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Spratley Islands, who owns it?
redhotchili
post Jun 26 2004, 07:55 AM
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ok, who does?

there's china, the philippines, and vietnam.

NQSH says that it should be vietnam because they've been claiming it for a hundred years.

the philippines is there because it falls on its territory. (i think we already sent people to live on that island)

the size of the islands is miniscule but it has potential for producing fuel.

so?

EDIT:
says i:
QUOTE
there's also vietnam who sent tourists to the islands.


NQSH:
QUOTE
The Spratlys has never belonged to you guys. We claimed it for over a century until somehow Philippines "discovered" it 30 years ago.


halohalo:
QUOTE
Vietnam doesnt own Spratly Islands either


NQSH:
QUOTE
What crap are you talking about?

Go and do some research on the history of the Spratlys.


halohalo:
QUOTE
Spratly Island are claimed by different Asian nations. China, Taiwan also claim it in its entirety, not juz Vietnam, based on historical reason. Only portions are claimed by Malaysia and the Philippines.


NQSH:
QUOTE
Claiming it is one thing but the actual right to claim it is another. Vietnam claims it due to historical reasons and we were the first people to inhabit it. What's Pi's reason for claiming it?


halohalo:
QUOTE
The third important part of the UNCLOS is Part VI, which justifies claims by Brunei, Malaysia and the Philippines. Justification is based on proximity, not history; hence, China's and Taiwan's historical claims would not likely win arbitrated cases.

Asian Executives Poll:
In a 7 November 1996 poll, 47.6% of Asian business leaders indicated the Philippines had the strongest claim to the Spratly Islands. China accounted for 24.1% of the vote, while Vietnam claimed 13.9% of the vote, Malaysia picked up 9.6%, Taiwan carried 3.6%, and Brunei captured 1.2% of the business leaders' votes.(37)

Supposedly included in Spanish territory by the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas....


This post has been edited by redhotchili: Jun 26 2004, 08:10 AM
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Ek-ek
post Sep 12 2004, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (直隸總督 @ Jun 29 2004, 07:15 AM)
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4511
Says I :
the South China Sea basically consists of 東沙群島 Pratas Islands, 西沙群島 Paracel Islands, 中沙群島 ( i forgot its english name) and 南沙群島 Spartly Islands.
According to ROC's South Sea ( South China Sea) policy and CCP Ministry of Diplomacy, China's sovereignty over the entire South Sea is undebatable. We can trace all the way back to 2nd century b.c. ( Han Dynasty). Chinese already discovered Paracel and Spartly. By 7th century A.D ( Tang dyansty), Chinese had already been living on these two groups of Islands, and Spartly was already a part of Guangdong province. In Yuan dynasty, Paracel was named 千里長沙 Qian Li Chang Sha, Spartly was named 萬里石塘 Wan Li Shi Tang. And by Ming and Qing dynasty, the South China Sea islands were all under the jursidction of Chinese government. ( you may refer to 瓊州府誌 or 萬州誌, published in Ming dynasty).
Besides, there are also historical records both from China and foreign countries. Such as Zheng He's 鄭和航海圖 ( Navigation Map of Zheng He), Qing dynasty's 四海總圖 ( General Map of 4 seas), 皇清各直省分圖 ( Map of Imperial Qing's provinces) and 大清一統天下圖 ( Map of Great Qing Unification). plus foreign sources such as J.Johnson of USA, the appendix map in his book 東方航行者 ( I don't know the english name either). and British Navy's China Sea Pilot. In both sources, they all refer South China Sea as "China Sea". very obvious.
After WW2, According to the Cairo Conference, Japanese returned the islands of South Sea to the government of Republic of China. In 1947, the government drew out a U-type boundaries of South China Sea, which covers from 10930'E to 11750'E and 340'N to 2158'N.
=============================
Major players :
- legit ownders : China ( ROC and PRC )
- illegal occupants/claimants : Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia
- someone who's trying to mess up : U.S.A

China's Claims :
(As stated above.)

