What do Indonesian surnames say abt their lineage? Options

[Majapahitans]

i think Madja explained it generally....village people usually have name ended with "em" but it doesnt mean they have lower status, yes, most of them are poor but it doesnt mean they name their children with suffix "em" because they're poor...its just the mater of culture....their ancestor use that kinda name so they use it...is that right majja?

Yeah you right..... nowadays Sartiyem who owned chains of Warteg (Warung Tegal) can faaar be richer than Dewi Sulastri, a widow junior high teacher who also bride's make-up artist (perias pengantin). But Sulastri can trace her ancestry to nobles of Pakubhuwono, Solo, while Sartiyem ancestor is a mere pheasants from Tegal.... You see my point here....? even up until now, Javanese are stratified community....., nobles..., often poor, are proud bunch of people....

CMIIW,people in some provinces put royal symbol in their name too...like Tengku in Riau or Raden in Java...

You right there's titles turned to name....
Teuku (m) (read Tengku) and Cut (f) for nobles from Aceh
Tuanku (m) for nobles from Minangkabau Sumatran Malay lands (Coastal North Sumatra, Jambi, South Sumatra)
Andi (m/f) (nobles from Bugis)
Ratu (f) and Tubagus (m) nobles from Banten
Ratu (m/f) for descends of ancient Balinese lineage, royalties from Bali
Raden (m/f) (in short "Den") nobles from Java and eastern Priangan (Ciamis and Cirebon).
Mas (m) nobles from eastern Priangan.
CMIIW..... Gusti (m) and Galuh (f) is noble names from Southern Kalimantan...?

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Jun 25 2007, 07:51 AM

[Bhaskara]

purrpie: Yeah, Indonesian Muslims like to use their father's first names behind their own. But usually if they have a surname, they would put their surnames instead. I wonder why your mother put you father's first name? Maybe that's not his surname, maybe it's just his second first name....

majjy: We have what we call "Tutus" and "Jaba" in the Kraton of South Kalimantan, which is determined by the the nobleman/woman's relationship with the ruler (how close they are to the king, and whether they are on the winning king's side or the loser king's). "Tutus" titles are:
1. Pangeran and Ratu
2. Gusti
3. Antung or Raden
4. Nanang or Anang
5. Andin
6. Rama

[singapak2]

Oh yeah, I know that Muslim Malaysians male use "Bin" (son of), and the female use "Bte". What "Bte" stands for? In Indonesia, we would only know it by "Binti" (daughter of, I presume).

Bte is the shortform for Binti or some people spell it as Binte.
B is the short form for Bin.

Almost every Muslims use this Bin/Binti. Just go to the Muslim cemetery and you see the names... Ali bin Alif, Intan Binti Ali, Syed Muhammad Ali Aljuneid Bin Syed Mohamed Mohsein Aljuneid etc etc etc.....

[tangawizi]

Wow... so many honorific noble titles....! Are they still in use in Indonesia?

[Bhaskara]

Yeah, they are.

[tangawizi]

Who gives out these titles?

Are there still any royal javanese princesses who live like in the old days? having lulur and flower scented baths in the river lakes everyday?

[tangawizi]

Bte is the shortform for Binti or some people spell it as Binte.
B is the short form for Bin.

Almost every Muslims use this Bin/Binti. Just go to the Muslim cemetery and you see the names... Ali bin Alif, Intan Binti Ali, Syed Muhammad Ali Aljuneid Bin Syed Mohamed Mohsein Aljuneid etc etc etc.....

Is the word Bin or Binte an arabic word?

[singapak2]

^ Yup it is Arabic.

Even Arab Christians use Bin/Binti.

I got an Indian Muslim friend who uses... s/o aka son of......... Mustafa s/o Alwi

[Bhaskara]

Hmm... who gives out these titles? These titles are passed down from your parents to you. Of course on some special occasion, a board of elders could decide to give out titles to people out of the royalty, but usually the titles are limited and wouldn't be at a high level.

[tangawizi]

I have met the youngest brother of Megawati Sukarnoputri who was living in Singapore .. i can't remember his name now .. met him at a party. he said he was royalty because his name was Sukarnoputri.. is this name royalty really???

