客家kejia(hakka), HuaXia or Dong Yi racial types Options

[浪淘音]

i've always told people that Kejia(hakka) were the most racially pure Han Chinese of the south because they've mostly refrained from mixing with the various aboriginal people of the south. Despite this, i have not gathered and observed enough samples to say for sure other than my mother's side of the family(Father's side and me are from Henan)

i was wondering if any Kejia(Hakka) members of this board would entertain my curiosity by posting their pics for me to analyze

[rudeboy]

i've always told people that Kejia(hakka) were the most racially pure Han Chinese of the south because they've mostly refrained from mixing with the various aboriginal people of the south. Despite this, i have not gathered and observed enough samples to say for sure other than my mother's side of the family(Father's side and me are from Henan)

i was wondering if any Kejia(Hakka) members of this board would entertain my curiosity by posting their pics for me to analyze

You do know that both groups (Henan and Hakka) are clustered genetically with SE Asian groups?

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/20/11763

PubMed citation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...9&dopt=Abstract

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

Considering Henan is the Huaxia homeland, either the Huaxia were closer to Viets or there was some population transference in the past.

Also, the Dong Yi were considered rivals of the Huaxia and considered non-Xia/Shang people even warring the Warring States era. According to a book about archaic Chinese history, there was extensive contact and political closeness (and I think also cultural affinity) between Yi and Wu and Yue. All of this just shows you how shallow and brittle preconceived/accepted ideas are.

This post has been edited by rudeboy: Jul 26 2004, 12:26 PM

[浪淘音]

i've always told people that Kejia(hakka) were the most racially pure Han Chinese of the south because they've mostly refrained from mixing with the various aboriginal people of the south. Despite this, i have not gathered and observed enough samples to say for sure other than my mother's side of the family(Father's side and me are from Henan)

i was wondering if any Kejia(Hakka) members of this board would entertain my curiosity by posting their pics for me to analyze

You do know that both groups (Henan and Hakka) are clustered genetically with SE Asian groups?

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/20/11763

PubMed citation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...9&dopt=Abstract

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

Considering Henan is the Huaxia homeland, either the Huaxia were closer to Viets or there was some population transference in the past.

Also, the Dong Yi were considered rivals of the Huaxia and considered non-Xia/Shang people even warring the Warring States era. According to a book about archaic Chinese history, there was extensive contact and political closeness (and I think also cultural affinity) between Yi and Wu and Yue. All of this just shows you how shallow and brittle preconceived/accepted ideas are.

The word Dong Yi 東夷 was a general term for people that lived east of the traditional HuaXia homelands.a branch of the Dong Yi were absorbed into the HuaXia as early as Huang Di's time. The HuaXia occupied the western part of Henan and eastern part of Shaanxi, the Dong Yi occupied the eastern part of Henan and parts of Shandong.

by as early as Zhou(before the warring states), all the eastern parts of China proper's Dong Yi population had been absorbed a long time ago. Tungus people to the northeast were also considered Dong Yi, remember

i've read that article before, they took ONE sample from Henan(second most populated province) meaning that could have easily been a migrant from the south with too much austro blood.

[rudeboy]

i've always told people that Kejia(hakka) were the most racially pure Han Chinese of the south because they've mostly refrained from mixing with the various aboriginal people of the south. Despite this, i have not gathered and observed enough samples to say for sure other than my mother's side of the family(Father's side and me are from Henan)

i was wondering if any Kejia(Hakka) members of this board would entertain my curiosity by posting their pics for me to analyze

You do know that both groups (Henan and Hakka) are clustered genetically with SE Asian groups?

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/20/11763

PubMed citation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...9&dopt=Abstract

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

Considering Henan is the Huaxia homeland, either the Huaxia were closer to Viets or there was some population transference in the past.

Also, the Dong Yi were considered rivals of the Huaxia and considered non-Xia/Shang people even warring the Warring States era. According to a book about archaic Chinese history, there was extensive contact and political closeness (and I think also cultural affinity) between Yi and Wu and Yue. All of this just shows you how shallow and brittle preconceived/accepted ideas are.

The word Dong Yi 東夷 was a general term for people that lived east of the traditional HuaXia homelands.a branch of the Dong Yi were absorbed into the HuaXia as early as Huang Di's time. The HuaXia occupied the western part of Henan and eastern part of Shaanxi, the Dong Yi occupied the eastern part of Henan and parts of Shandong.

by as early as Zhou(before the warring states), all the eastern parts of China proper's Dong Yi population had been absorbed a long time ago. Tungus people to the northeast were also considered Dong Yi, remember

i've read that article before, they took ONE sample from Henan(second most populated province) meaning that could have easily been a migrant from the south with too much austro blood.