Vietnam's Claims :
Vietnam also uses the archaepological "evidences", claiming the entire archipelago. It's been said that in 1815 the emperor of Annam, Gia Long, sent an expedition force and occupied the islands, which they referred as Truong Sa. In 1933, French annexed the Spratly islands, therefore Vietnam inherited the islands from the French. In 1973, Spratly islands were declared to be part of the Phuoc Tuy province. Later then it claimed the entire archipelago as a dictrict of Khanh Hoa province.

Malaysia's Claims :
Malaysia current has control of three islands but it claims the whole chain. Based on Law of the Sea Convention, the Spratlys are a part of its continental shelf, therefore Malaysia should be the rightful owner.

Philippines' Claims :
Philippines claimed the Spratlys with the excuse that in 1956, they sent an expedition and occupied some of the islands. A Manila lawyer, Tomas Clomas, named them Kalayaan, which means freedomland. In 1968, Filipino troops were sent to Kalayaan. Since then informal claims had been put forth by the government. In 1978, Filipino government officially declared the Spratly Islands were part of Palawan province " by virtue of their presence on the continental margin of the archipelago", and claimed that the islands were no man's land and free to be claimed.

USA's Claims:
Anything anti-China is good. In 1976, U.S.A stated that China invaded and captured the Paracel Islands from Vietnam, while Paracel Islands were originally under the jursidiction of China. And Americans also described the event as following " Disputes have been propelled by an aggressive China, eager to meet growing energy demands that outstript its supply capacity. Moreover, China's historical interpretation of its sovereignty rights ignores current international law."

Conclusion/Counter-proofs :
- first, what does it say in Law of Sea Convention? It doesn't not state that any islands on the same continental shelf shall belong to the same country. If by that reason, then Philippines should be long to Malaysia or vice versa. And there's no rights granted in the law that any country can extend its territories over to other countries just because they're on the same continental shelf. Law of Sea Convention also causes many problems such as the territorial waters of countries are overlapped ( conflicting), which is also a cause of the South Sea dispute. Moreover, USA has already violated it by flying spy planes over China's territorial waters, but the USA government apparently has not faced any type of formal charge. Therefore, the Law of Sea Convention proves to be inadequate, it must be revised. Meanwhile, this internation "law" has no real values to be regarded.
- Cuurent status : PRC holds 6 islands, ROC holds Tai Ping Island ( Itu Aba island, the largest island in Spratly), Vietnam illegally occupies 17 islands , philippines 9, malaysia 3.
- According to Cairo Conference and Potsdam, Japan had to return all its illegal posssessions back to China , including Manzhou and Taiwan. The Spratlys at the time was a part of Japanese Taiwan colony. Therefore , of course, Spratly Islands were also returned to China along with Taiwan.
- From USA media, it's been claiming that Malaysia and Philippines' claims are all well-coordinated and defined. While China ( both ROC and PRC) has no clear definition of their claims. But in fact, early in 1946 and 1947, the Chinese government had already drawn out the correct longtitudes and latitudes of our territories. Not even mentioning our sovereignty in previous dynasties.
- It's funny how USA keeps saying "aggressive China", while ROC government in Taiwan also uses almost an exactly the same claims as the PRC. No one ever called it "aggressive Taiwan".

cry2.gif icon_rolleyes.gif Sadly, If historical facts are to be based, China had all the legal rights to claim these island. They have known the islands for thousands of years.


