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What dialect does people in Taipei speak?
progen
post Oct 30 2011, 08:48 PM
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I heard that the mainlanders make up on 30% of the population in Taipei. However, people in Taipei still mostly speaks Mandarin, instead of Taiwanese.

I would think that most Taiwanese prefer to speak Taiwanese, even though they live in Taipei.

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DOUBLEMINT
post Oct 30 2011, 08:50 PM
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Theres no such thing as "taiwanese",its 闽南语,a dialect spoken in Fujian province.
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progen
post Oct 30 2011, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Oct 30 2011, 08:50 PM) *
Theres no such thing as "taiwanese",its 闽南语,a dialect spoken in Fujian province.


Of course I meant 闽南话. But why do people in Taipei speak Taiwanese instead of Mandarin, even though most of them are Taiwanese.
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ocrapdm
post Nov 1 2011, 06:09 AM
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Do Taipei people understand 闽南语?
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minh77
post Nov 9 2011, 10:23 AM
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QUOTE (progen @ Oct 30 2011, 09:10 PM) *
Of course I meant ???. But why do people in Taipei speak Taiwanese instead of Mandarin, even though most of them are Taiwanese.


Because many of them are descendant of hoklo, majority taipei citizen can speak minnanyu, nowday younger people less fluent in minnan langguage

But in southern taiwan, minnan still popular throughout all ages

Thank to lee teng hui for his localization movement that allowing local taiwanese culture and langguage could developing into society, too bad that kuomintang banned taiwanese culture, especially during martial law

I wish taiwan can be idependent identity that can developing our minnan culture to the world

Kicks out all of waishengren, chiangkaisek is loser and he suck !

Taiwan toklip...bansui..bansui...
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progen
post Nov 9 2011, 11:37 AM
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QUOTE (minh77 @ Nov 9 2011, 10:23 AM) *
Because many of them are descendant of hoklo, majority taipei citizen can speak minnanyu, nowday younger people less fluent in minnan langguage

But in southern taiwan, minnan still popular throughout all ages

Thank to lee teng hui for his localization movement that allowing local taiwanese culture and langguage could developing into society, too bad that kuomintang banned taiwanese culture, especially during martial law

I wish taiwan can be idependent identity that can developing our minnan culture to the world

Kicks out all of waishengren, chiangkaisek is loser and he suck !

Taiwan toklip...bansui..bansui...


Since the majority of Taipei citizens are Hoklo and can speak minnanyu, why would younger people less fluent in minnan language?

Do the younger people in Taipei prefer to speak Mandarin?



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minh77
post Nov 9 2011, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (progen @ Nov 9 2011, 11:37 AM) *
Since the majority of Taipei citizens are Hoklo and can speak minnanyu, why would younger people less fluent in minnan language?

Do the younger people in Taipei prefer to speak Mandarin?



Because in taiwan. Kuomintang goverment made effort to associate hoklo langguage with negative image, such like lowly rural langguage or gangsta related langguage, and there is even permanent banned in school, the kids who caught up speaking hoklo, will be punished by the teacher, they are going to kill hoklo langguage and assimilate their speaker into mandarin langguage since hoklo langguage and culture is the langguage that related with taiwan independence, all of this is kuomintang policy

No wonder young people are less fluent in hoklo even their parent are hoklo people

Don't even say the limitation and banning in goverment and public place

If not the lee teng hui left up martial law, minnanyu will be not longer existed,

If you see in mangka movie, still you can see taipei ppl speak hoklo especially in traditional district
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Yerroperil
post Nov 10 2011, 01:38 AM
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QUOTE (minh77 @ Nov 9 2011, 08:08 PM) *
Because in taiwan. Kuomintang goverment made effort to associate hoklo langguage with negative image, such like lowly rural langguage or gangsta related langguage, and there is even permanent banned in school, the kids who caught up speaking hoklo, will be punished by the teacher, they are going to kill hoklo langguage and assimilate their speaker into mandarin langguage since hoklo langguage and culture is the langguage that related with taiwan independence, all of this is kuomintang policy

No wonder young people are less fluent in hoklo even their parent are hoklo people

Don't even say the limitation and banning in goverment and public place

If not the lee teng hui left up martial law, minnanyu will be not longer existed,

If you see in mangka movie, still you can see taipei ppl speak hoklo especially in traditional district

I thought Minnan dying out in the north is because the majority of waishegren migrated to the northern parts of Taiwan(there were towns in Southern Taiwan who were pure waishengren),from what my relatives told me Minnan is taught in kindergarten and some grade schools part after that mandarin replaces it. I don't have a high opinion about lee teng hui hes a Japanese c!ck sucker,he even visited the Yasukuni shrine(granted his brother was enshrined there but still),his Taiwanese identity is retarded Minnan originated in Fujian don't try to make it that Taiwanese made it up themselves.

