The U.S is really against Vietnam even in 2010, read this Options

[Subzero]

Leaving the United States

If you are a U.S. citizen, you can travel to or live in most foreign countries without affecting your Social Security benefits. There are, however, a few countries where we cannot send Social Security payments. These countries are Cambodia, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam and areas that were in the former Soviet Union (other than Armenia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Russia). However, exceptions can be made for certain eligible beneficiaries in countries other than Cuba and North Korea. For more information about these exceptions, please contact your local Social Security office.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10035.html

So much for the delusion that Vietnam and U.S are "warming ties"

[Cubano]

I know now why the American hate me

Try get me!!! FAT Americans Motherfu-ker lolz

BTW Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are EU and NATO members

This post has been edited by Cubano: Feb 12 2010, 11:51 PM

[tung123]

That held no significance information.

[Aristotle]

People have friends, nations have interest. If you do not accept U.S's influence or interest then the U.S don't have to accept you. And life is not static, there is a fourth dimension: time. Time changes everything.

[Subzero]

I see that on VTV4 channel (A Vietnamese channel broadcasted oversea to international audience), the Vietnamese government still use the word "Imperialist" when they refer to the American when they talk about the Vietnam War related topics.

I think it proves that behind closed doors, both the U.S and Vietnam still hate each other guts. Vietnam outright still call the U.S as "imperialist" on national television channel that broadcast oversea while the U.S would out right group Vietnam together with Cuba or North Korea

[CaptainVietnam]

fu-k usa's involvement in vietnam war. that wasn't even their war, it was our war. look at the american civil war, nobody helped them. usa in the end got their @$$ kicked by NVA and viet congs. that's a price to learn ur not the world police, america.

[Cubano]

The American killed more than 500.000 Civilian (US high estimate) most of them children and woman

But Vietnam state claim more civilian killed by the American not remember the number but is a lot more

The American do a Economical embargo to Vietnam in 1975 and it left 20 years after in 1995 whatever the first contacts between Socialist Republic of Vietnam and United States of American Star during the 80s.

Is important to know the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) support and help working together with the Chinese all anti Vietnamese guerrillas in Laos and Cambodia like the criminal Khmer Rouge working together with the Chinese.

[Aristotle]

The U.S was also racist, so what? It only became a full democracy in 1960's when African Americans finally won voting rights in the South.

Like I've said, there is a fourth dimension and that is time. The minute you think the U.S ( or any other nation) something and it becomes something else. Nothing is static.

[kieshin]

fu-k usa's involvement in vietnam war. that wasn't even their war, it was our war. look at the american civil war, nobody helped them. usa in the end got their @$$ kicked by NVA and viet congs. that's a price to learn ur not the world police, america.

captain VIETNAM tha's fuking kool!!!!!!! ..... vietnamese version of captain corea LOL

[Aristotle]

Anyways, it is a fact the European conquered the world through soft or hard power. It doesn't matter if you like it or not. Hence, we spoke English, wear western clothes, live life the western ways, and became who we are today. If it wasn't for the European then it would've been the Chinese or the Arab. Back in the days China has massive fleets but the emperor decided to call all of his ships back and burned them and closed the border, from there they disappeared from the World Game. The Persian couldn't conquer the world because they lost to the 300 Spartans. Then Alexander of Macedon conquered unified the Greece states, conquered Persia and spread European culture through building library and institution. Then we have the Roman conquered the Greece, and took Greece culture and spread it through Europe. Then the Portuguese, Spanish, the British etc.. went around to colonize the rest of the world. If the Persian successfully conquered the world we would've live life their ways, if it was the Chinese then we live in a Chinese reality. As a Vietnamese you should know, you live in Chinese version of reality. You celebrate their new year, wear their styles clothes, use their characters..etc.. In the present you embrace western influences and their ideology, technology, Latin Alphabet..etc..So how are you fighting "imperialism" when you're embracing imperialism, itself?

[Cubano]

The U.S was also racist, so what? It only became a full democracy in 1960's when African Americans finally won voting rights in the South.

Like I've said, there is a fourth dimension and that is time. The minute you think the U.S ( or any other nation) something and it becomes something else. Nothing is static.

