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Chinese H-8 Stealth Bomber to start trials, China's answer to the U.S B-2
millersdude
post Dec 14 2007, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE(Mongol Warrior @ Dec 14 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]3367287[/snapback]
New design is good, blueprint is splendid! But please respect reality that China can't make such high tech material.
In fact, China even can't built it's jet fighter's engine, J-10 is a good example, most of it's engines were brought from Russia. If 603 institute can't make any material breakthrough on J-10's engine, let alone H-8's!


All the newer J-10s and J-11s are now using Chinese domestic-made jet engines because of the Russia government's complains about some China unauthorized uses of their jet engine parts and of their high pricey engines. I am not sure how is the Chinese jet engine performed though. Officially, China still hasn't disclosed much information about it But there are a lot of rumors about it though. Some said China jet engines are superior or in par with Russia and the USA/West. Others said they are inferior. Anyway, it is hard to tell until they fight against each others in the sky. In my own opinion, if China switched to use their own engines, this could mean the technologies between China and the West are not far off.
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baal
post Dec 14 2007, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE(millersdude @ Dec 14 2007, 09:41 AM) [snapback]3367461[/snapback]
All the newer J-10s and J-11s are now using Chinese domestic-made jet engines because of the Russia government's complains about some China unauthorized uses of their jet engine parts and of their high pricey engines. I am not sure how is the Chinese jet engine performed though. Officially, China still hasn't disclosed much information about it But there are a lot of rumors about it though. Some said China jet engines are superior or in par with Russia and the USA/West. Others said they are inferior. Anyway, it is hard to tell until they fight against each others in the sky. In my own opinion, if China switched to use their own engines, this could mean the technologies between China and the West are not far off.


Hope springs eternal.
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lilzz
post Dec 14 2007, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE(Mongol Warrior @ Dec 14 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]3367287[/snapback]
New design is good, blueprint is splendid! But please respect reality that China can't make such high tech material.
In fact, China even can't built it's jet fighter's engine, J-10 is a good example, most of it's engines were brought from Russia. If 603 institute can't make any material breakthrough on J-10's engine, let alone H-8's!


Mongol, here you go
The WS-10 or WS10 (Woshan 10), codename Taihang, is a turbofan engine, developed in the 1980s by the Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute, a design institute of the China Aviation Industry Corporation. it based on the USA CFM-56 engine, and can be considered a Chinese version of F110. After almost 20 years, it was finally installed by the People's Liberation Army Air Force in their Shenyang J-11 fighter aircraft, and possibly, Chengdu J-10.

The new fully FADEC WS-10A, reported to be an impressive 13,500kg thrust and 7.5 T/W ratio turbofan, could be in service in about 5 years. At the Zhuhai 2002 show a photo was released of a J-11 alleged to have been modified to test one WS-10A.[1]

Soon, the pipeline of WS-11, WS-12, WS-13 are going to rolling out like hotcakes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WS-10
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baal
post Dec 14 2007, 02:20 PM
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The PLA's high tech kinetic warfare projects would come to a screeching halt if America stopped all of its own projects. There would be nothing left to steal. On a serious note, does anyone really believe that the US is going to let the PLA catch up and surpass it? The PLA's only hope is asymmetric warfare. Better yet, how about mutual disarmament? But that would require you guys to zip up your pants.
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freewin2k
post Dec 14 2007, 02:27 PM
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War between nuclear powers are highly unlikely. We all know that USA is way ahead of China in many high technologies, but that does not stop China from develop its own. And once EU end its weapon embargo, i'm sure China will be able to purchase and work with those Countries in Europe, like France, Germany particular. China is really to spend up to 100 billion dollar immediately on weapon purchase once EU end embargo

( I heard France and Israel have been secretly selling many weapons to China)







QUOTE(baal @ Dec 14 2007, 02:20 PM) [snapback]3367650[/snapback]
The PLA's high tech kinetic warfare projects would come to a screeching halt if America stopped all of its own projects. There would be nothing left to steal. On a serious note, does anyone really believe that the US is going to let the PLA catch up and surpass it? The PLA's only hope is asymmetric warfare. Better yet, how about mutual disarmament? But that would require you guys to zip up your pants.


