Are You A Hardcore Gamer Or Casual Gamer?, poll Options

[Chicken_Wing]

systems i used to own...

sega master system
sega genesis
sega cd (pos)
sega 32x (pos)
sega game gear
nes
snes
n64
turbo graphix 16
playstation 1
panasonic 3DO
gameboy color

systems i currently own...

xbox
gamecube
playstation 2
dreamcast
gameboy advance
pc

types of game, i enjoy playing are.... FPS, sports, RTS and RPG.

games i currently plays online, battlefield vietnam, UT2004 and americas army.

This post has been edited by Chicken_Wing: Jul 23 2004, 10:19 AM

[Puggles]

Could you give me a defintion of each?

[Goobers]

i refuse to vote... it's discrimination!!!! lol..

i'm middle of the road.

i had:
NES (broke)
SNES (tossed)
PS (gave to nephew)

I have:
GB (original... but kinda broken)
PS2
Xbox
and PC!!!

games i have? FPS, tactical FPS, RTS, RPG, Racing, fighters, simulations... i'd list them all... but hard remembering some of the older ones.

[Chicken_Wing]

Could you give me a defintion of each?

definition...

Going hardcore

Casual gamers bring in the dollars, but it's the gaming geeks that create the buzz
June 4, 2004: 4:57 PM EDT



NEW YORK (CNN/Money) – Imagine an industry where your most loyal customers are also your biggest detractors. They can be abusive, demanding and are almost always impossible to please, yet without their blessing, you're as good as doomed.

Welcome to the gaming world.

Hardcore gamers only make up between 20-25 percent of the industry's annual software sales, but the buzz enthusiasts create can turn a moderate hit into a monster.


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"If you can tap into a vein of interest that they have, then you've got a high probability of having a commercial success on your hands," said John Taylor, an analyst with Arcadia Research. "And if that spills into the mass market, then you've got an overwhelming success."

Need proof? Look no further than "Grand Theft Auto III". When Take Two (TTWO: Research, Estimates)'s game came on the scene, with a revolutionary style of play, core gamers liked what they saw – and they began talking. Before long, it was readily apparent that casual gamers were listening.

"When 'Grand Theft Auto III' was originally released, no one had any idea it was going to be near as large as it was," said Taylor. "It took six to eight weeks before people realized something unusual was happening and that there was crossover appeal to that game."

To date, "Grand Theft Auto III" has sold more than 10.5 million copies.

Traditionally, as the gaming industry enters the back half of a console generation, publisher focus shifts to the mass market. But things appear to be different this cycle. While they're hardly neglecting the mass audience, major publishers are also redoubling efforts to appeal to enthusiasts.


THQ is targeting a different audience with 'Full Spectrum Warrior'
THQ (THQI: Research, Estimates) is the latest to reach out. "Full Spectrum Warrior," a tactical military action game released earlier this week, is a significant departure from the company's traditional line of family-friendly games, such as "Finding Nemo" and "SpongeBob Squarepants".

Later this year, THQ will release "Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War," a strategy game set in a violent, post-apocalyptic world and the first person shooter "S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl".

"We see this as just an expansion," THQ president and CEO Brian Farrell told me. "A lot of hardware is sold sub-$149. We feel we already own that consumer. ... Our strategy is to attack the core gamer aggressively."

Electronic Arts (ERTS: Research, Estimates) seems to be making a greater effort to turn enthusiast heads as well. Since 1996, the company has only released a dozen titles that earned an M (or Mature) rating – publishing none since early 2002. That run will likely end later this year with the release of "Def Jam: Fight for NY," a hip-hop flavored fighting game.

M-rated games typically appeal more to hardcore gamers than a mass audience. And EA's renewed interest in them doesn't stop with "Def Jam". The company has several other M-rated titles in the works, according to Bruce McMillan, executive vice president and general manager of EA's worldwide studios.

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"You're going to see more M-rated games in our future," he said. "We have the infrastructure in place and we're going to walk very slowly into the arena. ... [but] we're not going to get into gratuitous sex or violence."

There are smaller publishers, which cater almost exclusively to the hardcore crowd. Similarly, some of the industry's biggest developers make a distinct effort to establish relations with enthusiasts. Valve Software (makers of "Half-Life") and Epic Games (which created the "Unreal" franchise), for example, both work closely with their most enthusiastic fans, helping them create mods – or user-made add-ons to a game.

id Software may take the prize for community relations, though. The team behind the "Doom" and "Quake" series holds a free, annual gathering called "QuakeCon" for its fans, who are almost exclusively hardcore gamers. Last year, 4,000 of those fans turned out for the event and even more are expected this year. (It took less than six minutes for 1,000 hardcore gamers to register for QuakeCon 2004.)

