The Kedah Kingdom, Let's have some fun discussing the history n origins of Kedah Options

[dreamhunter]

Guys, I think it's about time for a thread on the history n origins of the ancient Kedah kingdom. Appreciate your contributions:

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Once upon a time, in ancient times, there was a king from an ancient land. He had just lost a battle, n his enemies were then baying for his blood.

The time was many thousands of years ago. The land was Persia. The king was chief of an ancient warlike people called the Cymmerians (pronounced as 'Kimmerians'). The locals would have called them Qimiri, Ghimiri, Gimiri, Qumran, Ghumran or Gumran.

{Historians say that the Cymmerians were an Indo-European (formerly called Aryan) tribe. Persian/Iranian people simply say that they were one of the many Persian/Iranian tribes of ancient times. FYI, many of those ancient Persian/Iranian tribes have today been absorbed n assimilated into later Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Georgian, Serbian etc.) tribes who defeated them n conquered thair former lands.}

Anyway, his warriors managed to rescue him, smuggled him away through enemy lines, until they reached the sea. He thus made his escape n sailed away eastwards, in the direction of the Hind (India).

His intended destination was Lanka Dwipa (Sri Lanka). But then he got caught in a heavy monsoon rainstorm, with strong winds blowing him way off his course.

Eventually, after many, many weeks of sailing, he reached a rivermouth with a big, tall mountain in the background. The place was called Kataha by the Tamils, n Qadaram by the Arabs. The locals just called it Kedah. The mountain was Gunung Jerai.

The locals welcomed our Cymmerian friend with open arms, being the hospitable folks they were known for. They called him 'raja orang Gemeron', Gemeron being their way of saying 'Ghumran' in their local dialect.

They thought him a pleasant, distinguished-looking n intelligent man. Since they didn't have a king yet at that time, they gladly requested him to be their king.

He then proceeded to fill his new fledgling court with Persian princes from his motherland as his supporting aristocracy. Thus began the first ancient kingdom of Kedah.

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BTW, legend is legend, n history is history. Quite often legend gets interwoven with real history. But for me, that shouldn't stop us from having fun making an effort to find out, to sift through the sands of time, while collecting new nuggets of knowledge n wisdom from folks of the ancient past.

Over to ya, guys.

[dreamhunter]

Just to get the thread going:

* * * * *

There was an Arnold Schwarnegger movie in early 1980s that was inspired by those American Conan comics. But his movie was set in way, way more ancient times. 10,000 BC actually. The Ice Ages, like. To sidestep the potential problems that would crop up in relation to historical, archaeological etc. accuracy.

So they can just play anything they wanted in their show.

N some folks reckon his Cymmeria was actually somewhere in north-western Europe. Britain, perhaps.

Whereas the real, historical Cymmerians (pronounced 'Kimmerians') came from the southern Balkans, to invade Asia Minor and went all the way into much of ancient Persia.

These nomadic tribes were called Kimmeroi (i.e. Cymmerians) by Greek authors first came to eastern Europe and Asia Minor in 730 BC after they were pushed out from Central Asia by the Ishkuz (also called Shaka or Scythians).

This people of Indo-European (Aryan/Iranian) stock, which came to the Caspian steppes from the south, now moved west and invaded Eastern Europe, where they had to fight with Thracians and Illyrians in Pannonia, and Asia Minor, where they came via the Caucasus.

In Anatolia (in today's central Turkay), Cymmerians were first paid tribute and used as mercenary troops for different empires (the usual Empires' way of treating nomads), but later decided to demand more.

* * * * *

Pls continue.

[dreamhunter]

Just little a strand more:

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Some folks reckon that our Cymmerian (pronounced 'Kimmerian') hero, the so called 'raja orang Gemeron' {king of the Gumran (Gimiri/Qumran/Qimiri/Kimmeroi/Cymmerians)}came to Kedah in 630 AD n became Maharaja Derbar Raja of Kedah in 634 AD.

But then that sort of time frame wouldn't fit in with the generally accepted period when the nomadic Cymmerians were supposed to have been displaced by the Ishkuz (Shaka/Scythians) n dissappeared as a military power in West Asia, thereby absorbed by other tribes/nations in Persia n Asia Minor, much much earlier before that time.

Like I said, one explanation I could offer is that there could have been remnant, residual, isolated, surviving Cymmerian tribes still marauding around in Persia around 530 AD.