This post has been edited by freewin2k: Dec 14 2007, 02:47 PM
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baal
post Dec 14 2007, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE(freewin2k @ Dec 14 2007, 11:27 AM) [snapback]3367662[/snapback]
War between nuclear powers are highly unlikely. We all know that USA is way ahead of China in many high technologies, but that does not stop China from develop its own. And once EU end its weapon embargo, i'm sure China will be able to purchase and work with those Countries in Europe, like France, Germany particular. China is really to spend up to 100 billion dollar immediately on weapon purchase once EU end embargo

( I heard France and Israel have been secretly selling many weapons to China)


Well, I see that nobody is willing to zip up his pants and discuss serious disarmament.

Imo, war between nuclear powers is unlikely unless one of those powers develops a first strike capability. America is on the verge of developing a first strike capability. That's why disarmament talks should be initiated.

If the PRC was developing a stealth bomber it would be a closely guarded secret, not the subject of idle chatter.

There was talk about arms sales by the EU nations to China several years ago when EU-US relations were deteriorating. The sales didn't happen despite the temptation of making serious money. Why? Because the EU nations were informed they would lose all access to American military technology despite the NATO alliance. That won't change.
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Mongol Warrior
post Dec 14 2007, 09:31 PM
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The gap between China and USA on Jets is at least 30 years!
J-10 = F-16's original type.
Plus, China rely themselves too much on Russia!


QUOTE(lilzz @ Dec 14 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]3367607[/snapback]
Mongol, here you go
The WS-10 or WS10 (Woshan 10), codename Taihang, is a turbofan engine, developed in the 1980s by the Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute, a design institute of the China Aviation Industry Corporation. it based on the USA CFM-56 engine, and can be considered a Chinese version of F110. After almost 20 years, it was finally installed by the People's Liberation Army Air Force in their Shenyang J-11 fighter aircraft, and possibly, Chengdu J-10.

The new fully FADEC WS-10A, reported to be an impressive 13,500kg thrust and 7.5 T/W ratio turbofan, could be in service in about 5 years. At the Zhuhai 2002 show a photo was released of a J-11 alleged to have been modified to test one WS-10A.[1]

Soon, the pipeline of WS-11, WS-12, WS-13 are going to rolling out like hotcakes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WS-10

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lilzz
post Dec 15 2007, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE(Mongol Warrior @ Dec 14 2007, 09:31 PM) [snapback]3368147[/snapback]
The gap between China and USA on Jets is at least 30 years!
J-10 = F-16's original type.
Plus, China rely themselves too much on Russia!


Says who? You're making up stuffs.. As of 2007, China buying very little much from Russia, everything is geared toward domestic production.
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baal
post Dec 17 2007, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE(lilzz @ Dec 14 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]3367607[/snapback]
Mongol, here you go
The WS-10 or WS10 (Woshan 10), codename Taihang, is a turbofan engine, developed in the 1980s by the Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute, a design institute of the China Aviation Industry Corporation. it based on the USA CFM-56 engine, and can be considered a Chinese version of F110. After almost 20 years, it was finally installed by the People's Liberation Army Air Force in their Shenyang J-11 fighter aircraft, and possibly, Chengdu J-10.

The new fully FADEC WS-10A, reported to be an impressive 13,500kg thrust and 7.5 T/W ratio turbofan, could be in service in about 5 years. At the Zhuhai 2002 show a photo was released of a J-11 alleged to have been modified to test one WS-10A.[1]

Soon, the pipeline of WS-11, WS-12, WS-13 are going to rolling out like hotcakes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WS-10


Fifth paragraph:

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/China_Eyes...o_Iran_999.html
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whynotmore
post Dec 17 2007, 05:07 AM
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QUOTE(Mongol Warrior @ Dec 14 2007, 10:31 PM) [snapback]3368147[/snapback]
The gap between China and USA on Jets is at least 30 years!
J-10 = F-16's original type.
Plus, China rely themselves too much on Russia!


