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Why Filipinos Should Hate The Usa
Taal-Lakawan
post Apr 10 2006, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (Forumwalker @ Jul 10 2004, 11:05 PM) *
yes the filipinos should hate the americans in their hearts but hating them openly would only make the Philippines' no. 1 importer of Filipino products ignore the Philippines as a whole. Visas would be tough, dollar would be hard to find, Filipinos in the USA and other nations would further be discriminated, the already failing RP economy will tumble and democracy will fail. anarchy will prevail.

yes, we should hate the americans.. but only in our hearts. and someday, when they rely too much on Filipinos in taking care of their old and sick, when they rely too much on Filipino engineers in their navy vessels, when they rely too much on Filipino teachers, they'd realise how important Filipinos are a part of their lives. someday, we can proudly tell them that we can live without you, but you can't live without us.

well.. so much for a dream. back to reality. the philippines badly needs the US. embarassedlaugh.gif


WE MUST KEEP IN MIND THAT THE POLICY OF THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECTS THE VIEW OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN GENERAL. FOR EXAMPLE: THE TREATMENT OF THE JAPANESE-AMERICANS IN INTERNMENT CAMPS AFTER PEARL HARBOR AND THE NEAR-EXTERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN INDIANS IN THE HANDS OF THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE VIEW OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN GENERAL. THIS IS WHY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TODAY ARE OVERLY WARY AND SUSPECIOUS OF EVERY MOVE THEIR GOVERNMENT DOES. -- Taal-Lakawan.
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tinman01
post Apr 27 2006, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE(Taal-Lakawan @ Apr 10 2006, 08:09 PM) [snapback]1739100[/snapback]

WE MUST KEEP IN MIND THAT THE POLICY OF THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECTS THE VIEW OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN GENERAL. FOR EXAMPLE: THE TREATMENT OF THE JAPANESE-AMERICANS IN INTERNMENT CAMPS AFTER PEARL HARBOR AND THE NEAR-EXTERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN INDIANS IN THE HANDS OF THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE VIEW OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN GENERAL. THIS IS WHY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TODAY ARE OVERLY WARY AND SUSPECIOUS OF EVERY MOVE THEIR GOVERNMENT DOES. -- Taal-Lakawan.

Well said. Although the goverment is supposed to represent the American people and our best interest, like most goverment officials ours really represent themselves.
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filipinoy
post Apr 27 2006, 11:33 PM
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I can't hate the United States......i just can't icon_neutral.gif
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tinman01
post Apr 27 2006, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE(Taal-Lakawan @ Apr 10 2006, 01:22 PM) [snapback]1738197[/snapback]

WE SHOULD NOT PRACTICE HATRED ON ANYONE OR ANY NATIONALS OF ANY COUNTRY OR ANY RACE OF HUMANS -- THAT'S TOO MUCH BAGGAGE TO CARRY AROUND! INSTEAD WE SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON IMPROVING OURSELVES AND THE CONDITIONS IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. -- Taal-Lakawan

Well said, its easy to say if only the USA this or that but what about those within that abuse your system? What about those within that care little for your poor? Are they not the ones really at fault?
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Sweet Pea
post Apr 29 2006, 04:26 AM
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I hate americans.
they stink and my gay step dad is one beerchug.gif
j/k
but my step father is a stereotypical loud arrogant american. his a retard.
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Taal-Lakawan
post Apr 30 2006, 08:04 PM
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Does anybody out there knows what happen to the economy of the towns in the philippines where the U.S. bases used to be ???

