New Theory on Angkor, Who were the last Varman kings? Options

[SabaiSabai]

Sabaisabai- have you ever watch the movie call villager warrior? It kinda cool movie from Thailand!

Yeah I have, it was a turd movie to stir up patriotism in the people. complete fabrication though lol girls were cute

[LoveIsAllAround]

Siem reap was name by king Arngchan during Angkor it was call preahperhsnuka so why you like to play around with the sound of the word?

That's also true, but Old Chinese record that Chenla (Chen Lap) is from the sound of Siem Reap. if you think Chenla=khmer, then Siem=Funan. But your concept of Siem=Tai. So, Funan=Tai. LMAO!!! This gonna be crazy!

[LoveIsAllAround]

From the Chinese on how khmer name came about.

. In the Mon-Khmer ethnic studies, we found that the Mon in the language family is generally referred to as "deceive" or "Mon". Khmers in the Tang Dynasty in Chinese history books called the "Court Mao" and "guitar contempt," but does not explicitly call before Tang. The name of the guitar contempt from the Khmer According Cambodian scholars Dengye, that, in ancient Khmer society, the relatively high status of women often called me sound contempt (ie, head, leader of Italy). Evolved from K + me, the process is k + me-Kme-Khnle-Khmer Khmer (Khmer) term, but in the early Khmer call may only be referred to for me (sound contempt), ancient Khmer society for a long period of time, the status of women is higher, this is a stage of social development, the second is in Khmer, k for Authors prefix from the stressed role.

"80后"教师和"90后"高职生如何构建和... 一支。正因为闽越的称呼是特指的,有明确的地理区域的限定,一般也不用“闽越”这样的称呼来指代云南的越人,而常用僚、越来指代,到了后期则出现直接根据不同地理分布来称呼不同地区越人的趋向,如称永昌郡的越人为“滇越”。结合以上分析我们认为,用“闽越”来称呼永昌的越人不大可能,因此在此处“闽越”应划为“闽、越”,即应该是两个族群的代称,而不是指代一个族群。因此,建武二十三年汉设益州西部属国时,其地有闽、越、濮和鸠僚4种民族群体。越、鸠僚、濮在史书中都有记载,其源流很清楚,有疑问的是闽这一族群的归属。西南史料对“闽”的记载很少,只有两处:除建武二十三年的记载外,永平十二年还出现了“闽濮”的记载,根据史料我们很难判断“闽”的族属。在对孟高棉语民族的研究中,我们发现该语族中的孟人一般被称为“蒙人”或“孟人”。高棉人在唐代中国史籍中被称为“阁茂”和“吉蔑”,但唐以前的称呼不明确。“吉蔑”这一名称来自高棉语,据柬埔寨学者登耶认为,在古代高棉人社会中,地位比较高的妇女往往被称为me音蔑(即头头、领导者之意)。高棉人(Khmer)一词,就是从K+me演变而来的,其过程是k+me—Kme—Khnle—Khmer,但在对早期高棉人的称呼完全有可能只简称为me(音蔑),一是因为古代高棉人社会中有相当长一段时间,妇女的地位都比较高,这是其社会发展的一个阶段性的特点,二是在高棉语中,k只用来作词前缀,起强调作用。(剩余2157字)

I found the original...

care to conclude it?