Da Nile is a big river hard to get over...
It's always been northern people moving south. You're explanation is possible but unlikely. Also, what if they do a survey of ancient DNA in Henan and find out that the Huaxia were genetically "asutro"? That would be a cruel irony, wouldn't it? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) And what if the Huaxia were closer to "asutros", will you start being anti-Chinese or pro-"austro", I wonder? Fascinating.
Face it, you're half Hakka and half Henanese, which makes you a full-blown "asutro".
Plus, your stance is illogical at this point anyway since southern Chinese cluster with you know who, unless you wanna be anti-southern Chinese...a full half of the population...not to mention most of the Chinese government's higher-up leadership, cultural figures, intellectuals, tycoons...your own relatives...your're own parents...not to mention yourself (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

You're an oxymoron...a Jewish Nazi

This post has been edited by rudeboy: Jul 26 2004, 01:46 PM

[浪淘音]

i've always told people that Kejia(hakka) were the most racially pure Han Chinese of the south because they've mostly refrained from mixing with the various aboriginal people of the south. Despite this, i have not gathered and observed enough samples to say for sure other than my mother's side of the family(Father's side and me are from Henan)

i was wondering if any Kejia(Hakka) members of this board would entertain my curiosity by posting their pics for me to analyze

You do know that both groups (Henan and Hakka) are clustered genetically with SE Asian groups?

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/20/11763

PubMed citation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...9&dopt=Abstract

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

Considering Henan is the Huaxia homeland, either the Huaxia were closer to Viets or there was some population transference in the past.

Also, the Dong Yi were considered rivals of the Huaxia and considered non-Xia/Shang people even warring the Warring States era. According to a book about archaic Chinese history, there was extensive contact and political closeness (and I think also cultural affinity) between Yi and Wu and Yue. All of this just shows you how shallow and brittle preconceived/accepted ideas are.

The word Dong Yi 東夷 was a general term for people that lived east of the traditional HuaXia homelands.a branch of the Dong Yi were absorbed into the HuaXia as early as Huang Di's time. The HuaXia occupied the western part of Henan and eastern part of Shaanxi, the Dong Yi occupied the eastern part of Henan and parts of Shandong.

by as early as Zhou(before the warring states), all the eastern parts of China proper's Dong Yi population had been absorbed a long time ago. Tungus people to the northeast were also considered Dong Yi, remember

i've read that article before, they took ONE sample from Henan(second most populated province) meaning that could have easily been a migrant from the south with too much austro blood.

Da Nile is a big river hard to get over...
It's always been northern people moving south. You're explanation is possible but unlikely. Also, what if they do a survey of ancient DNA in Henan and find out that the Huaxia were genetically "asutro"? That would be a cruel irony, wouldn't it? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) And what if the Huaxia were closer to "asutros", will you start being anti-Chinese or pro-"austro", I wonder? Fascinating.
Face it, you're half Hakka and half Henanese, which makes you a full-blown "asutro".
Plus, your stance is illogical at this point anyway since southern Chinese cluster with you know who, unless you wanna be anti-southern Chinese...a full half of the population...not to mention most of the Chinese government's higher-up leadership, cultural figures, intellectuals, tycoons...your own relatives...your're own parents...not to mention yourself (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

You're an oxymoron...a Jewish Nazi

ancient HuaXia/Dong Yi DNA is austro? hardly, nor is the modern population. my dad's side of the family exhibits pure HuaXia(long face, narrow nose, long legs, broad shoulders, thin lips, rectangular shaped skull) while my mom's side exhibits clear Dong yi features(small eyes, round skull,long legs, flatter face,pale skin)

austros on the other hand, definitely do not have any of those features.

migration from the south into the north is not as rare as you think. Either way, that sample takes from ONE person in Henan without regard to his ancestry or how many generations he has been there.

have you seen northern Chinese and your own people? or even Southern Chinese and your own people

i am not anti-southern either. i just feel it was a mistake not to clean up southern China before migration into it.

don't turn this thread into a flame (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

[holamon]

No offense, but some of the hakka people in SE Asia are the most negrito looking people compare to other Chinese groups there.