[Bhaskara]

Ergh.. he said that? He must be a fake!
1. "Soekarnoputra" or "Soekarnoputri" is patronymic "surname", it means that they are the son/daughter of Soekarno.
2. So, if he claim his name was "Soekarnoputri', he's claiming that he is a woman.
3. Furthermore, Soekarno is not of royalty. How could a son of a Javanese teacher be one?
If he was a son of Soekarno, claiming to be of royalty, you should just laugh in his face!

What was his name? Guruh Soekarnoputra?

[tangawizi]

To be frank, i don't remember his name if it was Sukarnoputra or putri or even if it was Guruh, but he was surely a wastrel.. the guy was running away from Indonesia because of something he did back home and his family had sent him to SG so as not to face the music. I think he said he was step-brother of Megawati..same father but not the same mother...

[Bhaskara]

Hmm... maybe he's a fake, or maybe he's not... we'll never know. Aside from his good qualities, Sukarno was also known for his weakness to women...

[gadismelayusejat...]

weakness to woman.............hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Majapahitans]

weakness to woman.............hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Let's just say he's a womanizer.......

Furthermore, Soekarno is not of royalty. How could a son of a Javanese teacher be one?

Actually Sukarno's mother, Ida Ayu Nyoman Rai is a Balinese Lady, a dear nephew of the King of Singaraja, Bali.
She convert to Islam after married Sukemi Sastrodiharjo.
His father, Raden Sukemi Sastrodihardjo is a teacher..., he also came from noble family. He can trace his ancestry to Javanese royal house.

So Sukarno is blueblooded noble.
Even some Balinese believe that he's an incarnation of Wishnu....., the descendants of long ancient royal lineage from Singhasari, Majapahit to royal house Bali, also they said the true "ruler" of archipelago.....

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Jun 29 2007, 01:10 PM

[Bhaskara]

If his father really was a Raden, Majjy, why didn't he passed down that title to Soekarno? I think it's just glorification by his fans. I bet if it really was the truth, then Soekarno and his children would shamelessly wear that title on their names on every thinkable occassions. Imagine, Raden Ayu Megawati Soekarnoputri or Raden (Ayu? ) Guruh Soekarnoputra

[furansizuka]

my grandfather has a surname, except my mother uses her father's first name as her surname. why?

that's a unique case. Anyone care to explain?

Speaking of surname, do you guys know that the Iceland women add "dottir" after their surname? It's very interesting. We don't have a kind like that.

[Majapahitans]

If his father really was a Raden, Majjy, why didn't he passed down that title to Soekarno? I think it's just glorification by his fans. I bet if it really was the truth, then Soekarno and his children would shamelessly wear that title on their names on every thinkable occassions. Imagine, Raden Ayu Megawati Soekarnoputri or Raden (Ayu? ) Guruh Soekarnoputra

Not all people with noble ancestor would put their "gelar" on their name.....
Probably feelin odd or just for the sake of modesty since it was waaay to far away from their family trees.....
You know...., gettin further from the "kraton",
Probably the same as this case:
Supposed if your great-grandmother is Javanese princess, since she left the Surakarta palace in 1910's becoz she's just one of many King's childrens, just a daughter from a Selir (concubine), then she married lesser noble, moved to another provincial "Kabupaten". She kept reminding her offspring that they have King's blood running in them and must act accordingly like noble (quite arrogant huh.... ). As time goes by, their ofspring would be felt shy or felt too modest to used the "gelar" Raden, or Mas in their name.

In case of Sukarno, probably Raden Sukemi Sastrodihardjo the same case, he fall too far from kraton family trees, but I think he's somehow from noble family too. In case of Sukarno's mother, Ida Ayu Nyoman Rai, it's not a mistake, that she's a Balinese Lady from noble family of Ksatriya caste.

[singapak2]

Some Javanese names sound Japanese. Just like the word Javanese and Japanese. Replace V with P, vice versa.

[furansizuka]

somehow it does sound like japanese name (e.g: Sutomo, Muroto, Sudiro....)