After all, they were supposed to be a fierce warlike people. So they surely must have had quite formidable survival skills.

* * * * *

[AwangPembela]

You've got some interesting thoughts there, Dreamy.

I have read about your Cymmerians too, actually. Plus done my own stuff on Maharaja Derbar Raja n Merong Mahawangsa/Phra Ong Mahawangsa also.

My take is that the 'raja orang Gemeron' or 'king of the Gumran/Cymmerians'; Maharaja Derbar Raja; n Merong Mahawangsa/Phra Ong Mahawangsa; were actually 3 completely different guys in 3 totally different time frames. But all of them could have been kings of the ancient Kedah kingdom each in their own time.

That would have cleared up any inconsistencies in chronology, dont you think?

[AwangPembela]

There is also an inscribed stone at Cherok Tok Kun, still standing in the grounds of St. Anne's Church, in ancient Palli script.

The inscription apparently dates from around the 4th century AD, and reads: "I acknowledge the enemies of the contented king Ramaunibha and the wicked are ever afflicted."

Other than being a likely Kedahan king, who exactly he was n where he originated from, I'm still trying hard to find out.

[AwangPembela]

http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Early_history_of_Kedah

Kedah is one of many early Malay Peninsula trade centres that have been found, many have yet to be identified. Its location at the entrance to the Straits of Malacca, on the same latitude as south India provided a natural sailing route between the two points, ships could sail due east or due west on the Bay of Bengal without danger of becoming lost. Early west coast trade centres are few in number as they were overshadowed by Kedah. After the 7th century, Kedah was subjugated by Srivijaya but due to its well known, the Indian sources continue to depict Kedah. Early Kedah supplied the most in tin and jungle products such as rattan, resin, honey, beeswax, elephants, ivory, areca nuts, sepang wood and black woods, and profited from tax collections.

The early transpeninsular routeway is part of the Spice Route (Sea trade route from Arab, Persia, India to China) that occurred in the Malay Peninsula, as the route through the Straits of Malacca does not seem to have been in general use. Early sea traders reached the coast of the peninsula, they let the local porters transport their goods, using rafts, elephants and manpowers. The porters propelled along the rivers (Kelantan River, Pattani River, Pahang River, Muda River, Bernam River, Muar River, and others) to the opposite coast of the peninsula. The Sungai Muda in particular favoured the development of Kedah.

The early history of Kedah can be traced from various sources. From the prehistoric period to the archeological site of Bujang Valley, the early Maritime trade of India, Persia, Arabs to the written works of early Chinese pilgrims and early Chinese records, the Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa (known as Kedah Annals) to Al-Tarikh Salasilah Negeri Kedah. In the early days, Kedah was known by the Indians as Kedaram, Kidaram, Kalagam and Kataha, and Kalah or Kalaha by the Persians.

[AwangPembela]

http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Early_history_of_Kedah

The seafarers
An artist impression of the early Seafarers of the Malay Archipelago.According to the prehistoric Yunnan migration theory, there was seafaring peoples migrated along the Mekong River some 5000-10000 years ago, these seafaring peoples later colonized much of the Malay Archipelago, they inhabited on the coastal areas of the archipelago and other remote islands. The seafarers possessed advanced navigation skills, some of the seafarers sailed as far as New Zealand, Hawaii and Madagascar. These seafaring peoples, together with the original inhabitants Orang Asli, Indian, Persian, Arab, Chinese and others, who resided in the region, became the Deutero-Malays. Some of them intermarried, some not.

Seafarers and maritime trade
One of the sources claimed the Greco-Roman traders that established trading quarters in South India in the 1st century CE describe huge non-Indian ships coming from the east with rich cargoes, probably from the Malay Archipelago region. This clearly indicates that, there existed large numbers of seaborne experts. They provide their services in the early Maritime trade and it is likely they were the shippers who handled much of the traffic between Southeast Asia and India.

The Indian colonies
Gradually the Indian who had trades with the archipelago seafarers, settled at Kedah and various other locations such as Funan and Champa. The earliest localized Hindu Sanskrit inscription stones came from Kedah region dating back around 400 CE. One of the early inscription stones discovered by James Low in 1840s, at Bukit Meriam and in Muda River, was inscribed with Buddhist text mention “the great sea captain Buddhagupta, a resident of Raktamrrtika”. The word Raktamrrtika means ‘Red Earth’ (Tanah Merah).