The spread of the legend is only one level of cultural exchange, Xinan Yi Biography, "Han said:" (Ailao) species were all portrayed their body like Longwen "," Huayang South Africa and Chi Yongchang County said: "Ailao arm tibia inscriptions. And Pu more derived from the dragon totem worship the tattoo of the vulgar phase consistent combination of the legend in the communication process from the initial touch wood children gradually join the driftwood of the dragon of the factors, you can believe that the spread of the legend of the last common totem worship of the gradual formation of laid the conditions. With the integration of the Pu and the Mon-Khmer ethnic, historical records, with a new name to refer to the generation of this is forming a community of subtle changes which can occur from historical records in this part of the Pu and the Mon-Khmer ethnic records confirmed. According to South Africa and "records, Jianwu 23 years (47), Ailao Ministry first allegiance to the Han Dynasty set up Yizhou western country of its land in Fujian Province, Vietnam, Pu and dove Liao. Punctuate where there are two methods, one designated as "Fujian Province, Vietnam, Pu", the other designated as "Fujian and Pu", namely, Fujian and Fujian and the Baiyue an, mainly in Fujian. "Dictionary" is "Min" note containing: Fujian Province, southeast of the more snake species, indicating that in Fujian and to look in the southeast coast is located in the southeast coast, more national one. Fujian and the call is unspecified, there are clear limits of the geographic area, generally do not have the title of "Fujian and this means on behalf of Yunnan, the more people, common Liao, increasingly refer to the late directly tend to call more people of different regions according to different geographical distribution, such as saying that the more artificial Yongchang County Yunnan and Vietnam. Combination of the above analysis we call Yongchang the more people "Minyue" unlikely, so in here, "Fujian and should be designated as the" Fujian Province, Vietnam ", that should be said on behalf of the two groups, rather than to on behalf of an ethnic group. Therefore, Jianwu twenty-three years, the western Han Dynasty set up Yizhou vassal, to four kinds of ethnic groups in Fujian Province, Vietnam, Pu, and dove Liao. Vietnam dove Liao, Pu are recorded in the history books, its origins are very clear, there is doubt the attribution of this community in Fujian Province. Southwest of historical records on the "Min" rarely, and only two: In addition to the Jianwu recorded in twenty-three years, Yongping also appeared in the records of the Fujian Province Pu years, according to historical data is difficult to judge the "Min" The ethnic origins. In the Mon-Khmer ethnic studies, we found that the Mon in the language family is generally referred to as "deceive" or "Mon". Khmers in the Tang Dynasty in Chinese history books called the "Court Mao" and "guitar contempt," but does not explicitly call before Tang. The name of the guitar contempt from the Khmer According Cambodian scholars Dengye, that, in ancient Khmer society, the relatively high status of women often called me sound contempt (ie, head, leader of Italy). Evolved from K + me, the process is k + me-Kme-Khnle-Khmer Khmer (Khmer) term, but in the early Khmer call may only be referred to for me (sound contempt), ancient Khmer society for a long period of time, the status of women is higher, this is a stage of social development, the second is in Khmer, k for Authors prefix from the stressed role.

From the perspective of the phonology of these several name Archaic analysis found the same initial consonant of "Min" and "Cotton", similar rhyme, the Wenyuan next turn; "cotton" and "contempt" the same initial consonant rhyme similar January rotating the same; "cotton" and "Meng" Initials, similar rhyme, and the same rhyme abdomen, the coda is nasal. From the analysis of the Archaic, "Min", "cotton" and "contempt", "Meng" the words in the ancient phonology pronunciation is similar to the sound is just a sound turn.

Combination of the above analysis, we believe that the Han Dynasty, ancient Khmer because society is in the high period of the Status of Women, or the impact of this particular stage of development called me (sound contempt). The pronunciation of "Meng" and "contempt" are similar, so enter the Mon-Khmer ethnic groups in Yunnan after according to their pronunciation unified translation a sound revolution "Min" or direct reduction to read Mengji contempt for the "Min", as will The Scythians contractions as a "plug". Further to the Tang Dynasty is known as the guitar contempt. Therefore, the Jianwu twenty three years of the "Min" should in fact be a nation of the Mon-Khmer.