This post has been edited by Yerroperil: Nov 10 2011, 01:44 AM
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MiCC
post Nov 10 2011, 01:41 AM
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QUOTE (progen @ Oct 30 2011, 05:48 PM) *
I heard that the mainlanders make up on 30% of the population in Taipei. However, people in Taipei still mostly speaks Mandarin, instead of Taiwanese.

I would think that most Taiwanese prefer to speak Taiwanese, even though they live in Taipei.


Stop taking CHINESE dialects and making it another language. Do you see Americans calling English Americanese?
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minh77
post Nov 10 2011, 05:50 AM
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QUOTE (Yerroperil @ Nov 10 2011, 01:38 AM) *
I thought Minnan dying out in the north is because the majority of waishegren migrated to the northern parts of Taiwan(there were towns in Southern Taiwan who were pure waishengren),from what my relatives told me Minnan is taught in kindergarten and some grade schools part after that mandarin replaces it. I don't have a high opinion about lee teng hui hes a Japanese c!ck sucker,he even visited the Yasukuni shrine(granted his brother was enshrined there but still),his Taiwanese identity is retarded Minnan originated in Fujian don't try to make it that Taiwanese made it up themselves.



actually l don't like lee teng hui especially he is japanese wannabe mentality, but it his effort to bring minnan into mainstream since it has been banned for long years, it lee teng hui left the martial law unless minnan is gonna be an dying out langguage like in northern taiwan,

Kuomintang give nothing for taiwan local culture, anyway abian also built up hakka tv for hakka people, I don't see kuomintang give any effort on this issue

Actually northern taiwan has many minnan speaker but due to waishengren and kuomintang goverment pressure, it has decreased a lot, only old people speak it in northern taiwan...it that kind of policy is keepin on, the entire taiwan will be no more any minnan speaker

Actually. Minnan culture will more developing if taiwan stand alone as idenpendent identity, I don't has many faith on waishengren and mainlander since their policy always trying to assimilate the other sub culture and make it northern mandarin culture

Like xiamen, full of outsider, nobody give $hit for their local minnan culture

Nor do I ever cctv chanel broadcasting any minnan culture or guangdong culture, all they care just dongbei er ren zhuan or other northern folk culture

Only in taiwan, minnan culture can be flourish as big major culture like guangdong people do in hongkong

I speaking from minnan speaker point of view...
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Yerroperil
post Nov 10 2011, 08:51 AM
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QUOTE (minh77 @ Nov 10 2011, 05:50 AM) *
actually l don't like lee teng hui especially he is japanese wannabe mentality, but it his effort to bring minnan into mainstream since it has been banned for long years, it lee teng hui left the martial law unless minnan is gonna be an dying out langguage like in northern taiwan,

Kuomintang give nothing for taiwan local culture, anyway abian also built up hakka tv for hakka people, I don't see kuomintang give any effort on this issue

Actually northern taiwan has many minnan speaker but due to waishengren and kuomintang goverment pressure, it has decreased a lot, only old people speak it in northern taiwan...it that kind of policy is keepin on, the entire taiwan will be no more any minnan speaker

Actually. Minnan culture will more developing if taiwan stand alone as idenpendent identity, I don't has many faith on waishengren and mainlander since their policy always trying to assimilate the other sub culture and make it northern mandarin culture

Like xiamen, full of outsider, nobody give $hit for their local minnan culture

Nor do I ever cctv chanel broadcasting any minnan culture or guangdong culture, all they care just dongbei er ren zhuan or other northern folk culture

Only in taiwan, minnan culture can be flourish as big major culture like guangdong people do in hongkong

I speaking from minnan speaker point of view...