This post has been edited by Taal-Lakawan: Apr 30 2006, 08:06 PM
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filipinoy
post Apr 30 2006, 11:23 PM
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^prostitution died out
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asyano
post May 1 2006, 03:49 PM
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from wikipedia.org
Subic Bay Naval Base is now known as the Subic Bay Freeport Zone
QUOTE
Subic has since been transformed and became a model for bases conversion into commercial use after the Cold War with blue chip companies pumping in over $3 billion of investments creating 70,000 jobs in the first four years. It was host to the 4th APEC Leaders' Summit in November 24, 1996. Federal Express's Asia Pacific hub, Asia-One, is at Subic Bay.
In addition to commercial use, Subic Bay is also a popular destination for weekend visitors from Manila. Attractions include several small beaches, an underwater aquarium, jungle survival tours, and duty-free shopping centers.
Clark Air Base is now known as the Clark Special Economic Zone
QUOTE
In 1995, following years of neglect, cleanup and removal of volcanic ash deposits began. The former base re-emerged as Diosdado Macapagal International Airport (Clark International Airport) and Clark Special Economic Zone (CSEZ). The airfield infrastructure was improved to make it one of the most modern in Asia, and a second parallel runway was built. The former base is now home to a golf resort, a number of industrial buildings, landmarks, and retail establishments.
beerchug.gif
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Lifeshadower
post May 2 2006, 10:36 PM
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Well, since I live in the USA, I will give my views on it. As long as I could remember being here, the American people have been the one of the most open and generally nicest people I have ever encountered. That withstanding, I think the problem with Filipinos is that they tend to forget what happened.

Many Filipinos gripe on and on about how the Japanese royally screwed the Philippines during WW2, but forget what the Americans did. In that aspect, I view the Americans the same as the Japanese because the Americans did come to the Philippines and deny the country of their right to self-determination due to some vague idea of civilization. A very substantial amount of Filipinos died in the ensuing fight that came to be afterwards, but instead of acknowledging their deaths, many forget. I think that is a shame.

Lets take this into modern day. American support is a double edged sword. In other countries in East Asia (such as South Korea and Japan), American occupation was very beneficial, as it gave a jumpstart to their economy. In the Philippines, the economy STAGNATED. The virtual monopolization of the Filipino economy by the Americans and the lack of the industrial and service sector jobs that could have been built up during the American colonial era and forward. I realize this doesn't take into account a plethora of other factors, but it shows a sense of favoritism among American planners when it comes to development.

I think the important thing though, is to seperate the American people, who have really little or no say in how foreign policy works, and the American government. Our jobs as Filipinos is to never forget our history and kiss @$$.

"There are no such things as permanent allies or permanent enemies. Only permanent interests"
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Taal-Lakawan
post May 3 2006, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE(Lifeshadower @ May 2 2006, 10:36 PM) [snapback]1813440[/snapback]

Well, since I live in the USA, I will give my views on it. As long as I could remember being here, the American people have been the one of the most open and generally nicest people I have ever encountered. That withstanding, I think the problem with Filipinos is that they tend to forget what happened.

Many Filipinos gripe on and on about how the Japanese royally screwed the Philippines during WW2, but forget what the Americans did. In that aspect, I view the Americans the same as the Japanese because the Americans did come to the Philippines and deny the country of their right to self-determination due to some vague idea of civilization. A very substantial amount of Filipinos died in the ensuing fight that came to be afterwards, but instead of acknowledging their deaths, many forget. I think that is a shame.

Lets take this into modern day. American support is a double edged sword. In other countries in East Asia (such as South Korea and Japan), American occupation was very beneficial, as it gave a jumpstart to their economy. In the Philippines, the economy STAGNATED. The virtual monopolization of the Filipino economy by the Americans and the lack of the industrial and service sector jobs that could have been built up during the American colonial era and forward. I realize this doesn't take into account a plethora of other factors, but it shows a sense of favoritism among American planners when it comes to development.

I think the important thing though, is to seperate the American people, who have really little or no say in how foreign policy works, and the American government. Our jobs as Filipinos is to never forget our history and kiss @$$.

"There are no such things as permanent allies or permanent enemies. Only permanent interests"


The standing interest of the industrialized countries -- including USA -- with their foreign aids to poor countries -- like the Philippines -- is to improve the latters' economies so the formers' industrialized products can enter the local markets and be bought. Also it's their interest to promote world peace so world trade may flourish. The key word is "global market".

Only in these conditions of the global market can the industrialized nations thrive. (Their products must be sold.)

In fact, the main role of the U.S. Navy is to keep the seas free for commerce.
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RL33
post May 3 2006, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE(Lifeshadower @ May 2 2006, 08:36 PM) [snapback]1813440[/snapback]

Well, since I live in the USA, I will give my views on it. As long as I could remember being here, the American people have been the one of the most open and generally nicest people I have ever encountered. That withstanding, I think the problem with Filipinos is that they tend to forget what happened.