US do not have real democracy for now they only have two choices Republican (Far right) or Democrats (Right) nothing more.

There are some links about the US- Vietnam relationship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...ns#Human_rights
http://www.vietnamembassy-usa.org/
http://vietnam.usembassy.gov/

US today are looking for oil.. war against the Soviet Communist over in 1991

the 2º world power after US is China and they are another "ex enemy" Russia are weak today but better during the 90s


for now US government are crying for like 1k of pilot MIA in Vietnam they do not care nothing about the Agent Orange, chemical warfare, “collateral damage” and massacre of thousand of civilian.



This post has been edited by Cubano: Feb 13 2010, 01:34 AM

[Aristotle]

You mean you never heard of the green parties?

Is just that nobody ever or rarely vote for green because they don't want to risk wasting their votes.


To help you understand American better, this is the American mind:

Individualism
rebellion
liberty
progress
limited government

There is no radical party because it goes against the American mind, it is frowned upon or will not get popular support, radical and socialists tend to be socially cooperative, meaning sharing wealth and have state owned business, property, etc for the benefit of society as a whole. For most American, it is about individualism and limited government. Although there were radical Unions but they've been crushed.

U.S is a full democracy, just a very anti radical and socialist because it is embedded within the American mind.

(oh I am pretty aware of what U.S did in VN. You simply can't change the past but you can participate and shape a preferable future.)

This post has been edited by Aristotle: Feb 13 2010, 01:36 AM

[Cubano]

It is just a political bilateral systems (Only two parties Republican and Democrat) It is not real democracy

Real democracy looking integrate all the factors of the society.

US congress have communist, socialist menber ? No you can only found Republics or Democrats

Some US sites in internet usually censured a lot opinion especially if are pro Vietnam they called it anti US rhetoric.

Everyone condemns the Nazis because the killed civilian in WWII ? but who condemns the American in Vietnam? they do almost the same do a illegal undeclared war against third world and semi colonial country / people..

so what if the difference to kill woman and children with napalm or kill them in concentration camps ?

For me is the same.

US also have interesting they allied with PRC “communist” but anti soviet- anti Vietnamese State during cool war for combat Vietnamese forces in Cambodia / Laos and Soviet forces in Afghanistan (Using another groups Khmer Rouge, Mujahideen , Islamic terrorist).

So the American aid the Khmer Rouge during like 8 years

It is about the US “collateral” damage in Vietnam (In spanish)
http://guerradevietnam.foros.ws/t1166/dano...nales-del-usaf/

[phop]

Why wouldn't the USA get involve in Vietnam War? If i was a evil country wanting to set puppet governments in power I too would get involve in any country that is in war.

[Buddhalove]

However, exceptions can be made for certain eligible beneficiaries in countries other than Cuba and North Korea. For more information about these exceptions, please contact your local Social Security office.

So Vietnam might have some exception. So what you can do is let your children cash it out and they can send it to you in Vietnam.

[Cubano]

Why wouldn't the USA get involve in Vietnam War? If i was a evil country wanting to set puppet governments in power I too would get involve in any country that is in war.

The American get in Vietnam probably for demonstrate their military power against “very easy” adversary “war easy to win” and stop the communist influence in Asia .

So the War in Vietnam was before the US illegal intervention a just Civil war the American only take it much more long and bloody it caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent most of them killed by the American (Air bombers) especially in the South zone without air defense and under US/ARVN control.

After the Soviet Union collapse in 1995 the president Bill Clinton normalized the diplomatic relation with Vietnam whatever today the country suffered a serious consequences from the American illegal war in Indochina caused by the unexploded bombs and chemical warfare (Agent orange)

there are a few info
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...gentofsuffering

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJxb7CY13uc&feature=fvst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zay0zcC0K4...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT6t_Qve3rE

some factors in US try help but the official state politic do almost nothing... some experts said will be take more than 400 year removed all unexploded bombs from Vietnam and Laos

[gameover]

The US Holocaust in Vietnam:

3.5 million slaughtered upholding Pro-Western dictator in Vietnam, under the pretext of Ho Chi Minh being an 'agent of Moscow'.

