The term CINA (TJINA) in Indon-speak, Not offensive they say, but history shows otherwise Options

[Majapahitans]

*sedang membayangkan apa yg akan terjadi jika mas Purnomor ketemu sama si chutzpah ini*

Hahahaha

Hehehe... seru juga tuh... saya mah jelas dukung Purnomor

[chutzpah]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_o...ese_Indonesians

Cabinet Presidium Circular SE-06/Pres-Kab/6/1967 on Changing the Term China and Chinese, requiring the usage of the term "Cina" (considered a derogatory term by many Chinese Indonesians instead of "Tionghoa" or "Tiongkok" (used by ethnic Chinese themselves).

Source:
http://www.abbreviation.com.au/abbreviatio...r-of-semantics/

WHEN the Indonesian-language service of Radio Australia broadcast the news that Indonesia and China had decided to resume diplomatic relations from today after a 23-year break, newsreaders referred to China as the RRC, an abbreviation of Republik Rakyat Cina , or People's Republic of China.

When the Indonesian service of Japan's NHK broadcasting network carried the same news, it referred instead to the RRT, an abbreviation of Republik Rakyat Tiongkok. The meaning is the same but the spelling of China is different, and thereby hangs a tale that deserves closer attention.

Radio Australia, following recommendations of the Indonesian Government, uses the word "Cina" (pronounced "cheena") to refer both to China as a country and to Chinese as people. Australian diplomats are supposed to do the same when speaking Indonesian.

The Japanese broadcasting network refuses to do so. It feels the word"Cina" is pejorative, derogatory and racist, having been introduced by Indonesia's military-led Government as a deliberate put-down during a wave of anti-Chinese hysteria following the abortive left-wing coup attempt in 1965.

Source: http://livinginindonesia.info/item/chinese-indonesians/

Chinese-Indonesians have adopted the term Tionghoa to identify themselves. The term ‘Cina' is deemed to be derogatory today due to its unfortunate racist usage in the past.

Source: http://indo982.tripod.com/n0898/n0898_58.html

President Bacharuddin Habibie's landmark speech at the weekend may have opened the way for a new era in traditionally fragile Sino-Indonesian relations, diplomats and analysts said yesterday.

His use of the old Indonesian word Tionghoa for ethnic Chinese instead of the derogatory Cina in an olive branch to riot victims cuts to the heart of a long-standing dispute.

The words officially changed in 1967 shortly after ex-president Suharto's rise to power as part of a package of measures outlawing Chinese language and culture - many of which remain today.

"We have known for a long time that the ethnic Chinese hate to be called Cina," Chinese Embassy counsellor Duan Zengoi said. "We have raised the issue many times but both sides have failed to agree."

Emotions ran so high between Beijing and Jakarta that they almost derailed normalisation talks in 1990.

The word row meant that normalisation documents were signed only in English, with disagreements surfacing over both the Chinese and Indonesian versions.

Good try Majapa$hit, but if the term is acceptable why did the Japanese Government refuse to use it, why did the Chinese government was upset by it? And why did it even receive such media attention as provided above? Double standard seems to be the norm among you and your ilks, but then again I have proven time and again credibilty and integrity are two very alien terms among you lot.

This post has been edited by chutzpah: May 10 2011, 02:14 AM

[chutzpah]

There is only one reason why some women get so nasty, vindictive, and unsociable, their hormones need rebalancing. She,T, should see a GP as she is getting worse by the day.

I concur, there is something terribly wrong with Tangawizi. I can feel her frothing at the mouth as she typed her often obscene and full of expletives responses. She is not a well woman at all.

So far she is unable to come up with any proof after accusing me for:

In most of your postings in Msia and Indo chats, you persistently belittle all Malays and Indonesians in your posts on islam and extrapolate the ideologies of fundamentalists onto the mass of muslims.

Care to substantiate your claim? and she still can't, what tattered reputation she has left must have gone to the dogs by now not that she cares, for she is also of loose moral

[rasibiduk]

My ethnic Chinese friend always used the Cina word, even sometimes, Cinere, a very slangy term for Chinese. Tionghoa while sounds correct and all, seems very stiff and too formal, and I think we've very much moved on with all these previous socio-political baggages that is attached to the word Cina and are very comfortable with our own skin- as much as we call other people Jawa, Batak, Padang etc. And trust me, these name can meant very negative too, depends on the connotation and intonation, just like the word Cina.

