What Was Vietnam's Strongest Empire? Options

[YManchun]

Background info. and stories are appreciated. And how strong was it?

[blank book]

I don't think empire is the right word.

[Byron]

lol the only countries we conquered were Cambodia and Laos, while yes technically that would make Vietnam an empire, but those countries weren't that power to begin with. LOL

[YManchun]

lol the only countries we conquered were Cambodia and Laos, while yes technically that would make Vietnam an empire, but those countries weren't that power to begin with. LOL

What about parts of china?

[supernovasp]

lol the only countries we conquered were Cambodia and Laos, while yes technically that would make Vietnam an empire, but those countries weren't that power to begin with. LOL

Champa?

Tran (pronounced Jun) dynasty was the strongest military. It did repel Mongolian-Chinese troops (Yuan dynasty) three times in a row. There were so many Vietnamese heroes at that time. Also there were constant wars with the Champa, a country now is Central Vietnam. Unlike Korean with the 3 kingdoms that have similar culture, the Champ is nothing alike Vietnamese. Their religion is Hinduism, later Muslim, and her culture resembles Indian, the people were even darker than Cambodian. Also, there were a lot of tributes from Southeast Asian kingdoms to the Tran emperors.

[Byron]

lol the only countries we conquered were Cambodia and Laos, while yes technically that would make Vietnam an empire, but those countries weren't that power to begin with.  LOL

What about parts of china?

Yeah we took some Chinese land and set up the Ai Nam Quan gate. I can't remember the Vietnamese Emperor who took Chinese land and set up Ai Nam Quan? Can anyone elaborate more on what he did to conquer that land and what he promised to do if he hadn't died early?

[Nam Quoc Son Ha]

This is very hard to say as various Dynasties have proven themselves to be strong.

Here are a few:

Ly Dynasty (1010-1225): The height of Vietnam's military prowess in relation to her neighbours. Thanks to wise and strong Emperors such as Ly Thai To (1010-1028). During his reign, he improved Dai Viet's economy considerably and people were properly fed and clothed.

Ly Thai Tong's reign (1028-1054) saw the peak of Vietnam's military power. He was a military genuis. In 1038, a rebel by the name of Nung Ton Phuc rebelled against Dai Viet and was defeated by Dai Viet. His son, Nung Tri Cao fled into China and prompty defeated the Chinese armies to annex Quang Dong and Quang Tay provinces of China during the Song Dynasty. The Song dynasty tried many times but could not defeat them and regain the land. Nung Tri Cao then proclaimed himself Nhan Hue Emperor and the kingdom Dai Nam. The Song Emperor then asked Dai Viet to help defeat the rebels. However, the Dali army captured Nung Tri Cao first, executed him and presented his head to the Song Emperor. Nung's army then disappeared.

Ly Thanh Tong's reign (1054-1072) was characterised by a wealthy country and a strong military. His reign was famous for military tactics and organisation, of which the Song adopted and implemented on their military machine.

Ly Nhan Tong's reign (1072-1127) saw the invasion of the Song Dynasty, which was soundly defeated by the Vietnamese military legend Ly Thuong Kiet.

The later years and reigns are characterised by Dynastic consolidation and strenghthening of national character, culture and tradition, reinforced by a strong military.

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I'll continue with the feats of the Tran Dynasty later.

[YManchun]

lol the only countries we conquered were Cambodia and Laos, while yes technically that would make Vietnam an empire, but those countries weren't that power to begin with.  LOL

Champa?

Tran (pronounced Jun) dynasty was the strongest military. It did repel Mongolian-Chinese troops (Yuan dynasty) three times in a row. There were so many Vietnamese heroes at that time. Also there were constant wars with the Champa, a country now is Central Vietnam. Unlike Korean with the 3 kingdoms that have similar culture, the Champ is nothing alike Vietnamese. Their religion is Hinduism, later Muslim, and her culture resembles Indian, the people were even darker than Cambodian. Also, there were a lot of tributes from Southeast Asian kingdoms to the Tran emperors.

Awesome. Thanks for the info. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I have another question, I noticed that you referred to korea's three kingdoms. Did vietnam, during Champa's reign, was divided to three kingdoms also?

edit- thanks for everyone else for the info. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

This post has been edited by YManchun: Jun 30 2004, 08:49 PM

[Byron]

What about the time when we took Chinese land and set up the Ai Nam Quan gate to the North?

Can anyone tell me the story of that? With the name of that Emperor and what he promised to do but died early before he could do it?

[Nam Quoc Son Ha]

lol the only countries we conquered were Cambodia and Laos, while yes technically that would make Vietnam an empire, but those countries weren't that power to begin with.  LOL

Champa?

