Why both Japanese and Korean nationalists lust after Manchuria Options

[zern]

Manchuria did belong to Korea in history.

So it is pretty legitimate for korean historians to claim it.


Even if we start a war and eventually get it back, you shouldn`t mind
because it has been ours for a long time and nonetheless you are not
related to Manchu.

ever heard of 滿漢一家( means han and manchu are one family)﹖quoted by the manchu emperor LOL this must make your blood boil a lot LMAO

[zern]

over the last hundreds years,manchu have been too adpated into the Chinese society and culture ( adpoted willingly) which make them no difference from Chinese(han) they are totally different from tibetan, uugyer
manchu in contrast to other ethnic minorties they have the closest life style, culture with han chinese( because they adpated during Qing)
so we hardly consider manchu as minority such as tibetan and other ethnic minorites
i think the only ethnic group that does not consider as outsiders are the manchus because they willingly to adopt chinese culture learn chinese language etc unlike the mongols,.ugyer,tibetans

This post has been edited by zern: Jun 12 2009, 03:00 AM

[NancyPelosi]

Chinese claims are based on Manchu ruling China during Qing dynasty.

Before, they have NEVER had anything to do with Manchuria.


Korean claims are more justified than chinese.
But you still need to post some quotes here to prove how "serious" these Korean claims are.

More justified?

If you're basing this on land, then the Han Chinese have had way more extent into Manchuria in past dynasties than the tiny amount Goguryeo had even at its furthest extent.







The ancestral thing makes even less sense. It's like a modern-day blonde Hungarian saying they have claims and affinity to the mongoloids of Central Asia.

[Eidolon]

Chinese claims are based on Manchu ruling China during Qing dynasty.

Before, they have NEVER had anything to do with Manchuria.

Korean claims are more justified than chinese.

You don't understand how these things work. Recent claims trump ancient claims. Sure, everybody can claim that they came from Africa and therefore Africa belongs to them, but that doesn't work does it? Leaving a land for thousands of years = you no longer have strong claims to it. Why do you think Israel and Palestine are fighting a war and the issue is so controversial? Because the Jews left Israel for thousands years - other people moved into their land and now have a legitimate claim to it. That's why. Europeans could claim that their forefathers, the Indo-Europeans, ruled most of Central Asia thousands of years ago - but that doesn't give them right to the Central Asian states today. The same is true of Korea and Manchuria - your people might've held that land long ago, but it's been a thousand years since then. One would think that if you really cared about it, you would've made some progress in the last thousand years to reclaim Manchuria - yet you didn't, so why are you asking for it now?

So no, Korea's claims are not more justified. Your claim is strictly based on ancient history, and if we were to abide by that logic, then all the nations of the world would have to roll back their territory to the way they were a thousand years ago - yeah, that's really practical, guys. Why don't you start by convincing your American allies to give back North America to the Native Americans? Do that and we'll talk.

This post has been edited by Eidolon: Jun 12 2009, 03:01 AM

[gaogouliWIN7]

Look, Manchu conquered Han Chinese it would be more legitimate if Manchu claimed Tang, Ming, Sui etc.

But the other way round, the conquered ones claiming Manchu history is pure funny.


Sounds as if American natives are claiming European history now.

[gaogouliWIN7]

So no, Korea's claims are not more justified. Your claim is strictly based on ancient history, and if we were to abide by that logic, then all the nations of the world would have to roll back their territory to the way they were a thousand years ago - yeah, that's really practical, guys. Why don't you start by convincing your American allies to give back North America to the Native Americans? Do that and we'll talk.

See, you are no different from white supremacists.

[NancyPelosi]

Look, Manchu conquered Han Chinese it would be more legitimate if Manchu claimed Tang, Ming, Sui etc.

But the other way round, the conquered ones claiming Manchu history is pure funny.


Sounds as if American natives are claiming European history now.

You really have no idea how conquered territories work do you?

In WWII, Germany conquered parts of the Soviet Union but then the Soviets came back and eventually ended up with half of Germany.

Same way Manchus defeated the Han rule and took its land, then Han defeated the Manchu rule and took its land.

Native Americans never took America back and Americans are not assimilated into the native cultures the way the Manchus are with the Han today. Your comparison is simply moronic.

Either way, the Han Chinese have extended into portions of Manchuria in past dynasties, far more than Goguryeo had at its greatest extent (Clear examples in my previous post). Saying Korea has more claim to Manchuria is just bogus.

[gaogouli3]

You really have no idea how conquered territories work do you?

In WWII, Germany conquered parts of the Soviet Union but then the Soviets came back and eventually ended up with half of Germany.

Same way Manchus defeated the Han rule and took its land, then Han defeated the Manchu rule and took its land.

Native Americans never took America back and Americans are not assimilated into the native cultures the way the Manchus are with the Han today. Your comparison is simply moronic.

Either way, the Han Chinese have extended into portions of Manchuria in past dynasties, far more than Goguryeo had at its greatest extent (Clear examples in my previous post). Saying Korea has more claim to Manchuria is just bogus.

If you are basing this on territorial expansion, you should not bring the Han dynasty as a proof.
Its common knowledge that Han dynasty was a pool of loosely related tribes.



Even on this map, you can clearly see GAOGOULI on top right.

This post has been edited by gaogouli3: Jun 12 2009, 03:28 AM

[lite]

Thank you



That skaters did it as a reaction to Chinas theft of Goguryeo. They were also bashed when they went back to Korea.

And dont confuse Baekdu Mountain with Manchuria. Big difference. Baekdu mountain is mostly Korea even today. 60% of it is still controlled by North Korea. China obtained the remaining 40% in 1962 after Mao helped Kim Jong Ils father in the in the Korean war.

no. china gave part of changbai mountain to north korea as a symbolic gesture of friendship. which i think is totally not worth it.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

what i dont get is why you would split a mountain......of all the places to draw a line....