[浪淘音]

No offense, but some of the hakka people in SE Asia are the most negrito looking people compare to other Chinese groups there.

yes, IN southeast asia

i'm sure the austros on this board will try to make Kejia look negrito to use against my mother's side of the family. very predicatable

Kejia migrated from northern China and for a long time remained very isolated from the rest of the population which is why they're called 客家 which means "guest"

This post has been edited by 浪淘音: Jul 26 2004, 02:39 PM

[gwun gwun]

hakka! i think im hakka, though not sure...

[Colordevil]

hakka! i think im hakka, though not sure...

um, (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)
Anyways, hakka rules, cuz i am one (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[rudeboy]

ancient HuaXia/Dong Yi DNA is austro? hardly, nor is the modern population.

How do you know what the ancient Huaxia or Dongyi are like? Have you ever read these articles about the skulls they found in that era, which approximates the skulls of modern Chinese of the south? Also, to be all objective, there isn't that big a difference between someone from Henan and someone from Vietnam in the bigger picture. You make it seem like they are from different planets. You're being idiotic.

my dad's side of the family exhibits pure HuaXia(long face, narrow nose, long legs, broad shoulders, thin lips, rectangular shaped skull) while my mom's side exhibits clear Dong yi features(small eyes, round skull,long legs, flatter face,pale skin)

Didn't you say your dad is half Manchu? Also, given the historical fact that northern China has seen it's population depleteted many times due to famine, massacre, and southern migration, and settlement by the Altaic races, how can you be sure that what you think you describe is that of the Huaxia or Dongyi?

Also, most of the Hakka I've seen look more Viet than Beijinger. If Hakka are so pure, then the original Hua were closer genetically to Vietnamese because Hakka clusters with the south. Or Hakka maybe are a mix of south and north.

You also seem to think that there is a correlation between appearance and genetics, and that's not always the case.

austros on the other hand, definitely do not have any of those features.

Who are these austros you keep talking about? There is any standard to your definition?

migration from the south into the north is not as rare as you think. Either way, that sample takes from ONE person in Henan without regard to his ancestry or how many generations he has been there.

One person? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif) Da Nile is a big river hard to get over.

have you seen northern Chinese and your own people? or even Southern Chinese and your own people

My own people??? What do you think I am? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

i am not anti-southern either. i just feel it was a mistake not to clean up southern China before migration into it.

Well, the north is better? When Chu took samples from Beijing, Inner Mongolia, Gansu, and Manchuria to represent northern Chinese, it's kind of weird. Beijing was basically established by the Mongols and it's population is basically descended from all of the Altaics (Jurchen, Toba, Mongol). Yes, these people are the real Chinese. To think that mixed Altaics being more Chinese than mixed Yue is odd. What an irony that the historic enemies of the Chinese have now become the epitome of what's Chinese.

I just find it funny how almost of the nantionalists here are all part Manchu or Mongol, and try to create the impression that most Chinese have a great love of the Altaic peoples, when to most Chinese Mongols are more foreign than Vietnamese.

This post has been edited by rudeboy: Jul 26 2004, 06:13 PM

[浪淘音]

ancient HuaXia/Dong Yi DNA is austro? hardly, nor is the modern population.

How do you know what the ancient Huaxia or Dongyi are like? Have you ever read these articles about the skulls they found in that era, which approximates the skulls of modern Chinese of the south? Also, to be all objective, there isn't that big a difference between someone from Henan and someone from Vietnam in the bigger picture. You make it seem like they are from different planets. You're being idiotic.

my dad's side of the family exhibits pure HuaXia(long face, narrow nose, long legs, broad shoulders, thin lips, rectangular shaped skull) while my mom's side exhibits clear Dong yi features(small eyes, round skull,long legs, flatter face,pale skin)

Didn't you say your dad is half Manchu? Also, given the historical fact that northern China has seen it's population depleteted many times due to famine, massacre, and southern migration, and settlement by the Altaic races, how can you be sure that what you think you describe is that of the Huaxia or Dongyi?

Also, most of the Hakka I've seen look more Viet than Beijinger. If Hakka are so pure, then the original Hua were closer genetically to Vietnamese because Hakka clusters with the south. Or Hakka maybe are a mix of south and north.

You also seem to think that there is a correlation between appearance and genetics, and that's not always the case.

austros on the other hand, definitely do not have any of those features.

Who are these austros you keep talking about? There is any standard to your definition?

migration from the south into the north is not as rare as you think. Either way, that sample takes from ONE person in Henan without regard to his ancestry or how many generations he has been there.