An Indigenous style develops
These stone inscriptions indicate that the Kedah region at 400 CE or before was already an established trade centre. The Indians and local Malays already had writing styles which differed from those of India. One of the texts include the karma verses refers to a king named Ramaunibha, he may be the first local ruler whose name is recorded in history. The history of this period showed the influence of Indian cultures on the region while the locals in return, influenced the Indians in their living skills on the sea and in the hills.

[dreamhunter]

You've got some interesting thoughts there, Dreamy.

I have read about your Cymmerians too, actually. Plus done my own stuff on Maharaja Derbar Raja n Merong Mahawangsa/Phra Ong Mahawangsa also.

My take is that the 'raja orang Gemeron' or 'king of the Gumran/Cymmerians'; Maharaja Derbar Raja; n Merong Mahawangsa/Phra Ong Mahawangsa; were actually 3 completely different guys in 3 totally different time frames. But all of them could have been kings of the ancient Kedah kingdom each in their own time.

That would have cleared up any inconsistencies in chronology, dont you think?

You've just floated ome ideas worth exploring, Awang. That's s good. Keep em coming.

[dreamhunter]

http://www.sabrizain.org/malaya/early1.htm

Langkasuka, the lost kingdom

The most detailed description of the early Malay kingdom of Langkasuka is found in the Liang-shu, a Chinese historical account written in the early 7th century. The frontiers of langkasuka, referred to as Lang-ya-shiu, were described as 30 days' journey from east to west, n 20 from north to south. Its capital was said to be surrounded by walls to form a city with double gates, towers n pavilions.

The accounts from the Liang-shu n other Chinese documents describe a kingdom that began in the 2nd century AD, located somewhere along the EAST coast of the Malay Peninsula/Isthmus. The most important piece of evidence of its location is provided by Wu-pei-chih, who firmly places Lang-hsi-chia to the south of Singhora (Songkhla), up to the Pattani river.

Early Malay literature, however, is quite explicit in indicating a location on the WEST coast. Passages from the Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa describe Langkasuka as a WEST coast kingdom, the predecessor of modern Kedah, with its capital at Gunong Jerai.

The evident association of Langkasuka's rulers with Pattani "beyond the forests n the hills" may suggest a kingdom that spanned the peninsula from the west coast to the east coast, where most Chinese accounts place Langkasuka's location.

This is indirect evidence that the fortunes of Langkasuka ebbed n flowed with that of its larger neighbours.

It seems to have entered a decline when it was conquered by the Funan empire between the 3rd n 6th centuries. It then experienced a resurgence after the fall of Funan, only to succumb to Srivijaya some time in the 9th century.

Tamil n Javanese texts also suggest a west coast kingdom named Ilangasoka as one of Rajendra Chola's conquests in his expedition against Srivijaya, where it was described as a kingdom that was "undaunted in fierce battles".

[PerisaiLangkasuk...]

http://www.myfareast.org/Malaysia/kedah/index.html

Kedah emerged as a major kingdom on the Malay Peninsula in the 5th century, with archaeological evidence suggesting that Kedah is the site of Peninsular Malaysia's oldest civilization. The economic abundance of Kedah drew, throughout its history, the attention of many outside forces. Before the sea route around the peninsula was firmly established, trade between India and China was conducted across the peninsular isthmus. One of the primary trading centers for this overland trade was a Hindu-Buddhist kingdom that flourished from the fourth to the seventh century in the Bujang Valley, just south of the peak of Gunung Jerai (and thus easily located by early Indian mariners). Like Malacca a thousand years later, the Bujang Valley civilization attracted a cosmopolitan population of merchants and traders, including Indians, Chinese, Achenese (from Sumatra), Burmese, and Arabs. With the arrival of Arab traders, Islam arrived on the Peninsula for the first time, though the most substantial cultural influence came from Pallava India.

As was the case with many of Malaysia's greatest trading civilizations, the Bujang Valley kingdom's prosperity made it an attractive target for outsiders. The region came under the influence of the Sumatran kingdom of Sri Vijaya in the 7th and 8th century, although Kedah was able to maintain some degree of autonomy for a brief period, Achinese attacks in 1618 led Kedah to seek protection from its former Siamese overlords, a period during which Kedah was dominated by the Siamese states to the north. Kedah's ancient civilization waned in importance by the 15th century, when Malacca assumed a more dominant role. The establishment of Islam in Kedah was due to Malacca's influence.

