The Origin of the word 'Khmer' |
![]() |
|
![]() ![]() |
The Origin of the word 'Khmer' |
Oct 16 2012, 09:05 AM
Post
#341
|
|
|
AF Geek Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 3-February 11 |
check mated? not really. 1. the stone inscription does not have the word Khmer written on it. it only has Khom which mainstream historians will automatically think is Khmer. This is where that bt of information comes from. Like I said before. There is not one single inscription with the word Khmer and Khom as the same element. 2. Lopburi was not part of Ramanadesa and thus could not have been a "Mon" kingdom. As like I mentioned. Mons are known as Ramans. Simple. Not hard to understand. 3. Nyah kur are Nyah kur, Siam are Siam, Mon are Ramans. Whats hard to understand? Siamese are a different group that in the early period practiced the same culture as the Ramans did (thus practicing Mon culture) it does not mean they magically turn into Mons. But, scholars and historians have groups every people that practice the culture as one ethnolinguistic identity so the Siamese of Lopburi became "Mons of Dvaravati" simple isn't it. The Tai of Lanna never identitfied the Siamese as Tai. The Mons did not Identify the Siamese as Ramans or even the same people. The Khmers never identified the Siamese as the same people. But somehow within mainstream history the Saimese people were grouped into these three peoples and lost their identity. Get it now? Check mated? you must be really bad at chess lol 1. So your statement khom not being Khmer does what in your research? Dont tell me stretching khom to be Siam right? Thats whats up next lol 2. Um right the Lopburi were lawa no? 3.Not really. Nyah Kur are Nyah Kur Mons are Ramans and Siam have not been written down by the Siam themselves (not jumping ahead in time) Siam was not written by the Mons themselves. So what explains Siam ripping off Mon language and culture but the Mons didnt even know abotu them. Still you have not showed me any "siam" austroasiatics that have been found today and can claim they are that. Mlabri=found with a population of 300. Nyah Kur=found with a population of 5000 .Yet we cant find a single Siam ethnic that will come out and say it? Even a child can discern that this whole thing sounds completely irrational. When did the Mons every identify original siamese as their cousin and culture stealer? I have never seen this written by any Mon historians or scholars either. Adding more stupidity to your claims even when we do find these "siam" they should have their own dialect of Mon by now and should have had it to start with. I have never seen an ethnolinguistic group that copies exactly another persons culture and language to everything being exact. Even people in the usa have different word usages accents etc. White people are all white from europe in usa but depending on their region use different English expressions. I just dont get why you wont call yourself a mon tai mutt? Even if your pre Siam in dvaravati is true you are just a austroasiatic tai mutt. Or are the siam some kind of magic race ? The so called "Siam" are gone mixed into Tai and everythign they did is gone. The term Thai for you does fit because Thai isnt a race its a definition of a country that calls itself "free" from european colonialism. Just like every American isnt white although the majority is Thailand is pure tai tai mon/khmer mutts and pure mon khmer. Also Jek lol. America is named after an Italian dude Amerigo but does that mean people are all Italian in USA? |
|
|
|
Oct 16 2012, 09:33 AM
Post
#342
|
|
|
AF Geek Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 3-February 11 |
My piece of evidence from the time lines of the Chronicles of Ayutthaya and the Chronicles of Cambodia has confirmed that Khom does not = Khmer. This is check mate 100%. This is the clearest black and white piece of recorded historic evidence as to the identity of "Khom" people. Khom people are linked to Mon people but are not the same group as Ramans. Khom were the Eastern Mons. Khom is not Khmer people. This is confirmed because the Khmers were not attacked by Siam in 1603. The only people to be attacked and lose their country were the "Mons". Just this bit of concrete evidence alone is enough to dispel any link to Khmer and Khom being the same identity. Thus all evidence which says Khom = Khmer is null and void. It was only an assumption that Khom = Krom. There was no solid evidence. History based on an assumption of an assumption is corrupted history. Guess its time to rewrite the history books. Khom empire. Khom sript. YuthakunKhom. Khom Chenla. Khmer did not exist in ancient history. In Thailand, this written language is frequently not referred to as Khmer at all, but as Khom, an old Mon word for Khmer (Bauer, 1989, p. 77).