传说的传播还只是文化交流的一个层面,《后汉书·西南夷列传》说:“(哀牢)种人皆刻画其身,象龙文”,《华阳国志·南中志》“永昌郡”说:“哀牢臂胫刻文”。这与濮越源于龙图腾崇拜的纹身之俗相一致,结合这个传说在传播过程中由最初触木生子后逐渐加入沉木化龙的因素,可以认为传说的传播为最后共同图腾崇拜的逐渐形成奠定了条件。 　　随着濮与孟高棉民族的融合,史籍中开始用一个新的名称来指代这一正在形成中的共同体,这可以从史籍对这一部分濮与孟高棉民族的记载发生的微妙变化得到证实。 　　据《南中志》记载,在建武二十三年(47),哀牢部第一次归附,汉设益州西部属国时,其地有闽、越、濮和鸠僚。此处有两种断句方法,其一划为“闽、越、濮”,其二划为“闽越濮”,即闽越。闽越是百越的一支,主要分布在福建。故《说文解字》“闽”字条载:“闽,东南越,蛇种”,这说明闽越的地望在东南沿海,是越民族中分布在东南沿海的 一支。正因为闽越的称呼是特指的,有明确的地理区域的限定,一般也不用“闽越”这样的称呼来指代云南的越人,而常用僚、越来指代,到了后期则出现直接根据不同地理分布来称呼不同地区越人的趋向,如称永昌郡的越人为“滇越”。结合以上分析我们认为,用“闽越”来称呼永昌的越人不大可能,因此在此处“闽越”应划为“闽、越”,即应该是两个族群的代称,而不是指代一个族群。因此,建武二十三年汉设益州西部属国时,其地有闽、越、濮和鸠僚4种民族群体。越、鸠僚、濮在史书中都有记载,其源流很清楚,有疑问的是闽这一族群的归属。西南史料对“闽”的记载很少,只有两处:除建武二十三年的记载外,永平十二年还出现了“闽濮”的记载,根据史料我们很难判断“闽”的族属。在对孟高棉语民族的研究中,我们发现该语族中的孟人一般被称为“蒙人”或“孟人”。高棉人在唐代中国史籍中被称为“阁茂”和“吉蔑”,但唐以前的称呼不明确。“吉蔑”这一名称来自高棉语,据柬埔寨学者登耶认为,在古代高棉人社会中,地位比较高的妇女往往被称为me音蔑(即头头、领导者之意)。高棉人(Khmer)一词,就是从K+me演变而来的,其过程是k+me—Kme—Khnle—Khmer,但在对早期高棉人的称呼完全有可能只简称为me(音蔑),一是因为古代高棉人社会中有相当长一段时间,妇女的地位都比较高,这是其社会发展的一个阶段性的特点,二是在高棉语中,k只用来作词前缀,起强调作用。 　　
　　　　
　　　　从音韵学的角度对这几个名称的上古音进行分析发现,“闽”和“棉”声母相同,韵部相近,文元旁转;“棉”和“蔑”声母相同,韵部相近,元月对转;“棉”和“孟”声母相同,韵部相近,韵腹相同,韵尾都是鼻音。因此,从上古音的分析,“闽”、“棉”、“蔑”、“孟”这几个字在古音学中读音相近,发音都只是一音之转。 　　
　　　　
　　　　结合以上分析,我们认为两汉时期,古代高棉人因其社会正处于妇女地位较高的时期,或受这一特殊发展阶段的影响而被称为me(音蔑)。“孟”人的发音与“蔑”相近,因此孟高棉民族进入云南后就按其读音统一转译为一音之转的“闽”或直接缩读孟吉蔑为“闽”,就像将斯基泰缩读为“塞”一样。到唐代则进一步被称为吉蔑。故建武二十三年的“闽”人实际上应该是孟高棉语的民族。 　　
　　　　

[SabaiSabai]

I found the original...

care to conclude it?