When Malacca fell to the Portuguese, the influence of its Sultanate over Kedah weakened. However, other powers soon asserted themselves in Kedah, including both the Portuguese and the rising Achinese, and by the end of the 18th century the Thai threat arose once more. The external pressures from Bugis, Siam and Burma increasingly weakened Kedah. The situation was exacerbated by a power struggle that sparked off a civil war in 1724. Raja Haji, a Bugis leader, took advantage of the internal chaos and invaded Kedah in 1770.

Fearing renewed domination by its northern neighbours, Kedah, via Sultan Abdullah Mukarram Syah, appealed to the British for assistance. Sir Francis Light was appointed as his representative to achieve this, armed with the guarantee of the exclusive leasing of Penang to the British East Indies Company. On 11th August 1786, Light was sent to Penang to found the first British settlement there.

In 1788, when it became apparent that the British had no intentions of aiding him, Abdullah tried to expel Light from Penang. Light, anticipating such a move, managed to repel this challenge and consequently forced Abdullah to sign over Penang on 11th May 1791. In 1800, a tract of land on the peninsula mainland, Butterworth, was signed over to the British as well.

In 1821, the Siamese conquered Kedah and ruled it for the next 20 years. Several attempts were made by the disposed Kedah Sultan to amass military support and restore the kingdom. Eventually Siam acquiesced, but not before separating Perlis from Kedah to form a separate vassal principality. Kedah itself remained a Siamese vassal state until 1909.

[dreamhunter]

Great stuff, that job you did, Jaimu Jaimu. Editing out that $hitty litle troll-ling out into oblivion.

He's been an irritant to many guys for quite a while.

He's been using various names like 'islam', 'allah', 'rasullah'. 'malaypig', n lately 'malaypignobrain' to post his very rude, highly provocative, mostly anti-Muslim, anti-Malay comments.

Keep up the good work, dude.

[Esfandiari]

Wow! This thread about Kedah really rocks!!! It really does...for me at least! Because I'm a proud son of Kedah! I was born, raised, nourished and educated in Kedah...to be exact in Alor Star... though I later on wandered off towards bigger pastures outside Kedah that now see me entrenched firmly in KL. But I never forget my Kedah!

Before I further write about Kedah, how about a signature song of Kedah:

MAI OII MAI OII CHEK MAI..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eqALdBVDJ4

Mai oii mai oii chek mai
Kita ke negeghi Kedah
Mai oii bagi ramai
Jamu nasik kawah
Naik kapai teghebang
Tughun Kepala Bataih
Makan toksah bimbang
Kami banyak beghaih
Ikut leboh raya
Teghuih Kayu Hitam
Jaga chek oii jaga kheta meneru meneghang
Khete meneghu meneghang....

And the rest of the lyrics in the song

This post has been edited by Esfandiari: Apr 30 2008, 11:37 AM

[Esfandiari]

The great state of Kedah is perhaps the oldest state and kingdom in Malaysia. Called Kadaram, Katalha, Kadah, Queda, etc in the past, Kedah went through many trials and tribulations to survive today as a kingdom within the modern nation state of Malaysia.

The oldest Hindu-Buddhist civilization, the history of Kedah goes back as far as the 4th and the 5th century. The modern Islamic sultanate of Kedah began in 1136 when the Hindu King Phra Ong Mahawangsa converted to Islam and changed his name to Sultan Muzaffar Shah. His reign lasted from 1136 to 1179 AD. The present Sultan of Kedah, Sultan Abdul Halim Muazam Shah is the 30th Sultan of Kedah in a lineage starting from Sultan Muzaffar Shah (Phra Ong Mahawangsa). HRH Sultan Abdul Halim Shah ascended the Kedah throne in 1958, taking over from his father, Sultan Badlishah, the 29th monarch of Kedah.

Kedah saw the rise and fall of the great empires of Srivijaya, Majapahit, the Malacca Sultanate and the Johor Sultanate, to all of whom Kedah was a vassal state or a part thereof. Kedah was under the control of Srivijaya empire in the 7th and 8th centuries and then under Siamese control. Kedah came under the control of the Malacca Sultanate in the 15th century until the Portuguese took over Malacca in 1511. From then on, Kedah went to intermittent wars with the Siamese (Thais), most of the time subjugating itself to Siamese rule.

Kedah was also attacked and invaded by the Cholas from Kalinga in 1023. The conquest of Kedah was considered by the Cholas as one of their greatest achievements.