My attitude on this subject is more mixed. China has covered a lot of ground in a short amount of time, in certain specific areas. In others, China continues to lag behind.

With regard to the capabilities of the J-10, I still have to consider the article published a year ago in Combat Aircraft to be the best, technical attempt to gauge the capabilities of this warplane. With regard to range and payload, the J-10 appears to have been designed from the onset to perform on a level equivalent to the latest F-16 Block 52+ fighters. It represents a truly monumental leap over previous J-6 and J-7 fighters.

On the other hand, by all accounts, Chinese jet engine technology lags far behind. This should not be a surprise to anyone. It's much easier and cost effective to develop your own airframe and avionics package, than it is to develop your own engine. This has been demonstrated by a number of successful fighter programs (JAS-39 Gripen, Mitsubishi F-2, Taiwan's Ching Kuo, Korea's T-50) that have been locally developed but relied on a foreign engine. The most authoritative accounts that I have seen to-date suggest that the WS-10A is being flight tested in the twin-engined J-11 - where a single engine failure is not necessarily fatal.

Even the Russians, with decades of experience, struggle to compete with US and European engine technology developed in the 1960s and 1970s (F100, F110, F404, F414 and RB199 engines). Even they cannot compete with what the West is producing today (F119, F135 and EF200).

So I am both impressed by the technology leap that the J-10 represents, and also aware of where Chinese technology falls short. Is the H-8 real? Perhaps, or perhaps not. But if it is, you will most certainly not find any pictures of it on the web.
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ReichsLeiter
post Dec 23 2007, 04:42 PM
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thats the american bomber.
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TylerDurden
post May 24 2008, 12:49 AM
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does this plane really exist? Rumors are swirlling... are there any info?

-----

This could be disinformation, Throw in some live footage of their more advanced fighters and a couple of CGI stills of a "stealth bomber" just to keep the US guessing. (and spending US money and resources on countermeasures for a non-existent threat while developing some other attack strategy). Classic Sun Tzu art of war.

This post has been edited by TylerDurden: May 24 2008, 12:53 AM
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xuanzang
post May 24 2008, 02:00 PM
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The so called chinese stealty H8 was a fake news.
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kennyboy
post May 25 2008, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE(xuanzang @ May 24 2008, 02:00 PM) [snapback]3716019[/snapback]
The so called chinese stealty H8 was a fake news.


i don't know......the chinese stealth fighter project XXJ is definitely real.


it seems logical to me that china would seriously attempt and invest in something like an advanced stealth bomber, which is at the heart of chinese military strategy of seizing the initiative and shock and awe, and an assassin mace.



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TylerDurden
post May 26 2008, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 25 2008, 06:47 PM) [snapback]3718188[/snapback]
i don't know......the chinese stealth fighter project XXJ is definitely real.
it seems logical to me that china would seriously attempt and invest in something like an advanced stealth bomber, which is at the heart of chinese military strategy of seizing the initiative and shock and awe, and an assassin mace.

-------------

There is definitely an H8 plane, but is it stealth or not we have no idea. China does not hide that there is a plane designated H-8 and even Jane's defense weekly reported on such aircraft. But the rest about the project is pure speculation.

The JXX Stealth fighter program is definitely real, some information has popped up about at least 3 models have been bourne out of the program, Shenyang's J12, Chendu's J13 and another aircraft company's design is designated as J14 (but this could also be a light plane in the works with Pakistan's PAK Industries). China's military industrial complex is secretive for all the good reasons. The ballistic missiles DF31, DF31A and JL2 are all officially have been brought into service and the DF41 was rumored to be canceled but pictures off the net including updated ones indicated otherwise. There are some real pictures of a JXX plane online, models of the plane have been released. Some sources indicate that China bought blue prints to the Mig MAPO fighter when Russia was struggling. The rest of course are a result of espionage. The plane is said to be on service by 2012. Let's see about that...