Estimates of CIVILLIAN casualties Vietnam War alone:

2,058,000 (Eckhardt)
2,163,000 (Britannica)
2,500,000 (Grenville)
3,000,000 (Chomsky)
3,100,000 (Tucker)

South Vietnam military:

224,000 (Kutler, Olson)
250,000 (Clodfelter, Grenville)
650,000 (Small & Singer)

N.Vietnamese Military (including NFL):

900,000 (Britannica; Grenville)
1,000,000 (Clodfelter)
1,100,000 (Tucker)

watch this great documentary:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...99488298191317#

Vietnam: The Last Battle (1995)

51:00 - 1 year ago
In 1975, John Pilger reported the end of the Vietnam War from the American Embassy in Saigon, where the last American troops fled from the roof-top helicopter pad. He was made Journalist of the Year and International Reporter of the Year for his reporting of the Vietnam War over a period of almost ten years. The American invasion of Vietnam marked the last stage of the longest war of the last century, a war in which the greatest tonnage of bombs in history was dropped, in which more than two million Vietnamese were killed and a bountiful land devastated. With the Americans finally gone, Vietnam was made an international pariah. The United States mounted an embargo that covered both trade and aid and other Western governments and international banks soon joined in.

[Aristotle]

It is just a political bilateral systems (Only two parties Republican and Democrat) It is not real democracy

Real democracy looking integrate all the factors of the society.

US congress have communist, socialist menber ? No you can only found Republics or Democrats

Some US sites in internet usually censured a lot opinion especially if are pro Vietnam they called it anti US rhetoric.

Everyone condemns the Nazis because the killed civilian in WWII ? but who condemns the American in Vietnam? they do almost the same do a illegal undeclared war against third world and semi colonial country / people..

so what if the difference to kill woman and children with napalm or kill them in concentration camps ?

For me is the same.

US also have interesting they allied with PRC “communist” but anti soviet- anti Vietnamese State during cool war for combat Vietnamese forces in Cambodia / Laos and Soviet forces in Afghanistan (Using another groups Khmer Rouge, Mujahideen , Islamic terrorist).

So the American aid the Khmer Rouge during like 8 years

It is about the US “collateral” damage in Vietnam (In spanish)
http://guerradevietnam.foros.ws/t1166/dano...nales-del-usaf/

You are confused democracies with foreign policies, the people's sentiment, and political decision.

Here are some characteristics of democracy:
Centralized power within the state is low
accountability of the Government to the people is high

"In democracies, institution are structured so that political power is dispersed within the state and the authority of the government rests upon the freely given consent of the people. Democratic political leaders are selected through free, fair, and frequent election in which all permanent adult residents of the country enjoy extensive civil and political rights to organize, express, and exchange their views.
"
As I've mentioned earlier, the American mind is embedded within American, they value individualism, less government, if you're a socialist or a radical chances are you will be frowned upon. Although, you can organize and exchange your view and try to run for office but more likely you will not succeed. Democracies do not guarantee success but the rights to participate.

Republican and Democrat are neo-conservatives and neo-Liberal and nothing more. The radical is hanging around the Judicial branch. Balance of power...seem like democracy to me.

And another point is that, the U.S provide a condition for people to be educated and make informed decision but a lot of people chose to be uneducated and ignorant. We just have a lot of dumb motherfu-kers in America they chose to be dumb...but nevertheless the U.S is a full democracy. Alright?

This post has been edited by Aristotle: Feb 13 2010, 11:24 AM

[Cubano]

The US Holocaust in Vietnam:

3.5 million slaughtered upholding Pro-Western dictator in Vietnam, under the pretext of Ho Chi Minh being an 'agent of Moscow'.

Estimates of CIVILLIAN casualties Vietnam War alone:

2,058,000 (Eckhardt)
2,163,000 (Britannica)
2,500,000 (Grenville)
3,000,000 (Chomsky)
3,100,000 (Tucker)

South Vietnam military:

224,000 (Kutler, Olson)
250,000 (Clodfelter, Grenville)
650,000 (Small & Singer)

N.Vietnamese Military (including NFL):

900,000 (Britannica; Grenville)
1,000,000 (Clodfelter)
1,100,000 (Tucker)

watch this great documentary:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...99488298191317#

Vietnam: The Last Battle (1995)

51:00 - 1 year ago
In 1975, John Pilger reported the end of the Vietnam War from the American Embassy in Saigon, where the last American troops fled from the roof-top helicopter pad. He was made Journalist of the Year and International Reporter of the Year for his reporting of the Vietnam War over a period of almost ten years. The American invasion of Vietnam marked the last stage of the longest war of the last century, a war in which the greatest tonnage of bombs in history was dropped, in which more than two million Vietnamese were killed and a bountiful land devastated. With the Americans finally gone, Vietnam was made an international pariah. The United States mounted an embargo that covered both trade and aid and other Western governments and international banks soon joined in.