If economic zones were to be based. Philippines had to be included as it it is nearest country to these islands.
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Posts in this topic
- redhotchili   Spratley Islands   Jun 26 2004, 07:55 AM
- - Forumwalker   i go for halohalo's reasoning.. that's a f...   Jun 27 2004, 02:24 AM
- - dalawapo   i think the Philippines Government is too STUPID t...   Jun 27 2004, 05:03 AM
- - Forumwalker   not stupid but lacks the international influence a...   Jun 27 2004, 06:50 AM
- - Ek-ek   QUOTE (Forumwalker @ Jun 27 2004, 04:24 PM)i ...   Jun 27 2004, 10:18 PM
- - Forumwalker   at least the philippines has more right.. hehe   Jun 28 2004, 06:57 AM
- - Byron   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/asia-pacific/3714627.s...   Jun 28 2004, 05:08 PM
- - 直隸總督   http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopi...   Jun 28 2004, 05:15 PM
- - Byron   Vietnam has ancient evidence showing they were on ...   Jun 28 2004, 05:19 PM
- - Nam Quoc Son Ha   The point is Vietnam claimed it for 150 years and ...   Jun 28 2004, 05:19 PM
- - blank book   QUOTE - Cuurent status : PRC holds 6 islands, ROC ...   Jun 28 2004, 05:38 PM
- - Nam Quoc Son Ha   QUOTE (blank book @ Jun 28 2004, 06:38 PM)QUO...   Jun 28 2004, 05:50 PM
- - TopNotch   QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ Jun 28 2004, 06:50 P...   Jun 28 2004, 05:55 PM
- - Byron   fu-king Paracels which is undisputely ours, but wh...   Jun 28 2004, 05:57 PM
- - Nam Quoc Son Ha   That's the sneaky tactics of the shrewd imperi...   Jun 28 2004, 06:00 PM
- - TopNotch   QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ Jun 28 2004, 07:00 P...   Jun 28 2004, 06:03 PM
- - Nam Quoc Son Ha   QUOTE 直隸總督- According ...   Jun 28 2004, 06:09 PM
- - blank book   Lets stay on topic and not turn another seemingly ...   Jun 28 2004, 06:09 PM
- - Byron   I'm just pissed about the Paracels. It's ...   Jun 28 2004, 06:18 PM
- - Nam Quoc Son Ha   QUOTE (Byron @ Jun 28 2004, 07:18 PM)I'm ...   Jun 28 2004, 06:23 PM
- - blank book   I'm not very familiar with the conflict over t...   Jun 28 2004, 06:27 PM
- - Byron   Dammit why did South Vietnam not concentrate her f...   Jun 28 2004, 06:28 PM
- - blank book   Vietnam lost two ships in the battle over the Para...   Jun 28 2004, 06:34 PM
- - Nam Quoc Son Ha   Everytime I think about this just makes my blood b...   Jun 28 2004, 06:36 PM
- - Byron   QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ Jun 28 2004, 07:36 P...   Jun 28 2004, 06:39 PM
- - halohalo   QUOTE Philippines Its Spratly claims have clearly ...   Jun 28 2004, 07:36 PM
- - Forumwalker   yey for halohalo.. the kalayaan islands (8 of them...   Jun 29 2004, 12:59 AM
- - flipcombatmedic   it's really sad that people show how materiali...   Sep 9 2004, 12:17 PM
- - HutFlip   Damn i wish all this spratly issue be resolve soon...   Sep 10 2004, 09:55 AM
- - MING-LOYALIST   QUOTE (Byron @ Jun 28 2004, 07:28 PM)I have a...   Sep 10 2004, 01:09 PM
|- - LallyJane   The way I look at it, China the big bully should t...   Jan 4 2006, 04:50 AM