Another real project is the Stealth Missile ship, China unveiled it early this year and you can see it on You Tube, this is not model picture but a real photo with sailors and chinese flags closed up sailing in South China sea.

This post has been edited by TylerDurden: May 26 2008, 12:14 AM
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kennyboy
post May 26 2008, 01:41 AM
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QUOTE(TylerDurden @ May 26 2008, 12:09 AM) [snapback]3718731[/snapback]
-------------

There is definitely an H8 plane, but is it stealth or not we have no idea. China does not hide that there is a plane designated H-8 and even Jane's defense weekly reported on such aircraft. But the rest about the project is pure speculation.

The JXX Stealth fighter program is definitely real, some information has popped up about at least 3 models have been bourne out of the program, Shenyang's J12, Chendu's J13 and another aircraft company's design is designated as J14 (but this could also be a light plane in the works with Pakistan's PAK Industries). China's military industrial complex is secretive for all the good reasons. The ballistic missiles DF31, DF31A and JL2 are all officially have been brought into service and the DF41 was rumored to be canceled but pictures off the net including updated ones indicated otherwise. There are some real pictures of a JXX plane online, models of the plane have been released. Some sources indicate that China bought blue prints to the Mig MAPO fighter when Russia was struggling. The rest of course are a result of espionage. The plane is said to be on service by 2012. Let's see about that...

Another real project is the Stealth Missile ship, China unveiled it early this year and you can see it on You Tube, this is not model picture but a real photo with sailors and chinese flags closed up sailing in South China sea.


china has made incredible progress developing its weapon research and technology base and mass producing and quality control. don't forget that china has a developed computer/chip making/electronic industry.
some things china is at the forefront like ballistic missiles, different types of missiles, cruise missile, technology, space weaponry and radar/detection. fighters/subs/ships quality are quickly catching up fast while other things take a bit longer but much better.

i noticed china really does not buy anything at all from Russia these days......I think China is ahead of Russia in electronics/radar technology and quality production as well. The problem with Russian weapons is the quality production.......their stuff just breaks downs and there are problems with it and outdated electronics/radar technology.

Even India b!tches about Russian quality problems.

Russia excels in designing brute force/concept/design/theoretical/mathematical weapons but not necessarily the quality production/electronic part of it.

China computer/chip making/software industry is ahead of Russian.

china military industry as a whole is ok/decent/good for the most part, give it 10-15 years, that's when china will probably really start to catch up/on par with the U.S./western europe. also most chinese think it is their time, and a powerful military and the ability to kick a$$ and stick a middle finger to the imperial self righteous westerners who like to dominate and lecture everyone is a must as well.




This post has been edited by kennyboy: May 26 2008, 01:44 AM
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TylerDurden
post May 26 2008, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 26 2008, 02:41 AM) [snapback]3718937[/snapback]
china has made incredible progress developing its weapon research and technology base and mass producing and quality control. don't forget that china has a developed computer/chip making/electronic industry.
some things china is at the forefront like ballistic missiles, different types of missiles, cruise missile, technology, space weaponry and radar/detection. fighters/subs/ships quality are quickly catching up fast while other things take a bit longer but much better.

i noticed china really does not buy anything at all from Russia these days......I think China is ahead of Russia in electronics/radar technology and quality production as well. The problem with Russian weapons is the quality production.......their stuff just breaks downs and there are problems with it and outdated electronics/radar technology.

Even India b!tches about Russian quality problems.

Russia excels in designing brute force/concept/design/theoretical/mathematical weapons but not necessarily the quality production/electronic part of it.

China computer/chip making/software industry is ahead of Russian.

china military industry as a whole is ok/decent/good for the most part, give it 10-15 years, that's when china will probably really start to catch up/on par with the U.S./western europe. also most chinese think it is their time, and a powerful military and the ability to kick a$$ and stick a middle finger to the imperial self righteous westerners who like to dominate and lecture everyone is a must as well.

------------------

powerful military with the ability to kick a$$ and stick a middle finger to the imperial self righteous westerners who like to dominate and lecture everyone is a must as well.

