Beauties of Mường land Options

[daxas24]

That Zhuang version is so messed up

Nan Yue didn't exist at the same time with Van Lang and Xi Ou.
A pricess defeated a sea monster with her martial arts, lol. That's one awesome princess.

[MisterPopo]

GO AWAY. GO HAVE FUN WITH YOUR WAR AND MILITARY THREADS. LEAVE OUR CULTURE TOPICS ALONE.

you a kinda bored Viet Kieu girl

[XigonCongchua]

That Zhuang version is so messed up

Nan Yue didn't exist at the same time with Van Lang and Xi Ou.
A pricess defeated a sea monster with her martial arts, lol. That's one awesome princess.

Yep their version got so messed up. Our versions are much more chronological and go hand-in-hand with the Muong and Tay accounts.

[daxas24]

I think, due to the majority of the Muong living in the south of the Red River, it's very unlikely that's they're Au Viet

[XigonCongchua]

I think, due to the majority of the Muong living in the south of the Red River, it's very unlikely that's they're Au Viet

Yea, Au Viet were the Tày people. This is confirmed. I have no doubt about it since ethnic Tày of Cao Bằng claim themselves to be descendants of this tribe.

Muong were part of the Lac Viet tribe. They could be some outcast subgroup of the Lac Viet people. Remember that according to our legend, Lạc Việt had 15 subgroups.

Basically, you have
Âu Việt = highland people in the west ~ Tày and Nùng
Lạc Việt = lowland people in the red river delta ~ Kinh and Mường

This post has been edited by XigonCongchua: Jul 10 2010, 02:42 AM

[Potatosalad]

nice thread didnt know we have relatives

[Aristotle]

nice thread didnt know we have relatives

Scholars believe that the the separation and development of the Moung and Vietnamese language did not begin until the Tang dynasty or later.

Chinese occupation created lots of instability thus there were a significant of population movements away from Chinese control. The people that moved up to the highland became the Moung, while those that stay below to live a life of lowland peasantry are today's Vietnamese.

-----
But, yes, although Vietnamese lived under Chinese domination, paying taxes to Chinese officials, but Vietnamese has always stay true to themselves. the Vietnamese language survived, never lost faith of the past and heritage, and preserve disincentive thoughts and emotion, in which keep the vision alive for an independent Vietnam. so you can say that Vietnamese hast change much by the Chinese.

This post has been edited by Aristotle: Jul 10 2010, 11:27 AM

[XigonCongchua]

^ That's only the speculation of the some. You got that from wikipedia? The separation must have been very early to explain why they tell folk tales from a totally different perspective from ours. Not to mention their clothes and their head-dress are very different from ours. Sure you can point out some similarities but overall they are still very different. Look at the Jing in China. They separated from us 700 years ago (that's almost 1000 years) and despite being under great influence of Chinese, their head-dress and clothes are still similar to áo tứ thân. Their national instrument, the monochord đàn bầu is the same as ours. Mường people don't have đàn bầu. Their ethnic instrument is something very different.

Plus Muong is not sinicized like us, their culture is nowhere similar to Chinese. Viet broke away from China after the Tang dynasty fell. If Viet and Muong separated during the Tang dynasty then we should expect Muong to be sinicized to a similar level as ours. But obviously they are not. We are MUCH more sinicized than them. Some of them still keep some bronze drums as sacred object of their family up until the 20th century before these bronze drums were taken away by the French. This tells us they were not under Chinese domination like us and that they must have separated from us over 2000 years ago.

Anyhow Aristotle is never good at telling Viet culture and Viet history. He only started learning about it last year or the year before last year when I told him to. And he can't tell a Vietnamese tale from a foreign tale.

[XigonCongchua]

And I'm sorry but things are not perfect like some of you think. You may want to think that we preserved our culture and our language and so on, but the reality is not like that. We lost many traditions and customs. Sure we preserved the core ones but we lost many others. 70% of our language are Sino-Viet words. Another 20% (that are considered "thuần Việt) are similar to pre-Han Chinese, that could either be the Chinese borrowed from our ancestors or our ancestor borrowed from the Chinese. And yes we're mixed with Chinese, not extensive like some trolls try to portray but could be like 10% Chinese or 90% Viet. So don't quick jump into some lala land and assume we're pure Viet or anything. Well purity doesn't exist.

[FieryOFTheEast]

He can't see your posts, he ignored them LOL

[sinster]

And I'm sorry but things are not perfect like some of you think. You may want to think that we preserved our culture and our language and so on, but the reality is not like that. We lost many traditions and customs. Sure we preserved the core ones but we lost many others. 70% of our language are Sino-Viet words. Another 20% (that are considered "thuần Việt) are similar to pre-Han Chinese, that could either be the Chinese borrowed from our ancestors or our ancestor borrowed from the Chinese. And yes we're mixed with Chinese, not extensive like some trolls try to portray but could be like 10% Chinese or 90% Viet. So don't quick jump into some lala land and assume we're pure Viet or anything. Well purity doesn't exist.