QuakeCon is a mecca for the hardcore, with a 24-hour gaming room, big money tournaments, workshops and parties. The highlight for fans, though, is a session with id's developers, who answer questions and often show clips from forthcoming games.


More gaming news and commentary? Click above.

For the last few years, those clips have been of "Doom 3," which is nearing completion after a four-year development cycle. This year, most fans were hoping to get their first glimpse of "Quake 4," which is being developed (under id's supervision) by Raven Software. Unfortunately, they're going to have to keep waiting. id CEO Todd Hollenshead said there are no plans to show the game at this year's QuakeCon.

"We've been happy with what they've done, but it's too early to show," added id's lead designer Tim Willits.

The disappointment of not seeing the game could bring out the ugly side of the hardcore crowd, though. Hollenshead said it comes with the territory.

"The guys who love you the most are also the people who will blast you the hardest if you piss them off," he said. "We've been trying not to whip people into a frenzy with ['Quake 4']. When we show the game, we want it to be something that's really impressive for the people who have been waiting for it."

-cnn



The Coder's Corner

Casual vs. Core Gamers

Now that our game is drawing to a close, I'm making good on my promise to myself to catch up on my reading (game reading, of course). Particularly, I've been trying to soak up as much information and advice on game design as my tiring and quivering retinas can handle. This weekend I stumbled across an article (from last year around this time) that I thought was interesting. But even more so, this article made me immediately think about you, my fellow Gone Gold readers. It was an article written by Ernest Adams called "Designer's Notebook - Casual vs. Core".

I encourage you all to read the article in its entirety as I will just be using snippets from it and I may misrepresent Mr. Adams' work by taking it out of its original context. (All text from this aforementioned article will be indented and in orange type).

What is a Casual Gamer? Core Gamer?

Mr. Adams prefaces his article with a disclaimer of sorts. He writes:

… by dividing gamers into "core" and "casual," I know I'm creating a phony dichotomy. In reality, there are as many types of gamer as there are gamers. But I'm going to talk about it anyway, not because I think it's accurate, but because it has become part of the publisher's mental model of the market during the past year or so. I have sat in on any number of design discussions where ideas were dismissed as being "too core" or "too casual." This distinction is now firmly fixed in the marketing mind, so as designers, we're stuck with it. If we're going to use it, we'd better think about what we mean.

This is true. As people we inherently prefer to classify things. If possible, our "binary" tendencies long to pare a broad subject down into two all encompassing groups that represent all entities … black or white, right or wrong, man or woman, Quake or UT, Counterstrike or Tribes ;-) … all of this is somewhat silly. To me a gamer is a gamer, and I'm thankful for every last one of them. But it brings up a valid subject as to how games are marketed and what the decision making process is for whether a game will even see the light of day. More often than not a publisher will be reluctant to pick up a game because it is too advanced or the learning curve is too high (Sub Command is a perfect example of this). This all is a result of the publisher's insatiable need for the "casual gamer" and his/her hard-earned dough. It's entirely reasonable, because without those coveted sales many game companies cannot survive (they just can't rely on the hardcore gamer alone). So in order to target these budding gamers, we must first figure out who the casual gamer is and what they want out of a game.

To classify a casual gamer, Mr. Adams describes what they are not (describing a core gamer):

To start with, let's look at core gamers. What characterizes a core gamer? Well, they play games a lot. A lot. For core gamers, game software is their favorite entertainment medium, surpassing television and the movies. Core gamers spend a great deal of their leisure time playing games, and if they're not playing, they're reading magazines about games, surfing the web for information on games, or hanging around the game store. They write walkthroughs and build websites devoted to their favorite games. They discuss them on bulletin boards. It goes on and on.

For core gamers, playing games is more than light entertainment. It's a hobby, and it requires dedication. A good analogy from the non-game world is building and flying model airplanes. In addition to the time you spend actually flying the airplanes, there's a lot of time spent on building them, obtaining plans and parts for them, and getting together with other modeling buffs. Core gamers and airplane modelers also spend a lot of money on their hobbies - much more than people spend on the occasional trip to the movies or the video store. They're not only spending their leisure time, they're also spending a lot of their leisure dollars.

A casual gamer, on the other hand:

The casual gamer is not prepared to spend that much time or money on it. The casual gamer wants to play games the same way she watches TV or reads a book: sit down, do it for a while, then stop and do something else. She doesn't want games to consume her life, she wants them to entertain her for a while.

… the casual gamer plays for the sheer enjoyment of playing the game. If the game stops being enjoyable or becomes frustrating, the casual gamer will stop playing. Obviously the casual gamer enjoys a challenge and wants to win, but the old cliché applies: life is a journey, not a destination. For the casual gamer, playing games must be entertaining, whether it's competitive or not.