Many Filipinos gripe on and on about how the Japanese royally screwed the Philippines during WW2, but forget what the Americans did. In that aspect, I view the Americans the same as the Japanese because the Americans did come to the Philippines and deny the country of their right to self-determination due to some vague idea of civilization. A very substantial amount of Filipinos died in the ensuing fight that came to be afterwards, but instead of acknowledging their deaths, many forget. I think that is a shame.

Lets take this into modern day. American support is a double edged sword. In other countries in East Asia (such as South Korea and Japan), American occupation was very beneficial, as it gave a jumpstart to their economy. In the Philippines, the economy STAGNATED. The virtual monopolization of the Filipino economy by the Americans and the lack of the industrial and service sector jobs that could have been built up during the American colonial era and forward. I realize this doesn't take into account a plethora of other factors, but it shows a sense of favoritism among American planners when it comes to development.

I think the important thing though, is to seperate the American people, who have really little or no say in how foreign policy works, and the American government. Our jobs as Filipinos is to never forget our history and kiss @$$.

"There are no such things as permanent allies or permanent enemies. Only permanent interests"


I agree the Americans were just as bad as the japanese and the spanish,
perhaps its a wierd case of Stockholm syndrome???

Well one incentive for the americans to go into WW2 was that it was going to be good for the economy, so it isnt surprising that they favored spending more money rebuilding Japan (a former trading partner) than Philippines (manila was the most devastated city in Asia).

Thats always been my stance on the matter "not to hold grudges for it is not our way but we must never forget the past " because we will only be doomed to repeat it.
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Taal-Lakawan
post May 4 2006, 07:22 AM
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QUOTE(filipinoy @ Apr 30 2006, 11:23 PM) [snapback]1807429[/snapback]

^prostitution died out


Or probably they just moved somewhere else.
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tinman01
post May 4 2006, 09:33 AM
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Why blame the USA for todays woes in your country? You wanted the bases closed, now they are closed. You wanted different leadership in your country and you have it. How is it the USA's fault that your leadership has not been effective in jump starting your economy? You say the USA showed favoratism towards S.Korea and Japan. Japan and S.Korea have put extraordinay effort into building their economy. What has your leadership done? I dont mean any insult. Have they asked for help from your more wealthy asian neighbors? If so what have they done with it? The USA tends to support what ever leader your country or any friendly country elects. If the people just like the USA elect poorly there is very little the USA can or will do about it. The USA sends alot of aide in terms of money your way. What has your government done with it? What is your government doing about the blatent corruption amoung its public officials? Probibly about as much as what the USA does with ours. I have a friend lives in Cebu with his family. They Love the filipines,love the people, but hate the corruption. His wife is from manila. She comes from a wel to do family.
My point in all this is simple. Its easy to point fingers and not look in the mirror to place blame. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution only you can make change happen. Its easy to be negative and blame others but offer no solutions. The challenge is to look at a problem and search for realistic solutions. If the USA is the problem today then I suggest you identify what it is specifically and work against it. I can't know your pain. I have never walked that mile. I came from a very poor family but in the USA hard work and foward thinking can deliver you from that misery. I don't know how it is there. I do know filipino people here. They tend to be hard working honest people. This is what confuses me when I here stories of blatent corruption. I have never met a filipino I didn't respect and even like. Your people are wonderful in every way that matters.
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EyEsTrAiN
post May 4 2006, 05:15 PM
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The American gave us a lot of assistance and reparations(compensations) to rebuild our lives and the Japanese paid a lot of money for their atrocities during the war also. The Philippines was rich throughout 1910-70, but flawed to the core.

America promised us independence!, but the Filipinos were not up to the challenge(always asking help from the U.S) and mishandled everything. Aside from that, the Philippines is pretty much a YOUNG COUNTRY(60 years/independence). Spain only controlled insignificant islands with different cultures, language, and people that later merged to become the Philippine islands.