|- - northwestern_student   QUOTE (MING-LOYALIST @ Sep 10 2004, 01:0...   Jan 5 2006, 12:39 PM
|- - LallyJane   QUOTE (northwestern_student @ Jan 5 2006, 11:...   Jan 5 2006, 05:37 PM
|- - shashoujian   QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 5 2006, 05:37 PM)China...   Jan 5 2006, 06:01 PM
||- - LallyJane   QUOTE (shashoujian @ Jan 5 2006, 05:01 PM)Lal...   Jan 7 2006, 10:44 AM
||- - shashoujian   QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 7 2006, 10:44 AM)Just ...   Jan 7 2006, 12:40 PM
||- - LallyJane   QUOTE (shashoujian @ Jan 7 2006, 11:40 AM)Are...   Jan 7 2006, 01:14 PM
|- - education   How is it we make up baloney. If you consider chin...   Jan 6 2006, 08:31 AM
|- - LallyJane   QUOTE (education @ Jan 6 2006, 07:31 AM)How i...   Jan 7 2006, 01:09 PM
|- - northwestern_student   QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 7 2006, 01:09 PM)I dis...   Jan 7 2006, 01:22 PM
- - Byron   QUOTE After WW2 Paracel islands was occupied by RO...   Sep 10 2004, 09:10 PM
|- - JuliusMariaLourdes   I think the RP owns the Spratley Islands. But it ...   Sep 26 2005, 11:41 AM
|- - education   I just don't see that happening. Yes china is ...   Sep 27 2005, 11:12 AM
||- - TakTAk-Boy   QUOTE (education @ Sep 27 2005, 11:12 AM)I ju...   Sep 27 2005, 11:41 AM
||- - education   Do you have proof of that? I mean is there link yo...   Sep 27 2005, 12:25 PM
|- - Rock a little   QUOTE (JuliusMariaLourdes @ Sep 26 2005, 11:4...   Sep 27 2005, 12:55 PM
- - dalawapo   here is another: byron has a long hair he brush i...   Sep 10 2004, 09:45 PM
- - Ek-ek   QUOTE (直隸總督 @ Jun...   Sep 12 2004, 04:58 PM
- - dalawapo   china is lying! :genius:   Sep 12 2004, 05:02 PM
- - Ek-ek   No, They have a historical accounts written in the...   Sep 12 2004, 05:04 PM
- - dalawapo   so, they can make claims to own the entire philipp...   Sep 12 2004, 05:17 PM
- - Vietpride-USA   QUOTE (redhotchili @ Jun 26 2004, 07:55 AM)ok...   Sep 15 2005, 09:25 PM
|- - Majapahitans   Spratley belongs to ASEAN.....! he..he.. It...   Sep 21 2005, 09:45 AM
- - forrestcat   Yes, i'd prefer a SEA nation than CHINA rulin...   Sep 23 2005, 09:37 PM
|- - filipinoy   QUOTE (forrestcat @ Sep 23 2005, 08:37 PM)Too...   Sep 24 2005, 12:54 AM
|- - JuliusMariaLourdes   QUOTE (filipinoy @ Sep 23 2005, 10:54 PM)QUOT...   Sep 29 2005, 12:27 PM
- - VanDaMan   if big bad china wants to go to war over the sprat...   Sep 23 2005, 10:02 PM
- - kunomchu   heh don't be sad cuz you can't do jack ...   Sep 23 2005, 10:03 PM
- - TakTAk-Boy   with the deadlock thats taking place..no one is ma...   Sep 24 2005, 05:33 AM
- - forrestcat   I think i rather have the United States do policin...   Sep 24 2005, 11:34 AM
|- - filipinoy   QUOTE (forrestcat @ Sep 24 2005, 10:34 AM)Not...   Sep 24 2005, 12:30 PM
- - siambear50   QUOTE Malaysia is actually indirectly threatened b...   Sep 24 2005, 12:34 PM
- - filipinoy   i heard they bought 3 submarines from China 2 yrs ...   Sep 24 2005, 12:43 PM
|- - forrestcat   QUOTE (filipinoy @ Sep 25 2005, 01:43 AM)i he...   Sep 28 2005, 04:32 AM
|- - filipinoy   QUOTE (forrestcat @ Sep 28 2005, 03:32 AM)QUO...   Sep 28 2005, 06:56 PM