One person? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif) Da Nile is a big river hard to get over.

have you seen northern Chinese and your own people? or even Southern Chinese and your own people

My own people??? What do you think I am? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

i am not anti-southern either. i just feel it was a mistake not to clean up southern China before migration into it.

Well, the north is better? When Chu took samples from Beijing, Inner Mongolia, Gansu, and Manchuria to represent northern Chinese, it's kind of weird. Beijing was basically established by the Mongols and it's population is basically descended from all of the Altaics (Jurchen, Toba, Mongol). Yes, these people are the real Chinese. To think that mixed Altaics being more Chinese than mixed Yue is odd. What an irony that the historic enemies of the Chinese have now become the epitome of what's Chinese.

I just find it funny how almost of the nantionalists here are all part Manchu or Mongol, and try to create the impression that most Chinese have a great love of the Altaic peoples, when to most Chinese Mongols are more foreign than Vietnamese.

i'm 1/16 Manchu, yes. my great grandmother was Manchu

well, first of all, we'd rather be mixed with Manchu and Mongol than Viet/austro people. ask any Chinese, we consider them to be a part of greater China especially the Manchus since they're very sinicized

theres no definite proof that an "altaic" race exists. Altaic is a language family. Mongols are turkic in origin, Manchus are Tungus, koreans/Japanese descended from proto samoyedic artic races. i don't have any altaic blood because theres no such thing

Tungus people are related to the Dong Yi which is one of two branches that pure Hans relate to.

i've heard multiple "hakkas look like this, like that". i've heard white supremacists say Hakkas are caucasoid in origin. its all BS. All i have to do is look at all my cousins, aunts, uncles on my mother's side to see NONE of them have jutting jaws, portruding foreheads, high slopping skulls, dark skin,deep eye sockets and other undesirable traits

what proof do you have that ancient HuaXia are related to austronesians? HuaXia are related to Tibetic people so they're the best way to describe what the ancient ones looked like. Do you have any idea how different the climate of YOUR people are from the ones of HuaXia/Dong Yi related races.

[supernovasp]

It's a shame that Manchurian were once proud people are now completely sinocized.

[Bchung]

my grandmother is a hakka.

[Nam Quoc Son Ha]

It's a shame that Manchurian were once proud people are now completely sinocized.

And they love being Chinese puppies too. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_neutral.gif)

It's a shame not many Manchurians today call themselves Manchurians. Rather, they call themselves "Chinese".

Chinese is a word that is associated with the Han people. Where do you think the word "China" come from? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

But anyway, Han Chinese are more than happy to label all ethnic minorities as Chinese so they have more legitimacy over those people and the lands they've conquered.

[Bchung]

well maybe before Manchuria, conquered china, they were already sinocized? Unlike the mongols who were sinocized when they took over china.

This post has been edited by Bchung: Jul 26 2004, 11:22 PM

[浪淘音]

well maybe before Manchuria, conquered china, they were already sinocized?

exactly, they adopted Chinese script as early as when they were referred to as the Jurchens. they admired Chinese culture early on

i'm proud to have Manchus as part of Greater China

[MING-LOYALIST]

well maybe before Manchuria, conquered china, they were already sinocized?

exactly, they adopted Chinese script as early as when they were referred to as the Jurchens. they admired Chinese culture early on

i'm proud to have Manchus as part of Greater China

It's funny how sometimes I feel northerners are more proud and nationalistic then southerners.
It could be that northerners had lived in hardship in a region dominated by Fotresses ,Strongholds and the Great Wall while southerners had wealth , peace and whore houses.

Anyway hakka people can't be true Han Chinese, and Henan province is melting pot , everyone there is a mix(Han Chinese mix from diffrent regions).

[Hakka]

My fathers side is Hakka.

What is the obsession with finding the purest Han traits? Is this not like the search for an aryan super race?

[浪淘音]

well maybe before Manchuria, conquered china, they were already sinocized?

exactly, they adopted Chinese script as early as when they were referred to as the Jurchens. they admired Chinese culture early on

i'm proud to have Manchus as part of Greater China

It's funny how sometimes I feel northerners are more proud and nationalistic then southerners.
It could be that northerners had lived in hardship in a region dominated by Fotresses ,Strongholds and the Great Wall while southerners had wealth , peace and whore houses.

Anyway hakka people can't be true Han Chinese, and Henan province is melting pot , everyone there is a mix(Han Chinese mix from diffrent regions).

lol yeah, southerners are not politically reliable (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[Shanghaibabe@Tor...]

are all of you who answered this post are Kejia ren ??? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)

I am just wondering that is all-roll