[chutzpah]

My ethnic Chinese friend always used the Cina word, even sometimes, Cinere, a very slangy term for Chinese. Tionghoa while sounds correct and all, seems very stiff and too formal, and I think we've very much moved on with all these previous socio-political baggages that is attached to the word Cina and are very comfortable with our own skin- as much as we call other people Jawa, Batak, Padang etc. And trust me, these name can meant very negative too, depends on the connotation and intonation, just like the word Cina.

Thank you for being civil and not abusive and rude like Tanga, Maja and DEL.

I understand where you are coming from. And it is also true, I did say that among the post Soeharto generations, this term is accepted because they have been conditioned to accept it during Soeharto reign. Something that is initially offensive can become accepted through forced coersion and this applies to the term cina. still it doesn't mean it is not offensive.

Personally I don't care whether it is used or not. My aim is to expose the double standards and hypocrisy of those who are hell bent on forcing others not to use one term which initially has no negative meaning such as INDON and yet still persist to argue that CINA is never offensive. the word INDON is never considered offensive in both Singapore and Malaysia. Much like the term BUMI which is short for bumiputera. Some Indons are just too sentive I guess.

[KaskusPertamax]

Lol.

Ini masih perlu ditanya apa?

Cina dari jaman bahala emang kata kasar...

Makanya sekarang hampir semua buku cetak tulisnya Tionghoa...

[DEL]

To all, chutzpah is an ignorant hater who is probably gonna ignore all.


chutzpah, you are a real douche.

I never said Cina isnt offensive. you always turn things around do you, to your liking. read my posts and quote me if i ever said it isnt offensive.
During my time in Indonesia i still wasnt aware of the term Cina until the last month. I always say china to them, which i pronounced as Cina, because i tried to get that Indonesian accent. I am totally aware of the history of Indonesia and was aware of tiongkok, but i know China as China, so it was easier to say. I talked to a lot of Chinese and said it to them, but only till till the last month a Chinese Indonesian told me that. He also told me he really didnt care about the term. But after i knew this, i was more careful with it. Even tho most Chinese Indonesians see i am a ''bule'' and dont mind if i use it, i still try to feel what i should use. Be respectful. The thing is, China is growing and booming today. More Indonesians watch English news and there they use China. Young Chinese Indonesians look at it and think why they should use a term that doesnt sound like China. So for them, it becomes more acceptable. Thats all i said.

Cina is as offensive as Indon is in Indonesia.
Some people get offended, some dont. Goes for both terms.
So you are very hypocrite to be defending one and to be against one.

Btw, about malaysia and Singapore:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/02...-headlines.html

RI embassy protests use of ‘Indon’ in Malaysian headlines
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Thu, 02/03/2011 11:51 AM | National A | A | A |
The Indonesian Embassy in Kuala Lumpur has protested the recent publication in the Malaysian media of the term “Indon” in a news headline, a word often used by Malaysians to describe Indonesians, and regarded by many as derogatory.
Embassy spokesman Suryana Sastradiredja said Malaysia’s Berita Harian had published a story titled “Indon’s Dirty Tactics” on the appointment of Indonesia as the host for the upcoming Sea Games.
The story featured an interview with Malaysia Olympiad Assembly (MOM) vice president W. Y. Chin, who said Indonesia had selected sporting events that would benefit its athletes.
“We’re disappointed and protest against the use of the term ‘Indon’ because the two heads of state have already agreed against using this term, including in the mass media,” Suryana said Wednesday, as quoted by Antara.
“We want no more writing of this kind, and a firm action taken against the writer.”
Suryana said Berita Harian had often used the term “Indon” in its articles citing Indonesia.
The embassy plans to send an official letter of complaint to the paper, questioning why it frequently used the term.

an article from a Malaysian newspaper

KUCHING: Acting consul general of the Consulate General of Indonesia here, Rubaya Talib, is appealing to Malaysians not to call Indonesians "Indons" but Indonesians.