It is a pretty much It is the High Estimate there are a different source

* South Vietnam military
o 220,357 (Lewy, Ency. Americana)
o 223,748 (Summers; also 3 April 1995 AP)
o 224,000 (Kutler, Olson)
o 250,000 (Clodfelter, Grenville*)
o 254,257 (Wallechinsky*, COWP [1965-75])
o 650,000 (Small & Singer)

* North Vietnamese military and Viet Cong
o 444,000 (Ency. Americana)
o 500,000 (S&S)
o 660,000 (Olson)
o 666,000 (Lewy, with the possibility that as many as 222,000 (1/3) of these were actually SVN civilians mistaken for VC)


* South Vietnamese civilians
o 250,000 (Olson)
o 287,000 (Clodfelter = 247,600 war deaths + 38,954 assassinated by NLF)
o 300,000 (Kutler; Summers)
o 340,000 (Lewy's estimate, with the possibility that an additional 222,000 counted as VC (above) belong in this category)
o 430,000 (The Sen. E. Kennedy Commission, according to Lewy, Olson)
o 522,000 (Wallechinsky*)

* North Vietnamese civilians: 65,000 (Kutler, Lewy, Olson, Summers, Wallechinsky) by American bombing.

All are US estimates

The final causalities probably can be more than 230K so in 1975 their logistical system collapse about 200k defeaters / surrender this year

according with that Vietnamese civilian + military death both sides cong or not cong is between 1.300.000- 1.500.000 (inc the ARVN) during 1961-75

Whatever according with Official Vietnam report from 1995 said is a lot more people death between during 1954-75 die more than 1.1 millions of VC / NVA + 2 millions of civilian is a total 3.1 millions of people dead

For me Vietnam official estimate reports is a exaggerated the Vietnam governments is looking from support and help from another countries for rebuilt their country, as today the consequences of the War are a serious problems for Vietnam and as today they get almost nothing help the zones with contaminated with chemical warfare elements (the agent orange) and a lot zones with unexploded bombs and mines I said before US military used three times more bombs in Vietnam (a pretty small territory) than the WWII

BTW the US military condecorated the soldiers who droop chemical weapons into Vietnam territory Vietnam with the The Order of the Silver Rose



The reason of US invasion to Iraq is for “have” chemical weapons but as today they fond nothing the but the American have it and also used in massive use against civilian in Vietnam.

US (the government) help almost with nothing the Vietnamese people but in 1993 Vietnam was virtually forced to paid Washington the damage of the war

I quote it in Spanish

Michel Chossudovsky, ¿Quién ganó la guerra de Vietnam?, Vietnam nunca recibió el pago de reparaciones de guerra de los EE.UU. por la pérdida masiva de vidas y la destrucción, y sin embargo un acuerdo alcanzado en París en 1993 requiere de Hanoi reconocer las deudas de extinto régimen de Saigón. Este acuerdo en muchos aspectos equivale a obligar a Vietnam a compensar a Washington por los costos de la guerra.

Michel Chossudovsky, Who won the Vietnam War?, Vietnam never received war reparations from the U.S. by the massive loss of life and destruction, yet an agreement reached in Paris in 1993 required Hanoi to recognize the debts of defunct Saigon regime. This deal in many ways tantamount to obliging Vietnam to compensate Washington for the costs of war.

So you guys know now why Vietnam is still poor today ? It is a “Democracy” no for me it is just a criminal mafia on the power.

PS. Remember also the war against the China and his allied the Khmer Rouge (With US support)

[Cubano]

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This post has been edited by Cubano: Feb 15 2010, 12:48 AM