In the course of defending its independence, existence and sovereignty again the Thais and the British later on, Kedah lost chunks of its territories that include Pulau Pinang and Province Wellesly (now the state of Pulau Pinang in Malaysia), Perlis (now the state of Perlis in Malaysia) and Setul (now the province of Satun in Thailand). Kedah was called Syburi when it was under Thai control.

Kedah's final war against Thailand was in 1841 when it was defeated not really by Thailand, but by a Thailand immensely helped by Britain which blockaded Kedah from the sea for 3 months to stop supplies and to allow a final and conclusive Thai assault yonder inland against Kedah.

The British actually violated the treaty that they signed with Kedah that handed over to them Pulau Pinang and Province Wellesley in return for their help for Kedah in its war against Siam. Not only the British did not help Kedah and thus violating this treaty, the British actually sent a huge naval force to blockade Kedah and help Siam retook Syburi in 1841.
In this war, Kedah lost Setul (Satun), Perlis (Muang Polit) and Kubang Pasu districts which Siam turned into separate principalities headed by a Siam-appointed chieftain.

Finally, in 1909, the Anglo-Siamese Treaty was signed by London and Bangkok to settle the issue once and for all. In this Treaty, Siam handed to Britain the Malay states of Kedah, Perlis, Kelantan and Terengganu but retained Kedah's Setul district, Pattani and Singgora (Songkhla). Kedah itself was mutilated in this Treaty: Setul was given to Thailand and renamed Satun, Perlis made an independent state within Malaya although Kubang Pasu was reverted to Kedah after a 68-year hiatus since 1909. Pulau Pinang and Province Wellesley, of course, were forever lost from Kedah and became a Straits Settlement of Britain.

Kedah joined the Federation of Malaya in 1948. In 1957, it became a part of independent Malaya, later a part of independent Malaysia in 1963.

So, that's a short history of Kedah...all the way through Katalha to Srivijaya to the Cholas to the Siamese to the British and to Malaysia...

[dreamhunter]

Wow! This thread about Kedah really rocks!!! It really does...for me at least! Because I'm a proud son of Kedah! I was born, raised, nourished and educated in Kedah...to be exact in Alor Star... though I later on wandered off towards bigger pastures outside Kedah that now see me entrenched firmly in KL. But I never forget my Kedah!

Good song, that. Could we call that a gurindam?

Perhaps you may even have some Persian blood from the ancient times of Kedah, Esfan, who knows.

So I'm banking on you to be a regular contributor to this thread now.

BTW, I haven't seen you in the Indonesian space yet. They've got some interesting threads in there. Try going in some time.

[Esfandiari]

Good song, that. Could we call that a gurindam?

Perhaps you may even have some Persian blood from the ancient times of Kedah, Esfan, who knows.

So I'm banking on you to be a regular contributor to this thread now.

BTW, I haven't seen you in the Indonesian space yet. They've got some interesting threads in there. Try going in some time.

Yeah...I thought that song is good too! Yeah, it does sound like a gurindam. Why don't we ask Bhaskara about it, he's an avid fan of culture, like tarians and stuffs like that!!

Persian blood in me!! I don't know!! But I won't be surprised if I do have that blood in me...my blood as it is now is already diverse, spanning two states in Malaysia, and four countries, you won't believe it if I tell you more about my blood!! But it's still red like anybody's blood! Hahahah!

But the theory about Persian and Gemeron/Cimmerians/Kimmeroi in Kedah as you put forth could be true! The name of the first Kedah ruler who converted to Islam, Phra Ong Merong Mahawangsa, could relate to Cimmerians/Gemeron. The part 'Merong' of the name seems to rhyme with 'Gemeron' and eventually 'Cimmerian'!! Hahaha! I don't know, I think you are more knowledgeable than me on this matter.

But old folks in Kedah say that the Kedah royal lineage also originated from Alexander the Great (Iskandar Zulkarnain) who was Macedonian and not Persian! I was told that the Kedah Annals (Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa) also listed the names of Socrates and Macedonia but these names are respectively Malayanized to 'Artalas" and 'Makadunya'!! Is it true? Sounds far-fetched to me though! You probably know more about this!!

Some legends about Kedah royal family sound even more bizarre! Like the one that says the Kedah royal line started from buluh betung!! I've heard so much about buluh betung but I really don't know what it actually is except that it is a kind of mythical plant, sort of having magic power. But it certainly sounds like cerita dongeng to me to say that somebody appeared out of a plant!! Perhaps, the royal family once deliberately created these legends to produce this effect of awsomess, magical , superhuman or mythical powers of the royal family among the rakyat in order to get complete and unquestioned loyalty from the rakyat.