"Please, call us 'Indonesians' and not 'Indons'", he said, adding that 'Indons' did not have any meaning at all.

"It seems very common for Malaysians, including those in Sarawak, to call Indonesians 'Indons' whereas even among Indonesians the word is not familiar at all, more so among us back in our country," Rubaya said.

"Those working here may have to bear with it but, generally, they are not happy with the use of 'Indons' to describe them," he told reporters at the breaking of fast dinner with the local media on Friday.

He said, in fact, many Indonesians, especially intellectuals back home, were also complaining and not happy with the word 'Indon' or 'Indons' because it was not right, therefore, a degradation to Indonesian dignity.

He also wished Malaysians would understand that not all Indonesians were bad people simply because a few were found to have committed crimes.

topic in malaysian forum discussing indon, http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...=indon&st=0

Hey, it is an Indonesian forum with Indonesian posters and readers. It might not be offensive in Malaysia and Singapore (as i admitted before), but Cina aint offensive in other countries either.

You seem to listen to our new poster, rasibiduk, but still you ignore what he says

My ethnic Chinese friend always used the Cina word, even sometimes, Cinere, a very slangy term for Chinese. Tionghoa while sounds correct and all, seems very stiff and too formal, and I think we've very much moved on with all these previous socio-political baggages that is attached to the word Cina and are very comfortable with our own skin- as much as we call other people Jawa, Batak, Padang etc. And trust me, these name can meant very negative too, depends on the connotation and intonation, just like the word Cina.

Chutzpah, you cant debate and you are just a hater. I just advise you to respect all humans and even the ones you dont like. For some Indonesians Indon is offensive, especially when used in a disrespectful way like you do. You cant fight racism, while disrespecting another nation.


Think about these words. I dont think you can counter this, because you are an ignorant hater. done. You can be disrespectful to us, whatever. But what have ALL Indonesians done to you? but you are probably gonna be ignorant again and read all over this, or dont reply, because you cant counter

It is a FACT that for a lot of Indonesians indon is a derogatory term. Instead of defending you can use it and that its okay outside Indonesia (which is not as you can see in the article), just dont use it, because you will be disrespectful to the people it does offend. For someone that ''fights'against discrimination, you are awfully disrespectful. I bet that if Chinese did something bad, you will be disrespectful to them too. All will see that if you ignore this, you are just a hater, a troll, that turns around words of the one that oppose him, lie about it and use it as a point in another conversation. You are a low creature that incites hate.

This post has been edited by DEL: May 10 2011, 08:27 AM

[JoeRagan]

I’ve got the feeling that you guys put up with this troll thus far is only for the sake of entertainment purposes.
Someone wrote earlier not to feed the troll coz he is just looking for attention so that he can profit in some ways like more goggle hits to resuscitate his dying blog or just simply want to be a pain in ur butts just because he can.
And according to yours truly the words Cina, Bule or even Indon cut both ways they can either be a slur or not it’s all depending on context and intonation exactly just like kang Rasi said.

[tangawizi]

^ Oh u mean the octogenarian Ellexo? Yes, his dying blog indeed... that's why nobody has even bothered to flag it to Google that his KNOL site breaches their terms of condition on objectionable material.

In Singapore, many of us chinese have an aversion to be labelled "Cheena". We don't ever spell it like you do "Cina". But Cheena is a perjorative term whose origin can explained as follows:

CHEENA
A pejorative term used to describe a 'mainlander', a Chinese national, a minor 'foreign talent' with the implied attributes of opportunism, rudeness and boorishness. Possibly originally derived from Peranakan (see Cheena Gherk, following), it is now popularly used to label a new generation of Chinese emigrants who have arrived in Singapore to seek their fortunes.
See also: CHEENA GHERK SINKEK

CHEENA GHERK
A pejorative term used by Peranakans to suggest something is low class. Probably from "China". "Cheena Beng" is an Ah Beng who is also "suah koo". Nowadays, "obiang" is the preferred epithet.
See also: Obiang

CHEENAPIANG/CHEENAPOK (Contributed by Crab)
A derogatory term used by Singaporeans who are more well-versed and comfortable in English to describe (insult) those who are more well versed in Chinese and who cannot speak English properly.
1. “Wah lau! He's super cheenapiang, man. Hear the way he speaks English!”
2. “Ah Lians and Ah Bengs are all cheenapoks!”
See also: Cheena Cheena Gherk

I just think that the term INDON implies the same sense of inferiority, low class, obiang, suah koo, fresh-of-the-boat connotation as CHEENA.