---------------------

Agreed on this, the western imperialist have been ravaging the world like locusts. Funny to think of evil alien films, if such aliens do arrive, I believe most of the world's population will assist the aliens in finishing off the western colonialist first, garner and learn new technologies from them aliens while getting rid of the whities before turning the guns on these aliens to shoot them out of earth. I know I am probably one of the many that is willing to sell off Washington, London, Paris and Brussells to the Aliens in exchange for technology know how to help us get rid of them in the future.

This post has been edited by TylerDurden: May 26 2008, 11:19 AM
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Henry123
post May 26 2008, 02:02 PM
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QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 26 2008, 02:41 AM) [snapback]3718937[/snapback]
i noticed china really does not buy anything at all from Russia these days......

Which is false. Alot of Russian military hardware is purchase from Russia to China. Russia has also been helping China with building an aircraft carrier and upgrading ballistic missles to mobile launchers & improving accuracy. Also been helping China with improving their submarine technology.


QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 26 2008, 02:41 AM) [snapback]3718937[/snapback]
I think China is ahead of Russia in electronics/radar technology and quality production as well. ...

No China isnt. Russia still has a huge advances in those area. Although they did steal some of it through espionage.

QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 26 2008, 02:41 AM) [snapback]3718937[/snapback]
The problem with Russian weapons is the quality production.......their stuff just breaks downs and there are problems with it and outdated electronics/radar technology.

Which isnt true. Maybe some of the old stockpile stuff from the old Soviet era there was quality production problems. And some orgnizational problem during the 1990's but ever since Russia discovery of huge oil reserves their economy has shot upward significantly. Many of the old production problems have been resolved.

The truth is most of China's military upgrades has been done with Russia's help.
Russia has some very advances technology that the U.S. doesnt even have yet. They are still way ahead of the U.S in ramjet technology. Even their tanks are getting pretty impressive like with systems that can distroy a missle befor it even touches the tank (a form or active-reactive armour & anti personal devices). Russia also has a rocket propell torpedoe that rides in a bubble of air that is faster than anything NATO has. Russia is still ahead in certain antiship missiles like the upgraded sunburn missile. The Russians were the first who came up with cross vectoring for aircrafts. So was passive infrared radar and co-ordinated aircraft tracking and engagements (most of this technology was implemented in developing the Su-27). Latter the U.S. copied this from the Russians. Even with stealth the Russian scientist Pyotr Ufimtsev came up with calculations and physics formulas for it.

More than anything the NATO would like to see a split between Russia and China. India is still sitting on the fence on this but Russia has good ties with India. India software industry is significantly beigger than China's although China's hardward industry is bigger than India's -given it a balance.

This post has been edited by Henry123: May 26 2008, 02:16 PM
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kennyboy
post May 26 2008, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE(Henry123 @ May 26 2008, 02:02 PM) [snapback]3719707[/snapback]
Which is false. Alot of Russian military hardware is purchase from Russia to China. Russia has also been helping China with building an aircraft carrier and upgrading ballistic missles to mobile launchers & improving accuracy. Also been helping China with improving their submarine technology.


China is not purchasing whole systems from Russia at all these days. Russia has been complaining and concern out loud that their recent purchases and sales purchases from China have dropped almost to zero/near collaspe! It's in the news. Explain that. Russia makes good/decent stuff but china is not really buying much at all, which means that china can pretty much make it themselves or develop something better.


Russia isn't helping china build an aircraft carrier. to build an aircraft carrier you need to do that stuff yourself and your shipyards and workers build it. what china did was study the designs, but russians ain't going to help build at all.