About Indonesia Chat......yes, I've not ventured there yet. Don't feel like going there at the moment, perhaps in the future I may. Most of the themes there are specifically Indonesian, not much of any interest to me. Besides, some Indonesian forumers are already here participating in our Malaysia Chat, so there's really no need for me budge in there!!

[dreamhunter]

But the theory about Persian and Gemeron/Cimmerians/Kimmeroi in Kedah as you put forth could be true! The name of the first Kedah ruler who converted to Islam, Phra Ong Merong Mahawangsa, could relate to Cimmerians/Gemeron. The part 'Merong' of the name seems to rhyme with 'Gemeron' and eventually 'Cimmerian'!! Hahaha! I don't know, I think you are more knowledgeable than me on this matter.

But old folks in Kedah say that the Kedah royal lineage also originated from Alexander the Great (Iskandar Zulkarnain) who was Macedonian and not Persian! I was told that the Kedah Annals (Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa) also listed the names of Socrates and Macedonia but these names are respectively Malayanized to 'Artalas" and 'Makadunya'!! Is it true? Sounds far-fetched to me though! You probably know more about this!!

Some legends about Kedah royal family sound even more bizarre! Like the one that says the Kedah royal line started from buluh betung!! I've heard so much about buluh betung but I really don't know what it actually is except that it is a kind of mythical plant, sort of having magic power. But it certainly sounds like cerita dongeng to me to say that somebody appeared out of a plant!! Perhaps, the royal family once deliberately created these legends to produce this effect of awsomess, magical , superhuman or mythical powers of the royal family among the rakyat in order to get complete and unquestioned loyalty from the rakyat.

From what I've read n 'guessnalysed', 'Merong' would've actually been the Malayified version of 'Phra Ong', a title presumably used by Khmer kings of around that time, the Khmer Chenla-Funan empire being the regional power in SEA before the rise of Srivijaya in 685 AD.

There is still, I have read, an area in Iran called Ghumran/Gumarun until this day.

The title 'Phra' was an alternative of 'Pya', a title the Khmer kings adapted from 'Pyu', the name of a supposedly v highly cultured ancient people, now extinct, from northern Myanmar, whose southern branch is said to have morphed into the Cham people of Champa kingdom. Which might suggest to some folks that, since the Chams r still considered by many as a Malay people, the Pyus would also have been an ancient Malay people.

So, don't be surprised if later academic research comes up indicating that Merong (Phra Ong) Mahawangasa was actually a Khmer king of Chenla-Funan who invaded Langkasuka n forced it to submit to Khmer overlordship. I'll come back with more on this later.

As for our friend Iskandar, the only children surviving from his bloodline were from princess Rukhsana (Roxanne) of Sogdiana (today in Afghanistan) whom he married in a sort of dynastic alliance. Another one, or two, that Iskandar had by his Persian mistress Varshina (Barsine) was murdered as part of a power struggle after his death.

So any Iskandar-descendant wannabe would need to prove his ancestry from the Iskandar-Rukhsana line. Not just any "Raja Suran on white bull riding out of the sea landing on Bukit Siguntang" story.

But then, there WAS a sudden large exodus of princes n kshatriyas from the Hind to the SEA region during the rise of the Gupta empire (320 - 550 AD), so that's not totally impossible either.

As for Macedonia, the Greeks/Arabs/Persians would have called it Makheduniya or something similar, from which the Malay adaptation would have been made.

As for the 'buluh betung' legend, go on, ya cant take that seriously then can ya? Even the story teller would be telling it with a suppressed smile on his face.

Anyway, there's a good old B&W Malay movie titled 'Anak Buluh Betung' telling a version of that legend, starring Ahmad Mahmud, Aziz Jaafar, Saadiah n S. Roseley, if I recall correctly. It's good. Get it if you can.

S. Roseley was the buluh betung prince who when he grew up rose against his foster-father king (Ahmad Mahmud) n grabbed the throne.

[AwangPembela]

This thread seems to be getting more n more interesting by the day.

Well, as long as we all have fun with it. Cos that's what the thread starter wants, right?