After I read the above paragraphs… I took a moment and again reflected on the implications of all of this. Companies can't survive without the casual gamer … the casual gamer just wants to be entertained for a short while … developers are forced to make games that are "easily accessible and easily detachable" (by detachable I mean that the player can more easily de-immerse himself/herself at any time).

But for me, from a design standpoint, this distinction is paramount:

Games can become less specialized - the casual player will often choose to advance quickly through a game to approach the next level or the next cut scene. Therefore the "little things" like interactive game objects, secret rooms, Easter eggs, or hidden mini-games are lost on them because they will not take the time to look. Unless these features are blatantly obvious or in the direct path of the player, they will most likely be wasted on a casual gamer. This wasn't a big deal a few years ago when game budgets allowed for programming and design hours to implement these little things. But now that schedules are getting tighter and costs are being cut, something has to give.

Games will become easier and shorter - What the hardcore gamer deems to be challenging the casual gamer finds frustrating. Core gamers prefer their games to be long and difficult. Casual gamers don't mind if a game is lengthy as long as the game play remains compelling, varying, and keeps their attention throughout.

This is somewhat disconcerting because one of my favorite parts of console and computer gaming is that they are decidedly different. Many design elements relative to interface and game play mechanics come into play when designing both types of games. This is a good thing. But when the casual gamer wants to play a game he wants it to be easy to start up, easy to get into, and easy to put down. To me, these features are what a console game excels at (with the exception of putting them down, as I have played many a console game to the wee hours of the morn :-) Console games are for the most part "stateless" and persistent environments or character development is more difficult to implement within given memory restrictions (again, there are exceptions). And though this is often not important to the casual gamer, to the hardcore gamer this is unacceptable. Another issue is that there are no video drivers, no patches, and often fewer bugs (although there are exceptions obviously). This appeals to the casual gamer, and immediately puts the PC at a disadvantage to consoles for that casual gaming dollar.

Mr. Adams asserts:

"To design a game for casual gamers, you have to challenge their minds at least as much as their motor skills".

In my opinion PC games excel at this, but since many of the more "cerebral games" are just quickly looked at and deemed somewhat unapproachable by the computer newbie, they are often disregarded (System Shock 2 comes to mind).

So where does Mr. Adams end up in his gaming taxonomy?

… Well, the truth is that I'm not really a core gamer or a casual gamer. I told you that dichotomy was a phony one; I've got some things in common with core gamers and others in common with casual gamers. Furthermore, I'm a game developer, which changes the rules. I've made this my career, so I must care a heck of a lot about games - more even than most core gamers do. On the other hand, I play a lot of games at work, and when I go home I want to do something I can't do at work - read or watch TV or go out somewhere. I do play games in my leisure time, of course, but mostly I play them at work. Game developers themselves aren't always the best model for understanding our market. We're atypical, because we are by definition more interested in games than our customers are.

Once again, I agree. I choose to do other things besides play computer games. I played basketball in high school and briefly in college and when there still is some daylight (i.e. I'm not here working :-) I enjoy a quick pickup game. I also am a golfing FANATIC and get a quick 18 holes in whenever I can. Does this mean I'm not a hardcode gamer? I don't think that it does.

But to be honest, I don't think it matters. If you love to play games, and you appreciate what makes a good one, then you are equally valuable as the guy that downloads all the mods and updates. You both put down your money and you both want to enjoy yourselves (albeit they may be two entirely different means to that end). Hardcore gamers that promote gaming in general are the valuable ones to me. And the gamer that spreads the word of a solid game to other gamers or even finds a way to indoctrinate a non-gamer into the world of "digital dementia", those are the ones that should be commended as they are furthering our cause and ensuring its future existence.

Where will this industry end up 5 years from now? Hopefully not too far from where its been. I think we have a good thing going here, and I pray to the gaming gods every day that Consumer Darwinism doesn't claim computer gaming as another one of its victims. But only you, the "gamer", will decide that. Whether you are a casual or core gamer is of no consequence to me. It's just too bad that it holds so much importance to the publisher and their "bottom line".

So which am I? To be honest, it doesn't matter. I just want to play! ;-)

-hardcore vs. casual


to me definition a "hardcore gamer" is the one who not biased to one system or certain type of game. they the one that deman bigger, better game every year.

definition of a "casual gamers" is someone who do not follow gaming much and just looking forward to playing FF or certain action game... its like just give them the game and they'll be happy.