- - Forumwalker   let's turn the Badjaos and offshore living tri...   Sep 25 2005, 01:24 AM
- - filipinoy   ^no, Let's send our Terrorists & Rebel Gro...   Sep 25 2005, 07:25 PM
- - filipinoy   ^the UN & the US(US & RP has a defense tre...   Sep 26 2005, 05:58 PM
- - malaccan   Amongts ASEAN countries, I'd say it's a to...   Sep 27 2005, 11:18 AM
- - islander   Old topic but since islands were mostly uninhabit...   Oct 11 2005, 08:32 PM
- - Suijen   ^ It's not the island that is important, it...   Oct 11 2005, 08:42 PM
- - Suzuka00   we should use our oil reserves there   Nov 2 2005, 09:14 PM
|- - Kim Jung Il   China!   Nov 2 2005, 09:15 PM
- - Asian Masturbation   [/QUOTE]Kim Jung Il Posted Today, 09:15 PM Chin...   Nov 2 2005, 09:48 PM
|- - Kim Jung Il   QUOTE (Asian Masturbation @ Nov 2 2005, 09:48...   Nov 2 2005, 09:53 PM
|- - Kim Jung Il   Notice the South China Sea there   Nov 2 2005, 09:56 PM
|- - supernovasp   QUOTE (Kim Jung Il @ Nov 2 2005, 09:56 PM) N...   Nov 2 2005, 09:59 PM
|- - Kim Jung Il   QUOTE (supernovasp @ Nov 2 2005, 09:59 PM)Tha...   Nov 2 2005, 10:16 PM
- - Suijen   PRC claims on the Spratly Islands The PRC bases it...   Nov 2 2005, 10:16 PM
|- - Kim Jung Il   I doubt that any Vietnamese, Taiwanese, Filipino o...   Nov 2 2005, 10:21 PM
|- - LallyJane   According to the international boundary recognized...   Jan 4 2006, 04:54 AM
|- - kermit_criminal   QUOTE (Kim Jung Il @ Nov 2 2005, 10:21 PM)I d...   Jan 4 2006, 06:26 PM
- - oanari   QUOTE (Kim Jung Il @ Nov 2 2005, 09:56 PM) N...   Nov 3 2005, 05:40 AM
- - Suzuka00   The territory rights should be settled.   Nov 5 2005, 01:33 AM
- - Cursah   Exactly how China is the big bully?   Jan 4 2006, 07:44 AM
|- - LallyJane   QUOTE (Cursah @ Jan 4 2006, 06:44 AM)Exactly ...   Jan 4 2006, 12:42 PM
|- - Cursah   QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 5 2006, 01:42 AM)Envad...   Jan 4 2006, 08:14 PM
|- - LallyJane   QUOTE (Cursah @ Jan 4 2006, 07:14 PM)I've...   Jan 5 2006, 10:01 AM
- - education   If China is the big bully then what exactly would ...   Jan 4 2006, 03:55 PM
|- - MrBahaw   QUOTE (education @ Jan 4 2006, 03:55 PM)If Ch...   Jan 4 2006, 04:01 PM
|- - LallyJane   QUOTE (education @ Jan 4 2006, 02:55 PM)If Ch...   Jan 5 2006, 09:59 AM
- - education   Where exactly is this proof that were illegally oc...   Jan 4 2006, 04:05 PM
- - Sirikittong   The Philippines needs a MASSIVE naval restructurin...   Jan 5 2006, 10:47 AM
|- - EJI   QUOTE (Sirikittong @ Jan 5 2006, 10:47 AM)The...   Jan 5 2006, 11:35 AM
- - Sirikittong   or if you want....maybe the Royal Thai Navy could ...   Jan 5 2006, 12:13 PM
- - Sirikittong   RTN Chakri Nareubet RTN Carrier Task Group   Jan 5 2006, 12:29 PM
- - shashoujian   The Thai Aircraft carrier HTMS Chakri Nareubet is ...   Jan 5 2006, 01:32 PM
- - shashoujian   No, Chinese were not the first settlers to the Phi...   Jan 7 2006, 01:30 PM
- - northwestern_student   well...there is no evidence that chinese nor the p...   Jan 7 2006, 01:43 PM
- - shashoujian   That wasn't my question. I was asking if local...   Jan 7 2006, 01:48 PM
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