So, Chutzpah, if you don't like the term Cina/Cheena used on you, then do realise that others don't like their Indon too, and give 'em a break, will ya?

No offence, you are more educated than Ellexo. You cannot be as unsubtle as an over 80 year old buffalo struggling to be a muslim scholar at his late stage in life.

This post has been edited by tangawizi: May 10 2011, 01:27 PM

[chutzpah]

In Singapore, many of us chinese have an aversion to be labelled "Cheena". We don't ever spell it like you do "Cina". But Cheena is a perjorative term whose origin can explained as follows:

I just think that the term INDON implies the same sense of inferiority, low class, obiang, suah koo, fresh-of-the-boat connotation as CHEENA.

Obviously your racist Muslim apostate sidekick disagrees with you:

I always tought the word "Cina" is not offensive..., but if they want to be called "Tionghoa" or "Tiongkok", be my guest... but that a whole lots of letters... naah..
The way Metro TV call China as Chay-na (with english spelling) is totally wrong in Indonesian language's rule. Let just call them Cina, it's been done for centuries with no negative connotation applied...

The term INDON is only offensive because 'some' Indons make it offensive by being overly sensitive with a huge chip on their shoulder no doubt due to their own insecurities and inferiority complex. I don't know why they should feel that way just because IND exports a large number of domestic workers and labourers. Not all Indons feel the same. And I don't have to justify why I will continue to use the term Indon. As for the word CINA, I don't really care, I've made my point:

Personally I don't care whether it is used or not. My aim is to expose the double standards and hypocrisy of those who are hell bent on forcing others not to use one term which initially has no negative meaning such as INDON and yet still persist to argue that CINA is never offensive. the word INDON is never considered offensive in both Singapore and Malaysia. Much like the term BUMI which is short for bumiputera. Some Indons are just too sentive I guess.

[222]

I think the term "Cina" (spelled as "Cee-na") can be an ethnic slur toward Chinese people for those who are in Indonesia, Malaysia, just like the word "ch!nks" in English.

Also the Japanese have "Shiina" (支那), and the Thais, Laotians have "Jek" to insult the Chinese people...

This post has been edited by 222: May 13 2011, 01:24 AM

[chutzpah]

I think the term "Cina" (spelled as "Cee-na") can be an ethnic slur toward Chinese people for those who are in Indonesia, Malaysia, just like the word "ch!nks" in English.

Also the Japanese have "Shiina" (支那), and the Thais, Laotians have "Jek" to insult the Chinese people...

Thank you for your input and civility though the same can't be said about some of the Indons here.

From the following link by elleXO on the word INDON:

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...mp;qpid=4760140

Merriam-Webster Dictionary: Indon abbr
Definition of INDON
Indonesia; Indonesian
-------------
Abbreviations & Acronyms
Indon.
Indonesia
Indonesian
The American Heritage® Abbreviations Dictionary, Third Edition
----------------------
Web definitions
Indon is a short term for Indonesia and Indonesian, similar to Brit for Briton or British, that was used widely in Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei and The Philippines to refer Indonesia or Indonesian for short.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indon
-----------------
No where has it been indicated that using the word "Indon" is derogatory or insulting. On the other hand this is what I could find on "Indo"
------------------
Dictionary
Search Results
Indo-
combining form /ˈindō/ 
(used commonly in linguistic and ethnological terms) Indian; Indian and …
- Indo-Iranian
"Relating to India"