\ I suspect this usage was popularized precisely to obscure Khmer influence by the Fine Arts Department formed during the rule of military dictator Phibulsongkhram in the 1930s. well well that sounds familiar doesnt it? You cry and complain about this jackazz causing any remnants of Siam to die but when he does sth against Khmer then its ok. Cool story bro Whether doing so was the actual motivation or not, using a Mon name for Khmer writing alienates these written artefacts from their Khmer heritage. During my fieldwork, I regularly asked Northern Khmer-speaking villagers if they knew what Khom was; most had only a dim or tentative awareness, and many did not know at all. That is, they knew the word Khom, but they did not immediately associate it with Khmer. Those who knew or suspected the script was Khmer were generally older villagers, especially those few who, ‘traditionally educated’ in local temples, knew how to write Mul script themselves. Still others would recognize a script as Khmer, and not realize it was being designated as Khom. Formal education certainly did not help: a highly educated doctor I met in Buriram province had dug up an ancient inscription in his garden and asked me if I could read it. Looking at it, I told him it was difficult for me to read Khmer, especially old Khmer, to which he responded ‘It isn’t Khmer, it’s Khom.’ When I pointed out that ^^ This is Thai brainwashing The stone inscription does mention Khmer or (khom) if yu must lawa and java but nothing about SIAM. Um ok so you are still a tai mon mutt right? Whats changing here?Khom is not you Khom is Mon Siam to you is not a Mon I dont get why you keep arguing with me anyway. Nothing changing in the whole argument we all know Thailand is a mutt land of Tai Mon and Khmer. Either way you are half Tai chinese runaway and half austroasiatic just like Khmer. Mon and Khmers are acknowledged brothers linguistically and by DNA the Mons themselves say and believe this without some white historians saying otherwise. |
|
|
|
Oct 16 2012, 08:36 PM
Post
#343
|
|
|
AF Pro Group: Members Posts: 2,803 Joined: 4-January 09 |
In Thailand, this written language is frequently not referred to as Khmer at all, but as Khom, an old Mon word for Khmer (Bauer, 1989, p. 77).\ I suspect this usage was popularized precisely to obscure Khmer influence by the Fine Arts Department formed during the rule of military dictator Phibulsongkhram in the 1930s. well well that sounds familiar doesnt it? You cry and complain about this jackazz causing any remnants of Siam to die but when he does sth against Khmer then its ok. Cool story bro Khom is Khom. Khom invented just about everything in SEA. Khmers did not appear in history until the 14th century. Siamese records have never put Khmer and Khom as the same people. Phibul Songkram didn't do anything regarding Khom. The only thing his government did was to try and erase the Siamese identity to remove Saimese power in the country. The Siamese have always written Khom as Khom and Khmer as Khmer. Only idiot scholars like this still think Khom is Khmer so they come up with an assumption like this. Mon used Khom Siamese used Khom Lanna used Khom Did Phibul Songkram use a Timemachine to go back in time to change these texts too? lol Whether doing so was the actual motivation or not, using a Mon name for Khmer writing alienates these written artefacts from their Khmer heritage. What Khmer heritage? there is no evidence of any kind that a "Khmer" group of people were even in existence before the 14th century. Khmer is using Khom heritage, not Khom using Khmer heritage. This is ridiculous and very Khmercentric. Show me proof that "Khmer" people made even a foot print in history before the 14th century. And no using Khom language, temples, inscriptions, culture as a basis is incredibly silly seeing they are recorded to be in history the same time those things wee in use. During my fieldwork, I regularly asked Northern Khmer-speaking villagers if they knew what Khom was; most had only a dim or tentative awareness, and many did not know at all. That is, they knew the word Khom, but they did not immediately associate it with Khmer. Those who knew or suspected the script was Khmer were generally older villagers, especially those few who, ‘traditionally educated’ in local temples, knew how to write Mul script themselves. Khmers use Khom script. Your using a language someone else invented. Of course people would associate it with those people. Only Khmer people are so culturally lost that they think they are Khom! Khom are not Khmer. Refer to 1603 conquest of Khom country. Still others would recognize a script as Khmer, and not realize it was being designated as Khom. Only Khmers and western scholars (seeing as its western scholars who labeled Khmer as Khom) will believe it is Khmer script. Naming a language based on the modern people is down right stupid. Imagine 500 years time all Khmers die out or are