Tran (pronounced Jun) dynasty was the strongest military. It did repel Mongolian-Chinese troops (Yuan dynasty) three times in a row. There were so many Vietnamese heroes at that time. Also there were constant wars with the Champa, a country now is Central Vietnam. Unlike Korean with the 3 kingdoms that have similar culture, the Champ is nothing alike Vietnamese. Their religion is Hinduism, later Muslim, and her culture resembles Indian, the people were even darker than Cambodian. Also, there were a lot of tributes from Southeast Asian kingdoms to the Tran emperors.

Awesome. Thanks for the info. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I have another question, I noticed that you referred to korea's three kingdoms. Did vietnam, during Champa's reign, was divided to three kingdoms also?

edit- thanks for everyone else for the info. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

LOL NO Vietnam has never been divided into two distinct entities. Rather, during the Le Dynasty, the Mac family held the real powers and made the Le Emperors puppets. The Trinh family then defeated the Mac family and controlled the northern part of Vietnam under the guise of helping the Le Emperors. The Nguyen family did not content with this so they asked the Le to give them land south of what is Hue today to establish their own territory.

The rise of the Tay Son brothers defeated the Trinh family and the Nguyen family and unified the whole Vietnam. Nguyen Hue (1 of 3 Tay Son brothers) proclaimed himself Binh Dinh Vuong Nguyen Hue and vowed to restore the Le Dynasty. Emperor Le Chieu Tong suspected that Nguyen Hue was not genuine so he fled to China to ask for help. China used this excuse to invade Vietnam (their intention was to conquer Vietnam) to restore the Le but was terribly defeated by Binh Dinh Vuong Nguyen Hue at Bach Dang Giang. Nguyen Hue then proclaimed himself Emperor Quang Trung.

However, he died early and his army soon lost direction and fell to the descendant of the Nguyen family, Nguyen Anh. Nguyen Anh unified Vietnam and became Emperor Gia Long.

[Byron]

Here's a list of Vietnamese heroes and what they did. There are some people listed who aren't Vietnaemse but they are listed as heroes but as people that affected Vietnamese history.

Heroes from 2879BC-1527 AD

http://www.viettouch.com/whois/

Heroes from 1527-1954 AD

http://www.viettouch.com/whois/vietnam_who_is2.html

[直隸總督]

Ly Thai Tong's reign (1028-1054) saw the peak of Vietnam's military power. He was a military genuis. In 1038, a rebel by the name of Nung Ton Phuc rebelled against Dai Viet and was defeated by Dai Viet. His son, Nung Tri Cao fled into China and prompty defeated the Chinese armies to annex Quang Dong and Quang Tay provinces of China during the Song Dynasty. The Song dynasty tried many times but could not defeat them and regain the land. Nung Tri Cao then proclaimed himself Nhan Hue Emperor and the kingdom Dai Nam. The Song Emperor then asked Dai Viet to help defeat the rebels. However, the Dali army captured Nung Tri Cao first, executed him and presented his head to the Song Emperor. Nung's army then disappeared.

fascinating.

[Clean]

I'd say during the time of Tran Hung Dao. C'mon, during a time where all nations fall to the foot of the mongols, being one of the very few nations left to conquer, Kubilai set out to conquer Vietnam. He failed 3 times miserably. While having superior numbers, the mongol failed to destroy a smaller, less equipted army.

Tran Hung Dao was named the middle-ages most brilliant general or something like that. Don't remember by who, someone reminded me of it a while ago... lol, bad memory...

Either that or under Nguyen Hue, that guy was a pretty good strategist who died too early (mysteriously). His enemies feared him like they feared the plague. He took down the powerful Nguyen and Trinh, plus all the help they got from China, and i think Thailand too.

Possibly under the Ly dynasty (under Ly Thai Tong), but i don't know too much about them, anyone can tell me more?

Peronal opinion. Though not empires, Vietnam didn't really ever set out to create empires, most wars were started through self defence. Even the destruction of the Champa kingdom happened due to their sacking of our capital first, it was only retaliation to quench the anger of the people.

[tqt]

In 1293, the Mongols assembled their armies ready to launch the 4th invasion against Vietnam but because Khubilai Khan later died the next year, the 4th invasion did not occur.

[DaiNamViet]

I guess the Mongols just can't take no for an answer (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[aaronly]

Ly's Dynasty all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nam Quoc Son Ha]

In 1293, the Mongols assembled their armies ready to launch the 4th invasion against Vietnam but because Khubilai Khan later died the next year, the 4th invasion did not occur.

I guess they haven't learnt their lessons. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)