Hahah, nice Xigon. I thought u were one of those viets in their lala land. Now since u r honest and everything, there will be nothing for me to say =)

just curious.. so where did u get these 10% chinese and 90% viet $hit number?

This post has been edited by sinster: Jul 10 2010, 03:25 PM

[sinster]

He can't see your posts, he ignored them LOL

Hahah, i am surprised. i thought they were frens

[office]

And I'm sorry but things are not perfect like some of you think. You may want to think that we preserved our culture and our language and so on, but the reality is not like that. We lost many traditions and customs. Sure we preserved the core ones but we lost many others. 70% of our language are Sino-Viet words. Another 20% (that are considered "thuần Việt) are similar to pre-Han Chinese, that could either be the Chinese borrowed from our ancestors or our ancestor borrowed from the Chinese. And yes we're mixed with Chinese, not extensive like some trolls try to portray but could be like 10% Chinese or 90% Viet. So don't quick jump into some lala land and assume we're pure Viet or anything. Well purity doesn't exist.

Finally, a Viet that's not too ignorant to accept reality.

[office]

Hahah, nice Xigon. I thought u were one of those viets in their lala land. Now since u r honest and everything, there will be nothing for me to say =)

just curious.. so where did u get these 10% chinese and 90% viet $hit number?

Out of her beaver, where else? LOL

This post has been edited by office: Jul 10 2010, 03:31 PM

[FieryOFTheEast]

Hahah, i am surprised. i thought they were frens .

I know this is off topic but... is it true that in China the school teaches the kids that the Chinese are evolved from the Homo erectus instead of the Homo sapiens?

This post has been edited by FieryOFTheEast: Jul 10 2010, 03:52 PM

[office]

Scholars believe that the the separation and development of the Moung and Vietnamese language did not begin until the Tang dynasty or later.

Chinese occupation created lots of instability thus there were a significant of population movements away from Chinese control. The people that moved up to the highland became the Moung, while those that stay below to live a life of lowland peasantry are today's Vietnamese.

-----
But, yes, although Vietnamese lived under Chinese domination, paying taxes to Chinese officials, but Vietnamese has always stay true to themselves. the Vietnamese language survived, never lost faith of the past and heritage, and preserve disincentive thoughts and emotion, in which keep the vision alive for an independent Vietnam. so you can say that Vietnamese hast change much by the Chinese.

Which Vietnamese writing system survived?

Khoa Đẩu (the so called Ancient Vietnamese writing)

Chữ Nôm (utilize Chinese character)

Hán tự (employed in writing classical Chinese and Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary)

or Present day Quoc-ngu (Latin based)

Hooray, the Latin based one survived today (Vietnam language indeed did survived according to Aristotle)..

^_^

This post has been edited by office: Jul 10 2010, 04:04 PM

[sinster]

Out of her beaver, where else? LOL

Lawl, well, she is a proud viet, but she is quite an honest one too, for now, willing to accept some hard reality. Therefore I must give her some respect. =)

[office]

Scholars believe that the the separation and development of the Moung and Vietnamese language did not begin until the Tang dynasty or later.

Chinese occupation created lots of instability thus there were a significant of population movements away from Chinese control. The people that moved up to the highland became the Moung, while those that stay below to live a life of lowland peasantry are today's Vietnamese.

-----
But, yes, although Vietnamese lived under Chinese domination, paying taxes to Chinese officials, but Vietnamese has always stay true to themselves. the Vietnamese language survived, never lost faith of the past and heritage, and preserve disincentive thoughts and emotion, in which keep the vision alive for an independent Vietnam. so you can say that Vietnamese hast change much by the Chinese.

By all means I agree that Vietnamese national identity is still intact, but philosophically/culturally speaking, I'm very sorry.


Study Confucianism and Taoism's influence in Vietnamese History.
In plain English, Vietnamese value/practice/worship Chinese ethical and philosophical system

This post has been edited by office: Jul 10 2010, 04:24 PM

[FieryOFTheEast]

By all means I agree that Vietnamese national identity is still intact, but culturally speaking, I'm very sorry.


Study Confucianism and Taoism's influence in Vietnamese History.
In plain English, Vietnamese value/practice/worship Chinese ethical and philosophical system

DUDE, we all now that Vietnamese culture is practically sinicized... Xigon has already stated that...

[Aristotle]

Which Vietnamese writing system survived?

Khoa Đẩu (the so called Ancient Vietnamese writing)

Chữ Nôm (utilize Chinese character)

Hán tự (employed in writing classical Chinese and Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary)

or Present day Quoc-ngu (Latin based)

Hooray, the Latin based one survived today (Vietnam language indeed did survived according to Aristotle)..

^_^

I said the Vietnamese language survived, not writing system. Man you're arguing against a straw man argument which you made up, not my original statement.


Another dumbass to the ignore list.



I should have done this years ago.