This post has been edited by EyEsTrAiN: May 4 2006, 05:17 PM
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oanari
post May 5 2006, 02:13 AM
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I am not sure if this is true, but when I was a kid, I've been hearing that Marcos wanted to increase the lease on those U.S. bases in the Philippines, pero ayaw ng mga Kano. Yung ibinabayad nila sa mga base, sinasabing "aid". Kaya ayun, Marcos made a decision, that instead na yung original na 99 year lease, he lower it down to 25 years. Dahil sa ginawa ni Marcos, nagalit ang mga Kano, kaya nung nag "People Power" na, hindi nila sinupurtahan si Marcos, instead they even told him to step down. Kaya nung sinabi ni Marcos, "take me to Paoay" he ended up instead in Hawaii.

A Filipino telling his grandson, after he witness the American soldiers raping Filipino women in Mindanao. From John Keat's "They Fought Alone"
"I'v seen four types of people that came in our beautiful islands. The Spanish were bad, but the Americans are worse than the Spanish. The Japanese are more worse than the Americans, but the worst of them all are the new Americans"

The Americans promised the Filipinos their independence. They asked their help to get rid of the Spanish out of the Philippines, and when the Filipinos did that, the Americans turned their guns against the Filipinos. \

The Americans promised the Filipino soldiers who fought during World War II that they will received full benefits, but until now hundreds of Filipino World War II Veterans are dying each year without even seeing that benefits from the country they had fought for.

In William Bauer books "The Great Raid" he said that after WWII, the former Yugoslavia (which is not even a close ally of the US) received $300 million dollars from the United States to rebuild that country. The Philippines on the other hand, who is a very close allies with the US, that fought with the U.S. from the beginning of the war until the end, received only $30 million to rebuild the country.

Japan, Germany, Italy who are enemies of the United States during WWII, received more.

This post has been edited by oanari: May 5 2006, 02:15 AM
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tinman01
post May 5 2006, 08:17 AM
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QUOTE(oanari @ May 5 2006, 03:13 AM) [snapback]1820931[/snapback]

I am not sure if this is true, but when I was a kid, I've been hearing that Marcos wanted to increase the lease on those U.S. bases in the Philippines, pero ayaw ng mga Kano. Yung ibinabayad nila sa mga base, sinasabing "aid". Kaya ayun, Marcos made a decision, that instead na yung original na 99 year lease, he lower it down to 25 years. Dahil sa ginawa ni Marcos, nagalit ang mga Kano, kaya nung nag "People Power" na, hindi nila sinupurtahan si Marcos, instead they even told him to step down. Kaya nung sinabi ni Marcos, "take me to Paoay" he ended up instead in Hawaii.

A Filipino telling his grandson, after he witness the American soldiers raping Filipino women in Mindanao. From John Keat's "They Fought Alone"
"I'v seen four types of people that came in our beautiful islands. The Spanish were bad, but the Americans are worse than the Spanish. The Japanese are more worse than the Americans, but the worst of them all are the new Americans"

The Americans promised the Filipinos their independence. They asked their help to get rid of the Spanish out of the Philippines, and when the Filipinos did that, the Americans turned their guns against the Filipinos. \

The Americans promised the Filipino soldiers who fought during World War II that they will received full benefits, but until now hundreds of Filipino World War II Veterans are dying each year without even seeing that benefits from the country they had fought for.

In William Bauer books "The Great Raid" he said that after WWII, the former Yugoslavia (which is not even a close ally of the US) received $300 million dollars from the United States to rebuild that country. The Philippines on the other hand, who is a very close allies with the US, that fought with the U.S. from the beginning of the war until the end, received only $30 million to rebuild the country.

Japan, Germany, Italy who are enemies of the United States during WWII, received more.

I am confused. Why is it that the USA is required to give the Filipines more money than others? If my father gave more money to my brother than to me I should be upset? Its my fathers money he can give it how he see's fit. The US has been giving Money nonstop to the filipines . Add it up . Its alot more than 30 million dollars. Don't get wrong I believe we should help you. But please make no mistake its a gift. Not a loan, not a repayment of a loan. As such one should not complain about a gift.
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Lifeshadower
post May 5 2006, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE(tinman01 @ May 5 2006, 06:17 AM) [snapback]1821541[/snapback]

I am confused. Why is it that the USA is required to give the Filipines more money than others? If my father gave more money to my brother than to me I should be upset? Its my fathers money he can give it how he see's fit. The US has been giving Money nonstop to the filipines . Add it up . Its alot more than 30 million dollars. Don't get wrong I believe we should help you. But please make no mistake its a gift. Not a loan, not a repayment of a loan. As such one should not complain about a gift.