The spread of the legend is only one level of cultural exchange, Xinan Yi Biography, "Han said:" (Ailao) species were all portrayed their body like Longwen "," Huayang South Africa and Chi Yongchang County said: "Ailao arm tibia inscriptions. And Pu more derived from the dragon totem worship the tattoo of the vulgar phase consistent combination of the legend in the communication process from the initial touch wood children gradually join the driftwood of the dragon of the factors, you can believe that the spread of the legend of the last common totem worship of the gradual formation of laid the conditions. With the integration of the Pu and the Mon-Khmer ethnic, historical records, with a new name to refer to the generation of this is forming a community of subtle changes which can occur from historical records in this part of the Pu and the Mon-Khmer ethnic records confirmed. According to South Africa and "records, Jianwu 23 years (47), Ailao Ministry first allegiance to the Han Dynasty set up Yizhou western country of its land in Fujian Province, Vietnam, Pu and dove Liao. Punctuate where there are two methods, one designated as "Fujian Province, Vietnam, Pu", the other designated as "Fujian and Pu", namely, Fujian and Fujian and the Baiyue an, mainly in Fujian. "Dictionary" is "Min" note containing: Fujian Province, southeast of the more snake species, indicating that in Fujian and to look in the southeast coast is located in the southeast coast, more national one. Fujian and the call is unspecified, there are clear limits of the geographic area, generally do not have the title of "Fujian and this means on behalf of Yunnan, the more people, common Liao, increasingly refer to the late directly tend to call more people of different regions according to different geographical distribution, such as saying that the more artificial Yongchang County Yunnan and Vietnam. Combination of the above analysis we call Yongchang the more people "Minyue" unlikely, so in here, "Fujian and should be designated as the" Fujian Province, Vietnam ", that should be said on behalf of the two groups, rather than to on behalf of an ethnic group. Therefore, Jianwu twenty-three years, the western Han Dynasty set up Yizhou vassal, to four kinds of ethnic groups in Fujian Province, Vietnam, Pu, and dove Liao. Vietnam dove Liao, Pu are recorded in the history books, its origins are very clear, there is doubt the attribution of this community in Fujian Province. Southwest of historical records on the "Min" rarely, and only two: In addition to the Jianwu recorded in twenty-three years, Yongping also appeared in the records of the Fujian Province Pu years, according to historical data is difficult to judge the "Min" The ethnic origins. In the Mon-Khmer ethnic studies, we found that the Mon in the language family is generally referred to as "deceive" or "Mon". Khmers in the Tang Dynasty in Chinese history books called the "Court Mao" and "guitar contempt," but does not explicitly call before Tang. The name of the guitar contempt from the Khmer According Cambodian scholars Dengye, that, in ancient Khmer society, the relatively high status of women often called me sound contempt (ie, head, leader of Italy). Evolved from K + me, the process is k + me-Kme-Khnle-Khmer Khmer (Khmer) term, but in the early Khmer call may only be referred to for me (sound contempt), ancient Khmer society for a long period of time, the status of women is higher, this is a stage of social development, the second is in Khmer, k for Authors prefix from the stressed role.

From the perspective of the phonology of these several name Archaic analysis found the same initial consonant of "Min" and "Cotton", similar rhyme, the Wenyuan next turn; "cotton" and "contempt" the same initial consonant rhyme similar January rotating the same; "cotton" and "Meng" Initials, similar rhyme, and the same rhyme abdomen, the coda is nasal. From the analysis of the Archaic, "Min", "cotton" and "contempt", "Meng" the words in the ancient phonology pronunciation is similar to the sound is just a sound turn.

Combination of the above analysis, we believe that the Han Dynasty, ancient Khmer because society is in the high period of the Status of Women, or the impact of this particular stage of development called me (sound contempt). The pronunciation of "Meng" and "contempt" are similar, so enter the Mon-Khmer ethnic groups in Yunnan after according to their pronunciation unified translation a sound revolution "Min" or direct reduction to read Mengji contempt for the "Min", as will The Scythians contractions as a "plug". Further to the Tang Dynasty is known as the guitar contempt. Therefore, the Jianwu twenty three years of the "Min" should in fact be a nation of the Mon-Khmer.