China's newest submarines are more western looking than russian. the mobile launchers i give credit, but russia has better radar and electronics technology than China? i seriously doubt. I believe their S-400 SAMs are great. but can russia knock down a fast orbiting satellite 537 miles above the earth with a ground based missile with a direct kinectic hit? that's how advanced china's missile/radar technology has come......i'm not talking about the Russia's co-orbital take forever couple of days to a week approach and then have their antisatellite weapon spray and shoot the satellite. i'm talking about a direct launch, direct impact. China has able to take down a target the size of a refrigerator traveling at 7 meters per second at 537 miles above the earth. China's sensors/seekers were so advanced that it didn't have to go up higher altitude than the satellite and wait, it just destroyed the satellite. 537 miles is a record by the way.

China is also developing an anti-ship ballistic missile with manueverable terminal warhead DF-21. if made to work, these silver bullets dropping from the skies will do some real damage to U.S. aircraft carriers. the sheer speed of the warhead, MACH 6 is powerful enough to rip ships in half.

China's KJ-2000 AWACS is better than any early warning aircraft Russia has today.

China has created supercomputers, has chip making foundries, microprocessor, etc........where's Russia's?
The Su-27, Kilos are designed well from the outside the electronics inside SUCK that china does not even want Russian electronics and rather make their own and put it into these systems.


QUOTE
No China isnt. Russia still has a huge advances in those area. Although they did steal some of it through espionage.
Which isnt true. Maybe some of the old stockpile stuff from the old Soviet era there was quality production problems. And some orgnizational problem during the 1990's but ever since Russia discovery of huge oil reserves their economy has shot upward significantly. Many of the old production problems have been resolved.


the quality problems are recent. India is complaing about their stuff big time. Russia couldn't even deliver the Il-76 to china.....they have some problems.

yeah china has better quality production. A Russian Sukhoi representative was shocked that the Chinese built Su-27 Flankers(J-11A and J-11Bs) had a much better exterior touch and better radar/electronics too. Russia seems to not know that much about electronic countermeasures.......they were shocked at how much more china knows about electronics/rada than they do.

this is not a knock on russia. they excel at other things as well, i think china is starting to get better and starting to advance further.


QUOTE
The truth is most of China's military upgrades has been done with Russia's help.
Russia has some very advances technology that the U.S. doesnt even have yet. They are still way ahead of the U.S in ramjet technology. Even their tanks are getting pretty impressive like with systems that can distroy a missle befor it even touches the tank (a form or active-reactive armour & anti personal devices). Russia also has a rocket propell torpedoe that rides in a bubble of air that is faster than anything NATO has. Russia is still ahead in certain antiship missiles like the upgraded sunburn missile. The Russians were the first who came up with cross vectoring for aircrafts. So was passive infrared radar and co-ordinated aircraft tracking and engagements (most of this technology was implemented in developing the Su-27). Latter the U.S. copied this from the Russians. Even with stealth the Russian scientist Pyotr Ufimtsev came up with calculations and physics formulas for it.

More than anything the NATO would like to see a split between Russia and China. India is still sitting on the fence on this but Russia has good ties with India. India software industry is significantly beigger than China's although China's hardward industry is bigger than India's -given it a balance.



like i said, russia excels in concept/design weapons. the ideas and concepts are good and sound and makes sense, but i doubt a little about the electronic/quality/high tech part of it.

china has learned from russia and russian assistance, but recently seems to have gotten much better and starting to surpass Russia in certain areas. now saying that Russia is ahead of China in certain areas as well. I still have praise for Russia.

Russia has more money from oil sales, but China has an economy that is roaring with $1.3 trillion dollars reserves.

I don't know if Russia is ahead of U.S. in propulsion technology as the F-22 has the most powerful and most advanced jet engines in the world with supercruise and thrust vectoring. The U.S. is working on scramjet technology, china is starting work on scramjet technology. so what, even China has developed ramjet technologies.





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Henry123
post May 27 2008, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 27 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]3720755[/snapback]
China is not purchasing whole systems from Russia at all these days. Russia has been complaining and concern out loud that their recent purchases and sales purchases from China have dropped almost to zero/near collaspe! It's in the news. Explain that.