assimilated into another group and suddenly the language is called "Khmu script" see the stupidity of it? Khom script, or Chenla script was invented before the Khmer people appeared in history. No doubt Khmers who live in the region of its use will learn it and use it. After all, after the Khmers killed the Varman king and took Angkor, it shows that the Khmer people was in Angkor (but did not rule it. Peasant/farmer/lower caste became king. Caste system in place. Lower caste is not same as the ksatriyas) Formal education certainly did not help: a highly educated doctor I met in Buriram province had dug up an ancient inscription in his garden and asked me if I could read it. Looking at it, I told him it was difficult for me to read Khmer, especially old Khmer, to which he responded ‘It isn’t Khmer, it’s Khom.’ When I pointed out that ^^ This is Thai brainwashing Brainwash? Siamese people have been calling the inventors of this script as Khom long before western scholars claimed this script is Khmer. Who are the ones brainwashed? Khmer and Khom have always been differentiated by the people who use this word. Suddenly your telling the people who use the word that they are using it wrong after they have been using it for hundreds of years. The stone inscription does mention Khmer or (khom) if yu must lawa and java but nothing about SIAM. Irrelevant. It mentions Khom not Khmer. If you have researched Khom scripts and inscriptions you will know NO inscription that has the name Khmer with the word Khom. NONE. As for no mention of Siam. They were probably under the control of Khom. That or they were too insignificant at the time to be named. Um ok so you are still a tai mon mutt right? Whats changing here?Khom is not you Khom is Mon Siam to you is not a Mon I dont get why you keep arguing with me anyway. Nothing changing in the whole argument we all know Thailand is a mutt land of Tai Mon and Khmer. Either way you are half Tai chinese runaway and half austroasiatic just like Khmer. Mon and Khmers are acknowledged brothers linguistically and by DNA the Mons themselves say and believe this without some white historians saying otherwise. Thailand is a mutt country, so what? every country in the world is a mutt country. THERE IS NO PURE RACE IN THIS WORLD. you Khmercentric people are crazy. Thailand was never the focus of this thread anyway. The focus of this thread is ORIGIN OF THE WORD "KHMER". This is make tracing a "Khmer" people in history possible. Stupid historians automatically assume Khmers are Khom because of language. ridiculous. |
|
|
|
Oct 16 2012, 08:44 PM
Post
#344
|
|
|
AF Pro Group: Members Posts: 2,803 Joined: 4-January 09 |
1. So your statement khom not being Khmer does what in your research? Dont tell me stretching khom to be Siam right? Thats whats up next lol 2. Um right the Lopburi were lawa no? 3.Not really. Nyah Kur are Nyah Kur Mons are Ramans and Siam have not been written down by the Siam themselves (not jumping ahead in time) Siam was not written by the Mons themselves. So what explains Siam ripping off Mon language and culture but the Mons didnt even know abotu them. Still you have not showed me any "siam" austroasiatics that have been found today and can claim they are that. Mlabri=found with a population of 300. Nyah Kur=found with a population of 5000 .Yet we cant find a single Siam ethnic that will come out and say it? Even a child can discern that this whole thing sounds completely irrational. When did the Mons every identify original siamese as their cousin and culture stealer? I have never seen this written by any Mon historians or scholars either. Adding more stupidity to your claims even when we do find these "siam" they should have their own dialect of Mon by now and should have had it to start with. I have never seen an ethnolinguistic group that copies exactly another persons culture and language to everything being exact. Even people in the usa have different word usages accents etc. White people are all white from europe in usa but depending on their region use different English expressions. I just dont get why you wont call yourself a mon tai mutt? Even if your pre Siam in dvaravati is true you are just a austroasiatic tai mutt. Or are the siam some kind of magic race ? The so called "Siam" are gone mixed into Tai and everythign they did is gone. The term Thai for you does fit because Thai isnt a race its a definition of a country that calls itself "free" from european colonialism. Just like every American isnt white although the majority is Thailand is pure tai tai mon/khmer mutts and pure mon khmer. Also Jek lol. America is named after an Italian dude Amerigo but does that mean people are all Italian in USA? lol so your whole point of arguing this is to call Thai people mutts? lol well done chad. We all know we are all mutts. We accept that we are not "pure" race people. Who denies this? Thailand is already waking up to this fact because of our research. Once again chad, well done for stating the obvious lol But it still doesn't change the fact; 1. Khmers are the domesticated hill tribes of Angkor. if not who are they? 2. Khmers do not appear in history before the 14th century. After the legend of Trasak paem and the change from the Angkor rulers from Commoners/peasant stock. 3. All history based on the fact Khmers are Khom is destroyed. If Khmers are not Khom. Who are they? We know who we are. Do you know who you are? |