传说的传播还只是文化交流的一个层面,《后汉书·西南夷列传》说:“(哀牢)种人皆刻画其身,象龙文”,《华阳国志·南中志》“永昌郡”说:“哀牢臂胫刻文”。这与濮越源于龙图腾崇拜的纹身之俗相一致,结合这个传说在传播过程中由最初触木生子后逐渐加入沉木化龙的因素,可以认为传说的传播为最后共同图腾崇拜的逐渐形成奠定了条件。 　　随着濮与孟高棉民族的融合,史籍中开始用一个新的名称来指代这一正在形成中的共同体,这可以从史籍对这一部分濮与孟高棉民族的记载发生的微妙变化得到证实。 　　据《南中志》记载,在建武二十三年(47),哀牢部第一次归附,汉设益州西部属国时,其地有闽、越、濮和鸠僚。此处有两种断句方法,其一划为“闽、越、濮”,其二划为“闽越濮”,即闽越。闽越是百越的一支,主要分布在福建。故《说文解字》“闽”字条载:“闽,东南越,蛇种”,这说明闽越的地望在东南沿海,是越民族中分布在东南沿海的 一支。正因为闽越的称呼是特指的,有明确的地理区域的限定,一般也不用“闽越”这样的称呼来指代云南的越人,而常用僚、越来指代,到了后期则出现直接根据不同地理分布来称呼不同地区越人的趋向,如称永昌郡的越人为“滇越”。结合以上分析我们认为,用“闽越”来称呼永昌的越人不大可能,因此在此处“闽越”应划为“闽、越”,即应该是两个族群的代称,而不是指代一个族群。因此,建武二十三年汉设益州西部属国时,其地有闽、越、濮和鸠僚4种民族群体。越、鸠僚、濮在史书中都有记载,其源流很清楚,有疑问的是闽这一族群的归属。西南史料对“闽”的记载很少,只有两处:除建武二十三年的记载外,永平十二年还出现了“闽濮”的记载,根据史料我们很难判断“闽”的族属。在对孟高棉语民族的研究中,我们发现该语族中的孟人一般被称为“蒙人”或“孟人”。高棉人在唐代中国史籍中被称为“阁茂”和“吉蔑”,但唐以前的称呼不明确。“吉蔑”这一名称来自高棉语,据柬埔寨学者登耶认为,在古代高棉人社会中,地位比较高的妇女往往被称为me音蔑(即头头、领导者之意)。高棉人(Khmer)一词,就是从K+me演变而来的,其过程是k+me—Kme—Khnle—Khmer,但在对早期高棉人的称呼完全有可能只简称为me(音蔑),一是因为古代高棉人社会中有相当长一段时间,妇女的地位都比较高,这是其社会发展的一个阶段性的特点,二是在高棉语中,k只用来作词前缀,起强调作用。 　　
　　　　
　　　　从音韵学的角度对这几个名称的上古音进行分析发现,“闽”和“棉”声母相同,韵部相近,文元旁转;“棉”和“蔑”声母相同,韵部相近,元月对转;“棉”和“孟”声母相同,韵部相近,韵腹相同,韵尾都是鼻音。因此,从上古音的分析,“闽”、“棉”、“蔑”、“孟”这几个字在古音学中读音相近,发音都只是一音之转。 　　
　　　　
　　　　结合以上分析,我们认为两汉时期,古代高棉人因其社会正处于妇女地位较高的时期,或受这一特殊发展阶段的影响而被称为me(音蔑)。“孟”人的发音与“蔑”相近,因此孟高棉民族进入云南后就按其读音统一转译为一音之转的“闽”或直接缩读孟吉蔑为“闽”,就像将斯基泰缩读为“塞”一样。到唐代则进一步被称为吉蔑。故建武二十三年的“闽”人实际上应该是孟高棉语的民族。 　　
　　　　

????????????????????

I think it needs rewrite or at least have it translated properly lol even I could barely understand it.

[SabaiSabai]

After reading it through it seems it's taking Khmer scholars idea of k+me as the source for the connection. But wait... Isn't Khmer supposed to be from kambu+mera???? Lol

I would love to find out the origin of the word khmer. There is so much bull$hit floating about regarding it lol but what we do know is it didn't appear before the 11th century.

[PeaceMan]

Siem Reap, destruction of Siam (the battle area of Khmer and SIem), the Angkor region. If Chenla was truly Khmer, then Siem must be Funan. LOL

It was SiemRatch for local ,till French changed it to SiemRiep...

[SEAhistory]

People of Funan spoke the same language as people of Tun Sun. People of Tun Sun do not speak Malay.

Good enough? dumbass lol

Haha, youre lying!!!! The Chinese spoke of a language similar, but DIFFERENT! So if the people of Tun Sun spoke Mon, the Funanaese must have spoken Khmer (both austroasiatic, austronesean very different)!!

[SEAhistory]

Tell me why your fake khmer empire, conclude Chaiya and Nakorn sri thammarat, lower burma (Tenneserim) and the whole Laos? What's evidence that you make them khmer?

because the Chinese spoke of people coming from South-Cambodia and conquerring the Malay peninsula, and Isanavarman built Isanapura, I have shown you that everything came from South_cambodia, so thats the source.

[SabaiSabai]

Haha, youre lying!!!! The Chinese spoke of a language similar, but DIFFERENT! So if the people of Tun Sun spoke Mon, the Funanaese must have spoken Khmer (both austroasiatic, austronesean very different)!!

Actually they wrote "very similar" Either way it's not Malay. There is no Khmer presence in the Malay peninsular. That and you also argue that Mon is a very different language to Khmer. Now it is a similar language? Lol back tracking?

That and the fact Khmer language appeared with the rise of Chenla, NOT Funan.

This post has been edited by SabaiSabai: Feb 19 2012, 01:22 PM

[chadwarden]

Actually they wrote "very similar" Either way it's not Malay. There is no Khmer presence in the Malay peninsular. That and you also argue that Mon is a very different language to Khmer. Now it is a similar language? Lol back tracking?

