Why terrorism is so endless?, It's everywhere. Options

[Dette]

Terrorism seems boundless. I know for a fact that those behind terrorism fight for their right. But I don't know exactly why it's been going on for ages. Do you think people especially in the government should change their tactics in overcoming terrorism? Why such an element like terrorists exist although we all know that they fight for a reason . I dont know that myself. Can someone educate me about this?

This post has been edited by Dette: Aug 15 2007, 02:58 AM

[Suijen]

Terrorism survives because, like a weed, it can continue to grow. It gains its supporters from those who view the US or whatever power as a threat. The large number of civilian casualties related to war seem to corrobate that fear. Not only that, terrorists make it a very "us versus them" game, and from the looks of it, it seems to be that way (Muslims v. Westerners).

The solution to it, in my opinion, is to probably work a bit more on the US's image. More propaganda will help. Discredit the terrorists, and eliminate whatever "us versus them" beliefs.

The Taliban paints itself and Muslims as enemies of the US, and attitudes against Muslims would tend to support that.

[Dette]

Terrorism survives because, like a weed, it can continue to grow. It gains its supporters from those who view the US or whatever power as a threat. The large number of civilian casualties related to war seem to corrobate that fear. Not only that, terrorists make it a very "us versus them" game, and from the looks of it, it seems to be that way (Muslims v. Westerners).

The solution to it, in my opinion, is to probably work a bit more on the US's image. More propaganda will help. Discredit the terrorists, and eliminate whatever "us versus them" beliefs.

The Taliban paints itself and Muslims as enemies of the US, and attitudes against Muslims would tend to support that.

Does that mean Muslims are naturally terrorists?
Apology to Muslims out there ...Just asking...

[PB.]

We need a Dette Dynasty to end all of this madness ! !

[Dette]

We need a Dette Dynasty to end all of this madness ! !

Do you think that would be the answer to all this?
Mmmm.. that must be a pretty cool idea!

Well, stick to the topic please....

[Suijen]

Does that mean Muslims are naturally terrorists?
Apology to Muslims out there ...Just asking...

No, I'm saying that to counter terrorism, they shouldn't be portrayed as that.

[Dette]

No, I'm saying that to counter terrorism, they shouldn't be portrayed as that.

Yeah , Guess so. I believe they won't retaliate unless being offended though..

This post has been edited by Dette: Aug 15 2007, 04:01 AM

[VietGuy7]

The solution to it, in my opinion, is to probably work a bit more on the US's image. More propaganda will help. Discredit the terrorists, and eliminate whatever "us versus them" beliefs.

I disagree.

1. The US needs to git da heck out of the Arab lands. I'm talking military bases. Bin Laden attacked because of the presence of US bases in Saudi Arabia--the land of Mecca. Now they are in Iraq, not to mention a few other smaller Arab countries. All these bases need to be pulled out. No amount of positive propaganda will be enough. The US is hated on the "Arab street" because of it's uneven--indeed overwhelming support of... You guessed it...

2. Israel. Israel is at the heart of all of this. Everyone mainstream, repeat: MAINSTREAM scholar agrees that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is at the heart of it all. The US must pressure Israel to make peace. It has to be even handed, not arm Israel as it drops phorphorus bombs on little Lebanese children--which is exactly what they did in 2006. No amount of postive propaganda can solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They've got to be forced to make peace.

When these two things are solved, the Arabs will practically calm down overnight. The Arabs are the "chosen people" of Allah. They are the keepers of the flame. They have Mohammed's body in Mecca. Mohammed was an Arab. They are the authority of Islam and how Islam is interpreted. When they see peace in their lands, i.e. with Israel, and no US military bases. They themselves will universally condemn terrorism, be in by Arabs or Pakistanis, Indonesians, Chechens, Afghans, etc.

Now, there is that theme of things going way, way out of control evolving into that which has no semblance to the original intentions: Arab/Islamic/matrydom/suicide terrorism has gotten so bad that even if the original goals are achieved, namely the destruction of Israel and the elimination of US bases from the Mideast, that it still wouldn't matter. And Islamic terrorists exist for the sake of terrorism, period. Fortunately, I think this is impossible. There are a lot of unintended consequences, but this is not one of them.