Well,the old KMT not sure about todays was a major @sshole,228 incident wasn't pretty(it was a tragedy but what I dislike about DPP is that they constantly bring it up trying to drive a rift between waishengren and bendiren something that should be avoided),Chiang Kai shek wasn't suited to rule people hes a military general. What I find hilarious is that somehow some Taiwanese think Minnan is indigenous... Due to the the amount of northerners and previous KMT rule Mandarin is predominant in Northern Taiwan especially Taipei,Minnan isn't going to disappear in the south some people are hardcore DPP supporters,the only problem with how "Taiwanese" culture should flourish spawns bullsh!t that Southern Taiwanese bendiren are sinified aboriginal lmao. When I was in China during last month all the talent shows that my relatives watched always featured minority groups(Mongolians,Tibetans etc),I find it strange that the CPP caters more to minorities then to some Han Chinese. I don't see Minnan culture dying out,Minnan speakers are in SEA which at least to my grandmother are mutually intelligible(not Teochew though),however I don't think the CCP wants to erase other dialects of Chinese on purpose.
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minh77
post Nov 10 2011, 09:41 AM
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QUOTE (Yerroperil @ Nov 10 2011, 08:51 AM) *
Well,the old KMT not sure about todays was a major @sshole,228 incident wasn't pretty(it was a tragedy but what I dislike about DPP is that they constantly bring it up trying to drive a rift between waishengren and bendiren something that should be avoided),Chiang Kai shek wasn't suited to rule people hes a military general. What I find hilarious is that somehow some Taiwanese think Minnan is indigenous... Due to the the amount of northerners and previous KMT rule Mandarin is predominant in Northern Taiwan especially Taipei,Minnan isn't going to disappear in the south some people are hardcore DPP supporters,the only problem with how "Taiwanese" culture should flourish spawns bullsh!t that Southern Taiwanese bendiren are sinified aboriginal lmao. When I was in China during last month all the talent shows that my relatives watched always featured minority groups(Mongolians,Tibetans etc),I find it strange that the CPP caters more to minorities then to some Han Chinese. I don't see Minnan culture dying out,Minnan speakers are in SEA which at least to my grandmother are mutually intelligible(not Teochew though),however I don't think the CCP wants to erase other dialects of Chinese on purpose.


Indeed, some southern taiwanese look indigenous people, some politican like shu jia quan looks close to ami or malays but he speak minnan lol, I think northern taiwanese more have east asian look than the southern one,ex : ashin mayday vocal, he is hoklo but he has very eastern look, anyway overall majority taiwanese still looks han

Minnan in sea also facing the same problem when people come to deal how to pass down minnan langguage to next generation, since many minnan people are go out from their hometown, in the big city, like jakarta indonesia, younger ppl are prefer speaking indo langguage, the chance to speak minnan are less than indo langguage, but in village or city where minnan people forming as majority, minnan has basic strong hold like medan indonesia, penang malaysia etc

Cpp has their political aim in order to calm down those minority separaties, giving them cultural expression on television, this is also propaganda to tell the world how harmony china is, but the reality, we don't know what is going on the grassroot level

I never seen any provincial tv chanel using their own dialect, even guangzhou has to use mandarin

I can bet that cantonese wouldn't become wellknown if hongkong never under control by england as separated govermental identity, it will be come local culture only, example like shanghai langguage, outside of wu region, nobody know how to speak shanghai or any wu langguage song, and soon it will be replaced by mandarin

There is experiment cpp want to change tibetan into mandarin on the school level, but it gained huge protest

Even they don't have erasing policy, but it can be predictable, since younger generation never has their own dialect education since early ages, than it sooner disappear, I heard taiwanese already have start teaching minnan in elementary level


Anyway, some waishengren are more loyal to prc than taiwan, recently there is issue about song zuyi has been offered by prc to become head goverment of hunan province. This guy is going to run the election but suddenly has face serious issue,lol

The funny thing those silly t taiwanese keep denying their cultural roots from southern fujian, I ever watched some protest rally againts goverment when they refused their taiyu tobe named as minnan, they said our langguage didn't have affiliate with snake, min has particle looks like worms or snake, they protest on that, meanwhile in the another side of the strait, lot of minnan region (xiamen quanzhou zhangzhou) keep boasting their relationship with taiwan as minnan brotherhood, they wanna take credit of taiwan since it has same roots, ironicly some taiwanese didn't think the same way, but overall people still has their close feeling one to another, like sea minnan to other minnan


Anyway, do u keeping your eye taiwan election this year? It quite interesting to follow

Now, dpp has their 3 pig program and it countered by kuomintang by using their ping an fu or something

Don't know what going next, as it only remain two month
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progen
post Nov 10 2011, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (minh77 @ Nov 9 2011, 09:08 PM) *
Because in taiwan. Kuomintang goverment made effort to associate hoklo langguage with negative image, such like lowly rural langguage or gangsta related langguage, and there is even permanent banned in school, the kids who caught up speaking hoklo, will be punished by the teacher, they are going to kill hoklo langguage and assimilate their speaker into mandarin langguage since hoklo langguage and culture is the langguage that related with taiwan independence, all of this is kuomintang policy

No wonder young people are less fluent in hoklo even their parent are hoklo people

Don't even say the limitation and banning in goverment and public place

If not the lee teng hui left up martial law, minnanyu will be not longer existed,

If you see in mangka movie, still you can see taipei ppl speak hoklo especially in traditional district


Well, you had 8 years of Lee Tung Hui, and 8 years of Chen Shuibian. That is 16 years of local rule. I would assume that most people in Taipei are now speaking minnan instead of Mandarin.