|
|
|
Oct 17 2012, 03:54 AM
Post
#345
|
|
|
AF Geek Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 3-February 11 |
lets start things off with a bit of Thai trolling from yahoo answers (probably done by one of you)
QUOTE Common wisdom to the Thai is that Khom people is a race and they are different than Khmer or Cambodian. I remember answering about this sometimes ago. Khom is the ancient ruler of the Khom Empire, which somehow to western people, Khom doesn't exist, only Khmer or Cambodia as many people were led to believe. To most Thai, common knowledge is that Khom extinct. And it was to me to until I went to Thammasart University, Political Science faculty, and met with this girl who said she's Khom, and not Cambodian. She still able to speak, read and write in Khom. She lives in her town somewhere in Prachinburi close to Cambodian border, according to her is the concentration of the Khom people. To my knowledge, relations between Khom and Cambodia are like Egyptian and Jews, whereas Khom were the Egyptian. So how does saying the supposed "khom" are masters and "khmer" are slaves doing anything for Thailands history? Either way Thailand copied "khom" and Mon culture and has no culture of its own. Saying the Khmer are just taking "khom" stuff means nothing because Thailand did the same also. Even if there was a "khom" people they were most likely austroasiatic and more relatives to Mon and Khmer then your mutt race. You throw around tribal this that I dont mind being a tribal person and I dont find it an insult really. I take pride in my tribe Bunong traditions and I take pride of the Khmer traditions as well. We are same genetically whats there to be ashamed of? Someone who is kandal is an austroasiatic or mon-khmer person who accepts budhism and practices the indic/khmer blend of tradition. A Bunong like me is austroasiatic but we hold the original ways of living and methods of cambodia before indic beliefs arrived. What do people of Thailand have to show? They dont live in their original homeland the Tais came from China The "siam" didnt have an indigenous culture and just practiced Mon culture which is indigenous mon and indic beliefs. A khmer kandal can look at bunong and see what cambodia was before indic systems came. We still had romvong still had the basis of what the apsara dances are still had linguistic commonality.. This troll failed because the supposed person cant speak "khom" as much as nobody speaks "siamese". Why? Because it would have been documented already. Again if linguists can find the Mlabri language of 300 speakers then whats going on with not finding "siamese" version of mon and now this khom? You yourself told me the Khmer today write in "khom" but speak Khmer. Sorta like how thailands mutts write in a" khom" (really khmer) script for a tai language? The "Siamese" have always written "khom" different than khmer huh? So what writing system did the "siam" use to write "khom"? Again see the holes in your logic. When you keep lying and lying the holes become more apparent. FYI The " siamese" who spoke 100% Mon and the Mon themselves called the khmer by Khom. Thailand now uses the Mon pronounciation of Khmer to create the khom and hurt anything khmer. Mons should be called Raman or Rman nowadays right Again what difference does it make to seperate a fake khom and Khmer? It helps nothing with your history all it says is you copied a now extinct khom race. Mon and Khmer and the rest of the austroasiatic peoples are related linguistically culturally by DNA and physical appearance. Ive never said Mon are the exact same as Khmer and I respect that Mon had their own culture and land. In return the Mon respect Khmer as well and know us as their brethren. Mon script and Khmer script developed from Pallava around the same times thus they look different. This makes sense because Mon first were introduced to Indic culture then the Khmer were introduced a little bit after accepted it. Bama use the Mon script present day lao and thai use a version of the Khmer script now. ![]() If we are all mutts according to you then whats the use of claiming ethnolinguistic names? Whats the use of X group claiming Y kingdom? You really make no sense. I showed you the name Kmir was recorded in 800s but you again threw that out the window with another explanation. Anything on this side can always be explained by your "explanations" but you cant explain to me how the "siam" exactly copied the Mon language and culture without the Ramans recording it. How the "siam" language was 100% same as Mon is amazing that it differed nothing from its Mon branch. Thailand is the perfect name for modern Thai land. You are an amalgation of Mon, Khmer, Tai and other austroasiatics in the region who created a phony identity in order to take pieces of others kingdoms that you liked. The Kingdom of Thailand is the land of culture stealers mystical dissapearing people ladyboys white man sex slaves etc This post has been edited by chadwarden: Oct 17 2012, 03:55 AM |