This post has been edited by Chicken_Wing: Jul 22 2004, 03:52 PM

[Goobers]

to me definition a "hardcore gamer" is the one who not biased to one system or certain type of game. they the one that deman bigger, better game every year.

definition of a "casual gamers" is someone who do not follow gaming much and just looking forward to playing FF or certain action game... its like just give them the game and they'll be happy.

FF as in Final Fantasy? dood... FF is AWESOME!!!! lol

but yeah... gotta have bigger better faster game!!!! come on!!! supposedly GTA:SA won't have the pop up issues that GTA:VC and GTA3 had...

ability to switch between arcade control or full on real world traction in racing games with damage modeling (and ADVERSE EFFECTS)!!! stuff like that.

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Goobers: Jul 22 2004, 04:14 PM

[IneRtial dRift]

im hella hardcore gamer..

i game for life.. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[Chicken_Wing]

to me definition a "hardcore gamer" is the one who not biased to one system or certain type of game. they the one that deman bigger, better game every year.

definition of a "casual gamers" is someone who do not follow gaming much and just looking forward to playing FF or certain action game... its like just give them the game and they'll be happy.

FF as in Final Fantasy? dood... FF is AWESOME!!!! lol

but yeah... gotta have bigger better faster game!!!! come on!!! supposedly GTA:SA won't have the pop up issues that GTA:VC and GTA3 had...

ability to switch between arcade control or full on real world traction in racing games with damage modeling (and ADVERSE EFFECTS)!!! stuff like that.

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

just like EA sports games.. same freakin game every years, but it still sales million of copies arghhhh. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/madgo.gif)

FF series is getting old (i only played to FF7, which IMHO is one of the best RPG of all time), have you try star war KOTOR or morrowind?

[Goobers]

i tried KOTOR... couldn't really get into it.

haven't tried Morrowind yet... maybe someday i'll check it out.

i dunno... i didn't like FF7 as much i liked FF3US (japanese FF6)... dont' get me wrong, i liked it... but i don't consider it the best like everyone else does... just my opinion.

[Puggles]

hardcore gamer then

[YManchun]

Systems I had:

sega master

N64

PS2

[chynagongju]

Don't have enough time to be Hardcore. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_sad.gif)

Own...

SNES
PS
PS2
XBox
Gameboy Pocket
Gameboy Advance SP

[Bchung]

i am a hardcore gamer, i used to play like 4-8 hours a day, i didnt even sleep just to play.

but i only own a pc, and those old segas, and nintendos, and DC. Dude you guys are soo rich..........

[Fatality]

i'm kinda on and off, currently its casual since i gotta study hard for my last year of high school. After i complete the exams, plan to buy a new PC, get DSL again and play games 25/7 (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[fallenone]

im a casual i dont play alot no more

[chynagongju]

i'm kinda on and off, currently its casual since i gotta study hard for my last year of high school. After i complete the exams, plan to buy a new PC, get DSL again and play games 25/7 (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

Hahaha 25/7... (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

For college I think after I get my desktop I'm going to get addicted to Gunbound or Ragnarok or something...

[grd]

Video Games = Crack. Enough said.

[EmSkittles19]

I am soooo hardcore, I own a ps2.. gamecube... and that's that.

[Jasel]

Used to be hardcore. Everquest all the time. Now I dont play any games (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Nung1]

i'm kinda on and off, currently its casual since i gotta study hard for my last year of high school. After i complete the exams, plan to buy a new PC, get DSL again and play games 25/7 (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

Hahaha 25/7... (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

For college I think after I get my desktop I'm going to get addicted to Gunbound or Ragnarok or something...

Ragnarok may not be the wise choice unless u are willing to pay.

but yeah I play to win, and i'll try anything and try to beat everything.

mostly a strategy, RPG, and FPS nut, but i play my share of sports, and puzzle games.


Primary gaing-
PC
PS2
---------------------------------
everything else-
PSx
GB
VB (virtual boy)
Atari (handheld)
NES

[Chicken_Wing]

i'm kinda on and off, currently its casual since i gotta study hard for my last year of high school. After i complete the exams, plan to buy a new PC, get DSL again and play games 25/7 (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

Hahaha 25/7... (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

For college I think after I get my desktop I'm going to get addicted to Gunbound or Ragnarok or something...

Ragnarok may not be the wise choice unless u are willing to pay.

but yeah I play to win, and i'll try anything and try to beat everything.

mostly a strategy, RPG, and FPS nut, but i play my share of sports, and puzzle games.


Primary gaing-
PC
PS2
---------------------------------
everything else-
PSx
GB
VB (virtual boy)
Atari (handheld)
NES

virtual boy

haahha you feel rite into nintendo hyped machine (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)


Atari (handheld)

was that the lynx? they lynx and sega game gear was way ahead of it time (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)