That and the fact Khmer language appeared with the rise of Chenla, NOT Funan.

of course we can all compare it to that grandeur record of proto tai being spoken .. oh wait there is no records of proto tai being spoken in funan chenla or angkor

this is really getting rediculous. the chinese being so scholarly never once admit or mention the leaders of funan to appear as a proto tai which they already have come in contact with tai peoples before so they know this. nor at angkor either. so these proto tai leaders of both places just managed to learn khmer and speak it perfectly huh? and changed their appearace as well i guess also.

lol the chinese fail to notice this guy



is leading the "dark skin" "wavy hair" funanese right? and speaks a completely different language.

i mean do you guys actually think at all? the chinese know tai peoples already from southern china this is a known fact. that is the tai peoples home. they have written about the tai people many times but they fail to notice that man leads the funnanese?

why would it be recorded that angkor was sacked by ayuthaya? why would the so called siam sack their own kingdom? does that make any sense to you either? to me it doesnt

but its fun to see more off the wall theories it makes you guys look so special at least your thinking unlike your stupid lazy pathetic thai scholars and populace that to this day just accept the name khmer and khmer empire and angkor to be true right?

This post has been edited by chadwarden: Feb 19 2012, 03:52 PM

[SEAhistory]

Actually they wrote "very similar" Either way it's not Malay. There is no Khmer presence in the Malay peninsular. That and you also argue that Mon is a very different language to Khmer. Now it is a similar language? Lol back tracking?

That and the fact Khmer language appeared with the rise of Chenla, NOT Funan.

Why would they say very similar, but ditinguished it as very similar. It means they didn't speak the same language, since they were not able to understand ech other. And also, why didn't the Chinese ever wrote about a Thai leader controlling the people.

The Sanskrit used was different in the different kingdoms, and the Sanskrit of Funan has been recognised as the forerunner of Chenla- and Kamboja-Sanskrit. The fact that the language only appeared after Funan became known as Chenla, can mean two things: 1) Funan was multi-ethnic and there was a Lingua Franca, and Khmer leaders kicked out Malays and decided to use their language as Lingua Franca. 2) The Khmer written language is older, but was not widely used for inscriptions and only banana-leaves, The oldest evidence comes from inscriptions came from about 6th century, so we don't know how long it has been used.

So you don't know what other language was used by the Funanese, or do you have evidence they spoke another language? The Chinese never said the Funanese spoke another language then Chenla.

[KhmerBoi]

After reading it through it seems it's taking Khmer scholars idea of k+me as the source for the connection. But wait... Isn't Khmer supposed to be from kambu+mera???? Lol

I would love to find out the origin of the word khmer. There is so much bull$hit floating about regarding it lol but what we do know is it didn't appear before the 11th century.

Only if you believe France!!! ^^

[KhmerBoi]

It was SiemRatch for local ,till French changed it to SiemRiep...

PeaceMan, Don't make a joke here!!!! Siem Reap this name was change since King AngChan in 16 century A.D...

[KhmerBoi]

Actually they wrote "very similar" Either way it's not Malay. There is no Khmer presence in the Malay peninsular. That and you also argue that Mon is a very different language to Khmer. Now it is a similar language? Lol back tracking?

That and the fact Khmer language appeared with the rise of Chenla, NOT Funan.

So why there is some Mon-Khmer living Malay Peninsular in present day? and why Thai dialect in Southern Thailand (Malay Peninsular) have some Khmer words which central Thai don't have..????? see? you jsut ignore everything which is prove that Khmer!!! you can try more harder if you want!! convert those Thai to stop using Khmer word like you already done to Isan (Lao)!!!!

[Leeporter]

Meanchey means what?

I see other towns named Bantey Meanchey and this translates as fortress of victory... how the hell is Udong Meanchey translates as succession of kings and Banteay Meanchey meaning fortress of victory.

Both containing the word Meanchey o.O

Chey = Chai = Victory?

Mean replace "ea" with "a" Man

Meanchey in Thai would be Manchai? to mean constant victory? lol

No, not Manchai, it's U-Thong Mee Chai อู่ทองมีชัย or the victory of King U-Thong named after King U-Thong after he took Yasodhrarapura back and drove the Khmer to move down south to Phnom Pehn.