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Yerroperil
post Nov 10 2011, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (minh77 @ Nov 10 2011, 09:41 AM) *
Indeed, some southern taiwanese look indigenous people, some politican like shu jia quan looks close to ami or malays but he speak minnan lol, I think northern taiwanese more have east asian look than the southern one,ex : ashin mayday vocal, he is hoklo but he has very eastern look, anyway overall majority taiwanese still looks han

Minnan in sea also facing the same problem when people come to deal how to pass down minnan langguage to next generation, since many minnan people are go out from their hometown, in the big city, like jakarta indonesia, younger ppl are prefer speaking indo langguage, the chance to speak minnan are less than indo langguage, but in village or city where minnan people forming as majority, minnan has basic strong hold like medan indonesia, penang malaysia etc

Cpp has their political aim in order to calm down those minority separaties, giving them cultural expression on television, this is also propaganda to tell the world how harmony china is, but the reality, we don't know what is going on the grassroot level

I never seen any provincial tv chanel using their own dialect, even guangzhou has to use mandarin

I can bet that cantonese wouldn't become wellknown if hongkong never under control by england as separated govermental identity, it will be come local culture only, example like shanghai langguage, outside of wu region, nobody know how to speak shanghai or any wu langguage song, and soon it will be replaced by mandarin

There is experiment cpp want to change tibetan into mandarin on the school level, but it gained huge protest

Even they don't have erasing policy, but it can be predictable, since younger generation never has their own dialect education since early ages, than it sooner disappear, I heard taiwanese already have start teaching minnan in elementary level


Anyway, some waishengren are more loyal to prc than taiwan, recently there is issue about song zuyi has been offered by prc to become head goverment of hunan province. This guy is going to run the election but suddenly has face serious issue,lol

The funny thing those silly t taiwanese keep denying their cultural roots from southern fujian, I ever watched some protest rally againts goverment when they refused their taiyu tobe named as minnan, they said our langguage didn't have affiliate with snake, min has particle looks like worms or snake, they protest on that, meanwhile in the another side of the strait, lot of minnan region (xiamen quanzhou zhangzhou) keep boasting their relationship with taiwan as minnan brotherhood, they wanna take credit of taiwan since it has same roots, ironicly some taiwanese didn't think the same way, but overall people still has their close feeling one to another, like sea minnan to other minnan


Anyway, do u keeping your eye taiwan election this year? It quite interesting to follow

Now, dpp has their 3 pig program and it countered by kuomintang by using their ping an fu or something

Don't know what going next, as it only remain two month

My family is considered Southern Taiwanese and they don't look at thing like Austronesian only rural places do I see the look more(even then its pretty rare most of the people who look "Austronesian" have just some traits),or it just might be my paternal grandfather's genes but that doesn't explain my mothers side... Minnan is not going to die out where I'm currently living,heck I can't even properly converse with locals because they mostly speak Minnan but if they speak Mandarin its heavily accented(I live in Yanchao township,formerly Kaoshiung County but my grandmother told me Kaoshiung County was merged with Kaoshiung City last year. There is harmony in China until minorities start up sh!t,haha American news always paint Uighurs as victims however in real life they are thieves... The waishengren I met are mostly retired soldiers,they don't have much love for PRC,some even cry since they never had the chance to meet their parents again... Yeah,my uncle told me Minnan is taught in some elementary schools. For Taiwanese who deny there cultural roots are retarded,my ancestral home is Fujian(too many cities...). lmao KMT went ape because some children donated money,and Kuomintang uses a Taiwan Talisman thing to boost support in the South,I could care less who wins as long as it doesn't result in severing of relationships between PRC and ROC I hope eventual reunification will follow but time will tell. Anyway according to polls I seen DPP and KMT votes are pretty close,due to Soong Chu yu running.
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LoveNStrife
post Feb 8 2012, 04:15 AM
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QUOTE (minh77 @ Nov 10 2011, 02:50 AM) *
actually l don't like lee teng hui especially he is japanese wannabe mentality, but it his effort to bring minnan into mainstream since it has been banned for long years, it lee teng hui left the martial law unless minnan is gonna be an dying out langguage like in northern taiwan,

Kuomintang give nothing for taiwan local culture, anyway abian also built up hakka tv for hakka people, I don't see kuomintang give any effort on this issue