Terrorism will dry up if Israel makes peace with the Palestinians giving their own state, and if the US pulls all of its bases out of the Mideast. Terrorists will certainly lose their raison d'etre if this ever happens.

And yes, yes, I know that Hamas officially vows to destroy Israel. So did the PLO a long time ago.

BTW, all mainstream analysts, and even many rightwing analysts say that Bush's "war on terror" is creating more terrorism--not less, in large part due to... civilian casualties. This was an unintended consequence--no doubt. And most certainly, they did not foresee how utterly virulent and persistent each generation of Islamic terrorists increasingly become.

[Dette]

I disagree.

1. The US needs to git da heck out of the Arab lands. I'm talking military bases. Bin Laden attacked because of the presence of US bases in Saudi Arabia--the land of Mecca. Now they are in Iraq, not to mention a few other smaller Arab countries. All these bases need to be pulled out. No amount of positive propaganda will be enough. The US is hated on the "Arab street" because of it's uneven--indeed overwhelming support of... You guessed it...
.

So, you are basically saying that if those military base are to be pulled out from arab lands, terrorism would end then? Well I know not just in Arab lands do US military exists.Well mainly they are there cuz they are needed there.If all those US military troops were to be pulled out what would happen then?

This post has been edited by Dette: Aug 15 2007, 04:33 AM

[tinman01]

No, I'm saying that to counter terrorism, they shouldn't be portrayed as that.

Well said and I would add That part of the problem is when the media blatently down plays a terrorist groups misdeeds and over states the faults of the US military or anyone elses. My point being the media tends to paint terrorists as misunderstood beatdown victims. The fact is most terrorists target the weak to allegedly make a point and then blame the powers that be. The other half is when outsiders use terrorist groups to fullfill their own agenda. Sad but true every modern power is guilty of this.

[VietGuy7]

So, you are basically saying that if those military base are to be pulled out from arab lands, terrorism would end then? Well I know not just in Arab lands do US military exists.Well mainly they are there cuz they are needed there.If all those US military troops were to be pulled out what would happen then?

Yes.

But America must also stop the lopsided support of Israel, like rearming them as they are bombimg Arab civilians in 2006.

Further, Arab/Islamic terrorism won't end until there's peace between the Palestinians and Israelis. The Palestinians must have their own state. The Israelis are militarily dominant, uber dominant. Terrorism is the ideology and methodology of the weak--and the oppressed. Take away the oppression, or make them militarily equal, then the Palestinians and their Arab bethren won't resort to terroism. Remember, the US is on the side of Israel; the US is has the most powerful military ever! You don't fight people head on (conventionally) who are overwhelmingly stronger than you: You must go asymmetrical. Think of the "path of least resistance". The answer then is: TERRORISM.

US has military bases in other countries too? True. Duh! But many countries resort to terrorism too, insurgency, asymmetrical warfare, etc., and sometimes even suicide terrorism/martydom. But, the thing about the Arabs is that their religion has this nifty little idea: Jihad. Again, think of "the path of least resistance". The religion paves a way already, so why not take it. Most cultures/religions do not have this. (Perhaps the WWII Japanese come the closest--but that was culture and not religion.)

Further, for the Arabs, in the past, since the time of the Crusades to the colonial era and now to the neo-imperialistic age, they've always rallied around their religions/religious leaders as a way to fight the outsiders/infidels/oppressors. Again think of "the path of least resistance".

To summarize: the path of least resistance pushes the to their current form of terrorism in three different ways.

1. Their foe has overwhelming technological superiority. => Go asymmetrical
2. History => Turn to Islam (other cultures would turn to Marxism-Leninism which is anti-religion)
3. Islam => Jihad

Note that 1,2 & 3 are mutually consistent, if you will.