[Leeporter]

So why there is some Mon-Khmer living Malay Peninsular in present day? and why Thai dialect in Southern Thailand (Malay Peninsular) have some Khmer words which central Thai don't have..????? see? you jsut ignore everything which is prove that Khmer!!! you can try more harder if you want!! convert those Thai to stop using Khmer word like you already done to Isan (Lao)!!!!

Ask me, I am a southerner.

Because Funan originated in southern Thailand (Chaiya to be precise) before they expanded to Cambodia and S. VN.

When Funan was broken, the rulers of Funan fled back to Chaiya to form Srivijaya and webt back to take Chenla as its vassal state.

It means, you Khmer took some words from Southern Thailand, not the other way round, retard.

[KhmerBoi]

Ask me, I am a southerner.

Because Funan originated in southern Thailand (Chaiya to be precise) before they expanded to Cambodia and S. VN.

When Funan was broken, the rulers of Funan fled back to Chaiya to form Srivijaya and webt back to take Chenla as its vassal state.

It means, you Khmer took some words from Southern Thailand, not the other way round, retard.

so then you can go and check in your NorkorSrithamarath NAtional Museum!!

[Leeporter]

Btw, Srivijaya was formerly Kantoli

Thank you.

Kantoli = Kantuli or คันธุลี an ancient state north of Pan Pan

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B9%81%E0%...%B8%A5%E0%B8%B5

It's today a district in Suratthani called "Khan Thuli".

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%AA%E0%...%B8%A5%E0%B8%B5

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT...OTEIpyGn5cWy7eg

Thank you for helping me to prove that Srivijaya was in Suratthani.


This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 19 2012, 08:45 PM

[Leeporter]

So, during my absence, have any Khmer member here disproved the evidences I'd showed earlier that Siam = Srivijaya = Funan?

This is an excerpt from a book:

Śrīvijaya―towards Chaiya - Renewed 05 Jan 2011
Takashi Suzuki
http://www7.plala.or.jp/seareview/newpage6Sri2011Chaiya.html

There are so many misunderstandings and confusion on the early stage history of Southeast Asia. This situation has not been improved so much during recent one hundred years. In this paper what I try to discuss is on the history of the trade between the East and West in the Śrīvijaya times at the same time I would like to correct the location of capital of Shih-li-fo-shi from Palembang to Chaiya. The Palembang Hypothesis presented by G. Coedès and has been supported by most historians is not rational from many aspects and it is proved apparent mistake. I-Ching and the “Xin (New) Tang-Shu ” wrote that Shih-li-fo-shi was located in the northern hemisphere, in other words in the Malay Peninsula. The history of Southeast Asia has been distorted by many wrong hypotheses. The most serious error is the ‘Palembang Hypothesis’.

However the historians who have asserted that the capital of Shih-li-fo-shi located at Chaiya are very few. Dr. Quaritch Wales and Dr. R.C. Majumdar are rare exceptions. In Thailand, there may be more, for instance Prince Mon Chao Chand Chirayu Rajani and Dr. Piriya Krairiksh who have English publications. But it is not easy for us, common readers to access their books.

The characteristics of my paper are mostly re-appraisal of the Chinese textual evidence from the viewpoint of an economist and economic historian on the region. At the same time, I tried to fix the location of the important states recorded in the Chinese annals. Without accurate identification of the major states, the history of Southeast Asia cannot be discussed and clarified.

Shih-li-fo-shi in the Tang times was well known as Śrivijaya. San-fo-chi which appeared in 904 at the last stage of the Tang Dynasty (618~907) was acknowledged by the Tang officials as Śrivijaya. And in the Song times, it was recognized as San-fo-chi, which according to Chau-Ju-ka, started sending embassies to China since 904.

Between Shih-li-fo-shi and San-fo-chi , there was ‘new Kha-ling (Śailendra). They were all Śrivijaya. Śrivijaya consists of more than fourteen city-states most of them were ‘port states’ which more or less were taking part in international trade. The champion states of them were, in Shih-li-fo-shi times Chaiya, in Kha-ling times central Java and in San-fo-chi times Jambi and Kedah.Through the three stages of the history of Śrīvijaya, all of the leading kings were probably Funan’s royal descendants who were devotees of Mahāyāna Buddhism.