Actually northern taiwan has many minnan speaker but due to waishengren and kuomintang goverment pressure, it has decreased a lot, only old people speak it in northern taiwan...it that kind of policy is keepin on, the entire taiwan will be no more any minnan speaker

Actually. Minnan culture will more developing if taiwan stand alone as idenpendent identity, I don't has many faith on waishengren and mainlander since their policy always trying to assimilate the other sub culture and make it northern mandarin culture

Like xiamen, full of outsider, nobody give $hit for their local minnan culture

Nor do I ever cctv chanel broadcasting any minnan culture or guangdong culture, all they care just dongbei er ren zhuan or other northern folk culture

Only in taiwan, minnan culture can be flourish as big major culture like guangdong people do in hongkong

I speaking from minnan speaker point of view...


Yes, I agree that all Southern Chinese cultures are imperiled. The CCP should make a guarantee to Taiwan that in case of reunification, they would make everyone speak Ban-lam-gu there. What do you think?
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tch
post Feb 10 2012, 05:05 AM
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QUOTE (minh77 @ Nov 10 2011, 09:08 AM) *
Because in taiwan. Kuomintang goverment made effort to associate hoklo langguage with negative image, such like lowly rural langguage or gangsta related langguage, and there is even permanent banned in school, the kids who caught up speaking hoklo, will be punished by the teacher, they are going to kill hoklo langguage and assimilate their speaker into mandarin langguage since hoklo langguage and culture is the langguage that related with taiwan independence, all of this is kuomintang policy

No wonder young people are less fluent in hoklo even their parent are hoklo people

Don't even say the limitation and banning in goverment and public place

If not the lee teng hui left up martial law, minnanyu will be not longer existed,

If you see in mangka movie, still you can see taipei ppl speak hoklo especially in traditional district



Hi I am from singapore and for some strange reasons, people here also regard minnan(we called hokkien) as low class language. Never thought that there is such a stigma in Taiwan. I hate it when the gov banned dialect on TV and forced us to adopt hanyupinyin name instead of the tradition dialect name. (Though we still retain our dialect surnames like Tan instead of chen, Khoo instead of Qiu)

What ever it is i regard minnan as my first mother tongue and mandarin a second.

This post has been edited by tch: Feb 10 2012, 05:08 AM
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COPE2
post Dec 14 2012, 02:31 AM
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theres a very simple explanation for this. in tw schools, from 1950 hokien was not allowed to be spoken until the 1990s. therefore, people are more comfortable with mandarin. So you're looking at a 40 yr time period, where people were "forced" to speak mandarin. even people from southern taiwan may not speak hokien. i know a guy in his 20s who grew up in south tw, and does not speak hokien. he said, students were encouraged to hit one another if they were speaking hokien. it was only until the 1990s that hokien made a come back, as a result of the u.s/japan backed tw independence movement. relatively speaking, most taiwanese are more comfortable with mandarin than mainlanders, because the mainland never enforced any mandarin only rule, therefore, you still have a lot of mainlanders who cant speak mandarin. the usage of shanghainese is much more prevalent in shanghai, than hokien is in taipei.

and yes, hokien was seen as being low class, because the ruling class of tw had been mainlanders, and the worst kinds of mainlanders too, thats why they were ejected from the mainland in the first place. one of the primary motivations behind the tw independence movement is the mistreatment that the hoklos suffered from the mainlanders. so the argument of the hoklo is that the mainland sucks because mainlanders abused us. the reason why they can get away with this argument is because they dont understand that these mainlanders that abused them are different from the mainlanders who kicked out the kmt. so they play off of this misunderstanding and rally all the ignorant hoklos against the mainlanders. actually alot of the hoklo farmers have more in common with mainland farmers than they do with the hoklo bourgeoisie. it takes a little bit of intelligence to realise that we are not divided by province as much as we are divided by class. if the hoklos figured out the mainland farmers were fighting against the same kmt who were bullying the hoklos, the tw independence movement would die because they have nothing to base their anti Chinese hatred on.

also, southern dialects in general are regarded as low class, because the Chinese capital is based in the north. southern Chinese have traditionally been less educated, so that might be one of the reasons for the snobbery. but actually mandarin is more foreign, because southern dialects are based on a more ancient form of Chinese, whereas mandarin is a relatively new arrival to China and is possibly associated with the Manchus rather than the Han. Thats why if you listen to Japanese, and Korean pronounciations of Chinese words, they are based on southern dialects.

This post has been edited by COPE2: Dec 14 2012, 02:35 AM
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