|
|
|
Oct 27 2012, 09:27 AM
Post
#346
|
|
|
AF Pro Group: Members Posts: 2,803 Joined: 4-January 09 |
lets start things off with a bit of Thai trolling from yahoo answers (probably done by one of you) So how does saying the supposed "khom" are masters and "khmer" are slaves doing anything for Thailands history? Either way Thailand copied "khom" and Mon culture and has no culture of its own. Saying the Khmer are just taking "khom" stuff means nothing because Thailand did the same also. Even if there was a "khom" people they were most likely austroasiatic and more relatives to Mon and Khmer then your mutt race. You throw around tribal this that I dont mind being a tribal person and I dont find it an insult really. I take pride in my tribe Bunong traditions and I take pride of the Khmer traditions as well. We are same genetically whats there to be ashamed of? Someone who is kandal is an austroasiatic or mon-khmer person who accepts budhism and practices the indic/khmer blend of tradition. A Bunong like me is austroasiatic but we hold the original ways of living and methods of cambodia before indic beliefs arrived. What do people of Thailand have to show? They dont live in their original homeland the Tais came from China The "siam" didnt have an indigenous culture and just practiced Mon culture which is indigenous mon and indic beliefs. A khmer kandal can look at bunong and see what cambodia was before indic systems came. We still had romvong still had the basis of what the apsara dances are still had linguistic commonality.. This troll failed because the supposed person cant speak "khom" as much as nobody speaks "siamese". Why? Because it would have been documented already. Again if linguists can find the Mlabri language of 300 speakers then whats going on with not finding "siamese" version of mon and now this khom? You yourself told me the Khmer today write in "khom" but speak Khmer. Sorta like how thailands mutts write in a" khom" (really khmer) script for a tai language? The "Siamese" have always written "khom" different than khmer huh? So what writing system did the "siam" use to write "khom"? Again see the holes in your logic. When you keep lying and lying the holes become more apparent. FYI The " siamese" who spoke 100% Mon and the Mon themselves called the khmer by Khom. Thailand now uses the Mon pronounciation of Khmer to create the khom and hurt anything khmer. Mons should be called Raman or Rman nowadays right Again what difference does it make to seperate a fake khom and Khmer? It helps nothing with your history all it says is you copied a now extinct khom race. Mon and Khmer and the rest of the austroasiatic peoples are related linguistically culturally by DNA and physical appearance. Ive never said Mon are the exact same as Khmer and I respect that Mon had their own culture and land. In return the Mon respect Khmer as well and know us as their brethren. Mon script and Khmer script developed from Pallava around the same times thus they look different. This makes sense because Mon first were introduced to Indic culture then the Khmer were introduced a little bit after accepted it. Bama use the Mon script present day lao and thai use a version of the Khmer script now. ![]() If we are all mutts according to you then whats the use of claiming ethnolinguistic names? Whats the use of X group claiming Y kingdom? You really make no sense. I showed you the name Kmir was recorded in 800s but you again threw that out the window with another explanation. Anything on this side can always be explained by your "explanations" but you cant explain to me how the "siam" exactly copied the Mon language and culture without the Ramans recording it. How the "siam" language was 100% same as Mon is amazing that it differed nothing from its Mon branch. Thailand is the perfect name for modern Thai land. You are an amalgation of Mon, Khmer, Tai and other austroasiatics in the region who created a phony identity in order to take pieces of others kingdoms that you liked. The Kingdom of Thailand is the land of culture stealers mystical dissapearing people ladyboys white man sex slaves etc ok, so you showing me that language tree does what? enforce how Khom