Lastly, it was the zionist Jews who introduced the concept of martyrdom and terrorism into the Mideast in the 1930's. The Stern Gang, the Haganah, Lehi, et al who were the first terrorist organizations of the Mideast. They bomb hotels, etc., killing innocent civilians. Many of the members of the Stern Gang and the Haganah went on to become the top Israeli leaders when the state of Israel was formed. The Arabs then copied the art of terrorism from the Jews, who were killing them, willy nilly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

Talk about blowback.

This post has been edited by VietGuy7: Aug 15 2007, 08:32 AM

[Suijen]

^ That helps contribute to that negative image of the US, yup.

[Jarhier]

Not only that, terrorists make it a very "us versus them" game, and from the looks of it, it seems to be that way (Muslims v. Westerners).

that's the same scare-tactic bush uses though

[Suijen]

Yeah I know. That silly bastard.

[Jarhier]

lol i'm trying to find a clip where bush says to reporter that muslims are going to cut his family's head if the iraq war fails.

i think impeaching bush will save a lot of US' almost unrepairable image he has caused but that'll never happen

This post has been edited by Jarhier: Aug 15 2007, 12:10 PM

[Role Model]

well i proudly confess Terrorism ended in Nepal. uhmmm it wasn't actually terrorism... but sort of in some extent, well we used to have violence it's good to see that birds are flying in the sky once again =]

[Dette]

lol i'm trying to find a clip where bush says to reporter that muslims are going to cut his family's head if the iraq war fails.

i think impeaching bush will save a lot of US' almost unrepairable image he has caused but that'll never happen

I heard from some friends that Bush is like a rich neighbor being nosey about other people's lives. He would try to butt in even if he's not even wanted. Is it the same thing as being desperate in wiping out the terrorists?Or is it just his personal agenda?
Like in Iraq, they said Iraq used to be in a normal situation not until Bush sent all those military troops to take over control of the situation and more like keeping an eye on those so-called terrorists.
Should he just focus his mind to other matters than bugging the middle east?

[lisper]

My friends

Please do not blame Islam for what muslims do .

Please do not do to us any injustice

here is some translated verses of the Quran:-

060.008
Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.


004.135
O you who believe! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of Allah's sake, though it may be against your own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, Allah is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do.

006.151
Say: Come I will recite what your Lord has forbidden to you-- (remember) that you do not associate anything with Him and show kindness to your parents, and do not slay your children for (fear of) poverty-- We provide for you and for them-- and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed, and do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden except for the requirements of justice; this He has enjoined you with that you may understand.

006.152
And do not approach the property of the orphan except in the best manner until he attains his maturity, and give full measure and weight with justice-- We do not impose on any soul a duty except to the extent of its ability; and when you speak, then be just though it be (against) a relative, and fulfill Allah's covenant; this He has enjoined you with that you may be mindful;

11:85
Hence, O my people, [always] give full measure and weight, with equity, and do not deprive people of what is rightfully theirs, [118] and do not act wickedly on earth by spreading corruption.

16:90
BEHOLD, God enjoins justice, and the doing of good, and generosity towards [one's] fellow-men; and He forbids all that is shameful and all that runs counter to reason, as well as envy; [and] He exhorts you [repeatedly] so that you might bear [all this] in mind.

42:42
blame attaches but to those who oppress [other] people and behave outrageously on earth, offending against all right: for them there is grievous suffering in store!

--------------------------------------
10.4
Unto Him you all must return: this is, in truth, God's promise-for, behold, He creates [man] in the first instance, and then brings him forth anew to the end that He may reward with equity all who attain to faith and do righteous deeds; whereas for those who are bent on denying the truth there is in store a draught of burning despair and grievous suffering because of their persistent refusal to acknowledge the truth.

This post has been edited by lisper: Aug 15 2007, 01:52 PM

[tinman01]

Yes.

But America must also stop the lopsided support of Israel, like rearming them as they are bombimg Arab civilians in 2006.