Well, the USA doesn't have to do anything in my opinion (especially since the United States did donate alot during that time for the Marshall Plan to Europe).


This is from a purely historical point of view. Why did the Americans go into the Philippines with an altruistic intent, but ended up doing little to improve standard of living for the people living there? Mind you, this is from a historical point of view. Why should Filipinos feel a bond with a nation that shackled it again, under the banner of colonialism? Studying HISTORY, it seems that the Americans can't be trusted. I am fine with government relationships and things of that nature, but no way should America claim any sense of a moral step up from the Spanish or the Japanese. Why the double standard? Don't get me wrong, I love America with all my heart, but I'm sick of hearing about how much the Philippines is dependent on America. Like any invader nation, there will always be negative feelings towards it.

From the economic point of view, the first thing that the Philippines needs badly is to end, or at least, curtail alot of the corruption that goes on. Nowadays, the place is so horribly corrupt that it engulfs 10% of the NATIONAL GDP. Believe it or not, but until Marcos, the Philippines had one of the healthiest economies in Asia (2nd only to Japan). If anyone should be blamed for the economic woes, it should be Marcos and everyone after that who didn't do enough to combat corruption. I think that should be the first priority in Philippine politics, and actually have a leader with guts enough to enforce it.
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tinman01
post May 5 2006, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE(Lifeshadower @ May 5 2006, 10:32 AM) [snapback]1821689[/snapback]

Well, the USA doesn't have to do anything in my opinion (especially since the United States did donate alot during that time for the Marshall Plan to Europe).
This is from a purely historical point of view. Why did the Americans go into the Philippines with an altruistic intent, but ended up doing little to improve standard of living for the people living there? Mind you, this is from a historical point of view. Why should Filipinos feel a bond with a nation that shackled it again, under the banner of colonialism? Studying HISTORY, it seems that the Americans can't be trusted. I am fine with government relationships and things of that nature, but no way should America claim any sense of a moral step up from the Spanish or the Japanese. Why the double standard? Don't get me wrong, I love America with all my heart, but I'm sick of hearing about how much the Philippines is dependent on America. Like any invader nation, there will always be negative feelings towards it.

From the economic point of view, the first thing that the Philippines needs badly is to end, or at least, curtail alot of the corruption that goes on. Nowadays, the place is so horribly corrupt that it engulfs 10% of the NATIONAL GDP. Believe it or not, but until Marcos, the Philippines had one of the healthiest economies in Asia (2nd only to Japan). If anyone should be blamed for the economic woes, it should be Marcos and everyone after that who didn't do enough to combat corruption. I think that should be the first priority in Philippine politics, and actually have a leader with guts enough to enforce it.

Thank you well said.
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RL33
post May 6 2006, 05:15 PM
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QUOTE(Lifeshadower @ May 5 2006, 07:32 AM) [snapback]1821689[/snapback]

Believe it or not, but until Marcos, the Philippines had one of the healthiest economies in Asia (2nd only to Japan). If anyone should be blamed for the economic woes, it should be Marcos and everyone after that who didn't do enough to combat corruption. I think that should be the first priority in Philippine politics, and actually have a leader with guts enough to enforce it.

The filipino board is split on Marcos but he and his cronies in my opinion played a huge role in the Philippines economic downfall. I dont get how anyone can still support him oh well even hitler still has his supporters then why not Marcos lol..

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tinman01
post May 6 2006, 08:42 PM
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The same is true in the USA. People still support politicians that were either voted out of office or thrown out due to misdeeds such as corruption etc. The ones who benifitted most from it will always feel like the crook was a good man. Corruption puts a strangle hold on everyone at its mercy. Unfortunately most people are not into politics because the feel a civic duty. They do it to get rich, make friends who will make them rich or just thirst for power. Politicians are not the cream of any society. They are professional liars.
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