(Let me make it clear its nothing personal Kenny. Your not the enemy)

Its because of dispute certain copy right infringements. Like with the incident of the SU 27.
All the old contracts is still going ahead.
But yes I stand corrected you are correct the purchases are dwedling.
http://www.kommersant.com/p765731/r_529/Ch...ts_Contract_Il/

QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 27 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]3720755[/snapback]
Russia makes good/decent stuff but china is not really buying much at all, which means that china can pretty much make it themselves or develop something better.

Once again alot of it is in regards to some copy right disputes.
"Not buying much" is not a indication that China can make things themselves or better. Yes with certain things China has the technology for it. Not disputing that Kenny.

QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 27 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]3720755[/snapback]
Russia isn't helping china build an aircraft carrier. to build an aircraft carrier you need to do that stuff yourself and your shipyards and workers build it. what china did was study the designs, but russians ain't going to help build at all.

It wasnt complete support. It was some technical support and I believe Russian design engines.

Russia held back alot of technological information in regards to export of certain weopons. (Of course the U.S. and other nations do the same thing with alot of exported weopons systems to sell to other countries).


QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 27 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]3720755[/snapback]
China's newest submarines are more western looking than russian.

In terms of titanium welding & metalurgy Russia is still has a leading edge over U.S. submarines. Keep in mind Russia isnt building a whole lot of subs these days. Obiviously they are not preparing to fight a WW3.
In terms of other submarine technology U.S. has the edge.

QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 27 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]3720755[/snapback]
China has created supercomputers, has chip making foundries, microprocessor, etc........where's Russia's?
The Su-27, Kilos are designed well from the outside the electronics inside SUCK that china does not even want Russian electronics and rather make their own and put it into these systems.
the quality problems are recent. India is complaing about their stuff big time. Russia couldn't even deliver the Il-76 to china.....they have some problems.

Russia already has supercomputers, chip making fundries and microprocessors (China isnt tehn only country that has it). But my main point os Russia (like other nations) are relunctant to export sensitive military technology. What Russia send for export are chopped down versions. They all do that. Alot of military secrets are held back and are use mainly for home defense.

QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 27 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]3720755[/snapback]
... yeah china has better quality production. A Russian Sukhoi representative was shocked that the Chinese built Su-27 Flankers(J-11A and J-11Bs) had a much better exterior touch and better radar/electronics too. Russia seems to not know that much about electronic countermeasures.......they were shocked at how much more china knows about electronics/rada than they do.

Anyone could add improvement touches to nearly any military hardware (Israelis do it all the time). It does not necessarily mean they are innovators in that technology. Just like Japan takes American inventions and improve upon them but they dont neccesarily invent anything new and revolutionary in that field. Keep in mind SU-27 is not the latestest innovation in aircraft. Although it was an quite achievement for its time.
Although I would say China is producing more scientists than Russia can keep up with. Alot of Western trained scientist going to China helps as well.

QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 27 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]3720755[/snapback]
I don't know if Russia is ahead of U.S. in propulsion technology as the F-22 has the most powerful and most advanced jet engines in the world with supercruise and thrust vectoring. The U.S. is working on scramjet technology, china is starting work on scramjet technology. so what, even China has developed ramjet technologies.

Only in ramjet propulsion Russia is ahead. With other propulsion technology I believe the U.S. is ahead.
This does not mean the U.S. dont have ramjets. Its does not mean China doesnt have ranject or India doesnt have ramject etc. (My point. Just because China has ramjet technology doesnt mean they are ahead of the U.S/Russia. Anymore than have jet planes makes China ahead of the U.S. in aircraft designs .)

Thrust vectoring was invented by the Russians. The U.S. took that technology from them. I'm not sure who came up with supercruise though.

QUOTE(kennyboy @ May 27 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]3720755[/snapback]
Russia has more money from oil sales, but China has an economy that is roaring with $1.3 trillion dollars reserves.

The reason I brought up Russia with oil is that theres a myth going around that Russia hasnt made any advances since the collapse of the USSR. Alot of the Russian economic recovery has been due to the oil discoveries.



This post has been edited by Henry123: Jun 4 2008, 07:31 PM
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