Further, Arab/Islamic terrorism won't end until there's peace between the Palestinians and Israelis. The Palestinians must have their own state. The Israelis are militarily dominant, uber dominant. Terrorism is the ideology and methodology of the weak--and the oppressed. Take away the oppression, or make them militarily equal, then the Palestinians and their Arab bethren won't resort to terroism. Remember, the US is on the side of Israel; the US is has the most powerful military ever! You don't fight people head on (conventionally) who are overwhelmingly stronger than you: You must go asymmetrical. Think of the "path of least resistance". The answer then is: TERRORISM.

US has military bases in other countries too? True. Duh! But many countries resort to terrorism too, insurgency, asymmetrical warfare, etc., and sometimes even suicide terrorism/martydom. But, the thing about the Arabs is that their religion has this nifty little idea: Jihad. Again, think of "the path of least resistance". The religion paves a way already, so why not take it. Most cultures/religions do not have this. (Perhaps the WWII Japanese come the closest--but that was culture and not religion.)

Further, for the Arabs, in the past, since the time of the Crusades to the colonial era and now to the neo-imperialistic age, they've always rallied around their religions/religious leaders as a way to fight the outsiders/infidels/oppressors. Again think of "the path of least resistance".

To summarize: the path of least resistance pushes the to their current form of terrorism in three different ways.

1. Their foe has overwhelming technological superiority. => Go asymmetrical
2. History => Turn to Islam (other cultures would turn to Marxism-Leninism which is anti-religion)
3. Islam => Jihad

Note that 1,2 & 3 are mutually consistent, if you will.

Lastly, it was the zionist Jews who introduced the concept of martyrdom and terrorism into the Mideast in the 1930's. The Stern Gang, the Haganah, Lehi, et al who were the first terrorist organizations of the Mideast. They bomb hotels, etc., killing innocent civilians. Many of the members of the Stern Gang and the Haganah went on to become the top Israeli leaders when the state of Israel was formed. The Arabs then copied the art of terrorism from the Jews, who were killing them, willy nilly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

Talk about blowback.

I agree the USA's unconditional support of Israel is a major problem. Israel's birth was in large part due to terrorist tactics against England by Jewish fanatics.
I disagree that terrorism by Muslim extremists will end with Israel, or with the USA if both countries were to suddenly be destroyed. Iraq and the terrorist attacks on the civilian population prove that I am correct. The terrorism in Thailand, Egypt, palestine etc all demonstrate that in reality as long as we keep making excuses for them the terrorists will continue doing what they do best. That would be killing innocent people. terrorism does not = Muslims.. Islamic extremists have just taken it to a much higher level. Public beheadings, car bombing funerals,resturants etc.
For the USA to clean up its image step 1 would be to distance themselves from Israel and actually hold them accountable for their brutal treatment of palestinians in an equal manner as it holds countries like Syria, Iran, and lybia accountable.

[VietGuy7]

My friends

Please do not blame Islam for what muslims do .

Please do not do to us any injustice

here is some translated verses of the Quran:-

I can also find verses of blood curlding violence in the Quran, the Bible and the Torah.

A very wise and progressive priest I saw on TV said of the Bible: "The Bible is like a person, if you torture it enough, it will say anything you want it to say."

For me, the so called Holy books of these three fraternally/"genetically" related religions is like s rorschach. People see whatever they want in them, depending on their predisposition for violence or peace.

---------------------------
tinman,

Remember, the Arabs are the keepers of Mohammed's flame, indeed his body, when they stand up and thoroughly Islamic condemn terrorism (suicide attacks, martyrdom), it will stop. Other types of terrorism will continue, of course.

But the Arabs will never until their is peace with Israel, and the US gets its bases out of their lands. The US, UK, France, etc. on their part, are oil fiends. They will never get out of the Mideast. Texaco et al are just makin' too much dough from it. Hence the cycle of violence will contintue until the oil runs out or the oil barrons and energy overlords of America take alternative energy seriously instead of giving it lip service purely for PR reasons. FYI, these iceholes have deliberately sabotaged alternative energy research for decades. Reagan defunded it back in the 1980's to the point where it was utterly impotent. Industry scientist have been going thru the motions, rather than do real "moon shot" or "Manhattan Project" type of Herculean research.