script is changed to be Khmer script? well done Chad. As for the name Kmir found on the javanese record. Can you find Javanese record that can confirm it means Khmer? Im sure the Javanese kept very good records. Oh and Chad, you do realise that the Mon knew the Siamese right? the Mon called the Siamese as Sem. This is widely known. Well widely known apart from your Khmercentric brain. As for the language not being different? its even recorded in history that the peoples of the area spoke the same language. Even the people of Lopburi spoke Mon. Dvaravati spoke Mon. What language do you think the people of Sri Dhammaraja spoke? Swahili? Can you not understand that all these groups were Mon but had different identities? perhaps naming everyone after one group of these people is confusing you. Lets call the culture and language as culture A. Mons/Ramans practiced culture A. Siamese practised culture A. Lavo practised culture A. Suphanabhumi practised culture A. Only one of these groups call themselves Mon. Now somewhere a long the line, some people turned up and named culture A as Mon culture. Now all groups are practicing Mon culture. Get it? no, because in your mind they must be practising Khmer culture, right? Mon know Khmer as brethren? since when? have you ever asked them? If they think Khmer are their brethren they would have fled Burma and went to live in Cambodia instead of Siam. Well done for ignoring another part of history Chad. Your very good at this aren't you. Lets just ignore these things that happened in history so that you can sound correct. You haven't got a clue about SEA history do you Chad. Just trolling for Cambodia. Should I make a "Trolling for Cambodia T-Shirt" for you? As for the last part of the post. Its quite clear what is going on inside your head isn't it Chad. Hate the Siamese bandwagon, just like how you were taught to believe. Is it because you can't find anything else to back up what you say? Ignoring evidence can only go so far I guess. Well done Chad. Your truly a Khmer. |
|
|
|
Nov 17 2012, 10:17 PM
Post
#347
|
|
|
AF Guru Group: Members Posts: 3,146 Joined: 22-July 08 |
ok, so you showing me that language tree does what? enforce how Khom script is changed to be Khmer script? well done Chad. As for the name Kmir found on the javanese record. Can you find Javanese record that can confirm it means Khmer? Im sure the Javanese kept very good records. Oh and Chad, you do realise that the Mon knew the Siamese right? the Mon called the Siamese as Sem. This is widely known. Well widely known apart from your Khmercentric brain. As for the language not being different? its even recorded in history that the peoples of the area spoke the same language. Even the people of Lopburi spoke Mon. Dvaravati spoke Mon. What language do you think the people of Sri Dhammaraja spoke? Swahili? Can you not understand that all these groups were Mon but had different identities? perhaps naming everyone after one group of these people is confusing you. Lets call the culture and language as culture A. Mons/Ramans practiced culture A. Siamese practised culture A. Lavo practised culture A. Suphanabhumi practised culture A. Only one of these groups call themselves Mon. Now somewhere a long the line, some people turned up and named culture A as Mon culture. Now all groups are practicing Mon culture. Get it? no, because in your mind they must be practising Khmer culture, right? Mon know Khmer as brethren? since when? have you ever asked them? If they think Khmer are their brethren they would have fled Burma and went to live in Cambodia instead of Siam. Well done for ignoring another part of history Chad. Your very good at this aren't you. Lets just ignore these things that happened in history so that you can sound correct. You haven't got a clue about SEA history do you Chad. Just trolling for Cambodia. Should I make a "Trolling for Cambodia T-Shirt" for you? As for the last part of the post. Its quite clear what is going on inside your head isn't it Chad. Hate the Siamese bandwagon, just like how you were taught to believe. Is it because you can't find anything else to back up what you say? Ignoring evidence can only go so far I guess. Well done Chad. Your truly a Khmer. It is said that when a person is miseducated, that person should just die and become dirt again. After all this time, you stupid sh*t face has not learned the truth. Go ahead and keep claiming the Khom as your masters. Go ahead you can call the Khom as not the Khmer or whatever. We don't care. We only care that you keep your stupidity to yourself and side and not around the Cambodian peoples. If you decide to show off your stupidity, then your @$$ will we whipped just as your ancestors asses once were. That is all for now, you Siem Arch Kree. |
|
|
|
![]() ![]() |
| Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 18th May 2013 - 09:57 AM |