[AwangPembela]

Finally, in 1909, the Anglo-Siamese Treaty was signed by London and Bangkok to settle the issue once and for all. In this Treaty, Siam handed to Britain the Malay states of Kedah, Perlis, Kelantan and Terengganu but retained Kedah's Setul district, Pattani and Singgora (Songkhla). Kedah itself was mutilated in this Treaty: Setul was given to Thailand and renamed Satun, Perlis made an independent state within Malaya although Kubang Pasu was reverted to Kedah after a 68-year hiatus since 1909. Pulau Pinang and Province Wellesley, of course, were forever lost from Kedah and became a Straits Settlement of Britain.

Let's just say, the Brits finally made good, n helped to prevent the entire former Langkasuka from falling into Siamese hands.

Otherwise, TDM, Pak Lah, n Anwar Ibrahim would today have been nothing more than poor, destitute, desperate Malay, or should that be Thai Muslim, politicians risking their lives daily fighting for Langkasuka Merdeka.

[dreamhunter]

Some new info. Looks like it's from official documents on Malaysian royalty.

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Malaysia/kedah.htm

The Royal House of Kedah is of great antiquity, originating in the Hindu age, and said to have been founded by a Prince from Sri Lanka. Eight generations of the family ruled over the state before the conversion to Islam in 1136.

more:

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Malaysia/kedah2.htm

Sri Paduka Maharaja Durbaraja I, Raja of Langkasuka Kedah. Founder of the kingdom of Langkasuka. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharajadiraja Putra, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharajadiraja Putra, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, two sons:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Mahadeva, Raja of Kedah - see below.
2) Maha Sura.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Mahadeva, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Karna di-Raja, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Karna di-Raja, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Karma, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Karma, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Deva II, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Deva II, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Dharmaraja, Raja of Kedah - see below.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Dharmaraja I, Raja of Kedah. He had issue, two sons:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Mahajiva, Raja of Kedah - see below.
2) Maha Karma.

Sri Paduka Maharaja Mahajiva, Raja of Kedah. Styled Phaya Ong Maha Podisat by the Siamese. He had issue, a son:
1) Sri Paduka Maharaja Durbaraja II, who became as Sultan Mudzaffar Shah, Sultan of Kedah - see below.

1136 - 1179 Paduka Sri Sultan Muzaffar Shah I, Sultan of Kedah. Styled Phra Ong Mahawangsa by the Siamese. Styled Sri Paduka Maharaja Durbar Raja II before his accession. The first ruler of Kedah to embrace Islam. He d. 27th July 1179, having had issue, three sons:

1) Paduka Sri Sultan Mu'azzam Shah ibni al-Marhum Sultan Mudzaffar Shah, Sultan of Kedah - see below.
2) Tunku Muhammad Shah ibni al-Marhum Sultan Mudzaffar Shah, Raja Muda.
3) Tunku Sulaiman Shah ibni al-Marhum Sultan Mudzaffar Shah, Tunku Laksamana. Governor of Langkapuri.

In all the above, the term 'issue' means 'offspring' (i.e. children).

What this means is that the current 'edition' of the Kedah kingdom was first founded by a prince from Sri Lanka who became the first founder of Kedah/Langkasuka with the title of Sri Paduka Maharaja Durbaraja I, Raja Langkasuka Kedah.

If we make a rough average estimate that every king was aged 30 when he had his first son n became king, then that means that our Sri Lankan prince, Maharaja Durbaraja I, came to Kedah about 240 years before Paduka Sri Sultan Muzaffar Shah I, Sultan of Kedah, called Phra Ong Mahawangsa by the Siamese, also titled Sri Paduka Maharaja Durbar Raja II, before his accession, the first ruler of Kedah to embrace Islam.

[Esfandiari]

Let's just say, the Brits finally made good, n helped to prevent the entire former Langkasuka from falling into Siamese hands.

Otherwise, TDM, Pak Lah, n Anwar Ibrahim would today have been nothing more than poor, destitute, desperate Malay, or should that be Thai Muslim, politicians risking their lives daily fighting for Langkasuka Merdeka.

True! Looking at the positive side, the Brits did protect us not only from Siamese encroachment but also from Dutch, Spanish, French and American encroachments. Otherwise, we most probably could have been part of the Dutch East Indies, and today a 34th or 35th province of Indonesia!! Hahaha! I think if that had been the case, it would have been worse for Indonesians than for us! If we were a province of Indonesia, where would those millions poor hapless illegal Indonesians go to in search of jobs as they are now doing? Hahahah!!