Web definitions
INDO stands for Intermediate Neglect of Differential Overlap. It is a semi-empirical quantum chemistry method that is a development of the complete neglect of differential overlap (CNDO/2) method introduced by John Pople. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INDO
"Indo or Indo-European or Eurasian people is a term used to describe people of mixed European and native Indonesian and/or Chinese Indonesian ancestry, in particular, people of Dutch and native Indonesian ancestry, and as a result are primarily found in The Netherlands and Indonesia, but also in ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo_(Eurasian)
indo - Instituto Nacional de Denominaciones de Origen, the Spanish government body, which is responsible for, amongst other things, the classification of (new) geographical regions of wine (Denominación de Origen or DO). Back to top
www.decanterwines.co.uk/page/spanishWineGlossary/
indo - + meth(yl) + ac(etic acid) + -in.
www.wordnik.com/words/indomethacin
Indo is slang for cannabis.
vets.com/questionmanager/encyclopaedia/ency1/PA.HTM
------------------
Indo-
pref.
1. India; East Indies: Indochina.
2. Indo-European: Indo-Hittite.
[Greek, from Indos, the Indus River; see indigo.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
-----------------
Indo- definition
Indo- (in′dō)
India or the East Indies
India and
Indo-European: Indo-Hittite
Origin: Gr < Indos: see India
Indo-
prefix
India; East Indies: Indochina.
Indo-European: Indo-Hittite.
Origin: Greek, from Indos, the Indus River; see indigo .
---------------------
Indo-
Indo- combines with nationality adjectives to form adjectives which describe something as connected with both India and another country. prefix
...Indo-Pakistani talks.
English Collins Dictionary - English Definition & Thesaurus
--------------
Again, it is often used as a prefix. There is no suggestion that it is derogatory or a preferred acronym for Indonesians anywhere. Hence as far as I can see, both acronyms are equally legitimate for common use with no insinuations implied. As I said, I am not taking sides on this issue, but I believe it is simply a misunderstanding on the use of words internationally and the colloquial interpretation of the word. It is not an issue of principle but of diction.[/i]

[DEL]

chutzpah, you are hopeless. its sad to see how you are trying to justify your behavior.

[elleX0]

chutzpah, you are hopeless. its sad to see how you are trying to justify your behavior.

DEL why are you STALKING CHUTZPAH? I thought you said that you believed in Christian principles? Is this part of a game?

[DEL]

Stalking? thats a very weird accusation. Especially for a forum where people come to talk. The ones who are playing a game are you two.

chutzpah claims he is against discrimination and is fighting for small minorities, but he doesnt show respect and use terms that are derogatory.
I dont understand why he uses indon, while he clearly knows that it offend people. He says its to proof a point, but after it he still uses it and doesnt care about the other derogatory terms either. The only point he proved is that he is a disrespectful douchebag who isnt gonna achieve anything with the way how he plays it.

[JoeRagan]

DEL why are you STALKING CHUTZPAH?

The whining of the troll bully now playing as victim is a rather pathetic scene,
talk about karmic backlash. LOL

[elleX0]

Stalking? thats a very weird accusation. Especially for a forum where people come to talk. The ones who are playing a game are you two.

chutzpah claims he is against discrimination and is fighting for small minorities, but he doesnt show respect and use terms that are derogatory.
I dont understand why he uses indon, while he clearly knows that it offend people. He says its to proof a point, but after it he still uses it and doesnt care about the other derogatory terms either. The only point he proved is that he is a disrespectful douchebag who isnt gonna achieve anything with the way how he plays it.

Ahhh! Del, you must be the towering example of showing respect? When was the last time you looked into the mirror? Do you respect someone who has a different view from your view? Is that called respect?

[chutzpah]

Ahhh! Del, you must be the towering example of showing respect? When was the last time you looked into the mirror? Do you respect someone who has a different view from your view? Is that called respect?

Or a Ducth Indon paragon of virtue....

[elleX0]

Or a Ducth Indon paragon of virtue....

DEL has a lot to learn. But he is only a young man enjoying the freedom of speech in Holland. I wonder if he listens to some of Geert Wilders speeches?

[tangawizi]

ok guys, can we get over this tit-for-tat once and for all?

we know we hate each other's messages, but we don't have to hate the person.

let's just get on with civil conversations without insults, can we?

CAN WE?

This post has been edited by tangawizi: May 14 2011, 05:02 PM