The rulers of Funan, after kicked out from Cambodia, fled to their vassal state, namely Pan-pan. At the middle of the seventh century, they established a new state called Shih-li-fo-shi. Before making Shih-li-fo-shi, they merged other states in the Malay Peninsula. At the end of 670 A.D. only the name of Shih-li-fo-shi remained in the middle of the Peninsula, which was recorded in Chinese annals as tributary country. Before that Chi-tu , Tan-tan and Pan-pan or Ban-ban disappeared. Shih-li-fo-shi opened its window to the Strait of Malacca, after merged Kedah, which probably had been the capital of Chi-tu. It was necessary for Shih-li-fo-shi to control the Malacca Strait to purchase the western commodities coming across the Bay of Bengal. In the middle of the seventh century, the presence of the western countries, Persia and Arab, increased in the Tang court. This means comparative decrease of Shih-li-fo-shi’s status in the Tang court.
--


Suzuki claimed that all of the leading kings of Srivijaya were Funan’s royal descendants who were devotees of Mahāyāna Buddhism and the rulers of Funan were kicked out from (today) Cambodia to form Srivijaya.

He pointed out that Srivijaya in the Chinese record consisted of 3 periods: Shih-li-fo-shi, Kha-ling and San-fo-shi, with center of power in different places throughout Malay penninsular and Central Java.

We will come back to talk about the center of Srivijaya later to see where it was in each period.

But for now, if what Suzuki said is true that kings of the 3 periods of Srivijaya were Funan’s royal descendants who fled from Funan in Cambodia to Chaiya (Pan Pan) to form Srivijaya.

And from the following record by the Chinese, we know that in its last period, Srivijaya was changed to "Sian-Lor" or Siam-Lavo.

"During the winter of 961 A.D. the tribute was sent by a king called Che-li Wou-ye. These ambassadors reported that the kingdom of San-fo-tsi was also called Sien-lieou."


This paragraph recorded by Chineses, tells us a lot!

1) It proves that Srivijaya = Siam-Lavo!!!!

2) It proves that Srivijaya was on mainland, not in Java or Sumatra,

UNLESS Java or Sumatra claim that they were called "Siam-Lavo" before.

3) It makes the theory that Siam existed only after Sukhothai in 13rd century totally collapsed!
Because we had the name "Siam-Lavo" mentioned in Chinese's record of 961 A.D.!!!!

4) Srivijaya existed in the Chinese record between 670 - 1178, that mean Siam-Lavo also existed at least from 670!!!!

With simple math, we can conclude that:

Siam = Srivijaya (from the Chinese record)
Srivijaya = Funan (Srivijaya rulers were from Funan)

Therefore, Siam = Funan.

Very simple math, anybody want to disprove it?

[Leeporter]

This is what Suzuki said:

"The history of Southeast Asia has been distorted by many wrong hypotheses. The most serious error is the ‘Palembang Hypothesis’. "

G. Coedes is a genius. He can read the inscription better than anyone on earth.

But the problem is he didn't limit himself to reading inscription, and he made several "big" mistake like this Srivijaya at Palembang theory.

Why Suzuki said G.Coedes's "Srivijaya at Palembang" was the "most serious error"?

Because it can't explain so many thing such as this obvious one:

"During the winter of 961 A.D. the tribute was sent by a king called Che-li Wou-ye. These ambassadors reported that the kingdom of San-fo-tsi was also called Sien-lieou."

Srivijaya can't be in Palembang of Java unless Palembang or Java was called "Siam-Lavo"!!!

Center of Srivijaya had to be on mainland and it had to be Siam.

Coedes's "Srivijaya at Palembang" theory make everything in a mess for several decades.

And most scolars already accepted that it was wrong.

"The Palembang Hypothesis presented by G. Coedès and has been supported by most historians is not rational from many aspects and it is proved apparent mistake." : Suzuki

But too bad, many mainstream historians still don't catch up with the all-the-time updated history, so they still think that Srivijaya was in Palembang.

And they still can't explain why the ambassador of Srivijaya told Chinese emperor that Srivijaya was also called "Siam-Lavo"

Instead of changing their outdated theory of Srivijaya at Palembang, they choose to ignore such record by the Chinese.





This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 19 2012, 09:15 PM