[NancyPelosi]

If you are basing this on territorial expansion, you should not bring the Han dynasty as a proof.
Its common knowledge that Han dynasty was a pool of loosely related tribes.



Even on this map, you can clearly see GAOGOULI on top right.

How stupid are you?

The Han Dynasty is what the Han ethnicity today is derived from. That is even more specific than the 50+ ethnicities that make up Chinese people.

If you don't even think Han Dynasty equates to Han people, then how could you possibly think Goguryeo equates to Korean people?

[gaogouli3]

How stupid are you?

The Han Dynasty is what the Han ethnicity today is derived from. That is even more specific than the 50+ ethnicities that make up Chinese people.

If you don't even think Han Dynasty equates to Han people, then how could you possibly think Goguryeo equates to Korean people?

Learn to read. Of course Han dynasty equates to Han people but not to Manchu people.



thats what I said, stupid.

[NancyPelosi]

Learn to read. Of course Han dynasty equates to Han people but not to Manchu people.



thats what I said, stupid.

No you idiot. This is what you said:

If you are basing this on territorial expansion, you should not bring the Han dynasty as a proof.
Its common knowledge that Han dynasty was a pool of loosely related tribes.

The Han Dynasty was a pool of Han People, the people who the Han ethnicity of today are derived from and therefore the Han Dynasty is direct proof if you're basing an argument on territorial expansion.

Manchus today are Chinese people by nationality and almost completely identical to Han people culturally. Could it be any more obvious why the country of China today has every claim in the world to Manchuria?

[MotorRifle]

Doesnt matter, since Chinese in current occupier of Manchuria, so of cause China get every rights to claim Manchuria

Dont make me you korean joker, your so-called gajuli is some kingdom get conqured thousands of years ago, hocw dare you even wank about it?

Following your pathetic logic, OK, since earlier Han dynastry, China has conquered and ruled Korea for 500+ years, so by your logic, we also get the right to claim Korea belong to China as well

Not to mention absolute no manchurian agree you get the right to claim Dongbei, there are already some hate within, and there are already some Manchu movement called Changbai-Mountain-movement among Manchurian in Doingbei, make it clear you jokes get nothing to do with them or Dongbei, go to baidu's Dongbei forums, there are massive anti-korea movement there.

Actually Han Chinese only begin to aware how ridiulus you are because of those informations spreading by those enthinic miniority in Dongbei since usually in China, few cares about the history of those ethnic miniorities.

Judging by the track record of a series funny claim made by Koreans, we get no choice but believe the ethnic minority in Dongbei more than we believe you, they certainly dont get your patented inferiority complex when they talk about their history, which could elminate a big potential source of bias

Its really doesnt matter now to say who get more rights to own Manchu since the world is never a playground for fair-game playing, however, I have pointed it out, even under a fair-game enviorment, it seems to me that you guys are still at the losing end

[gaogouli3]

Doesnt matter, since Chinese in current occupier of Manchuria, so of cause China get every rights to claim Manchuria

Dont make me you korean joker, your so-called gajuli is some kingdom get conqured thousands of years ago, hocw dare you even wank about it?

Following your pathetic logic, OK, since earlier Han dynastry, China has conquered and ruled Korea for 500+ years, so by your logic, we also get the right to claim Korea belong to China as well

Not to mention absolute no manchurian agree you get the right to claim Dongbei, there are already some hate within, and there are already some Manchu movement called Changbai-Mountain-movement among Manchurian in Doingbei, make it clear you jokes get nothing to do with them or Dongbei, go to baidu's Dongbei forums, there are massive anti-korea movement there.

Actually Han Chinese only begin to aware how ridiulus you are because of those informations spreading by those enthinic miniority in Dongbei since usually in China, few cares about the history of those ethnic miniorities.

Judging by the track record of a series funny claim made by Koreans, we get no choice but believe the ethnic minority in Dongbei more than we believe you, they certainly dont get your patented inferiority complex when they talk about their history, which could elminate a big potential source of bias

Its really doesnt matter now to say who get more rights to own Manchu since the world is never a playground for fair-game playing, however, I have pointed it out, even under a fair-game enviorment, it seems to me that you guys are still at the losing end

Considering all the funny chinese claims about Korea
I don`t take you serious at all.


Chinese claiming Manchu history??

LOL

[gaogouli3]

No you idiot. This is what you said:



The Han Dynasty was a pool of Han People, the people who the Han ethnicity of today are derived from and therefore the Han Dynasty is direct proof if you're basing an argument on territorial expansion.

Manchus today are Chinese people by nationality and almost completely identical to Han people culturally. Could it be any more obvious why the country of China today has every claim in the world to Manchuria?

Loser. Look at the map. Where is your huge territorial expansion into Manchuria during Han dynasty???

You look like a inferior complexed fool right now.

[Flowerseed]

Loser. Look at the map. Where is your huge territorial expansion into Manchuria during Han dynasty???

You look like a inferior complexed fool right now.

yep we only territorial expansion into southern Manchuria and northern korea during Han dynasty, so they belong to us.

And we have other dynasties beside Han you know.

[gaogouli3]

yep we only territorial expansion into southern Manchuria and northern korea during Han dynasty, so they belong to us.

And we have other dynasties beside Han you know.

yep, but Koguryeo expansion was larger so it belongs to us.

And your Yuan and Qing dynasties don`t count.

[Flowerseed]

yep, but Koguryeo expansion was larger so it belongs to us.

And your Yuan and Qing dynasties don`t count.

sorry to bust your dream but "Koguryeo" counts even less for you silla boy.