have.

Sure if it is a crime just enact it in the general law, not specific for one religion. Religious law, I believe should not be forced onto people regardless of belief.

i say it is what occur outside that matter most since that is where the real damage is done. what you have in your heart no one else know, but what you did with your hand many can see and that's what we try to control.

If some one outwardly goes to the mosque to pray but while he is in the mosque, he is thinking about the newest issue of Playboy. If he doesn't drink outside the house but drinks like a fish at home, what is the point. Religion is in your heart, not for show.

I admit i have no credible answer for this one. suffice to say that we don't prosecute the followers of other religion, we don't force others to convert to Islam and they are free to practice their religion, as long as it was not too extreme (like sati). the only restriction is that we don't allow any other religion beside Islam to expand.

At the moment Islam is free to propogate in Malaysia but not other religions. The rights of Muslims and of Islam is protected by law but not any other religion (eg a person must covvert to Islam to marry one. If you don't bring your child up as a Muslim they can be taken away from you). At the moment by law any new housing development must provide land for free for a mosque to be built for which the govnt provides funds while just to get permission from the govnt to buld a Church takes forever and they make it very difficult.

I say all of this without malice but to highlight the discrepencies between religions.

[Malay_guy]

If some one outwardly goes to the mosque to pray but while he is in the mosque, he is thinking about the newest issue of Playboy. If he doesn't drink outside the house but drinks like a fish at home, what is the point. Religion is in your heart, not for show.

as i said, we deal with what we can see. if he do it in secret, public don't see it and there'll be no one who's being offended or some misconception occur that the misconduct is acceptable. if he pretend to pray in mosque, it's okay with us. we take it he's really sincere regardless of what he has in his heart. a boy in school may hate the teachers, but as long as he doesn't project those hatred into physical action, it's okay for the school principal.

Sure if it is a crime just enact it in the general law, not specific for one religion. Religious law, I believe should not be forced onto people regardless of belief.

I believe many religious misconduct did affect the society as whole. Islam is in it's basis is a guidance for human conduct and a law unto itself. it has been and it will always be until the end of time. when islam was vigorously adopted, muslims have rise to it's golden ages. unlike medieval christian, Islam didn't limit the bloom of knowledge and doesn't need a reformation or renaissance or whatever.

now many moral misconduct done always at some point effect the society as a whole. have u ever heard of "degradation of moral value among youth"? now where that this come from? it came from uncontrolable freedom. this thing expand like a plague since human are a social creatures, one people doing unproper thing may influence his friend to do so. it's like a drug. once you taste it, you'll be lust for it and our point is to prevent the first taste.